Were fairy tales really "dark and edgy" or is that just a myth?

Well, assuming Ossian was real and not just a conceit used by Macpherson to lend more authenticity to his collection, he was just doing what others did in their attempt to preserve oral stories.

Some were some weren't.

My favourite fairy tale is this one: grimmstories.com/en/grimm_fairy-tales/the_devils_sooty_brother

Why was he so popular? The king of Norway named his son after an Ossian character and Napoleon loved it

Depends on which version. The Perrault version, published about 100 years before Grimm, ends with her dead and is a metaphor for children and especially young girls/women who were often the target of sexual and other violence.

It ends with:

>And, saying these words, this wicked wolf fell upon Little Red Riding Hood, and ate her all up.

And that's it, no happy ending for her.

Perrault's moral at the end of his text:

>Moral: Children, especially attractive, well bred young ladies, should never talk to strangers, for if they should do so, they may well provide dinner for a wolf. I say "wolf," but there are various kinds of wolves. There are also those who are charming, quiet, polite, unassuming, complacent, and sweet, who pursue young women at home and in the streets. And unfortunately, it is these gentle wolves who are the most dangerous ones of all.

Earlier versions before Perrault are sometimes even more bleak. In one version the wolf leaves out the grandmother's blood and meat for the girl to eat to fuck with her by making her unwittingly eat her beloved grandmother, then ate her after she was full. In another she gets in bed with him and the story ends there, with obvious implications. Sometimes she lives in these earlier versions too, though. In one version she's in bed with him, again with those implications, but she tells the wolf she needs to poop and doesn't want to poop in bed; so the wolf ties a string on her and lets her go outside to poop, and she ties the string to something else and escapes. In another she manages to run away from the house and is helped by some laundresses, who trick the wolf by laying a blanket over a stream and having the girl to go the other side; when the wolf tries to run across, he falls in and drowns.

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The devil's pretty nice in this one, all thing's considered.

The ignorance in this thread is amazing.

Enlighten us then, oh wise one.

Whats the deal with the stories about older brothers failing at a quest while the younger one succeeds (usually with the help of animals he aided)?

original stories are full of gore and vore, cannibals eating their own children, all kinds if horror and splatter, sex and crime

that's not dark or edgy
no, modern people are just bitches who see three dead people in their life, tops.
way back in the Middle Ages or earlier, when these tales came about, children had seen more dead and maimed than the modern soldier.

I'm not sure which ones you mean exactly, but most of those types of stories boil down to the person who succeeds having a quality that the other brother/sibling doesn't, with that quality usually being related to compassion for others. So the point of the story is to teach the listener that thinking of others and having compassion will lead to just rewards, whereas not having compassion could lead to punishment or at best, not getting what you wanted.

>sweep and tend the kitchen fire of the devil for 7 years
>get untold riches in return
>get robbed
>tell the devil and he resolves the situation
>end up marrying a princess and becoming king

I was expecting it to end with the devil having that man's soul or something but.

They still are in many countries. Here (Slovakia) Grimms fairytales were told to me as a kid as they were, with all the cannibal witches living in gingerbread huts that the kids burn in a hearth etc.

They were definitely dark, but "edgy" is relative.

Dobšinský's tales are even more brutal than Grimm. There's always some mutilation, cannibalism and torture.

I've read the "cannibal witch living in the forest" trope present in both Germanic (Grimms) and Slavic (Baba Yaga) fairytales and folklore was inspired by the fact that during the Great Famine in the middle ages, some starving, lonely old people indeed did eat abandoned kids history-behind-game-of-thrones.com/historical-periods/cannibalism-2

You are right.

No the Jews want you to think that

Just for reference

Baba Yaga actually isn't originally Slavic, but probably Finnic, Slavic tribes migrating deep into Finno-Ugric territory in what is now Russia likely adopted this myth. She also eats specifically Russians in the tales and not other ethnicities.

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But we also have Ježibaba which is Western Slavic version of Baba Yaga.

To be fair Hansel and Gretel is one of the few fairy tales that is relatively untouched by any modern censorship, even in America. I think the most that some adaptations do is make it clear that the wife is a stepmother and not the children's mother. And sometimes make it so that the father doesn't know of her plans to abandon the children, rather than the father submitting to them. Though these alterations have their origins in 19th century changes, so I don't know if they'd even be considered modern censorship. But Hansel is always fattened up for eating and the witch is always burned.

I wonder if it's because the witch is burned in a direct act of self-defense rather than more censored endings, like the the queen in Snow White being sentenced to a brutal death well after Snow White has been saved and is married to a prince.

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The name Baba Yaga is Slavic, but the myth itself isn't. Ježibaba is just a generic Slavic word for witch.

It goes back and forth between people being more edgy and people being more clean. Even in the days of Ancient Greece the older stories would be more gruesome then the new ones.

>She also eats specifically Russians
>tfw the witch can't eat anyone if there's no meat to eat because you are already starving everyone to death yourself

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It's possible but I don't know that I've ever seen scholarly research done on that period as a potential origin for that trope that would provide evidence in either direction.

>n one version she's in bed with him, again with those implications, but she tells the wolf she needs to poop and doesn't want to poop in bed; so the wolf ties a string on her and lets her go outside to poop, and she ties the string to something else and escapes.

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>that's not dark or edgy

Edgy, no. I'd consider a story where someone is dismembered or killed dark, though.

wat

>cannibal witches living in gingerbread huts that the kids burn in a hearth etc.

Everyone gets that version of Hansel and Gretel. There is no other.

Being cut out of the wolf's stomach, and then filling it with stones and sewing it up is pretty fucked up desu.

They also drowned a second wolf.

>"Fetch a bucket, Little Red Cap," she said. "Yesterday I cooked some sausage. Carry the water that I boiled them with to the trough." Little Red Cap carried water until the large, large trough was clear full. The smell of sausage arose into the wolf's nose. He sniffed and looked down, stretching his neck so long that he could no longer hold himself, and he began to slide. He slid off the roof, fell into the trough, and drowned. And Little Red Cap returned home happily and safely.

>swallows her whole and alive without hurting her
That's not how it ends. The woodsman gets there, cuts open the wolf, and finds her body parts.

>That's not how it ends.

That's how the published Grimm version ends. Or rather, not how it ends, since it extends to but it's what happens to the girl and her grandmother.

>A huntsman was just passing by. He thought it strange that the old woman was snoring so loudly, so he decided to take a look. He stepped inside, and in the bed there lay the wolf that he had been hunting for such a long time. "He has eaten the grandmother, but perhaps she still can be saved. I won't shoot him," thought the huntsman. So he took a pair of scissors and cut open his belly.

>He had cut only a few strokes when he saw the red cap shining through. He cut a little more, and the girl jumped out and cried, "Oh, I was so frightened! It was so dark inside the wolf's body!"

stalin would already be safe though

i jsut clicked on some random norwegian fairytales on wikipedia and got these 3:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots_and_His_Brothers
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Peter_(fairy_tale)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Princess_on_the_Glass_Hill
Your explanation makes sense but why is it always the youngest?

They're "dark and edgy" in the minds of semi-literate tards who simply put know fuck all (normies). I recommend Jung and Campbell. All these fairy tales carry a great deal of symbolism and definite truth, and they use evocative imagery to engage ones imagination.

Hansel & Gretel for instance has far reaching implications of shaktism, the anima as understood by Jung, and even hints at something so utterly ancient that it probably reaches back to the time metal working was a novelty. Most if not all authentic fairy tales and folk stories are obscenely old, even if the story can be traced back to this or that particular time. This is due to many things I'm too lazy to write about (read Jung and Campbell).

Simply put you don't need a religion or philosophy, not because kindergarten lessons are valid, but because fairy tales can be read in many ways.

>Your explanation makes sense but why is it always the youngest?

It could be because the youngest were the most open to guidance, the most willing to change their ways, maybe? Or it could just be that it's a more effective storytelling device to go from top to bottom, with the last being the one that works/succeeds in some way. For instance in Hop o' my thumb, Hop o' my thumb is the youngest of 7 children, and he's the one who overhears the parents talking about abandoning them and is subsequently the brother who thinks of the way to save his siblings from being eaten by an ogre.

>mfw those articles about how "Disney Changed These Dark Fairytales" are about 70% bullshit

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Yeah, I can't think of any adaptations that change those aspects. Even the super cutesy one I have where instead of the mother/stepmother deliberately taking them into the woods to abandon them, they just get lost in the woods themselves, still retains the witch wanting to eat children and Gretel pushing her ass into the oven.

Bump

>poop
hehe

Underdogs

Depends on which ones but, yeah, most of those clickbait articles are disingenuous at best for about half the tales they usually mentioned.

For instance they claim that Sleeping Beauty originally had rape and Disney "Disneyfied" it, but the Disney film is based on the Grimm's Little Brier-Rose as well as the ballet The Sleeping Beauty, neither of which contained rape at any point. The "Sleeping Beauty" that contains rape is not Sleeping Beauty at all, but Sun, Moon and Talia, which is in the same tale-type as The Sleeping Beauty in the Wood and Little Brier-Rose but is not the same story. And, in either case, Disney did not base their film on Sun, Moon and Talia.

And the same for Cinderella... Disney's Cinderella is based on the Perrault tale, which does not have the stepmother slicing off parts of her daughter's feet so they fit the shoe, nor does it have birds pecking out the stepsister's eyes. To claim that Disney "Disneyfied" the fairy tale is again off base because Disney chose Perrault's version to adapt.

Snow White they altered in two significant ways, first with the queen being killed by her own folly in the storm rather than being invited to Snow White's wedding and murdered; then with Snow White being saved with a kiss, rather than the prince's retinue dropping her casket, causing the apple piece to fall out of her mouth.

Little Mermaid they altered significantly, Beauty and the Beast not too much or at least not in terms of it being less dark, Rapunzel of course but I don't really consider Tangled an "adaptation" of Rapunzel in the same way that the earliest Disney films were fairy tale adaptations.

I'd really like a modern fairy tale with ass to mouth and face fucking and puke and a happy ending.

Read books, oh stupid one.

>calls other people ignorant
>what's being said that's ignorant?
>READ BOOKS UR DUMB

Kek

it's classic

In an 18th century version from my country she literally shits in the woulds with such colorful language as “are you shitting ropes?” from the wolf

Are you from France?

On the note of versions...

There's an Italian variant called the Wolf and Three Girls where three sisters ,in turn, are intercepted by the wolf as they try to take food and drink to their sick mother. Each time, the wolf demands the food and drink they're carrying and they return home empty handed. The youngest sister stuffs a portion of her food with nails and tosses it to the wolf, who gets pissed. He beats the girl to her mother's house, eats the mother, then lies in wait for the girl. The typical "what big eyes you have" exchange happens, then he eats her.

In the censored version by Italo Calvino, published in a collection in 1980: When he leaves the house, the townspeople see him, kill him, and save the girl and her mother from his belly.

In the original version collected by Giambattista Basile, which Calvino used for his boo: The wolf, after killing the mother, makes wine out of her blood, a meat pie from her flesh, and a doorlatch cord from her tendons. He induces the girl to drink her mother's blood and eat her flesh before he eats and kills her himself.

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>woulds
What?

>Beauty and the Beast not too much
I just read the Wikipedia article for the old Beauty and the Beast, and they changed it very significantly. If anything, though, they made it more dark.

Oh I should have been more clear, I don't mean that they didn't change the details or story at all, but that Disney didn't make the story less dark than the original, since the person was talking about those clickbait type articles where they claim Disney is hiding the "dark truth" of the fairy tales with their supposedly Disney-fied versions. Which in a few cases is true but in most it's a case of "Disney is adapting a specific variant which did not contain (dismemberment, rape, etc)."

Oddly enough, if you've seen the Disney live action remake, they incorporated a number of elements from the original story. Like the Beast opening his castle to Maurice with food and a warm fire, and Maurice stealing a rose starting the whole thing.

He's probably french, and meant "woods". Autocorrect is a bitch.