The Ulster Scots/Scotch Irish

askme
askme

tell me about these people, and their influences in the New World and Old World.
Are they underrated? the American South was made and defined by the Scotch Irish.

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Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_Scots_people
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotch-Irish_Americans
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Northumbria
academia.edu/36040513/An_Examination_of_the_Process_by_which_Scotland_became_an_English-Speaking_Country
sco.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mairches

TreeEater
TreeEater

he American South was made and defined by the Scotch Irish
Exactly, that's why it's such a tremendous shithole. Trailer trash, hillbillies, rednecks, almost exclusively a Scots Irish phenomenon. Defined by obesity, rampant drug use, teen pregnancies, poverty and low IQ.
Seriously look at Texas and contrast other Texan whites - Germans, English, Czechs - to Scots Irish. The former are normal people, the latter (mostly scattered around east Texas) are literal human filth.

Firespawn
Firespawn

the Scotch-Irish are good folks that created the Southern culture

t. "German"-Texan that lived around New Braunfels/Fredricksburg area

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StonedTime
StonedTime

Southern culture consists of deep frying your socks, abusing drugs and talking like a nigger.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

t. Billy Yank
please stop moving here then pls

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

Wrong.

Booteefool
Booteefool

Did Willy McWilliam fuck your mom?

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

Eurangutan?

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

No, but you're fruitlessly trying to ad hom me instead of addressing the issue in question, which is the fact Scots Irish people are absolute shit and so is their culture. It's a quantifiable statistical reality.

whereismyname
whereismyname

your argument is a stupid and absurd /int/-tier attack based on a stereotype, with no respect to the objective and quantifiable influence the Scotch-Irish had in building two world superpowers.
ffs why would i ever take your /int/ level dribble and deal with it like it has Veeky Forums substance?

Booteefool
Booteefool

obesity
IQ
income
education
drug abuse rate
these are somehow not quantifiable metric

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

A. these are statistics largely brought on by specific socioeconomic circumstances ins specific regions
Kentucky is a lovely place to live, so is Texas
B. will we ignore all those other southern gentry that did things like create the US?

Bidwell
Bidwell

are all the dicks you suck quantifiable?

DeathDog
DeathDog

southern gentry
Largely Anglo-Saxon all over the South. Scots Irish have mostly been the plebs.

Butthurt.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

Scotch-Irish aren't Anglo-Saxon
user, I...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_Scots_people

Supergrass
Supergrass

X isn't Y
Well yeah it isn't.

Inmate
Inmate

SCOTCH-Irish
Anglo-Saxon
Honey...

JunkTop
JunkTop

For god's sake, UT's SCOTS-Irish not SCOTCH! Scotch's a drink you pleb!

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

A bit irrelevant, but as a Southerner, the Scots-Irish and the Afrikaners are probably my favorite foreign cultures.
We're united by hardiness, Protestantism, and a stereotype of being white-trash bigots.

Booteefool
Booteefool

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotch-Irish_Americans
The state of you.

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

Ulsterfag here

Ask me anything I guess. I like to think I'm generally pretty knowledgeable, but I also have academic expertise in linguistic shifts in Ulster and the Scottish Lowlands if you're curious about that.

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farquit
farquit

Should Cromwell have stopped at Drogheda?

likme
likme

*rapidly amplifying jig*

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Methshot
Methshot

Thoughts of the Scots influence on the dialects of the American South?

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

Lowland Scots are LITERALLY Englishmen in skirts

Which isn't an insult, because c*lts are cucks.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Northumbria

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

Wikipedia is by and for flaming faggots

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

Who, would you say, is the national hero of the Ulster Scots?

RumChicken
RumChicken

Irrelevant.
Anglo-Saxon mixed with Scot and native Briton. Even the English are predominantly Celtic.

StonedTime
StonedTime

Not him, but it's probably William III.

JunkTop
JunkTop

Yes, he was a naughty boy.

Neat but somewhat overstated, Scots was already on its way out as the vernacular when settlement of the South was getting underway.

I wouldn't say there is one, Ulster Scots as an identity distinct from Irish is a very recent thing, so there hasn't been much of a nationalist tradition for them as much as their has been for the rest of Ireland or Scotland. I'd say to see what the future holds but I don't think it'll even last another hundred years.

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Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

describing ethnicity in genetic terms poke my haplogroup owns a language
ethnology brainlet

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

describing ethnicity in genetic terms poke my haplogroup owns a language
What does this """sentence""" even mean?

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

Myth not supported by genetics.

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haveahappyday
haveahappyday

*Terms like my

takes2long
takes2long

Even then, it doesn't make much sense.
Are you criticising my use of the word "Celtic"?

massdebater
massdebater

That's not how ethnology works

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

genetically Celtic
consider themselves Scottish
but they're somehow Englishmen

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

Because ethnicity isn't determined by genes.
Vague sociological tools like race do, but not specific genetics.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

ethnicity isn't determined by genes
What is it determined by then?

Emberfire
Emberfire

genetically 'x'
Highlanders and lowlanders are so different it's laughable

SniperGod
SniperGod

the fact or state of belonging to a social group that has a common national or cultural tradition.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

literally the first result on Google
Noice.
An ethnicity in the conventional sense (i.e. what everyone but you means when they say "ethnicity") is defined by genetic factors. I have never seen it be used in any other sense until now.
Why were you arguing that Lowland Scots are Anglo?

eGremlin
eGremlin

Lowlanders are genetically closer to highlanders than they are to the English.

JunkTop
JunkTop

Because they are Anglic in culture

It's the amerimutt stereotype that you can be fractions of ethnic groups rather than objectively looking at your lifestyle to see what your place is in the world

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

Genetics means fuck all to ethnicity

It would mean that French isn't an ethnicity, but only Gaul, Frank, Roman, etc.
all dead peoples.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

Anglic in culture
How so? They have been members of the Scottish nation for a millennium. The Lowlanders adopted clans and today they wear funny tartans and speak with a funny accent. They identify with Scotland more than England.

whereismyname
whereismyname

You're a fucking idiot. I mean seriously, their identity isn't English, their genetics aren't English, nothing about them is English.

Supergrass
Supergrass

That funny accent is Scots, an Anglic language
That continuum is from the likes of the Angles of Northumbriaot the Gaels from Ireland

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

I meme that they're ENGLISH but they ARE Anglo

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

Yes, it's Scots, which is a Scottish language. You only find the Scots language in Scotland, therefore it's Scottish.
Unless you're arguing that it isn't Scottish because it originates from people who weren't ethnically Scottish, which would conflict with what you originally said.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

Anglo
English
That's literally the same thing.

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

Scotland is not unified.
The Gaels that inhabit the highlands are different than the Anglic lowlanders.
They live different lives, different cultures.

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

England is a nation. Anglo/Anglic is a description of ethnicities defined by Anglo-Saxon culture.

Soft_member
Soft_member

Anglo is a synonym of English.

girlDog
girlDog

Scotland is not unified
Last time I checked a map of the British Isles, it is.
Different cultures can exist within a nation. London culture is FAR different to Northern English culture, traditional Bavarian culture is different to Prussian culture.

5mileys
5mileys

So what do you think of the Northumbrians compared to the Gaels?
Same people?

w8t4u
w8t4u

They're both been two sides of the same Scottish coin for a thousand years.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

So the Scots don't have one face, but two? A Celtic one and a Anglic one?

Techpill
Techpill

You unironically think Glasgow is culturally more similar to Kent than it is to the Highlands?

Methnerd
Methnerd

Yes, Lowlanders and Highlanders are both Scottish.

Emberfire
Emberfire

So we submit that Scotland is something of a construct binding two different people?

If they were monolingual to their respect ethnic groups, the Lowlander and Kentish man can talk, while the Highlander cannot even SPEAK to the Lowlander.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

There's more to culture than language, and there was plenty of cross-cultural pollination between the Highlands and Lowlands.

If they were monolingual to their respect ethnic groups, the Lowlander and Kentish man can talk
It's interesting that you should say that because we have on historical record a letter of complaint from a 16th century Northumbrian landlord in Ireland who was renting out properties to tenants from the Mairches, and noted that their speech and writing "could not be reckoned or understood."

StonedTime
StonedTime

Essentially, yes, but this is what most countries in Europe are. Anglo-Saxons are made up of Angles, Saxons and Jutes, the Germans are made up of various different nations, the Spanish were once separate kingdoms and cultures that still exist today (i.e. Catalans and Castilians). Same with the Italians.
Both are still Scottish.

FastChef
FastChef

I wrote my undergraduate dissertation on Scots, which might be of some interest to people ITT. I want to follow it up with another article on Scots as it was spoken in Ulster, or maybe even a book, but I have to actually work for a living now which complicates things

academia.edu/36040513/An_Examination_of_the_Process_by_which_Scotland_became_an_English-Speaking_Country

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Spazyfool
Spazyfool

Lowlanders used to speak Gaelic until the early modern period. You're basically saying they somehow became Anglos just because they started speaking a language somewhat similar to English, which is retarded.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

Mairches
Guess what clicked on, and guess what I could understand
sco.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mairches

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

Yes, you can change into another ethnicity, given cultural pressure and time.
That's why some ethnic groups are considered dead even though they weren't all physically killed.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

But they didn't change ethnicity, they're still ethnically Scottish. You think ethnicity is just a synonym of language? Are you that daft?

happy_sad
happy_sad

n-no

askme
askme

t. buttmad wigger

Emberfire
Emberfire

The Scots wikipedia isn't written in actual Scots. It was started by a group of Gaelic activists to take the piss out of Scots and siphon funding away from them by demonstrating that it wasn't sufficiently different form English, and over the years some genuine activists have gotten caught up in it.

This
Historicalie, the name Scots Borders designatit the hail border region o soothren Scotland an, thegither wi neiborin auries o Ingland, wis pairt o the historical Borders region.
Isn't Scots

This
Syne, the name o 'Scots Borders' denomatit the hail brink quhalter o sothron Scotland, an serrit wae nychtborit quhalteris o Ingland, wis pairt o the synit Borders quhalter.
is Scots

And that's modern Scots, which has been very anglicised compared to 16th century Scots.

Firespawn
Firespawn

The labels we apply to things and the reality of things do not always mesh.
Lines need to be drawn along the tangible.
We aren't all still the Yamnaya Indo-Europeans of 3,000 years ago

RumChicken
RumChicken

I stand properly corrected then

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

But you're literally just labeling them Anglo-Saxons because their mother tongue is a language related to English, even though they consider themselves to be Scottish, and their genes are still Scottish. Based on your criteria, Liberia, Barbados and Jamaica are Anglo-Saxon too.

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

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MPmaster
MPmaster

the American South was made and defined by the Scotch Irish.
and thats pretty harsh criticism

5mileys
5mileys

More things go into that, and I'm actually advocating for a certain level of overlap.
The Scots are likely the most Celtic of the Anglos.
The Jamaicans are the most Anglic of those Bantus.

Personally, I don't want to make the Scottish less Scottish. They are themselves, and what they are ought to be seen in all respects to how they think themselves and how they live.

At the end of the day, they are indeed Scots.

Bidwell
Bidwell

Delet this y*Nkoid

eGremlin
eGremlin

the Jamaicans are the most Anglic of the Bantus
The shit I read on this board kek

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

t. bastard son of a buttmad wigger

DeathDog
DeathDog

well what do you call ethnic group that adopt features from elsewhere?
where is the line drawn?

RavySnake
RavySnake

of course it’s a shithole
their entire culture is based on how Not-Irish they are, to the point they make up absolute bullshit alt-his

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

Why do you Irishmen have such an unhealthy hatred? And the dumbasses here just stroke your puny ego.
Ireland is shit.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

The Scots wikipedia isn't written in actual Scots. It was started by a group of Gaelic activists to take the piss out of Scots and siphon funding away from them
that's disgusting

askme
askme

Scots
Irish
people
lel

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

Reminder that Ulster-Scots people deny their own actual history in favour of an autistic anti-irish fever dream.
Reminder that Ulster-Scots people don't care about "Ulster-Scots" but pretend to care about it to offset the Irish language even though Ulster-Scots is a dead dialect and Irish is a dead language.
Reminder that Ulster-Scots history and protestant history of Ireland including the plantations is fascinating and a valid part of both British and Irish heritage but Ulster-Scots people throw it all away for sake of muh uvf and muh england.

Reminder that Ulster-Scots people are the Irish people of the Irish people. They are the whiny, irrelevant and incompetent faggots with a victim complex of the people on the island of Ireland, an island full of whiny irrelevant and incompetent people.
Sever Ulster from Ireland and bomb it into the fucking sea, we don't want to keep it and the Republic don't want to take it.

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Methnerd
Methnerd

Ulster fag here, there seems to be some debate on if we ulster scots are Anglo or not

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Snarelure
Snarelure

so here is my dna results

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Soft_member
Soft_member

Italian

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

Ulster is the Fourth Rome

eGremlin
eGremlin

Being such a meme people that your culture is entirely based around how not Irish you are while living in Ireland and stealing Irish symbols
lmao

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