Atheists/agnostics

Logical proofs fail too and I would expect empirical proof of a being so incredibly relevant to the universe

>Logical proofs fail too
Go through the five ways and the Aristotelian proofs and tell me what your problems are for starters.
It was relevant in contrasting the each branch. I'm not offended at all. You've probably been on this board too much nothing here is serious or matters anyways

Why couldn't the universe simply have always existed? Without a beginning or end just like ""G*d"""

I've deleted my previous post to include a picture of the full comment. As I said, even though I don't follow an abrahamic religion, I do find some of these logical proofs to be swaying.

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no proof of anything divine in anything or anyone.

Well, one argument I've heard is that it would be impossible to arrive at this moment in time if there are an infinite amount of moments preceding it.

Well, we know today that time had a beginning but as far as we can tell there wasn't anything before that. To modern physicists the questions "what happened before the big bang?" is an incoherent statement.

Good point, I think we bump up against the limits of cognition when we try to think beyond space, time and causality. Arguments for God in these cases are compelling.

Fair

Not even atheist/agnostic, but it's probably all the literally impossible shit they lump in with the good bits of wisdom.

Basically the fact that the only reason to believe is because of a book admittedly written by humans full of fantastical things like talking snakes and Noah's ark. Superstition was used to explain the unexplained, we have the internet for that now.

You could probably fit God in their and be fine but the problem I have with that is that anything could fit there just as well. You could say a masturbating rodent created the universe just as well as the Christian God. Both equally fulfill the first causer role. In my opinion, the first cause is the universe itself. It could easily have the same property as God, that it could not have not existed.

No independent evidence for the supernatural claims of the two faiths in question is the biggest one.

Even if you say its all a metaphor I just see absolutely no reason to believe

I dont believe its real. It is mythology and its age makes that extremely obvious. When I was a kid I rejected it outright, as I got older I started to see the role of mythology in civilization. I do believe there are metaphysical realities greater than what we can experience or understand, but the christian, jewish, islamic religions do not fit what I observe in the natural world

>Saying that there is no proof that God exists is a positive claim
Are you american?

As I mentioned earlier, there are prophecies, and I mentioned my issues with that. Furthermore, from talks I've had with Christians in the past, they will point to how the Bible, despite coming from many sources disconnected in history sometimes by centuries, still is internally consistent. They use this as proof of the Bible's divine inspiration. Muslims will point to the fact that the Koran is too beautiful and surpasses the beauty of the best poets of the time despite the fact that Muhammad was illiterate.

The bibles survival and spread through human history is pretty impressive, and it itself but at the end of the day its just a book, should I believe Dantes Inferno?

I wasn't referring to its spread, so much as its internal consistency and accurate accounts of real world events.

True but you dont need divine influence to write a historical text, and the internal consistency can be chalked up to good writers can it not?

Atheists believe god does not exist.

>internally consistent.
That doesnt prove a divine origin.

You can't believe negatives; just like Fairies, Big Foot and Zeus, you have too prove they exist (which is a positive claim).

this. I believe that some things are supernatural and cannot be explained.

You have to prove god doesn't exist. You don't just assume he doesn't if you don't have to make that assumption. If you can't prove Gods existence or nonexistence, then you admit you don't know or can't know.

A shame something so simple is lost on people

I left Christianity because of doubts arising from the problems around theodicy and predestination. I stay away because I think that a materialist explanation of the world is sufficient, I simply don't see the need for metaphysics of any sort. This also rules out Islam for me.

Do you have to prove that i didn't fuck your mom too? Or do the rules of your 'logic' change based on the number of fools that believe in something?

>I simply don't see the need for metaphysics of any sort.
Could you elaborate on this? Maybe just get me on your train of thought. Genuinely interested.

I embraced Christianity after studying Aquinas and the whole logical tradition of monotheism, and after having read the Gospels and feeling "born again" i.e. feeling like I finally "got it" like I seen God's love and mercy in everything. It gave me hope that there is a love without parting, and eternal beauty and joy and everything else. I mean, what could be better? But I've since become very doubtful and I'm not sure whether to just fully jump into faith in order to die peacefully with a hope in God's future kingdom or to take a Nietzschean route.

I'm tormented.

I don't know if you fucked my mom, but I would need proof that you didn't to make an honest claim that you didn't fuck my mom.

Short answer: science and philosophy

Slightly longer answer: metaphysical concepts like a theistic creator God, souls, and sin, were created to fill gaps in human understanding about the cosmos, life, psychology, and to justify moral behavior. Even though there are questions yet to be answered by scientific inquiry, there's a clear pattern that shows that with sufficient inquiry, even the most complex things that we observe in the universe and in our biology can be traced back to material, physical causes.

This leaves the problem of how we can derive ethical guidance for human behavior - a challenge to be sure, but not impossible, because by observing patterns of human behavior, and using our capacity for reason, we can deduce practical rules will that tend to encourage and enable humans to live flourishing, fulfilling, happy lives.

Was Roman Catholic for 20 some years.

Didn't do anything for me.

Did y-you just say th ... holy fuck, i don't know if i should respect or mock your level of fanaticism

Because the earliest layers of the New Testament, namely the seven authentic Pauline epistles and the synoptic gospels lack clear support for key Christian doctrines such as the trinity and show that Jesus and the first generation of Christians expected the final judgment to happen soon, like very soon, meaning Jesus was essentially a failed apocalyptic prophet. Pic related.

I haven't cared enough to study Islam, but I assume it's bullshit too.

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They were created by people. Would you trust a religion made up by normies today?

M O R I B U N D

> basic education

No God responsible for such an awful and imperfect world is worth worshipping. This universe and it's master should be destroyed. Islam is better than Christianity as it encourages conquest but at the end of the day they are both submissive.

because i know the world is more than 6000 years old and i find the evidence for evolution more persuasive than the creation myth

I just have a hard time believing in souls, and thus any sort of afterlife, which is rather central to those religions.

From someone not born into it, it's just pretty silly you know.

>because by observing patterns of human behavior, and using our capacity for reason, we can deduce practical rules will that tend to encourage and enable humans to live flourishing, fulfilling, happy lives.

Yeah, that's never gonna happen..

Evolution is a myth.

Creation is a scientific fact.
The world is approx. 6000 years old.

youtube.com/watch?v=shyI-aQaXD0

newgeology.us/presentation32.html

If God really cared he could prevent Holocaust.

Then why do Chinese convert to Christianity and why do Mexican Muslims exist?

> In particular, the two big ones, Christianity and Islam.
If one of them was true, other wouldn't exist.

If God created us, who created God? If he just exists, why can't the universe just exist?

Because so far as I'm aware they haven't met their burden of proof.

>Atheist experience
I wouldn't call it deep but it's definitely educational.

It´s not interesting enough

youtube.com/watch?v=kKKIvmcO5LQ

Look up near death experiences and the entire topic of ufology and hidden history.

The physical world is not all there is, materialism has been debunked decades ago

The Bible is the Word of God.

Agnostic answers a completely different question than whether or not you believe in a god.
It's logically impossible to be a 'neither' to a yes or no question.

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That's because Roman Catholicism is a satanic Babylonian religion.

Biblical history is extremely interesting.

>Noah - The Truth is Bigger Than You Thought
youtube.com/watch?v=lktmmd7YnD8

>Birth of All Occult, Tower of Babel, Nimrod, Abraham
youtube.com/watch?v=S80z3kC31uw

This is retarded. How am I supposed to believe in something that never began to exist in the first place?

They arent true.

Yaweh's stupid fanclubs basically infantilize everyone and make them feel safe under the protection of an all powerful entity so they can pretend the world isn't without point or reason and their consciousness is eternal.

> God exists because his existence is necessary.
> His existence is necessary because I believe it he exists.

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Because of all the overwhelming evidence that points to a Creator?

>Digital Physics Argument for God's Existence
youtube.com/watch?v=v2Xsp4FRgas

>The Leibnizian Cosmological Argument
youtube.com/watch?v=s2ULF5WixMM

>Quantum Physics Debunks Materialism
youtube.com/watch?v=4C5pq7W5yRM

>The Introspective Argument
youtube.com/watch?v=4l1lQMCOguw

>The Teleological Argument
youtube.com/watch?v=3Yt7hvgFuNg

>What Atheists Confuse
Part 1 youtube.com/watch?v=XbLJtxn_OCo
Part 2 youtube.com/watch?v=bj0lekx-NiQ

>Is Atheism a Delusion?
Part 1 youtube.com/watch?v=_Ii-bsrHB0o
Part 2 youtube.com/watch?v=xnBTJDje5xk

You have to be insane to not believe in God, or brainwashed for years.

I reject logical foundationalism. To search for the first cause is to reduce all complexity of our existence to one final answer. This is the death of the spirituality itself.

I find their lack of evidence disturbing.

All of the arguments must be applied to God itself. If he exists, he must follow the logic of existence. Therefore you must believe in the existence of Creator's Creator or either you are just as arbitrary in their rejection of theological implications as atheists.

...

God doesn't need to obey the rules/laws of the universe He created in the first place.

He is not bound by the same limitations we are. Your logic is extremely flawed.

>You have to be insane to believe in God, or brainwashed for years.

>Technology is obviously man-made
>A single cell in your body, more complicated than the International Space Station, was just a product of random chance

atheists are mentally ill

>theists are mentally ill

>Is a theist
>"Natural selection is just random chance"
Like pottery

>random chance
It only seems random because you dont know all the information about the events that led to it. Random shit doenst happen user - cause and effect. The universe as it exists is the result of a series of events stretching back to the beginning of time.

If something doesn't obey the laws of existence it can as well be non-exist.

That's why they try to reduce man to nothing but an animal.

Life is extremely complex, DNA is essentially genetic code. In order to have a program, you need a programmer. Life coming from nothing is a mathematical and scientific impossibility.

Man is made in the image of God, and it frightens them because accepting the Bible is true means they'd have to drastically change their lifestyle.

It's easy to do drugs, drink, murder or have pre-marital sex when you've deluded yourself to think there is no God.

Atheists don't want there to be consequences or a purpose to life, and then they wonder why suicide rates are so high or why morality is decaying.

NS is in favor of creation, not evolutionism.

> nothing complicated happens by chance at all

I'm not going to base my life on an ancient tome's laws on a maybe

How can it be in favour of creation? Was it too hard for God to create things perfect enough so there is no need for selection or what?

>Windows Operating System created itself
>Microsoft Office created itself

>there were no programmers who wrote those lines of code, programmers don't exist!

>PC created itself
>there were no people assembling the different parts, they just evolved through magic!

atheists are hilariously dumb

>Old Testament which if I'm not mistaken is actually just the Torah
It's the Tanakh, but some Old Testaments translated for Christian use remove or shift canonical books around. The Torah is actually the first five books of the Tanakh/OT/Hebrew Bible, but some people specify it to mean the entirety of the Tanakh.

>God needs a highly inefficient system to create 'perfect' beings
Hmm, really makes you think.

> God
> The most complex being in existence
> Wasn't created by anyone!
Theists are even dumber by their own standards.

NS is GOD itself, not God's System.

Do you even know what NS is?

NS is not a creative force, it doesn't create new species or animals. It just selects from an already existing population/group and thins it out.

If you're working in a car factory and in charge of taking out the defective/bad parts, how long will it take for the cars to turn into a plane? Never.

Hence NS is in favor of creation, not evolution. According to creation, there is decay and entropy over time. Which is exactly what we observe. Humans today are nothing compared to the pre-Flood humans that lived to be hundreds of years old. Adam and Eve were biological masterpieces without any defects or mutations like we have today.

Islam disgusts me.

>Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Book 62:

>Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64:

>Narrated 'Aisha:

>that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years

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God by definition is eternal, he is the I AM, the Alpha and Omega.

>Muhammad hates pictures
>makes his religion say pictures of humans and other livings things are forbidden (that's why their art is all abstract shit)
>muslims still have to proselityze with something that's forbidden to them

hmmmmmm
Fun fact: pictures of trees are OK because apparently to Muhammad trees aren't living beings.

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Azathoth is the creator god of everything.

1. The universe is contingent on Azathoth's dream-state and Azathoth is contingent on the universe and thus contingent on his own dream-state. Azathoth is dreaming the universe and he is the universe and thus he is his own dream.

2. Azathoth is mindless and non-rational and passively pursues his "goals" in the same way that a ball "desires" to roll down a hill.

3. Also like a ball rolling down a hill, Azathoth's impetus is to follow the path of least resistance to the point of lowest order and energy. That is, Azathoth's impetus is to cease to exist. Since Azathoth and the universe are contingent on each other, this means the universe will also cease to exist.

4. Azathoth is prevented from realizing this impetus by the outer gods who want to exist. They maintain his dreamstate knowing that if he woke up all realities and unrealities would immediately terminate.

5. Instead, Azathoth attains a vicarious annihilation by imbuing his impetus on all living things. Azathoth is the urge to kill and destroy and consume past our means, but also to reproduce because more growth means more death. Reality is Azathoth's temple and every atom within it worships Azathoth.

Everything that's ever happened is just an emergent property of God's eternal self-mutilation.

If you seek insight look for the Kitab Al'Azif, the blind truth is written down there, wisdom from the chosen prophet of the outer gods himself, Abdullah Alḥa ẓred.

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Ad hominem / Appeal to ridicule logical fallacy.

Not an argument.

The Truth will set you free.

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>That cult would never die till the stars came right again, and the secret priests would take great Cthulhu from His tomb to revive His subjects and resume His rule of earth. The time would be easy to know, for then mankind would have become as the Great Old Ones; free and wild and beyond good and evil, with laws and morals thrown aside and all men shouting and killing and revelling in joy. Then the liberated Old Ones would teach them new ways to shout and kill and revel and enjoy themselves, and all the earth would flame with a holocaust of ecstasy and freedom. Meanwhile the cult, by appropriate rites, must keep alive the memory of those ancient ways and shadow forth the prophecy of their return.
- De Vermis Mysteris 14:88

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> God is *super special* and therefore should be an exception from critics based on my own logical principles
This only proves that we can't believe in God. No honest person will believe in something that doesn't follow their own logic, their own understanding.