Capitalism is fucking stupid

>Hurdurr if u no like capitalism u commie XDDDD

Fucking Westerners and their bipolar politics.

Go on then. Tell us what you think we should do.

>capitalism is stupid because garbage exists
Why are teenagers so angry and retarded at non problems?

Oh I dunno, don't give private capital absolute fucking freedom? That's not communism. Lord knows why wh*toids- especially Americans- think corporations are sinless institutions that can do no wrong unlike ebil gubmint.

>Hurdurr if you can't find alternatives you can't critique the system!

>what do you suggest as an alternative?

A model of market socialism in which firms owned by their employees and structured on workers' self-management compete with each other in open and free market.

yes, it is

>hurr no alternative
Lange Model you brainlet.

>capitalism

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bruh

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Socialism With a Human Face
;)))

Just because it hasn’t been implemented doesn’t mean that it wouldn’t work

>only capitalism produces waste

That's right. Criticize just for the sake of criticizing is what useless people do, without even giving a hint to a productive idea.

Thank you.

We need to use less plastic. Really only meat and "wet" products need to be wrapped up in plastic.

And what happened to the good old paper bag?

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t. latin american
>market socialism
>when things that appear spontaneously like entrepeneurship are drowned in their crib by things that are enforced rigidly like socialist commandments

So you didn't get the sarcasm

Actually the glut of disposable goods is a very big problem, user: one that is ruining large sections of our oceans.

>Oh I dunno, don't give private capital absolute fucking freedom?
>That's not communism.
Abolishing private property and capital is the literal definition of Communism.

>Lord knows why wh*toids- especially Americans- think corporations are sinless institutions that can do no wrong unlike ebil gubmint.
The definition of corporation is "a company or group of people authorized to act as a single entity (legally a person) and recognized as such in law." Your idea of "not giving private capital absolute fucking freedom" is what creates Corporations, you fucking retard.

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Well, OP implied that capitalism is to blame for waste and he'd be partially right as capitalism doesnt exactly help, (but as you said, every society creates waste) but capitalists go wherever the money is so if the consumer buy goods with less plastic all over it, it would alleviate the problem.

It's really a consumer issue in sense.

I'm only having brainfarts here so dont take anything I say too seriously.

If there's competition it's not socialism and still a race to the bottom.

central planning is fucking stupid

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>market socialism
>compete with each other in open and free market.

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That’s the same as an employee stock option you fucktard

He didn't say to abolish private property and capital you mong.

Don't pull basic google definitions for something as convoluted as the definition of a corporation across modern countries you mong.

Even in corporate shitholes like America corporations STILL don't have all the legal rights as a person so calling it (legally a person) is a terrible intepretation of their unique status you mong.

No one is saying it's perfect, but it's the foundation for our current world. The problem is the increase in human population and slow adoption of clean energy, would still have the problem of distribution of wealth or the acceptance of it...

>Abolishing private property and capital is the literal definition of Communism.
Did i fucking say this? If anything the only thing you can accuse me is regulation. Which is- AGAIN- not necessarily communist.

Typical fucking Amerinigger with his bipolar politics.

What about the trees?
My God man,what’s wrong with you?

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so what other economic system appart from communism aims for abolishing private property and abolishing capital as well?

This is a complete meme idea that everyone needs to stop spouting
slate.com/articles/health_and_science/the_green_lantern/2011/02/go_west_garbage_can.html

theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/04/ocean-garbage-marine-debris/476481/

telegraph.co.uk/science/2016/10/05/great-pacific-garbage-patch-is-a-myth-warn-experts-as-survey-sho/

youtube.com/watch?v=GSiGLc6fsl0

To a degree yes but so are people.

>He didn't say to abolish private property and capital you mong.
That's what you're doing when you have the state regulate it, brainlet.

>Don't pull basic google definitions for something as convoluted as the definition of a corporation across modern countries you mong.
If you're idea can't make it past basic definitions without being wrong then you should seriously reconsider it.

>Even in corporate shitholes like America corporations STILL don't have all the legal rights as a person so calling it (legally a person) is a terrible intepretation of their unique status you mong.
They do, and legal rights is what separates a corporation from a business, you fucking retard.

>Did i fucking say this? If anything the only thing you can accuse me is regulation.
When you regulate capital with the state, it is no longer private capital.

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>posts 5 year old articles from magazines notorious for their incorrect scientific articles, a tabloid, and a youtube video
Fuck off with your bullshit.

pastebin.com/72u7B2NK

Inb4 somehow insinuating this is jewish propaganda or you ignore it because its not in infographic format

one of those articles is specifically about fear mongering scientific articles that are based on dick user. Keep wasting your life fear mongering for a non existing problem though.

>You abolish property and capital when the state regulates commerce/production
This might be the dumbest thing I've read all week.

>They do
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood
They do not you mong.

>preventing companies from creating monopoly is the same thing as nationalising every private institution

Sorry it wasn't in infographic format so you could easily understand it. At least you read one article long enough to strawman it so we're making progress.

You are projecting and are angry because this non problem is apparently important to you and you dont want to admit to being an idiot and wasting so much time and energy on it. No user, theres no island made of garbage, we arent running out of places to put our garbage, and garbage wasnt magically invented with the free market.

>there's no island made of garbage
>we're not running out of places to put our garbage
>garbage wasn't magically invented with the free market
I nor the articles I posted claimed any of that and frankly it is embarrassing if you believe that people discussing the plastic pollution in the ocean are talking about islands of garbage. Again, had you read anything other than a tabloid and outdated and shoddy journalism for any reason other than to confirm your beliefs, then you would understand that. If you won't read the proof I've posted then why are you continuing to argue because it's no longer about trying to determine the truth.

I dont know, I am not a smart man. I like trees.

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Well, you probably don't produce as much waste when you're starving.

Can someone post Chernobyl or abandoned ussr launch stations

The definition of regulate is "to control or supervise by means of rules and regulations." Regulating capital means that you are removing control from the private individual and handing it to the state.

>They do not you mong.
They do, the only rights that they do not have are ones that can't be granted collectively. Again I'm going to repeat this too you like I am talking to a 5 year old (because you have the mental capacity of one): Legal rights are what separates a corporation from a business.

>preventing companies from creating monopoly is the same thing as nationalising every private institution
Regulations is what allows businesses/corporations to become monopolies in the first place. I love the irony in that lefties create monopolies via government regulation, proceed to bitch monopolies fucking everyone over, proceed to blame capitalism for the failed government intervention they wanted and then finally start shilling for communism. Like clockwork.

Keep posting, I love arguing with retards who unironically think Marx had good ideas.

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I got you, senpai.
>InB4 not real Communism.

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>Regulating capital means that you are removing control from the private individual and handing it to the state
And where in there does that say that is abolishing private property and capital. Also where in your google definition does it state this is a binary system rather than a spectrum? I'll save you some time here and tell you it doesn't state that you mong.

Also you forgot to quote this user
you mong.

>They do have all the legal rights of a person except these rights that people have that they don't
I'm glad you understand your ignorance. If you read that link I posted it will further define how corporations are a unique legal entity and not legally the same as an individual. That has LONG since been clarified by the courts to not be literal you mong.

>where in your google definition does it state this is a binary system rather than a spectrum?
Fuck off back to leftypol. It doesn't work with finance, industry,or gender.

>That's what you're doing when you have the state regulate it, brainlet.

Every single capitalist state regulates private property and capital. Is the US a communist country?

The Soviet Union never claimed that it is a communist society

Command economy is the only alternative to capitalism

And the nazis never claimed they were doing crimes against humanity. Your point?

Falangism is the only way

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A communist society is by definition stateless, moneyless and classless. The USSR was a state that had money and (arguably) classes, which means it was not communist.

How could you possibly have a classless and moneyless society without a state enforcing a ban on those things, thats nonsense

B but that's what the prophet said!

Being against capitalism is like being anti-vaccine
It blows my mind that some people just refuse to look at evidence and believe factually untrue things because of some dumb romanticism

In the section of Grundrisse called “The Fragment on Machines”, Marx says that state, money and classes will probably disappear when we reach post-scarcity thanks to automation. Have actually ever read anything written by Marx?

Oh, some guy said it once? You got me

There is no evidence which suggests that a labour-managed market economy is not an efficient alternative to capitalism.

>Rubbish has to go somewhere
woaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

You didn’t answer my question

humans only had refuse after we decided to allow the free investment of money and resources among the people?

obligatory

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>labour-managed
What does this even mean?

An economy based on worker cooperatives

You cannot have a society without a state. The state is simply the mechanism by which society makes and enforces decisions.

Fucking cavemen had a state.

Capitalism has been objectively the most successful system ever implemented by humanity.
>inb4 t-that wasn't REAL communism, my own incredibly specific form of communism would definitely work instead

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Where do laborers get the capital to start new businesses?

Why would I read Marx? Its like reading a early modern medical book, full of objectively wrong things with the only value being interest in how fucking wrong people in the past were or just general curiosity in how bad ideas form

I mean how does that even work? How would you even start a business is you cannot even own it?

Global estimates of poverty and other such factors are highly unreliable and they tend to underestimate the severity of our problems due to the fact that it is more difficult to collect such statistics in poor regions: medium.com/@UnlearningEcon/seeing-like-a-neoliberal-part-1-blinded-by-the-data-a134a7026d87

>inb4 t-that wasn't REAL communism

It wasn’t, a communist society can’t have money and the state.

Whatever you say, philistine

by that definition a communist society is literally impossible

No, seriously, why would I possibly be interested Marx from anything besides a historical perspective?

It is certainly impossible as long as scarcity exists, Marx knew this very well

Yes, reading one of the most influential thinkers in history is just a waste of time, unlike, for example, posting on Veeky Forums.

By pretty much any measure anywhere, the world is better off than ever before in the age of capitalism. Nothing correlates so strongly with national prosperity as does economic freedom and capitalism.
Just look at places like Singapore compared to Cambodia, or Estonia compared to Belarus after the fall of communism.
You can basically go on a state by state basis on the formerly communist eastern European countries and their modern prosperity is very closely tied to how much they embraced economic freedom

>stateless society
Who makes decisions then? Who enforces them?

In what way is this different from the state?

>capitalism sucks
>Every alternative that has ever been tried has sucked more
So what are we supposed to do?

Also blaming capitalism for pollution is retarded considering the Soviet Union and China polluted just as much if not more than their capitalist rivals. Industrialization and population growth is not purely capitalistic nor is pollution caused by excessive amounts of private property being owned bya fee individuals

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>one of the most influential thinkers in history is just a waste of time
Thats a bit of a stretch. He was influential to a fad cult of the 1900s, but his influence is basically dead now. He is interesting as a historical figure, but very bad reading if you are looking for content or knowledge on how to run a society successfully.
He is one of literally thousands of early modern and medieval thinkers that turned out to be silly and wrong and are incredibly outdated in a modern context

>It wasn’t, a communist society can’t have money and the state
No, they were just Marxist Leninist socieites working towards a utopian goal that cost millions of lives.

That's so much better.

>By pretty much any measure anywhere, the world is better off than ever before in the age of capitalism

Marx never denied this.

>Nothing correlates so strongly with national prosperity as does economic freedom and capitalism.

Eh, the most prosperous countries in the world are arguably the Nordic ones.

>Just look at places like Singapore compared to Cambodia

Singapore is more socialist than Cambodia.

>You can basically go on a state by state basis on the formerly communist eastern European countries and their modern prosperity is very closely tied to how much they embraced economic freedom

Correlation doesn’t mean causation and “economic freedom” is a rather vague term.

Capitalism cost millions of lives as well

>besides a historical perspective?
You shouldn't, his economic theories are jokes but understanding Marx and people's reactions to him are very important in political sciences as well.

Yes because according to you the existence of private property is capitalism, and seeing as how most of history has had private property then all of the deaths occurred under these systems is due to capitalism.

Every war was the fault of capitalism, every outbreak of disease was the fault of capitalism, every natural disasters, etc.

>Marx never denied this.
Why are you so fixated on what Marx said?
>Eh, the most prosperous countries in the world are arguably the Nordic ones.
They are fairly prosperous, also fairly free despite their public perception amongst english speakers as being more socialistic
>Singapore is more socialist than Cambodia
By what possibly metric?
>Correlation doesn’t mean causation
No, but evidence is important, and time and again when you compare countries with otherwise similar circumstances, the one that chooses economic and political freedom ends up better off. Probably the best example is South Korea aligning with American Capitalism while the North aligned with Marx

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>the most prosperous countries in the world are arguably the Nordic ones.
Who are not socialist countries, they are welfare capitalist and Finland was a total shithole under it's influence from the So it Union

Private property per se is not capitalism, but private ownership of the means of production combined with wage labour is capitalism.

In the 20th century alone, capitalist countries have killed tens of millions of people.

Bullshit, Capitalism has been a huge boon on the human populations and individual longevity. Capitalism has both lead to huge increases in life through the technology and science it has wrought, and also a dramatic decrease in the portions of the population dying from government interference in the economy, and even more dramatically from a decrease of individuals killed by the state. Capitalism created the Pax Americana, never before has the rate of death from war and armed conflict been so low as the capitalist era

>Every single thing that happens is capitalism

I suppose Communist countries don't have waste because you'd need to actually produce enough things to throw them away.