Give me one reason why should i do deadlift when this exercise is 10 times better and safer for your lower back...

why are you saying those are the easiest lifts?

Litle to no lat engagement

Because they just are.

I deadlifted incorrectly for years, then I gave up on it because is was just too hard and dropped it.

Then one day I found a deadlift explanation video on youtube, I then applied that knowledge and tried deadlifting again using the proper technique, and suddenly it was 10000x easier and I finally "got it".

So that means you got DL wrong for years, then eventually you learned and it got easier?

Easy is when even a moron can figure it out by himself. Obviously with the correct information any person will get it.

how do you not figure out that shit? Usually the body is pretty good at finding the best form for you.
A lot of the advice I see on the internet doesn't make sense to me, so I just started doing what felt natural and I've never had problems.

my lower back is fucked so i do these instead of deadlifting aswell, theyre ok but obviously not as good.

>hating on based extensions
y'all do know that these are a GOAT exercise used by Veeky Forums's "muh powerlifter" and "muh strongman" ?
they're not just some gimmicky crossfit stability ball bullshit

Doing 1 simple thing wrong can make a lift for excruciatingly awkward and awful to perform. This in turn leads to people giving up on the lift.

You will actually also find that when you begin performing a lift properly, that your strength actually increases easier. Performing it incorrectly can lead to stalls because doing it incorrectly can create weak-points in the lift.

If you never engage your hamstrings properly, you get constant issues with the lower back. As you increase the weight the lower back can no longer perform properly and your strength stalls very early on because your body simply cannot keep increasing strength when certain muscle groups arent being used properly in the lift. This is THE exact reason why people stall at like 2 plate squat, 3 plate deadlift, those are about as high as the body will allow without all muscle groups being used. You will find that stalling point to be around 4 plate squat, and 5 plate deadlift, if the lifts are performed correctly.

>because it doesn't fuck your cns
this is a good thing
>and work out your forearms
deadlift is a piss poor forearm workout, any row or weighted pullup/chinup or even curl is incomparably better
>lats
see above
>hammies, glutes
there we go you finally got something right
>quad
conventional deadlift will do fuck all for your quads

t. 515 @ 182 conventional deadlift (not really that impressive)

to everyone else who reads this

if you don't enjoy deadlifting don't fucking do it, don't fall for internet memes, no single exercise is necessary unless you intend to compete in powerlifting or strongman, if you just train to look good and be generally strong you can easily get there without ever doing a deadlift in your life

I agree but you forget one thing; motivation.

Most people will not stay motivated in the long-term for just 1 reason (looking good). Its a good idea to have other goals in the gym to keep things interesting.

BP, SQ, DL, OHP, those lifts are good to do, purely for the sake of having lifts to compare others and progress on.

nothing will bury someone's motivation (especially a relatively new lifter) faster than doing something they absolutely hate because the internet told them they have to

Never gonna make it just quit now fatty

I did bro splits from age 16 to 19, i quit because i got bored as fuck with random fluff n pump training.

I started lifting again at 24, and I started off with the bro splitting again, pump n fluffing, then after 2 years I realized it was boring again, then I started a full body routine focusing on the compound lifts and suddenly the gym became interesting again, now I'm 32 and still love lifting more than ever, thanks to full body routines and compound lifts.

I still do accessory/isolation work after my compounds, but the point of having the progress on compounds being there, not randomly lifting random shit, it makes it far more enjoyable.

>spinal flexion
>hyperextending your back
I seriously hope you don't deadlift like that.

if you had done the opposite you would be bored as fuck with muh compounds

i know because that's what i did, and ended up having more fun moving into training for size

also you can track progress on shit like db bench db shoulder press etc anyway so you get the same objective feedback that you are making gains

I said I still do fluff n pump with accessories/isolations after my compounds. Im just saying full body training focusing on the main 4 compounds is what made the gym far more enjoyable because the progress is objective and accurate, not subjective and random.

If your lower back hurts during deadlifts your form is trash.

OP is right and the Big 3 are complete shit. A necessary evil if you compete in PL, but shit nonetheless.

And yeah, backlifts will give you rock hard, hilariously powerful spinal erectors, glutes and hams. There's a reason weightlifters prefer them to deadlifts.

my lower back hurt

Best lifts? Yes. Easiest lifts? No.

I unironically find squatting 140kg x 10 easier than DB curling 20kg x 10.

what is the difference between this equipment and a roman chair? Is being parallel more difficult/better?

this got me thinking
I've got something weird with my back where I've never been able to do a full forward bend, my hands won't go any further than my knees, even when I was quite flexible as a kid. can deadlifts be dangerous in my situation?

>progress is objective and accurate, not subjective and random.

progress is objective and accurate in bodybuilding type training

if your incline bench has gone from 225x3x10 to 240x3x10 you have made objective, measurable progress

relying only on the mirror and measurements is foolish, you track lifts just as you would with pseudo-powerlifting routines, the only difference is the exercise selection and rep ranges (generally)

As far as your spine is concerned the deadlift is an isometric lift. If you're flexing or extending your spine you're doing it wrong. Enjoy your herniated discs.

OP's suggested lift intentionally trains spinal motion patterns rather than isometric holds. Don't train motions that aren't useful. Only if you deadlift incorrectly would you do that, it's literally worse than deadlifting.

hmmm I see, this is good. what about the tendons in my knees?

deadlifts really don't stress your knees man

I fucking hate back extensions.

>he thinks deadlifts look cool

If you wanna look cool just do heavy OHP and curls

It's your body, do what you want buddy.

if your lower back hurts, you're not using proper form.
it's a complimentary exercise but, even if weighted, won't be comparable to a deadlift, not in the slightest.
it's called "roman chair"
it's a roman chair. for some reason the fag isn't locking both his ankles, but still.

Deadlift is a compound, while back extensions are an isolation.
If the exercise is safer while working the same muscles, you are just not using the same weight. Do a 200kg back extension and then come back to tell me it's safer. You can just deadlift baby weights if that's your issue, faggot.

repeated spinal flexion is bad for your low back.

Good goy

how does an exercise with minimal knee extension requirements stress the knees

please tell me

because if your knees hurt on deadlifts, i fucking guarantee you cannot do any type of squatting or leg press because your knees must be so degenerated they're basically just bone

How exactly do I engage my hamstrings when diddling? I feel it more in my quads than anything when driving the bar off the floor and then my lower back when locking out.

no, it's not. It's ironical that you link an exrx image, where that myth is thoroughly debunked.
exrx.net/Questions/DangerousExercises.html#Incline
exrx.net/Questions/DangerousExercises.html#CableRow

Heavy deadlifts should only be done by people who enjoy doing heavy deadlifts. For someone that just wants to look good the aesthetic benefits are too small compared to the injury risk. On the other hand, I think that squats with good high bar form should be mandatory, as the leg press is a one way ticket to snap city compared to it.
Squats+Romanian deadlifts+back extensions/Glute ham raises are really all you might ever need for a good lower body.

Yes, it is and it has been clinically proven in a laboratory setting.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11114441/

Repeated spinal flexion is guaranteed to lead to disc herniation. It's only a matter of time.

It's not ironic that I linked a superior spine sparing erector spinae exercise.

I'm not surprised that you didn't read a single thing of what I linked, that reddit spacing is a clear giveaway.
I'm therefore not surprised at all that you can't grasp the difference between the single paper you propose and the articles (and relative papers) on exrx.

Nothing in your links contains a single valid point to counter the clinically documented research I posted.

Furthermore there's more such research to back it up.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11114441/

>reddit spacing
Try attending school and leaving Veeky Forums sometime you dumb kid it's called paragraphs and they've existed since formatting. The way you write looks like you have a mental disability and soon a blown out low back.

there's a Klokov vid where he recommends hyperextensions as a *warmup* before every workout, i.e. before you diddly and squat. It's great for activation for sure, but you can't replace a compound movement with it

These things primarily hit my hamstrings, lower back secondarily. Deadlifts are GOAT exercise.

idk, this feels weird, i used to think just like you, did this shit with 135 on me and felt my glutes and lower back burn but this shit looks terrible
i deadlift only 380lbs and everyone arround me mires me during the lifts, some pt frmo my gym told me "hey once i saw the plates on the bar i didn't thought you could lift this much, congrats man" i still don't know if it was good or bad thing to hear but yeah, deadlift looks awesome

your back is too close to a 90º angle, thats why you feel more on your quads, if you start at lower angle you'll feel more your hamstrings while locking your knees

Why would you train a movement pattern necessary for herniating discs in the first place? Better to simply train with isometrics - which is the way you naturally utilize those muscles anyway.

Same goes for crunches btw.

Either your reading comprehension is below first grade or you didn't read shit. I'm more prone to believe that you're mentally challenged, since you insist on this thing that has been debunked on exrx with clear, crystalline words and you're here mixing apples and oranges, frantically diving in papers you can't grasp or read.
Oh, and you're defending the most attention-whore formatting ever practised on a imageboard as well ("look at my one sentence paragraphs guys"). Pathetic.
There's not just a quantitative, but a _qualitative_ difference between "moving through the full range of a joint's motion" which is what "is recommended, yet not beyond" vs compressing your spine to support the lift per se. Also, "[i]ronically, splinting the lower back during all movements can lead to the degeneration of the joint structures of the spine "
That's more of the spoon feeding you deserved.

>naturally
joint motion is "natural".

this is also "roman chair"
this one can go parallel
is it better to go parallel?
can one design do something that the other cannot?
which one to buy?

>there's more such research
>same link
are you even trying

this one seems too hardcore for me
it seems to me that you have max resistance in starting and ending position whilst a 45° roman chair has max resistance in the middle of exercise
so it makes more sense, maybe?

this. if klokov told me that sucking dick is good for muscle growth i'd definitely start sucking dick, dude is a legend

Hyperextensions are a good exercise but not as good as deadlifts. Just do both.

>bending your spine isn't ever going to be useful

"Functional strength"

i'd hate to buy the 45 degree and then in 2 months find that its gotten too easy and have to start holding plates against my chest.

my thoughts are the 45 is for women to do meme shit on and the parallel is for men who actually want to get strong?

>joint motion is "natural".
Hyperextension and hyperflexion of the spine is not natural, especially when loaded and performed repetitively. The Valsalva maneuver exists for a reason and it's not so humans can bend their spines to and fro like a wacky waving inflatable arm-flailing tubeman.

Just do less deadlifts m8.
As weight goes up you should be doing less anyways, the back stress isn't good.
However the workout is still more effective.
>itt faggots who don't understand moderation

>look at my one sentence paragraphs guys
It's funny how you're focusing on this so much instead of the embarrassingly retarded argument you've made. Yes, one sentence paragraphs are a thing. This is basic formatting and you, being an uneducated retard who lives on Veeky Forums and reddit, isn't aware of it.

>[i]ronically, splinting the lower back during all movements can lead to the degeneration of the joint structures of the spine
This is not ironic nor is it comparable in any way. It's a misleading misconception perpetuated by people who lack basic reading comprehension skills. A neutral spine is always stronger and better suited to lifting. What retards like you commonly conflate is the fact that even with a neutral spine, if you place enough compression on it, it can still herniate. This too has been documented by McGill and others in a clinical setting. For example if you deadlift with a shitload of weight, your spine may still herniate even with absolutely perfect form, because sufficient compression and shear can cause some spines to herniate, no matter how much they've adapted. This is due to the genetically determined shape of the discs in the spine. Ovoid shaped discs are better at bending and twising and are for example less likely to herniate under repeated spinal flexion but will herniate much faster from heavy compressive loads, eg deadlift. Source:ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20357638

do it for him
youtube.com/watch?v=ZWUcHKAj_tc

It's not just that it's not functional it's that you're training a movement pattern which is deleterious to actual lifts. I'm saying don't train it because it's not functional, I'm saying train it isometrically because that's they way you will always use it.

I copy pasted the wrong link

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24503692

Because you need to buy an expensive meme machine to do that.

That's a terrible idea for all purposes other than being someone who only deadlifts. Having a strong yet flexible lower back is far more useful for everyone from regular Joe's to any athlete than specific training for deadlifting.

Nice that you believe that enjoying full joint motion isn't natural.

You can't be helped, still mixing apples and oranges, on top of that you're an insufferable redditor. I even spoon-fed you, but you can't grasp it. What you link is unrelated (it seems to me an even more pathetic attempt at goal-shifting, pretending I was >implying something more than needed) and if anything supports the qualitative difference between supporting a lift with your joints vs using your natural joint's motion (and surrounding muscle tissues).

>requires both flexion and an elevated rate of compression.
>both
>and an elevated rate of compression
It seems you didn't even read the abstract.

Name an advantage of a hyperflexible lower back?

you may be succesfull in sucking your own cock
no homo

>Nice that you believe that enjoying full joint motion isn't natural.
The prefix hyper means beyond normal limits by definition brainlet.

>You can't be helped, still mixing apples and oranges
No, I'm not. Back extensions are an exercise that involve repeated spinal flexion with elevated levels of compressive and shear forces applied to the spine. The information I've linked is exactly the type of exercise being referred to. You keep claiming "apples to oranges" then not making any argument whatsoever. Just like your retarded reddit spacing argument. You will continually attempt to add more retarded bullshit to your empty comments in hopes of perpetuating another worthless response for the next 100 posts. Get a friend, retard.

>requires both flexion and an elevated rate of compression
That's precisely what a back extension is. No additional compression, eg cat-camel exercise, is no elevated compression + flexion. Elevated compression + flexion/extension, eg back extensions is precisely what's being described in the research.

It's funny how you have routinely demonstrated the inability to form even rudimentary levels of reading comprehension yet feel motivated to continue shitposting with empty responses eg "hurrr apples to oranges hurr shifting goal posts". Learn to speak and read English before commenting, retard.

i though it was horrible for your back...

>some meathead used a catchy, incorrect, and over-exaggerated word when naming the movement.
>Body must adhere to this definition - acceptable range of motion reduced to compensate

Sure, you could do half a dozen isolations and variations of movements that mimic the deadlift but there is no reason not to just do the fucking deadlifts instead. Theyre far more efficient as far as time and effort go.

>not making any argument whatsoever
Plenty of articles and papers you didn't even read.
>what a back extension is
>a back extension creates an elevated rate of compression
I'd be surprised if you even have a gym subscription at this point.
>It's funny how you have routinely demonstrated the inability to form even rudimentary levels of reading comprehension yet feel motivated to continue shitposting with empty responses
That's you.
>You will continually attempt to add more retarded bullshit to your empty comments in hopes of perpetuating another worthless response for the next 100 posts. Get a friend, retard.
That's you again. Don't worry, this is the last (You). It can't be helped.
Are you for real.

>Plenty of articles and papers you didn't even read.
There's nothing in them to counter anything being posted. Furthermore the research I'm quoting comes largely from Stu Mcgill. He's considered a god on the topic of spinal research. You have no argument and nothing to backup your retarded shitposts. It's quite clear by now you're just trying to get replies because you're a loser and can't get anybody to respond to you without making intentionally retarded comments.

>misconception perpetuated by people who lack basic reading comprehension skills. A neutral spine is always stronger and better suited to lifting.
that was a quoted paragraph and no one challenged that a neutral spine is more suited for deadlift? I don't know man, are you even trying?

>sit ups and hanging leg raises are considered harmful

>[i]ronically, splinting the lower back during all movements can lead to the degeneration of the joint structures of the spine
Explain this comment then. Splinting is converse to flexion. Deadlift is a movement performed with a splinted neutral spine. Hence why it's used as an example. You sound like a complete retard now.

It's pretty simple really. You have enormous muscles in your legs, they're meant for lifting things. You have tiny muscles in your lower back, they're not, instead they exist to solidify the torso in conjunction with the abdominal muscles during the Valsalva maneuver. Why does the spine articulate then? To facilitate motion such as running in which the spine moves only a few degrees.

Hypermobility of the spine is irrational, it doesn't help perform any function. Only people who dogmatically subscribe to full range of motion flexibility ideologies or are bodybuilders believe in it. In the real world it has no benefit and there is evidence it is detrimental to fitness.

>compression
A back extension puts no compression on your back, especially if it's the type of back extension where your back is horizontal to the ground when at the top of the rep. This is basic physics, just think about it

>no reason not to just do the fucking deadlifts instead
how about not enjoying conventional deadlifts?

also needing 6 variations is an outright falsehood, you can replace the hamstring/glute/erector volume with any hip hinge exercise of your choosing

past that all the upperback/forearm/grip strength meme shit is super overblown, other exercises you already do (back work) are superior for that anyway and you are unlikely to notice any changes removing conventional deadlift

Wrong. See Hyperextensions increase the compression on the spine.

not him, idiot. Deadlift wasn't the discussed topic and that is an exerted paragraph, stating that splinting during ALL exercises can lead to degenerations of the joint structures. So you didn't even read those links, he's right I guess. No one would ever argue that deadlifting with a compressed spine is beneficial; somehow you insisted on this point, even it wasn't the original topic.

>implying I said you need a hyper flexible back

Enjoy snapping your shit at 40 when you try to tie your shoes.

don't bother, it can't be helped.

Monday: Deadlifts
Wednesday: Chin-ups and back extensions
Friday: Power cleans

Find a flaw

You’re going to need weight on both of them, and you hold it behind your head not into your chest for max resistance.

I appreciate the response.

>You have enormous muscles in your legs
4u

The function I wish to improve is the back-lever on gymnastic rings. I believe hyperextensions will help this, I have no interest in deadlifts unless they would have a greater carryover?

I just want a better backlever.

>splinting during ALL exercises can lead to degenerations of the joint structures
This is a statement unsupported by research. Low compressive load core strengthening exercises have successfully rehabbed countless world class athletes.

> No one would ever argue that deadlifting with a compressed spine is beneficial
You sound utterly confused. Deadlift compresses the spine no matter what. Depending on your spine this could be a good or bad thing.

How did they measure that compression?

nobody wants your "help", retard.

>somebody who deadlifts won't be able to tie their shoes
What planet are you on? My hamstrings are going to be plenty flexible and my spine will be well supported from all the isometric back training. You on the other hand are likely to bend at the waist as you've been practicing with hyperextensions and a disc popping out of your spine.

google deadlift spinal compression pdf