Why do people fall for the Stronglifts meme?

This is like complaining that a textbook is boring and has too many facts. Well, it's not supposed to be entertaining like a fiction novel. Similarly, SL is not supposed to have a shitload of volume and isn't supposed to pump up your muscles. It's a novice strength program and does a damn good job at making novices stronger.
>what the fuck is the deal with only overhead press and row as accessory work?
How many accessories are you supposed to be doing? There are three main lifts that people generally use to evaluate strength. Having two accessories to those lifts seems pretty reasonable, especially considering there are no strength imbalances in a novice since their strength changes daily. Those lifts are part of the program to build strength in the few muscle groups that don't get used much in the three main lifts.

FUCKING THIS

noon lifters think they need some shiny complicated program with dozens of isolation exercises to make gains, when studies have shown that the vast majority of size gains you make come from heavy compound lifts.

Everything makes novices stronger, but it's retarded to not have direct core or armwork. And have so little upper body volume.

You won't die if you even out your body a little. Your gains will improve with meaningful accessories.

The ultimate strawman
>Either it has to be "dozens" of accessories with no compound movements or it has to be only 3-5x5 squat bench deadlift with nothing else

Dozens of isolations*

stick to the basics until you need to expand.
and most of the basics are stronkman type of lifts!

Why the fuck are all fitness people so fuckiong terrible with technology? Like how is there not a good 5/3/1 app, or some sort of customizable app? It's 2018 and a spreadsheet and/or pen and paper is better than anything. So fucking backwards.

Probably because it works. It uses the basic principles of getting bigger/stronger that almost any program follows.

The ironic thing is that "5x5" didn't come into existence due to it's effectiveness, but because of marketing. The guy that first made this set/rep structure did so because "it sounded cool".

>it's retarded to not have direct core or armwork. And have so little upper body volume.
5x5 of rows, bench, and ohp as well as 1x5 dl hit your arms chest upper back and shoulders plenty. Mehdi encourages weighted pull ups and dips if you feel that isnt enough.

Everything does not make novices stronger. Progressive overload makes novices stronger and there are good and bad ways to go about a routine based on progressive overload.
It isn't retarded not to have direct core and arm work when you're still making progress. The program is designed to make novices better at powerlifting. Again, you just want the program to give you something it isn't trying to give you.
As far as evening out your body goes, SL will naturally even out your body. As someone who started with SL, I can attest that for some weeks it didn't feel like I worked out my legs at all even though I was doing 5x5 squats as heavy as possible. Sometimes my abs were the weakest link and sometimes my it was my traps. A beginner's strength changes very quickly so implementing many accessories isn't necessary. The accessories implemented in the program are to ensure that large muscle groups missed by the big three do get trained.

>literally starting SL 5x5 tommorow afternoon
fuck off OP I don't need this shit

If you’re so good with tech, why don’t you make one?

Literally stretching makes untrained novices stronger.

This doesn’t mean that some things aren’t better than others.

>what is fitnotes
Just because you havent looked for something, that doesnt mean its not there

Stretching will not make you strong. It will make untrained individuals slightly stronger.
>doesn't mean some things aren't better than others
Of course not. I said that in the post you replied to. But again, you just think fiction is better than nonfiction. Not that there are some fiction novels better than the one I like.
For the very last time: Stronglifts is meant to make you good at powerlifting. There are no other programs that will do this any better than Stronglifts. There are other programs that work just as well, but there is nothing out there that is going to make you any better, any faster

Dude you're literally lifting weights using a movement utilizing multiple joints and increasing weight.

EVERYTHING works for beginners if you do that. The point is this isn't a particularly good

It's not a powerlifting routine you retard. Mehdi has never competed in powerlifting. He does not have good lifts let alone competitive lifts. He's never coached anyone for powerlifting.

www.powerliftingtowin.com/stronglifts-5x5

"Simply Sub-Optimal: Don’t Do StrongLifts 5×5 for Powerlifting"

Now you're just being ridiculous. It's obviously a PL routine. 3/5 lifts are PL.
It doesn't matter how good Medhi is. This is just an appeal to authority fallacy and it's anecdotal evidence if you're trying to say that Medhi is as good a result as anyone will get from the program.
Stay butthurt that all of your meme arguments against a toptier novice program were shot down

>75 working reps a week is not enough volume

Reddit LP is not a better program

There's more to something being a powerlifting routine than just 'uses the squat, bench and deadlift'.

A terrible critique of the program. The article focuses on two points:
1. Medhi is not personally a competitor
2. 5x5 is too much volume
As far as 1 goes, it's just an appeal to authority fallacy. The article even concedes that it doesn't really have any bearing on the quality of the program.
As for 2, like so many other people who complain about the volume, the author clearly has not read the program. After the second deload, the program has you drop to 3x5. And then again to 1x5.

This seems like as good a thread as any other to ask. I used to lift seriously a few years ago until I injured my back and just ended up ceasing any serious exercise regimens. As such, I've gained weight and lost mass. I'm looking to get back into the game. In the past, I always did a powerlifting routine. Stayed on SS for about the first 10 months and after that I did 5/3/1 and, uh I think it was Doggcrap or something. Anyhow, I'm curious if SS is a good regimen to rebuild a decent foundation of strength. My ultimate goal is fat loss and eventually aesthetics, but I always read that you should have decent strength before starting any sort of hypertrophy routine.

I haven't done 1RMs since I've been back but when I tried getting back into things 6 months ago, I had a 275 lb squat, 405 lb deadlift and a pitiful 195 lb bench. I imagine these numbers have decreased marginally since then but I thought I'd give them as some sort of reference. Thanks for any advice.

What do you want a PL routine to do other than increase your bench, squat, and deadlift? Stronglifts does just that pretty efficiently

It's the most basic shit there is... I really don't see how you view this as a top tier routine. You are a DYEL to even call it a powerlifting program simply because you think "Does squat Bench deadlift with under 5 reps for working sets" is what that entails.

Also that's not an appeal to authority, I'm not insulting him or his lifts but it's clear that HE is not a powerlifter, he's never trained powerlifters and his site is not aimed at powerlifters at all either.

On one exercise. At most (it's generally less than that, since once you're at a challenging weight you're often not going to get every rep every session). The rest of them have half that volume. With very limited assistance work

It's not a tiny amount of volume but it really isn't as much as most coaches would recommend.

What the fuck? It doesn't say it's too much volume anywhere, no FUCKING moron in their mind thinks 3 exercises 5x5 per workout is a lot of volume.

That is the laziest shit ever. It's too much lower body.

Why are you questioning a routine that has worked for so many people?

So what's better, SS or SL?

Does greyskull beat them both?

You want it to do two things

1. Focus specifically on the squat, bench and dead. SL doesn't - seriously, no proper raw powerlifting program treats the OHP as a main lift on par with actually benching or relegates the deadlift that fucking far behind the squat.

2. A powerlifting program is going to focus on not just using those movements, but on getting as good as possible on what you're going to be doing in competition. Which means the need for lower rep work (as well as high intensity work, which may or may not be separate) as well as actually using the competition bench.

Being popular doesn't necessarily make something good.

SS is marginally better than SL. I havent bothered even looking into greyskull but i imagine that as long as its a linear progression focusing on major compound lifts itll make little difference to a beginner.

I didn't say it was either of those things, I said it has worked for many people, which is right.

Greyskull is better but I'd look into nsuns LP, quite solid program that makes sense.

Anything where you lift progressively more weight will "work". It is also very popular so naturally it works for "many people" than other routines that are less popular.

How is that even a question?
>How dare you question something that worked for other complete beginners!

Nsuns is effective but it's kind of a mess for complete newbs since it's based off percentages and the secondary lifts tend to require a fair bit of fiddling around.

Also the workload is likely to be brutal on somebody who is just getting off the couch.

The 4day version is not so rough. But yes I can see the percentages being an issue for a total beginner.

Sorry I skimmed it. It does say that 5x5 squatting is too much though.
The author still obviously hasn't even read the program. He complains that SL recommends adding only 5lbs each workout. It doesn't. It recommends adding 10lbs to squats to begin with and 20lbs to deadlifts to begin with.
He also complains about the lack of deadlift frequency caused by rowing frequency. This I think is reasonable. You could probably rewrite the routine to have more deadlifting but for the sake of simplicity and marketing I think Medhi does a good job on it.

SS and SL are the same. Greyskull is worse because of suboptimal lower body volume and pointless AMSNAP sets

Amrap is good'
>Sometimes beginner feels good so he pushes in more volume for the week
>Sometimes does not

Why does it matter if it treats OHP as a main lift? As long as your main 3 are climbing, the program is working fine. I agree the deadlifting is probably too few and far between but like I said here I think it makes the program palatable to a less serious lifter.
For 2, I don't think novices should be too concerned with getting competition ready when their max is changing daily. It's just not necessary

The only issue with AMRAPs (and really, this is an issue with most programming - at some point you gotta rely on the dumbfuck under the bar to do things right) is that many beginners absolutely skullfuck the idea. Either they sandbag like crazy or they keep going five reps after things went to shit.

Because all that time and energy going into developing the OHP is effort not spent improving the bench. Most people do not get good carryover between the two so it's a waste of time from a powerlifting POV. As assistance it's useful (and for health, throwing out overhead work entirely tends to fuck with peoples shoulder mobility) but there's little or no benefit to treating it as a main movement.

I don't mean they have to be peaking for competition, but at some point they have to actually develop the skill of the sport. Endless heavy fives are crap for that (they're not crap for developing strength or even size if you've got enough of them). They're too heavy for good technical work, don't give you a huge number of chances to work on your setup and aren't great for developing limit strength.

These get doubled up on the bench issue, where you end up with limited volume and literally zero lift practice for competition.

the fuck

It's a fucking beginner program, I did a homemade push/pull 6x a week for 2 years and went from 135lbs benching 65lbs, squatting the bar and deadlifting 95lbs to 165lbs bodyweight doing 265/355/485 and all I did was low as fuck volume maxing out every single fucking day doing 1-3 rep sets for the main lifts and 5-12 rep accessories

I've only changed to a periodized routine with more volume for my main lifts now that the gain train finally stopped

You deadlifted three times bw in two years?

I do not believe you.

It's not as if all the calories you burn in one lift could have been spent making gains in another. SL will give you quick gains on the bench press. The reason it's included is because the big 3 aren't great for shoulder development. I'm not going to argue that it's programmed perfectly within the routine but I don't think it's taking away from a beginner's bench progress in any significant way.

I think doing 5x5 gives you a lot of opportunity to get a good feel for the lifts. I agree that everyone should focus on technique but general technique improvement comes with lifting anyway. I wouldn't consider it a huge priority when you could be focusing on adding 5lbs to you bench every week

It absolutely does take away from it.

You're only doing a movement 1.5 times a week..... that you're COMPETING in? That is truly idiotic. If you're a powerlifter then any day you overhead press would be better off benching.

depends how fat you wanna get

Again, SL increases your bench press efficiently whether you like it or not. Stop telling novices to follow intermediate programs.

>STRAIGHT LINE
>TILL SHE SPIIIIIIIILS HEEER BLAAAAACK BLOOOOOD

That's really easy if you're light, I've seen that done in a year by a highschooler

So does doing push ups, but how many powerlifters train by doing push ups? If your only goal is a bigger bench switching out bench for overhead press is retarded

Push ups don't efficiently train your bench press.
The only goal is not to get a bigger bench. The goal of SL is to give novice lifters a well rounded strength base with a focus on powerlifting.
The bench press is not switched out for overhead press. They are both used.

For anyone not benching significantly over bodyweight (or anyone who does and uses loaded variations)? They absolutely do. Far better than overhead movements and better than a fair number of bench variants.

Are you just acting like a fucking retard or are you actually retarded? The purpose of the OHP is not solely to increase your bench press. Just stop

In a powerlifting program? Yes it fucking is.

So either SL is not anything resembling a beginners powerlifting program (which, congratulations, is what people have been trying to tell you) or you're arguing against a point people aren't trying to make.

You're right, it's not a powerlifting program.

A powerlifting program wouldn't have you doing as much OHPing as bench. It's a general strength program.

>tfw starting my 3rd weeks of SL in 1h

just do the remaining 10 weeks and then look for something else, it's good

because they listen to Veeky Forums wiki and /r/fitness
stop just STOP fucking squatting every fucking session
use your brain
you alternate your upper body and back exercises and squat every day
you gonna end up a T Rex soon enough
it happened for me and im still trying to recover it can happen to you too

SL is pure garbage.
SS is better.
But GZCLP and Candito strength/control LP are miles ahead of those two.

ah yes another routine where you don't know what's going on, thankfully I dont go to the gym so I can sit here and read all this until I understand it but wait

what if a better routine comes along and I start this one and i've wasted my gains, no I cant possibly go to the gym with this routine, theoretically it's sound although i dont understand what's happening i'll wait until 2019 to start going to the gym because there might be a better routine by then, dont want to go to the gym and be doing a sub-optimal routine ayy lads?

SL is bretty goood gets you strong pretty quick i started with SL when I began and then started adding my own shit to it as I progressed (more reps, more exercises)

5x5 is a pretty good rep range for increasing weight every week on big lifts like skwat and bench