What went wrong with Catalonia? Why couldnt it sustain itself?
What went wrong with Catalonia? Why couldnt it sustain itself?
Jace White
Camden White
well, leftist groups murdering each other didn't help. even George Orwell was nearly purged by a USSR-backed militia.
Cameron Nguyen
retards couldn't stop larping
Landon Torres
Turns out having an egalitarian military hierarchy is not very effective in an actual war.
Andrew Cruz
Spanish are really lazy.
Gabriel Parker
They did sustain themselves, production output even increased and it was by definition a working Anarcho Communist collective.
What didn't work was their military hierarchy,communicating and fighting a war with other non Anarchist leftist groups a few skirmishes even happened and the USSR's opposition to the Anarchists. Also the fact the Nationalists had better equipment,air and naval superiority for most of the war,training,armored vehicles,industrial support and were under control of Franco rather then a bunch of different groups who were sometimes against each-other
Andrew Cruz
So, if there were no issues with sectarianism or wartime circumstances, theoretically an Anarcho-Communist society could actually function and reach "true marxism TM"?
Joseph Barnes
Yep. They stunk at war though.
Jack Moore
>They did sustain themselves, production output even increased
nope, from "The Spanish Revolution" by Stanley Payne
>Basic wage increases in Catalan industry during the second half of 1936... probably came closer to 30 to 35 percent, though at least half the increased purchasing power was eliminated by inflation. (p256)
>It might roughly be hypothesized that the wartime unemployment rate [in Catalonia] ranged from 10 to 15 percent, with higher proportions in certain industries such as textiles, construction, and shipping. (p258)
>Wartime shortages, the loss of markets, and lack of raw materials, together with the disruptive effect of the collectivizations and worker control, made it impossible for Catalan industry to regain prewar levels of output. Production declined steadily. (p256-257)
obviously these are wartime statistics, but they're not good at any rate.
Brandon Bailey
>Basic wage increases in Catalan industry during the second half of 1936... probably came closer to 30 to 35 percent, though at least half the increased purchasing power was eliminated by inflation
Anarchists are against working as much, and Communes even stopped using money and refused to accept it as payment preferring labor vouches, they also didn't produce for excess goods only for use.
>It might roughly be hypothesized that the wartime unemployment rate [in Catalonia] ranged from 10 to 15 percent, with higher proportions in certain industries such as textiles, construction, and shipping. (p258)
After the initial disruption, the unions soon began an overall reorganization of all trades, closing down hundreds of smaller plants and focusing on those few better equipped ones, improving working conditions. In the region of Catalonia, more than seventy foundries were closed down, and production concentrated around twenty four larger foundries. The CNT argued that the smaller plants were less efficient and secure. In Barcelona, 905 smaller beauty shops and barbershops were closed down, their equipment and workers being focused on 212 larger shops.
p 58 Bolloten, Burnett (1991). The Spanish Civil War: revolution and counterrevolution
Although there were early issues with production in certain instances industrial productivity doubled almost everywhere across the country, with agricultural yields increased "30-50%. Workers were much more motivated to work for the Communes and safety for workers was improved and working hours shrunk considerably.
libcom.org
p81-84
Xavier Gutierrez
>libcom.org
>emma goldman, jewish anarchist
>cites another jewish anarchist for her claims of increased production
Logan Ramirez
>preferred labour vouchers over money
So they preferred their version of money over another version of money?
Sorry I'm not too deeply informed in anarcho-communistic ideas but that just sounds retarded.
Nathan Wright
A person who was an Anarchist and lived in an Anarchist Commune and later wrote reports on their personal first hand experiences and interviews with other anarchists for almost a year would be used as a source for a society they lived in. Who knew?
Stanley Payne
>He states that Hitlerian National Socialism more nearly paralleled Russian communism than has any other non-communist system
Ultimate brainlet opinion, my eyes hurt from reading this. Just take a look at Italy and Germany or the fascists in several other countries.
> His position regarding the Spanish Civil War has been that of shedding light on the conflict's origin and addressing its related myths and as a result by some historians he is considered a revisionist
>Revisionism is a term which emerged in the late 1990s and is applied to a group of historiographic theories related to the recent history of Spain. They are supposedly held together by posing a challenge to what is presented as a generally accepted, orthodox view on the history of the Second Republic and the Civil War.
>those dubbed revisionists are branded conservatives or post-Francoists
>So they preferred their version of money over another version of money?
Labor vouches are not money because they cannot be traded or exchanged to others, currency would imply it's capable of moving from person to person ie buying goods and selling goods.
Jace Thomas
Ahh, I thought you could trade your vouchers with others. Thanks for the clarification.
Sebastian Collins
>personally experiencing industrial productivity increases
>meant to take commie-jew journals as sources worth anything more than toilet paper
Jayden Diaz
>goldman
opinion discarded
Nathan Robinson
Hello /pol/
Samuel Gonzalez
Jesus fuck shut up /pol/ this is actually interesting
Wyatt Brooks
Luftwaffe bombing, Italian mercenaries.
Andrew Thompson
¡No pasarán!
Decían los marxistas.
¡No pasarán!
Gritaban por las calles.
¡No pasarán!,
Se oía a todas horas por plazas y plazuelas
Con voces miserables.
¡No pasarán!
Matthew Price
Those were anarchists, not marxists...
Jordan Richardson
>anarcho
Except for the slave labour and direct control by CNT.
Joseph Barnes
They were retarded commies
Samuel Ross
Spanish aren’t white
Cooper Bennett
the commies stabbed them in the back
Nathan Jackson
What slave labour?
Dylan Rodriguez
They had literal concentration camps.
Juan Phillips
[citation needed]
Joseph Williams
They were the Commies, I think you mean commies stabbed other commies in the back.
Kind of happens during a war dude, Anarchists get shit on cause they happen to be too utopian and ideologically dedicated to do things which actually help a lot of the time. This is the point where doing it makes sense since you can't just go form a voluntary peaceful commune and be neutral when Franco is just going to come up there and genocide you. And who says Anarchists can't have governments? Anarchists aren't opposed to voluntary government.
Luke Wilson
>even George Orwell was nearly purged by a USSR-backed militia.
The same mentality of those militia can be found today.
"If you don't agree with the collective hivemind of progressives, then you're a fascist!"
"If you're not willing to date a transgender girl/boy, then you're a bigot!"
"If you didn't vote for Hillary, then you're a misogynist!"
"If you like guns, then you're a white supremacist!"
Bitch. I love traps, gays, women, and guns. Far left and far right ideologies are just toxic cancer.
Nathaniel Young
>"If you like guns, then you're a white supremacist!"
no one says this lol
Luis Kelly
Yes some people do. I get it all the time even though I'm Asian.
Dominic Wilson
Noah Peterson
This
No, but TRUE COMMUNISM™. Marxism is statist, its goal is communist and stateless.
No, it's totalitarian and authoritarian ideologies that are toxic cancer
Justin Rodriguez
>fat cunt
Thomas Carter
Communists are incompitant
Ian Nguyen
This is evidence but far from sufficient, there are many alternate explanations as to why "in certain instances industrial productivity doubled" or "agricultural yields increased "30-50%". Emma Goldman does nothing but sing praises about the anarchists, it is not a fully fleshed out study with academic rigor that expects to be picked apart by critics.
>Labor vouches are not money because they cannot be traded or exchanged to others
Near where I live people trade food stamps like baseball cards.
Connor Sanchez
because it was under attack from two different armies for its entire existence and had a predominantly civilian army. its production at the time was up to or above the standard of the time.
Julian Powell
Absolutely based user.
youtu.be
Jackson Sanchez
Their women were ugly as shit. Would you be willing to fight for THESE?
Angel Rivera
I'd die for her if she would have me, senpai.
Kayden Price
That one on the left literally looks like a guy.
Dominic Reyes
Looks like Joe Pesci in a dress.
Asher Long
they look like romani or moroccans
Oliver Robinson
>the tranny brigade
So nothing has changed really
Jaxson Hill
Was there a Libertarian movement? I mean actual Libertarianism, not what leftycucks hijacked the term for.
Parker Richardson
no
Grayson Phillips
>"If you don't agree with the collective hivemind of progressives, then you're a fascist!"
>"If you're not willing to date a transgender girl/boy, then you're a bigot!"
>"If you didn't vote for Hillary, then you're a misogynist!"
>"If you like guns, then you're a white supremacist!"
Nice straw man you got there, Boris.
Noah Miller
People actually say shit like this though, I'm not sure what country you might live in
Isaiah Lopez
People will imply that you're a bad person, or say you don't care about dead kids if you support guns. At this point, I don't even think it would be a stretch for people to assume you're a white supremacist if you believed in the second amendment.
Christopher Reyes
Leftists larping that they were a real political group
Dylan Powell
The left is completely incompetent when it comes to doing anything.
Anthony Williams
>I don't think it's a stretch
So you're just imagining the persecution. Grow up faggot. Also if you actually think guns are in threat of being banned or that either party will produce any serious legislation on it you're retarded.