Why no love for the overhead press?

because anyone who seriously over head presses for max weight has some ridiculous fucking bent over form

cause it's fucking hard

I love the OHP and its easily my strongest lift, think I might have some favourable leverages

72.5kg ohp
42.5kg each hand db bench
110 kg squat
145kg dl

Because its a meme lift that ends up being a standing bench press

? how can u say ohp is you're strongest lift when you clearly squat & dl more

honestly? I think it's hard to e-stat them. soy boys get stuck at 100lbs and give up on it. I'm about to hit 125lbs 5x5 and i think they feel great when i do them.

i think the over benching thing came from football programs but OHP is great too.

because fuck that lift (I do it anyway)

>plateaud on ohp
>deloaded slightly
>start making gains
>nearly reach lmao1pl8
>so close i can taste it
>reach it
>RIP left shoulder because my form started becoming shit due to sacrificing it for higher weights

This lift fucks with me mentally.

you can "cheat" them too by arching your back and and rocking or bouncing to get out of the start position. I do both sometimes and sometimes i do them strict. either way, picking up a lot of weight over your head is a good strength builder.

Personally, I think you should mention how you do them. Doing them from the clean feels like a totally different lift to me that doing them from a rack due to the hand position.
From the rack I use the same width as my bench; pinkie on ring. From a clean, it's much further in and I have less starting power unless I push press or jerk it

...

When you get your bench past babby weight OHP becomes redundant if not harmful to your shoulders. A 3+ plate bench works the front delts harder than your babby OHP and the work capacity is better saved for more bench reps than OHP. OHP is a garbage exercise for everything but front delts. For traps the weighted stretch on rack pulls and deadlifts poops on OHP. The lateral delt is barely used on OHP and it's a tiny muscle that responds better to high reps. For serratus anterior work I'd much rather get more back work in the pullovers. People are mistaken about the effectiveness of SA on pullovers. While there's minimal SA contraction, there's a powerful weighted stretch of it in the pullover hence why guys like Ronnie Coleman built massive wings with it in spite of evidence seemingly proving to the contrary. And pullovers work the Lats of course and are an accessory to bench press because it builds pecs and improves shoulder mobility.

tldr OHP is a tryhard lift.

>citing roiders on a mostly natty board
Show me a natural lifter, with good shoulders, who doesn't do OHP

yahoo! joe defranco

But doesn't OHP help keep your shoulder "healthy" when you're benching all that weight? Same with facepulls.

Shoulder accessory work keeps your shoulder healthy. OHP adds more wear and tear especially if you aren't genetically blessed with the proper acromion type for heavy OHP.

>you're strongest lift

ayy mate...

And that's why your warmups & cooldown on any day you press or bench should be rotator cuff work.
No amount of accessory work is going to save you from egolifting on accessories just to prove that's better than a compound lift.

How new are you? There are frequent threads dedicated to The Press™

I do OHP twice a week. On "chest day" moreso than bench. Hits most of the same muscles.

>a 3+ plate bench
Oh so in like 8 fucking years I won't need to do OHP if I'm lucky? Gee thanks.

>because everyone is obsessed with appearance

You're a shitlord if you don't think OHP does anything for "appearance"

OHP builds boulder shoulders. OHP also helps build your core (primarily the obliques) bc you're holding a heavy-ass weight above your head

>standing bench press
>no bench involved

>OHP builds boulder shoulders
then why does almost everyone i see at the gym overhead pressing look like a fucking DYEL?

the chads with boulder shoulders are all doing seated DB press and lateral raises

t. phd in broscience

wow nice anecdotal evidence

then let's see your non-anecdotal evidence of OHP being absolutely essential for "boulder shoulders"

I'm sure you've done extensive studies that reveal that vertical pressing doesn't build shoulder muscle
these are the people giving advice on this board

Because it fookin ruins your shoulders. Prefer dumbbell OH.

i'm not Not sure what gym you're lifting at m8, but at my PL gym, I see all the huge lads work OHP all the bloody time

it sure does build the front delts

you know, the most irrelevant head of the delt for aesthetics due to its position on your body and the one that gets hit by any other pressing variant you do

sure as fuck doesn't hit side delts or rear delts anywhere near adequately so it's redundant if you already do a lot of horizontal or incline pressing volume

i do 5x5 with 105 lbs.

any tips on how to get better?
i do it the first lift on my shoulder/legs day of a PPL routine.

on a flat bench i could do 5x5 with 225.

this means i have a weak OHP right?

>sure as fuck doesn't hit side delts or rear delts

Indirectly, it does. I'm absolutely shocked how many people on this board think OHP does not hit lateral or rear delts. If your form is perfect, you can get indirect stimulation of all deltoids.

Supplement with facepulls, and you have yourself a good looking shoulder.

DB lateral raises serve no purpose from a functionality standpoint

what you quoted to misconstrue my point:
>sure as fuck doesn't hit side delts or rear delts
what i actually wrote:
>sure as fuck doesn't hit side delts or rear delts anywhere near adequately

it hits side delts and rear delts, but nowhere near hard enough to be considered a primary exercise for them - you will always be limited by your front delts on OHP before your side delts or rear delts get anything resembling a decent stimulus

>lateral raises serve no purpose from a functionality standpoint
the function is getting nice juicy side delts

i have never once in my life seen a decent set of shoulders built without lateral raises of some sort, and any bodybuilder would laugh at someone trying to develop their shoulders to the fullest without doing them

how the fuck is that even possible

my first time overhead pressing in a year I was able to get ~70% of my bench 1rm

Yeah, it does, I'm just surprised you can't OHP more purely based on your bench numbers. Is it possible your front delts are still fried from bench? I find it hard to figure out when to add OHP in, where do you think I could in here?

I don't think it's "absolutely essential", dont put words in my mouth. I don't think any exercise is "essential" for hypertrophy (strength is a different story) because for muscular hypertrophy to occur, you have to induce fatigue through training stress significant enough to disrupt homeostasis and trigger muscle protein synthesis. It doesnt really matter what exercises get you there, as long as you're there.
That being said, efficiency comes into question when considering exercise selection for hypertrophy. The reason vertical pressing is more efficient than doing front delt isolation, lat delt isolation, and rear delt isolation, is because overhead barbell press induces more stress in a shorter amount of time, thus allowing you to induce more fatigue. (Heavier weights+greater ROM=more stress) the only issue with just relying only on vertical pressing is that the rear delts only work isometrically at lockout, but as long as you're doing upper back exercises you'll be good.
I think the reason you don't see more people overhead pressing is not because it doesn't work it's just that the lift has fallen out of style.

another broscientist. If your OHP doesn't doesn't "hit your lateral delts enough" then you're pressing the bar in front of your face instead of in a vertical line.

Sorry, I misquoted you then. My bad

>then you're pressing the bar in front of your face
as opposed to no-clipping it through your head? pissening

Too many risks compared to the benefits. Even the deadlift with shitty form has way less risks than the OHP.

no. most guys who press are afraid to lean back so they end up shoving it in front of their face and end up having to pull it back at the top, using basically only their front delts. The most mechanically effecient way to press is to lean back a little by pushing your hips forward, just enough to allow the bar to clear your face, and readjust as soon as the bar is over your head, allowing you to use your lateral delts

Have had a nagging 2/10 pain in what seems to be the rotator cuff of my right shoulder ever since I threw my arm out in HS baseball about 6 years ago. Not unbearable but often gets aggravated when performing heavy bench and bench only (doesn't hurt with OHP or facepulls).

Would pic related be a good investment, or is that type of sleeve unhealthy for my shoulder function in the long run?

>lean back a little

the virgin lean back a little
the chad spiral

not worth doing from clean position. if you're going to, just go heavier and push press it. push press is underrated as an accessory to ohp here, hardly see people posting about it.

And if you watch videos of layback presses, you'll notice that the bar doesn't have any real speed until it is vertically positioned over the shoulder joint, or, when the lateral delts come into play the most

I get terrible shoulder pain when overhead pressing

Shake you head. OHP is a standard lift for power lifters. Just because its not a competition lift means nothing its an absolutely critical development lift for power lifters.

then you were 100% doing it wrong

OHP is and has always been one of my favorite lifts.

> it's effective
> it looks impressive
> it feels awesome to do
> if you fuck up you don't get decapitated and don't get sent to snap city

and best of all

> as soon you reach failure, you KNOW it. there's no chance you're gonna manage another rep without severely break form. no other lift is like this to me.

>its an absolutely critical development lift for power lifters.
no it isn't

youtube.com/watch?v=scraw-PKYn8
youtube.com/watch?v=y_gYOP32THs

it can be a very valuable tool if you happen to have a front delt weakness holding you back, or trouble keeping your scapula pinned, but if you don't have these issues it's super unlikely that you are going to see significant carryover

I dropped 120 bucks on two sessions with a coach and focused entirely on shoulder work and proper form, I still get shoulder pain.

Bull fucking shit. Just as an ancedote, I had a homeboy that pressed only for years. He'd hit 225x5. (lifted alone with only squat stands) When he got a bench setup, his 1rm was over 300 first go. Delt and tri strength is crucial to bench.

Guess what else trains the delts and triceps and is far more specific to the bench?

Hint: it's bench

yeah, obviously working up to a strong OHP will make your bench better if you literally don't bench at all

but if you're an actual powerlifter you've been hammering bench for years, OHP is not going to magically make it shoot up unless you have weak front delts and you would be better off with more bench press and bench press variation volume

OHP as an assistance lift to the bench is very individual and saying something like "it's an essential lift for all powerlifters" is just fucking retarded

What are some good videos on form?

I get really paranoid about not fucking up my back or shoulders and want to make sure I'm doing it right

>doesn't understand the concept of assistance work and variations that over emphasize specific muscle groups used in a larger compound movement

>doesn't understand there's a volume limit on benching because of shoulder and elbow stress and press is one of the heaviest movements that's good for instead of bad for the shoulders

Wanna know how i know you'll never make it?

then you're a gullible loser who bought a shitty coach. What exactly was causing the pain? Shoulder impingement? Because it is ANATOMICALLY IMPOSSIBLE for the properly performed overhead press to cause impingement

dont worry, 99% of the people in this thread wont ever go past baby weights on the OHP

>doesn't understand the concept of assistance work being specific to the weaknesses of the individual lifter
>doesn't understand the concept of front delts not always being the weak link in a bench press
>doesn't understand why he's a brainlet for saying "OHP is essential for all powerlifters" despite many of the best bench pressers in the world doing no overhead pressing at all

>volume limit on pressing due to elbow stress
>switches to another press
You don't just throw in random ass lifts and call it assistance. Assistance is there to specifically target weak points so if you don't have weak delts then there's no point adding OHP.

If your triceps are giving out you're better off doing CGBP anyway since it's more specific.

I'm up to a 495lb bench press and I do zero overhead pressing work because I just don't need to.

>No amount of accessory work is going to save you from egolifting on accessories just to prove that's better than a compound lift
lolwut
how do you go from accessories to egolifting on accessories? it's about the right tool for the job and OHP is a poor choice most of the time.

You have obviously spent 0 time around power lifters in a power lifting gym.

Go play in traffic.

mfw none of my lifts are 3 digits in terms of KG

>hurr durr ohp is shit, bench does the same better
>can't lift babby weight on ohp
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

>not training a lift makes you worse at it
whoa.....

What're the strength standards for OHP? I just reached one plate

Front raises, lateral raises, curls rear delt flies; watch most people do them and you'll see worse egolifting than a two person team bench (aka the row spotter)
When you swing a weight around on accessories where you aren't meant to be swinging it, something will go wrong eventually. Granted that the worst case of accessory egolifting is the curl, but the more you rely on accessories for your weekly volume the more likely you are to break down there.
Getting towards your antipathy for OHP, either you egolift on isolations because you're crap at OHP, you claim to have the wrong mobility/anthropotomy for OHP but can somehow do the all the isolations without issue ( which proves you're wrong), or you roid and do a few fluff sets 1-2x/week

Go read something other than the supermarket fitness rags.
Guess how old school lifters and gymnasts work? Lots of compounds including on overhead work
Guess how modern lifters (including strongmen) train? Tons of compound work, including overhead. This is doubly true for strongmen/highland games athletes; go look at the non-SHW weight classes, even in regional comps, and tell me they got those shoulders avoiding some kind of overhead work
Guess how supplemented bodybuilders train? Like you advocate

OHP is my favorite fuckin lift

lockout pose is the universal body language for victory and triumph

if you do not OHP you are not a winner

one plate is decent

one plate for reps is good

two plate is great, 99th percentile easily

anything above two plate is amazing

(this is all *strict* OHP, none of that push press pansy bullshit)

If you're strict pressing 135lb/60kg for sets of 5-8, that would be unusual at a chain gym and everyday common at a serious iron gym
Bump that to 185lb/85kg and you're rarely going to see that at a commercial gym.

thumbless grip boysssss

>there are people who lift weights stupidly therefor you should ohp
lol ok

Thanks guys

reading comprehension
>there are people who lift weights stupidly therefore you should superset laughing at them and ohp

Tfw reached lmao1pl8 in 3 months, strict form