Now that the dust has settled...which is better?

STOP WITH THE MEME

They are both shit so what's your point?

Strong lifts because power cleans aren't necessary if you just want to get into good shape.

there is friendo
>httpsCOLON/SLASHSLASHstrongliftsDOTcomSLASHappsSLASH

What does Veeky Forums recommend to a beginner then, SS to (insert program) or SL to (insert program)? There's always gotta be that base routine when you're a DYEL, not some split. Curious to see what Veeky Forums thinks.

just do something you fucking nigger
pick one and stick to it for a month

But you have to pay $10 for the warmup calculator. Is it even worth it?

>what novice programs should you use if oyu aren't a novicie?

So for stronglifts are you supposed to be adding weight each set? How much if so

i paid the 10 buck cuz it let me re arrange the program and number of sets, etc...

I use the app to do Greyskull tho...

Veterans need to progress too, right. What's the most common routine that most people do when SS doesn't turn up results

5 lb.

I don't know why people stopped suggesting here to read the sticky but I'll just go ahead and restart it.

>STICKY

Its not gonna make a difference down the line

The actual SS is better.

Phase I -- the first few weeks, until the Deadlift is well ahead of the Squat
A: Squat 3x5, Overhead Press 3x5, Deadlift 3x5
B: Squat 3x5, Bench Press 3x5, Deadlift 3x5

Phase II -- the next few weeks, until the Power Clean form looks good
A: Squat 3x5, Overhead Press 3x5, Deadlift 3x5
B: Squat 3x5, Bench Press 3x5, Power Clean 5x3

Phase III -- however long it takes until you start stalling out on lifts
A: Squat 3x5, Overhead Press 3x5, Deadlift 3x5
B: Squat 3x5, Bench Press 3x5, Back Extensions 3x10, Chins 3xMax
C: Squat 3x5, Overhead Press 3x5, Power Clean 5x3
D: Squat 3x5, Bench Press 3x5, Glute Ham Raise 3x10, Pullups 3xMax

Advanced Novice
Squats - make Wednesday a light day of 2x5 at 60-80% of Monday; also possibly 1x5 with 2x5 at 90% on Monday and Friday
Chins and Pullups - if getting more than 10 reps on all sets, add weight every other session of each, target 5-7 reps
Bench Press and Overhead Press - try making progress at 3x3
Power Cleans - try making progress at 4x2

Total program should be complete in 3 to 9 months at maximum.

Shit, you niggers can't do simple math?
Do 1-2 sets of 5-10 with the bar to loosen up.
Do 2-5 warmups after that, you know how many you tend to need, at first you'll probably only do 1 but by the time you're Deadlifting 300lbs you might want to be doing 2 or 3 at least. Start with sets of 5 and ramp it down.
Split the weight to be added to the bar into rough amounts. Deadlift 300lbs? I like 3 warmups? 255lbs / 4 = about 65lbs added each time.
>1-2x5-10 with the bar
>1x5 with 110lbs
>1x4 with 175lbs
>1x3 with 240lbs
>working set with 300lbs
It's pretty fucking easy.

>Greyskull
LOL at "legend of he-man" named after a kid's cartoon and "created" by "johnny paaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiiin" the infamous "strength villain"

You do know that he actually did SS as his first program, right?

Yeah he used to hang out on the SS forum boards and ask questions about programming. You can still find him in the archives if you look.

SS

>I refuse to do power cleans

Why?

Do SS until you reach failure. Then take an honest look at yourself, catalogue all the things you almost certainly did wrong the first time through (didn't eat, didn't sleep, didn't get lifting shoes, didn't use a belt, didn't have the first fucking clue how to do the lifts correctly, etc), then drop all the weights by 25% and LP back up, doing it right this time. All this MIGHT take six months, probably more like four, and you'll be primed to take advantage of smart intermediate programming or 5/3/1

Why do women ruin their bodies with tattoos

>then drop all the weights by 25% and LP back up, doing it right this time.
T H I S
this is fucking important, ok
personally i'd drop more than 25% to allow for more accumulated fatigue to dissipate, but anyway, an average non-geneticlet can easily get 1.5/3/4/5 by doing what figgyboy said

>5/3/1
wendler's shit is a ripoff, and ball-less, don't do it, do bfs bigger faster stronger instead

bfs bigger faster stronger is a program that's been around since 1976 and wendler lifted using it when playing football, it's used by thousands of high schools and hundreds of colleges nationwide
weeks go 3x3, 5x5 (3x5 if you are short on time), 5-4-3-2-1 (5-3-1 if short on time), and 10-8-6 (4-4-2 for the clean and deadlift), last set is always amrap
standard bfs doesn't use percentages it uses a logbook and you chase rep records or total weight used record, doing it this way enables real autoregulation from set to set via weight selection
they sell coaching tools that use aggressive percentages for the main lifts (78%, 82%, 86% for 3x5)
they use 3x/week mwf two main lifts a day, usually squat and bench, clean and deadlift, and then squat and bench variants on the third day like box squat or front squat and towel bench (essentially a board bench) or close grip bench on the third workout
then aux lifts usually 2-5 of them usually 2x10
tues and thurs are conditioning and sprints etc.

so you can see that wendler pinched it directly
took the short workout and changed the week order
put a very ball-less south of vag deload week where the higher rep week was
you only do one main lift a day i mean how low-intensity is that?
used some very easy ramping for the sets (65%, 75%, 85% for 3x5) so that the first two sets of the workout are worth far less
used a stupid 90% training max so that the "workout" is two easy warmups and a high-rep burnout set (59%, 68%, 77% for "3x5")
now it's "auxiliary lifts: the program" because when you only do one set of one main lift each day then you need lots of auxiliary volume or you need gimmicks like first set last and joker sets to compensate

>Deadlift 3x5

Where did you get this? Because it obviously wasn't from SS: The Book.

>personally i'd drop more than 25% to allow for more accumulated fatigue to dissipate,

Not a bad option, but dropping too much weight can lead to a period of time where one is accomplishing pretty much nothing as the weight is too light to cause progress. It's not crippling in an LP though, when you'll be back to useful weights pretty quickly regardless.

>wendler's shit is a ripoff, and ball-less, don't do it, do bfs bigger faster stronger instead

That's why I said "smart intermediate programming OR 5/3/1." 5/3/1 is for tards.

>Where did you get this? Because it obviously wasn't from SS: The Book.

That was obviously a typo. It's 1x5 plus warmup sets.

It doesn't fucking matter, pick one, eat a lot, sleep a lot, don't add a load of bullshit accessories that aren't part of the program, and if you're skinny, eat even more. Get yourself up to 1/2/3/4pl8 for 3x5 (1x5 Diddy) or whenever your linear progression ends then self-evaluate your goals. As a novice, recovery is insanely quick; so don't waste this opportunity to pack on a shitload of muscle. Go add hypertrophy later (even so, you will still end up looking aesthetic, I did, just know when to reign in the bodyfat.

This is pretty much in the Sticky.

If I absolutely had to go on way or the other I'd go SS and buy practical programming to boot. If you want a template that you can just follow through SL to end with madcows that requires no thought, then SL is the one for you.

SL, but Squats 3x5 instead and add chin-ups on deadlift day

>What's the most common routine that most people do when SS doesn't turn up results

If you're not experiencing "results" on SS as a novice you're either doing it wrong, have unreasonable expectations of what you can do or have some underlying medical problem like rock bottom T that only a doctor can help you with.

The best program is the one you can do and convince yourself to continue doing.

As a novice you can go into the gym and throw kettle balls around, roll around ontop of tires and do weighted twirls for a 1.5 hours every other day and fall fast first into insane gains.

Program is not nearly as important as commitment and consistency, at least for a newbie who is NOWHERE near their genetic potential.

GZCLP

5 for bench, squat and rows.
10 for deadlift

you can use strong app, for tracking and remember to add weight as i mentioned.
warmupreps.com can show you the sets, weight and plate load
i prefer: empty bar x10, 30%x5, 60%x3, 90%x1, working sets

i like its progression and that's less aggressive than SS/SL (weekly weight increase)

Unironically 5/3/1.
A beginner should learn how to work with percentages, how to do conditioning, how to do AMRAP sets, and how to do something that isn't an LP.
>Muh lifts will go up too fast for much TM
That's what the AMRAP sets are for. If you're strong enough to bench 2pl8, you'll still get a training stimulus from benching 135 for a set of 20. It'll be endurance and work capacity, but it's still useful.

the problem with these programs is that novices expect to look aesthetic when they finish it
both are good

>Squatting every workout
Both suck. If I had to pick, SL.

Try actually reading the StrongLifts website and do the best version of their routine.

>see pic

stronglifts.com/5x5/#Assistance_Work

I wouldn’t reccomend using a training max for a beginner, though. Unless previously athletic, they’re already too weak to push weights and get a size/strength stimulus. The endurance stimulus is useful, however it’s a shitty endurance stimulus, that’s why you preform conditioning; strength and conditioning work addresses all muscular adaptations which youcan train simultaneously as a begginer. Also, I didn’t like how non-specif most of the work was. Changing the repition scheme from week to week based on significant increases in my ability to push a similar weight for more repetitions made the volume/intensity modifications over the course of my mesocycle extemely volatile. In retrospect, if progression was autoregulated, then a more cknsistent stimulus for size/strength adaptions would have been presented, and I would’ve made more gains than squatting my top set for 28 repetitions

What numbers does SS usually get one up to?

do SL like this post

SL workouts take like 45mins max

This is the real SS.

see

Ive been doing SS advanced but I have my bench and press on different days, is that bad?

Atm I’m doing

A
Squat 3x5
Bench 3x5
Deadlift 1x5

B
Squat 3x5
Press 3x5
Chins 3xMax

I also do some bicep curls, tricep extenons and Lateral Raises at the end of each workout

Why you want shitty routine?
>not use gslp
>never gonna make it

Between those two SS.
Barbell rows don't stress you much. You can also do them after your squats, bench, and deadlift/pc. There's nothing magical to rows. Might as well do dumbbell rows instead.

Power cleans on the other hand make you stronger faster and contribute to deadlift and squat which also makes you stronger faster.

3x5 is also more sustainable than 5x5.

Neither. Do GSLP with the upper-body lifts at 5x5 because they can handle more volume. This is the GOAT beginner routine.

>3 minute rests not including warm ups

you're gonna stall way quicker if you actually do this

Just going to shove this in here because I don't want to start a new thread.
Yes I've checked the sticky, No it doesn't seem to fit what I'm looking for.

There's several basic exercises I'm going for to do mainly upper body. I'm not particularly concerned about legs or core, I can do squats and leg raises all day for that. I'm not looking to be Bulk McHugePecs, I just need to up my overall strength. These are all free weights, I like weights, I don't have to go hunting for a particular machine, I can just pick these up and get going.

That said, I've got Deadlift, Chest press, Bench press, Dumbbell curls, Shoulder press and Pullups. How should I arrange them into a basic AxBxA week to get the best out of them. Are there any I'm missing that I can throw in there.

I'm doing that cookie cutter SS that does that swap. I'd like to try my hand at power cleans too. But aren't PC's in SS because of the idea that you will die if you do more than 5 reps of DL in a week. And isn't the PC just a explosive DL combined with front squat? So then there is no upper back really being hit in the program without the swap then, right?

>3 minute rests
I rest one min thirty seconds

If by stall, you mean no longer having a linear progression of weight, isn't the opposite true. Shortening rests improves conditioning more and strength less than longer rests.

>tfw too fat to do chinups and dips

I'm losing it but still not quite there yet

>isn't the PC just a explosive DL combined with front squat
no

Cookie cutter SS has you deadliting 3x a week. Then when you can't sustain that you add power cleans. Then when you can't sustain that you add weighted chins.

SS with isolation accessories > GLSP with squats first bench second deadlift third > SS > Stronglifts > Blahashit/GLSP

Those routines have a pathetic amount of volume, 5 sets of 5 lmao enjoy no gains

> Less aggressive
You mean slower and less efficient. Novices can progress every session, if you're progressing only once a week you're wasting time

I rest like 30 seconds

But SL does increase the weight every session..?
It's as if none of you have actually read the program and those that have glanced at it think their base program is all it is then complain about lack of arms when they have a better version that also includes arms as someone posted here;