SS13: dorf WHEN edition

>[x1] [x2] [x5]
Yea, but what if you want 8? You'll still need to CRTL+F three times.
I want to eliminate having to search for an item more than once during every use cycle.

Shipping things without a crate gives you the points for them, it just also gives you a -1 point penalty for them being poorly contained.

Constructable smelters means science no longer has any need of cargo whatsoever.

The debuffs to mining gear just make mining more of a hassle than it already was.

The smelter has both automated and instant smelting, there isn't any real room to improve unless you "make room" by nerfing it so that you can "buff" it.

Resource rocks are a good idea, we need more variety in mineables (although a similar thing was already in the code as a side effect of my secret project).

I feel like getting rid of passive cargo points is essentially going to make cargo useless, because it has a very finite supply, and won't be getting more unless a specific job is done it's already much more resource-restricted than science, and it mostly serves only to further encourage cargo autonomy and working against the station (keep the ore you mine because you need it for points, demand things from people in exchange for doing your job).

You're very individualistic, so I guess it's too be expected, but you do realize that cargo is a part of the station, and not some external entity doing business with them, right?

>because it has a very finite supply
But you can get infinite points from sending back copies of manifests if centcom requests them. Just keep that shuttle moving to trigger the RNG.
Also: you can get more of whatever you can sell with the matter replicator. Planks now also give 0.2 points each and growing wood is hardly finite.

bump

>Matter bin: (Material amount): [x1] [x2] [x5] [Custom]
done, have that bit alongside the organization tabs

Why do that when you can just have a single value at the top that covers all the items in the machine?

The downside of this is that every option has to be checked for material availability, and the wildcard [custom] can't be checked at all.
You'd either get a message saying you can't afford to print 48 laser guns or the protolathe just stops making them after 3 while you ordered 27.
The downside to this solution is that you have to reset it after every item use, effectively forcing you to use an extra click after printing 20 matter bins.

One more click isn't that bad. Alternatively, it could reset to x1 each time, since most things will only be wanted one of?

bump

Come onto the server and try my fiendish puzzle.

sadly your fiendish puzzle is not long for this world.

the smelter feels better and i'd like to keep smelting and stacking seperate. With changes to the stacker you can have one stacker specifically make stacks of 50 and another only make stacks of 10 and so on, so if sorters are ever put in you can automatically send things that come in lesser supply like plasma down a path that only has a 5 count stacker instead of sending it all into a 50 count stacker and have to eject it. A bad reason but the redemption machine was just shoehorned in to force mining to cooperate with R&D if they wanted any payoff for actually mining unless R&D wanted to give them anything.
cargo doesn't really need passive income if they have mining and other things to do to make cash. Selling wood is probably lucrative enough at this point that they can easily buy whatever they want with a decent tower cap farm going.
>shipping without crates
and if you ship 100 1D bills back without a crate you get 10 points for the bills and -100 points for each bill being outside a crate. Getting penalized because you can't make a metal box is retarded.
>constructable smelters
science has never needed cargo
you have been able to smelt minerals using a welding tool since forever. Not that I really care about the cargo/science forced cooperation thing since in the end it just hurts both parties with how many times this doctrine has been attempted to be implemented.
>debuffs to mining gear
the only reason mining is a hassle is because the ship graveyard is impossible to mine in normally. Mining is no sweat on the mini asteroid and you can actually use a ripley. It's only a hassle if you let it be.
>Smelter
we're talking fully automated like "make alloys out of glass and plasma if both are available, otherwise just smelter each mineral into standard sheets". the thing can probably use a nerf anyways if they're going to be constructable since it can encourage you to set up more smelters.

>passive point removal makes cargo useless
cargo has plenty of ways to make monster points and even if mining is finite, mining can easily get you into the thousands of points. Passive point gain doesn't do anything but reward you for doing nothing which is why most people pick cargo instead of assistant because after they're done tooling up and stealing stuff, they can order the big guns with the points that accumulated over the past 30 minutes.
>the "cargo won't help people because cargo will always want points" argument
the same shit can be said about R&D in that they'll refuse to give out upgrades without demanding things from people, but they usually don't and you and I both know that. Not that anyone else on the station actually needs ore for any purpose besides science (engineering can't even use it since the pacman disappeared with a map change a while ago too).
>cargo is part of the station
cargo's job of crate pushing is a boring mess because all they have done up until this point is move crates and buy things for other people until the shuttle is called. Once you open all the gift boxes and figure out which ones are good and which ones you never need to buy there is nothing for you in cargo besides mining which can quickly become stale.
And, since we have a unique lack of players, cargo now does literally nothing since there's nobody to request anything. Giving cargo an industry-type mindset gives them a goal they can get to on their own, and the rest of the station has ways they can contribute to cargo's goal (since everyone has cash and people can reasonably get things that cargo wants) as a whole.

I don't really see how any of that actually gives an industry mindset. It's mostly just making them work harder to get what they would have already had. It's not giving them anything fun or useful to work for, if somebody likes to mine and build stuff, they'll do that anyways, but people who like to play cargo to experiment with stuff aren't going to be able to without spending their time farming wood or mining. People already don't like mining and only do it out of obligation.

The Ship Graveyard was at least an attempt to make mining more fun, and it resulted in people completely ignoring mining, and the same thing happens with Dorf, which probably speaks to the fact that nobody really fucking wants to mine. Making mining more tedious, taking away significant parts of cargo's utility, and forcing people to have to do specific things to even do the main thing that cargo is meant to do, it feels ultimately like an idea caught up in itself. It's ambitious to make people want to "be more industrious", but none of that is any of the fun part of industrialization.

>work harder to get what they already had
they shouldn't have had free crates in the first place. It's giving them the entire cargo console to work for. If people want to experiment with cargo, they can experiment with ways to make money. You don't need to commit to mining for more than ten minutes to bring in a hundered points worth of stuff. The only reason people don't like mining is because it's a shit chore that people only do so science might consider giving them something at some point in the future, or for points since thank heavens we let other minerals be shipped to centcom for cargo points.
>ship graveyard
I feel like the focus here wasn't mining at all but exploring, and since you insisted on doing a very scattered asteroid field there was literally no reason or need to mine and it only hurt people who actually wanted to mine since they pretty much had to use a jetpack. And the only reason there was any incentive to explore anything at all was because you scattered usually overpowered loot all over the place, so the place became way more about the loot (that was always in the same place enabling everyone to grab it first thing) and not at all about actually mining or even exploring. Not even mentioning the whole "lock the entire level into a floating unescapable box" thing.
>making it more tedious
cutting ore boxes down from "fucking infinity storage for no reason that has to be map spawned" to "fourteen satchels worth of storage that you can build or destroy" seems more like something that should have been done in the first place. Cargo's utility is just fine since they still have plenty of easy ways to make cash, none of this is an intense investment of time, and it's not like cargo's time isn't spent doing anything but either getting something to blast crates open or sitting at their desk for 15 minutes at a time. Nernums also wants most valuables to have a "value" var for cargo shuttle purposes so it won't stay "super specific things"

Well, I disagree at how it'll be received, but you'll do it anyways, and it's not like there's anyone to receive it, so it ultimately doesn't matter what I think.

...

I value your opinion.

Bump

happy tyrone day

>it's not like there's anyone to receive it
w-we'll get more players soon!

No we won't, we have a bunch of people who lurk on the threads and refuse to join the server, even when people are claiming they have 6+ people, which they almost always do. We have no players because our oldest players don't wanna play for whatever reason.

I've got papers, fucko.
Summer is coming.

bump

So to set the multiplication on the protolathe I need to use a form. Usually you can use links to send data to the function that deals with it. In this case I need some user input and popups are disgusting.
I can't for some reason get the styling to display the submit input the way I want to (spent some time on it and asked a few people for help). Should I be spending more time trying to get this right? Or would it be considered a waste of time?
Checked some other codebase and they don't style it at all, so I figure people don't care.

the size of the button looks fine but i'd probably change it to say "Enter" or something
its next to a number box so I wouldn't think anyone should have issues figuring it out

It's finals you cunts
I don't have the option of playing

might have to do with the status display div class that those kinds of menus use or something

life bump

bump

>Those categories
>That style
Ew
Ew ew ew ew
Make eyewear "wearable tech" and shove in with shit like BoHs, or put it in equipment, along with storage gear. Combine all those stock parts because you're forgetting about telecoms parts, change "power cells" to just "power", move the multiplier up below chemical volume, fix the buttons so they're not all bunched together.

its not that bad
miles better than what it was

Doesn't mean there not stil room for improvement.

no need to bash it so hard though

...

bamp

Do what Emiko said, but also take my overt and powerful approval.

>Ew
>Ew ew ew ew
This. Are you trying to enable shitter scrubs?
There was nothing wrong with it as it was. All you're doing is making it easy on the types of shitters that would select Captain or Cargo expecting to kill everyone immediately with no effort.

You should tone down how much ore someone can carry at once. Whether it's rebalancing the boxes to carry less or making satchels occupy a larger container size category is your call -- but someone should have to make more trips either way. It's more realistic in that regard, and will encourage building pipelines and such.

>simply improving the menu navigation
>somehow affecting shitter tactics
nigga you high or something? It's not exactly difficult to hit ctrl+f and type in "laser gun" and "hyper cell"

>printing cells from the protolathe
kek
There isn't any "wearable tech" other than the eye wear, that's why I decided to just do that. Same with "power", nothing fits in it except the cells.
>forgetting about telecoms parts
Nah, they're "Bluespace" and "Stock parts".
Did you really never have issues printing 9 pico manipulators, 13 super matter bins, 4 phasic scanning modules, etc.?

>not printing cells from a protolathe
where else am I gonna print them? The mecha fab takes longer even when fully upgraded.

at least you'll have high reliability

>muh reliability
I'll just throw a handful of cells into the protolathe and get 100% reliability cells, which the mecha fab can't produce.

>I'll just throw a handful of cells into the protolathe
I thought you said you didn't have time to wait for the mecha fab to print a cell?

>tag-based search
Nice.

never said I didn't have time, just that the protolathe is far more convenient in terms of speed. It's also not difficult to do a bit of prepwork before I actually need the cells.

This all seems unnecessary. It just kinda forces cargo techs to use the point abuse systems that a bunch already did. I can still just make a bajillion high potency mutant tomatoes and ship it off except now I can just make a crate for them if all of them are gone for some reason. Won't this just result in a Cargonian stealing the botanists job every other round?

I also didn't know the ship graveyard was an issue but I hate using Ripleys so maybe that has something to do with it..

How's this?
Grey = filter off
Blue = filter on

Looks much better, but I still think you could combine a few things, like equipment, eye wear, and storage gear, and just parts into one general category, which'd save space.

I think blue unselected, gray selected might be better, since the CSS usually uses a gray box for "unavailable". A check box next to a title, or a second list of dismissable active tags would be ideal, I think

I don't think you need to separate the parts by tier.

Finally, I'm pretty sure you could get away with "scanners and sensors" for the eye wear one, and that'd let you include the health analyzer, forensic scanner, GPS units, and "wearable", which would include bags, glasses, and any potential future wearable (which there will be).

>there are 3 columns
>there are tier 1, 2, 3 parts
>the tier parts are unaligned (i.e. aren't in a single row, preferably the top one)
0/10, apply yourself.

they're gone now anyway

You want me to sort the categories alphabetical or not at all?

that's what i've been aiming to try and do but with a duffel bag and a ton of satchels they can carry just about the same as an ore crate, But i'm also trying to avoid making mining tedium core.
>points abuse system
>shipping things that centcom may need to them for points is abuse of the system
??
Keep in mind botany isn't a deticated job on the station so anyone can do it. And even if there were botanists then they could set up a deal with cargo where they provide cargo with wood and cargo provides them with seeds or equipment.
there's a reason you never see anyone mine on the ship graveyard and that's because it's stupidly hard to navigate

Since cargo has fuck all to do really. why not make it Factorio Lite.

Have ground ore nodes that you need to conveyer out etc.

Alphabetical.
I still think the tier tag is pretty useful.
If it was my choice, I'd make the tier tags at the top, and the rest below in alphabetical order.

this is pretty much what i've been trying to do
factorio station 13 will let cargo or others set up infrastructure to make the big bucks

Yeah me too. But it does fill the UI with a bunch of extra buttons.
There''s not that many stock parts and you have the multiplier, so it's not that bad.

You can use reseach level filters too, I guess.

No
How would you imagine that implemented? A text field with an enter button next to it for every tech?

>what is booru tag search

I've always maintained that the mining level should have a large central asteroid, much like every other server's mining level, that feels something like space caves. Such as it is, too, with dwarf.
Then, outside the central asteroid are the scattered lumps, then the fence, then the graveyard - which should probably be more dangerous.

I know randomly assembled maps are finnicky bullshit, but I do think they're worth it in this case.

If this factorio-lite idea means that we also get ways of mining ore that isn't me running around with a bag and a pick, then I'm all aboard this ore-based cargo economy. Just don't make it so that if I want to do any cargo teching I have to spend most my time mining or botany-ing - if I can instead fuck with machines to get an automated mining setup going then fuck yes do it.

was looking at making mining drones maybe do some automated drilling of nearby rocks, but getting a ripley (which you can still buy from cargo) will help you speed up mining a lot more

Here's the real question:
What can be done to make Mining 'Borgs worth playing?

Make research require a fuckton of resources for everything then, so that they can't easily get a full stack of everything and make all the mechs and all the guns and all the shit.

possibly giving them some basic ability to set up mining infrastructure like conveyors or disposals
no im not fucking with research I don't care about the cargo/research forced cooperation thing

Do you care about the Research being an overpowered shitter magnet thing?

no because we all know it isn't and if it were that bad then we'd be banning people

I want to argue the cooperation thing, but I think both sides have made their cases already.
Oh astv. Banning you from cargo remains a hilarious and terrible bit of this debate.

I would think that constructing things like that would fall under Engineering module, but then the Engi borgs already have half of everything.
Maybe some kinds of improved mining and exploration equipment? A mining scanner that is always on when active? Adv. mesons?

borgs in general are an issue because they're not meant to operate without humans nearby, that's the entire reason they exist
if you take humans out of the equation borgs are helpless and that's part of their design. if anything i'd make it so mining borgs work better in tandem with humans, probably giving them more supporting things for miners than being able to be miners
>really bright spotlights
>area of effect mining scanner that shows ores to all nearby players
>cargo space for ores
>basic drill to help mine and defend with
stuff like that

bump

Do you know if directional lighting is going to be a thing with the new lighting system?
Setting up spotlights, but still being in the relative dark behind them, feels really useful.

the idea has been pitched around even before Veeky Forums split but in the end I think there was large opposition against it just because of how the game is set up, with a player in the center and you viewing everything around you

I don't think i'd mind it for flashlights and stuff though

>directional lighting is inherently bad because the viewpoint isn't directional
This feels like a really dumb arguement. I wouldn't say to make everything directional, but it's still a niche that would have good utility.

I think the last thing I saw about it was on Veeky Forums itself and players bitching and complaining about how they didn't want to have to micro manage what direction they were facing to get a look around them

but this would just mean we could make lanterns do a 270 degree or so lighting pattern while flashlights only do a cone

Completely unrelated question: does welding doors have a time delay yet?

no
welding doors is a fairly niche thing and I don't think it's ever really required a time limit since if someone's chasing you right behind you welding the door already requires you to manually close the door and then try to weld it

I've had more than one round where the last step to the drama was two people on both sides of a door counter-welding it furiously. As it can be instantly (un)done, there's little value to it, if anyone involved is carrying a welder.

If it had a time delay, it would make welding doors as preparation far more valuable - and put it even with essentially all other forms of construction and vandalism actions, which do not happen instantly.

but in the end I think you'd still have the same problem
one person on each end of the door trying to weld it open or closed except this time there's a short delay

>try to weld door shut
>can't weld door open while it's being welded
>oh wait, it's not welded shut, I'll just open it

>successfully weld door shut
>other person proceeds to weld it open
>can't weld it shut, it's already welded
>door becomes unwelded, the invader opens it

Welding an eight foot door closed instantly during an active pursuit is pretty silly anyway.

I could do:
>show me stock parts that aren't bluespace
Question is how to make it look good.

sketch

players when

Make the - and + buttons line up somehow, then its fine

I played my first round ever last night
It was very quite.
I missed the part where some guy blew up part of the station.
I played a cyborg.
I wanted to cause some mischif but I wasnt an antagonist so I just helped out around the place.

you wouldn't have created much mischief if you were new
for your next rounds, pick a random job not security or Head of Staff and ask people to teach you that particular job

I was deathly afried to ask anyone anything. I always am in new games. I just kinda wandered around, role playing a bit and pressing buttons and clicking things to try and figure them out.

here's some stuff for you guys to give me feedback on:
i've been playing too much starsector and i've been thinking of applying their ship modification system into mechs in ss13. It goes like this
>Each ship hull (which would turn into a mech chassis) has a maximum number of "operation points" and a certain number of hardpoints to mount things (split into ballistic, missile, and energy)
>Mounting a weapon onto a slot takes operation points based on how effective the weapon is, shit weapons like LMGs take less points where better weapons that can put up a fight take more
>the remaining operation points can be invested into the ship's subsystems which will affect how well it is able to vent heat (called flux but same principal), how expensive the ship is to maintain, or can buff weapons or engines
>mechs would have a few hardpoints (ripley would probably have both arms and some misc ones for the legs/torso, while something like a gygax would have arms, maybe head, and other mount points), allowing them to equip almost any gear (so no more chassis restricted shit), but low tier mechs like ripleys will have low OPs meaning that they can either mount mining gear and good subsystems or a drill and a weapon and have no support from subsystems