What if Europeans never invaded Africa?

What if Europeans never invaded Africa?

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en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_West_Africa
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nsibidi
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeology_of_Igbo-Ukwu
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashanti_Empire
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They never did.

Was the case until the late 19th century
Yet all whiteys found when they arrived in 1880 were neolithic-tier hunter-gatherer villages among wilderness
No Wakanda in sight

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It wouldn't look like that, if anything they would stay on their stage of being primtive compared to the civilizations that rowed in. And if not the Europeans then the Arabs would probably swallow the continent if they were aware of the resources. The Arabs would remain in the black slave trade as they had been for ages, so instead of African tribes selling their own people or people of their enemy tribe to white people they would be selling them to the Arabs.

would have still ended up as a bunch of tribes murdering eachother with western weapons they got in exchange for their natural resources
only now they're even more isolated from eachother because they don't even speak the same language

DAS RITE

It would've been a continent filled with shitholes instead of a continent filled with shitholes with arbitrarily drawn borders

Look at Ethiopia.

>Yet all whiteys found when they arrived in 1880 were neolithic-tier hunter-gatherer villages among wilderness

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look at botswana

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Was colonised by the British though.

Care to refute the statement with an actual argument?

I really think this is the real root of racism. Its nothing more than a technologically advanced society coming across a stoneage tier society plus one that looks nothing like them and more like apes.

Define Africa, as Europeans have been fighting in Africa (the continent) since ships set sail in the mediteranium

>morroco and egypt were hunter-gatherer societies.

You know we're talking about Sub-Saharan Africa, Tyrone
No need to try and englobate araps with you to feel better

dumb statements dont deserve anything other than derision, you brainlet cuck

What’s the deal with calling every African polity larger than Connecticut an empire?

Homo Sapiens' population has been increasing exponentially for centuries, user. Comparing ancient empires to contemporary cities doesn't make much sense.

I don't suppose Sumeria would have been terrible impressive compared to modern Swindon, but I don't think that is a point anyone would ever sensibly make.

Because it they were

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The

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They would still be niggers with no technology and tribes.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_West_Africa

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>gained independence in 1966
WAKANDA IS REAL!

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_West_Africa

Do some actual research

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Head's of Ife

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Pyramids everywhere

It would have no electricity, cities, or any infrastructure. I guess this is a good thing if you're into being one with nature.

Africa did have cities

Also he said no invasion not no contact

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the only ones in that picture that could even be called an empire are in the north. if you call the ones in the south empires then the Gauls in France during antiquity would also be considered an empire.

Mali and Songhai were bigger than the land mass of Western Europe

>the only ones in that picture that could even be called an empire are in the north.
Learn English retard.

they would have had no rail roads, but that's about it.
they would have produced their own society.
they would have competed for land and attacked each other.

Hard question because you can hardly imagine noone to invade or make way with force eventually.
Its like with siberians or papuans, they were destined to get fucked. Well anyhow, thw western africans had a bunch of functioning states already with a material culture that could be compared to what was found at the time in indonesia and a spiritual culture that on its own held society together in one form or another but wasnt really stimulated by leisure, contact and wealth to bring forth notable schools of thought.
The spaniards and portugeese traded with them though and the congo became catholic-indigenous religions would have to compete with that foundation eventually which might have sparked distinct african contemplations to be set in ink.
After many wars and continued trade west africa might be a christian-syncretist cluster of indonesia like states with a dynamic culture that tries to assert and orientate itself in the face of the old powers. Maybe the non organised congo would be subjugated as a giant slavepit either by arabs or said westafricans.
The sahel stays a bunch of backwards caliphates with some nonislamic traditions which will get contested like it it happened in chechnya when modernity and literacy got brought in by european contact while south africa will stay a tribal shithole up for grabs for whoever can pull it off. If europeans and arabs magically keep their hands to themselves madagascar would probably dominate there and make use of the land with the help of oversea powers.
East africa wouldnt be much different then today, maybe a few more sucess stories like rwanda, maybe a bunch of somalias were the clans and tribes duke it out with guns until someone has killed enough to start nationbuilding at a basic level.

>Yet all whiteys found when they arrived in 1880 were neolithic-tier hunter-gatherer villages among wilderness
But that's literally not true.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_West_Africa

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It’s certainly true of everything south of Ethiopia in the entire Congo, and even in West Africa their culture and architecture was strongly based in what the Arabs brought in

The also had some of their own

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I get the feeling that you know nothing about society in west Africa and just assume that because they are Muslims they have a culture identical to Arabs

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Yep nothing but stone age Hunter gatherers

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Westafrica is basically the heartpiece of civilisation south of the sahara, while some contact with arabs was there the more northern you went, it was rudimentary at best and the coastal pagan kingdoms around modern (southern) nigeria were pretty much culturally isolated. So self agency concerning their feats in architecture is not unlikely.

Putting aside the blatantly native cultural elements, that doesn't invalidate anything.

West Euros were strongly influenced by Mediterrean and the Near East. The Greeks were strongly influenced by Near East. Their alphabet came from Lebanon and the famous sculptures came from Egypt.

Cultural exchange and influence is the norm but when blacks do it, you guys splerg out. The fact is that they developed at about the rate you'd expect given the location. Groups like the Yoruba actually created impressively developed cultures and institutions given their isolation. They even developed their own ideographic script whilst in isolation from Eurasia which is more than many groups can say.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nsibidi

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeology_of_Igbo-Ukwu

>Look at this piece of art. How can you call them stone aged?

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>Their alphabet came from Lebanon
Which came from Proto-Sinaitic (the Sinai peninsula) which comes from egyptian hieroglyphs.

> because they are muslim
They were not, state sanctioned human sacrifiece by strangling in orser to gain the protection of ancestral kings happened.
Also the Adante are notable as the second cultural high achievers besides the benin kindom.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashanti_Empire

*asante

You are aware that this cave painting is from france?

That's not even from Africa and from 30,000 years ago so try again

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They were Muslims Sankore was an islamic University

listverse.com/2016/12/20/10-horrors-of-aztec-ritual-human-sacrifice/

Is that ife or nok art?
Iron or terra cotta?
Ive read about the noks and they seem very notable as they produced high quality art starting around 500bc to 200bc, but then vanished before anyone got into contact with them leaving the region in a less civilised state for some hundred of years again.

...no shit... That's my point.
You can't use art to prove a culture isn't primitive. The Chauvet Cave are Old Stone Age and absolutely beautiful. While amazing what our primitive ancestors did, they were still primitive and stone age.
Do you know what green text is?

So did the Aztecs Mayans Incas Hindus and many other cultures

This was Ife

But this was litteraly metal art work

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It wasn't invaded though, it was annexed on friendly terms.

Sankore is in Mali and Mali is in the muslim periphery in the north inheriting parts of its culture from contact with the mediterran people. The southwestern Ivory coast however was staunchly animist and is in parts to this day.

And from the Late Middle Ages/Renaissance.
And, while nice, not really that amazing.

That's still part of west africa Mali and Songhai stretched all the way to Nigeria

You dont have to be so defensive.
Human sacrifiece simply means that this was a rather untouched archaic kind of polytheism, uncolonised and all compassing in society and not some islamo-pagan hybrid culture were the (for abrahamics) alien morale had been pushed into minor folk beliefs.

The heads were dated before that to around the 11th to 13th century

If you want for others to understand you, you have to formulate your point precise enough so that misunderstandings are kept to a minimum. If you just post a picture and a short text, you shouldn't get angry that people don't interprete your post as you wanted them to. Other people only have so much information as you give them.

>11th to 13th century
...Late Middle Ages/Renaissance.

Tbh most of asia also sculpted at this level or barely above it.

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It's just that there's this guy who always bringing up saying that africans were evil because of it or that the some how with a much smaller population sacrificed more than the Aztecs

They also carved out of Ivory

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Reductio ad absurdum is a perfectly fine way to make a point.
Okay, right. Not that impressive.
I'm not trying to make some race argument. I'm saying it's objectively false to not describe africa in this period as primitive. This doesn't mean we shouldn't study them, this doesn't mean that they were living like chimps.
All I'm saying is that direct contact with different people is a good way to fuel industry.

Nigeria is a modern colonial chimera with the north and south not having all too much in common and the songhai never got to the coastal parts of nigeria were the polytheist states settled afaik. They wouldnt have stayed polytheist until european contact after all, if the songhai or other islamic africans would have ever gained a lasting foothold there.
I might have mentioned Nigeria before as a very rough but not exact geographical indicator, but hope this is rectified now.

>13th renaissance
Begone mutt

Well there was islamic Nigeria with the hausa and Fulani then there's pagan Nigeria with the Yoruba and igbo

Nigeria is like if you fused a chick a donkey and monkey together an horrific monstrosity and or cluster fuck

Wew ok. Dont know him.

Fair enough, but what is primitive needs to be held in relation to the time period and region-sometimes people juggle with dates and regions in order to achieve the highest possible contrast.
Western africa when the portuguese first found it wasnt even primitve if compared to most other regions on earth which were as isolated as them (such as siberia or the deep south of south east asia/Polynesia).
Western africa when the europeans had industrialised and asia was ruled by gunpowder empires however had fallen behind and was thus perceived as wild and untamed.
Congo basin and south africa are a different story again and the memes are mostly true.

Well southern Africa had the Zimbabwe dry Mason's who had trade as far as China and Indonesia but white colonist tried to claim Arabs or whites built the Zimbabwe enclosures

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These are pretty neat

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There's over 200 of them stretching from Zimbabwe to bostwana like khami City and others

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There's also the hill complex

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The thing about this recurring Veeky Forums argument is that what always happens is this:
>West African civilisation is brought up
>Someone calls them cavemen, exaggeratedly
>Someone else says that this person is purely ignorant
>shitflinging ensues
I've read a little on these civilisations, not a ton, but people clearly have a political interest in overplaying their achievements and it would be dishonest to say they were particularly advanced, either morally or materially, at least from the contemporary Western perspective. A lot of them made fucktons of their money off of the gold trade that they didn't seem to have a clear mechanism to exploit production for. There was a feudal kind of system as well, but the politics were not always stable and the empire's shape shifted a lot. It was not written about favourably by the Arabs who gave them their record-keeping elements (much like how Christianity did this for northern Europeans). To the original point, this civilisation was not very visible by the time the Europeans showed up.

But I don't want to make it sound like I think these people were mud-slingers or something silly, I just don't like that we feel like overplaying what they did. They clearly made beautiful art and brought in great riches. At certain times, sometimes for extended periods, someone managed to politically unite very sizable chunks of the agricultural output. They made buildings that were fairly impressive and well suited to their environment. There is, however, a reason that foreign writers from Arabia wrote negative things about their advancement, and why they were easily dominated by a foreign power once someone used technology to get over the harshness of the terrain.

Benin city impressed even European visitors

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wakanda shit is this

Arabia aslo wrote many positive things in battuta stated that the kings of Mali were fair and just and it's people were devout Muslims

And Ghana empire's capital was describe as
According to al-Bakri, the major part of the city was called El-Ghaba and was the residence of the king. It was protected by a stone wall and functioned as the royal and spiritual capital of the Empire. It contained a sacred grove of trees used for Sonink religious rites in which priests lived. It also contained the king's palace, the grandest structure in the city, surrounded by other "domed buildings". There was also one mosque for visiting Muslim officials.[20] (El-Ghaba, coincidentally or not, means "The Forest" in Arabic.)

He sits in audience or to hear grievances against officials in a domed pavilion around which stand ten horses covered with gold-embroidered materials. Behind the king stand ten pages holding shields and swords decorated with gold, and on his right are the sons of the kings of his country wearing splendid garments and their hair plaited with gold. The governor of the city sits on the ground before the king and around him are ministers seated likewise. At the door of the pavilion are dogs of excellent pedigree that hardly ever leave the place where the king is, guarding him. Around their necks they wear collars of gold and silver studded with a number of balls of the same metals.[20]

People often say "Colonialism is the reason there's not enough electricity in Africa". But isn't colonialism the reason there's any electricity in Africa to begin with?

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Comment not relevant to discussion tbqh.

Exactly right

And? It was administrated and developed by the British.

West African armies made use of armored Calvary

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