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Pathfinder General - /pfg/

"The Fifth Horseman is Apathy" edition
Have your characters ever caused some horrible shit to happen by just not caring enough to stop it?

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>Have your characters ever caused some horrible shit to happen by just not caring enough to stop it?
My Wizard summoned a Djinn, got a wish off of it, and then released it. It then promptly enslaved a whole nation and is running all kinds of nasty black market slavery deals and warring with everyone etc.
Whatever, mortals are worthless anyway.

>Have your characters ever caused some horrible shit to happen by just not caring enough to stop it?
My necromancer has been constantly leaving old, outleveled minions behind. There's a bloody skeleton hydra in some dwarf's tomb, a gaggle of fast zombie orcs just sitting around in a swamp, etc.
I reckon a lot of people have died to those boys.
Even when I don't need them anymore, they're doing work... Brings a tear to my eye.

And now you know where those monsters in dungeons come from.

Does anyone have a collection of the pages that were spoiled from Armor Master's Handbook?
I was told it's somewhere in the archives, but I don't know how old it is, or what the OP was so it's really hard to search it out.
Thanks in advance, /pfg/.

It's happened before. They just assumed that the villain of a given arc was no longer a threat after he teleported away and never even tried to look around the castle. A month later his plan was back in action and five towns got wiped out because the party didn't care enough to stop him properly.

>Have your characters ever caused some horrible shit to happen by just not caring enough to stop it?

Literally all the time, because murdering my own party is discouraged.

Speaking of fifth horseman, what would his symbol/chosen weapon be?

It's a shitty knockoff Unchained summoner, we know already.

"Do they look rich enough to pay us?" is basically my party's battlecry.

>Have your characters ever caused some horrible shit to happen by just not caring enough to stop it?
Nope. One of the things about my characters is how much they DO care, either through being genuinely good people or wanting to maintain a level of professional thoroughness.

d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/book_ward

What if you cast this "Book Ward" spell on somebody's meal, as a prank?

>completely waterproof
>immune to the first 12*cl points of acid damage

Here's a question for everyone.

Why should I give a fuck about my dinky 10 year old kingdom in the boondocks of the River Kingdoms when founding it has turned me into a level 15 badass?

Kingmaker assumes I give a damn about Nyrissa bottling up the Greenbelt, but why? For that matter, how am I supposed to get wealthy as the king of a kingdom (which assumes the kingdom's wealth is my wealth) when all those Economy rolls go straight to BP, which I can't convert into gold without heavy penalties?

Like, what's stopping me from packing up my things and moving down to Taldor?

How's that work out?

I want to play a Halfling medium who escaped his Cheliaxian slave master so I can be a small medium at large.

If you've managed to spend ten years working with people in your kingdom and not form any attachments to them, you're either a sociopath or your GM is terrible at RPing NPCs.

Personally, it's a lot of Column B with a little bit of Column A.

The DM has done a really poor job of making the NPCs into people I'd actually give a damn about, and the few he was actually able to nail have little to no attachment to the kingdom itself.

Yeah, I do kind of have to wonder why you don't get, like, a friggin salary as Lord King General Archmage High Priest Player Character The First.

It would have been a nice opportunity to run an obscenely wealthy campaign for once. Make all the fights really hard, and have all the PCs defeat them with the sheer power of DOSH.

Better be first in a village than second at Rome.

Being the best in the village has its perks.

>Yeah, I do kind of have to wonder why you don't get, like, a friggin salary as Lord King General Archmage High Priest Player Character The First.

Wasn't the salary of the kingdom more or less the salary of the king?

In fact, wasn't it always considered a good idea for the king to get a lot of wealth, so he can spend it in and on the kingdom?

Wouldn't this mean all BP generated by a kingdom can be seamlessly liquidated into gp without angering the townsfolk, as long as said gp is spent within the kingdom?

>On our starting world, I worked for a demon vampire head of a cult.
>On our first mission, she wanted us to mess over a lich worm that walks (the individual worms were undead, it would've been terrifying to fight).
>So we got a piece of it so she could mind control it.
>Our cleric felt bad, and left some runes with stored buffs in it for him
>Second mission was to get her a mind flayer to feast upon
>Capture the mind flayer on another continent, come back and hand him off to her
>World was being attacked by a mind flayer void fleet at the time
>Drop off the mind flayer at her tower
>Notice its gotten quiet
>Lich attacks, she retreats to Lamashtu's layer, screaming that she hopes I'm innocent for my sake
>I dip, do nothing to stop the new lich in charge of the tower

>As I said, that world was being attacked by a mind flayer armada, so we leave that plane too.

>When we get to the new plane, we find our way to a kingdom rumoured to be run by undead, because, hey, we're undead too.
>Convince the lich king of that nation to let us take his extraplanar prisoner offworld so he can follow with his undead army and attack the multiplanar empire
>We find out that around 70% of the population of that world is infected with a poison that he can magically trigger, due to generations of tainted harvests
>I see the druid in charge of those harvests as I leave his office
>Do nothing
>70% of the world dies.

Basically, a third of the campaign was us leaving doomed worlds and just noting, 'yup, this place is fucked too.'

Let's be fair here, a level 15 Zweihander Sentinel is going to be first in most cities they decide to settle down in.

Aight, so: after that hailstorm owned Texas right in its Texas face, we've been experiencing some layout delays. Those delays are being resolved, and we finally kicked out the latest Monster Classes (in this case, Fey).

This also means we should be seeing progress on stuff like Akashic Mysteries soonish.

You would think that, but the way the kingdom building rules are written basically turns a kingdom into a money sink. You can put money out of pocket into the kingdom, but you can't remove any of it in any way that benefits the PCs without inciting an angry mob. I remember seeing people asking JJ about what happens if the PCs just decide to take what, as rulers, was rightfully theirs, and his response was some half-assed "Because Good characters would totally run a kingdom for free and not try and take anything from the treasury."

How would you role play a character being encouraged to change their alignment in exchange for power, when the situation isn't "slide into temptation and give into evil" but instead changing to some non-evil alignment for the sake of power?

Good to hear. I've been hoping for some Akasha updates soon.
Also, welcome back, Gareth!

An evil or neutral person gets dicked over by evil so hard they become a paladin

My players and I have been using the kingdom's BP as a substitute/supplement for WBL in my Kingmaker campaign. We're using some homebrewed rules but frankly I never wanted to bother playing spreadsheet simulator anyway.

Welcome back? Are you doing better?

>I remember seeing people asking JJ about what happens if the PCs just decide to take what, as rulers, was rightfully theirs, and his response was some half-assed "Because Good characters would totally run a kingdom for free and not try and take anything from the treasury."

That's dumb.

That's really, really dumb.

A king and his advisors were *expected* to take freely from the treasury and spend it on themselves, because every gp spent buying a fancy new mansion is gp going into labor, the local merchants guild and hiring new tenant-farmers (thus providing a lifestyle for someone who'd otherwise be a beggar). A Good character should be taking what is rightfully theirs because all that money's going back into the economy anyway.

And why the fuck should the King be personally spending his cash on building up villages and farms? Shouldn't those happen naturally - wait no, shouldn't people be PAYING HIM to rent out that land and use it for farming?

Well obviously. After all, it's not like said Good PCs (or Neutral or even Evil) have any personal costs in services and gear necessary to actually stand in defense of said kingdom... right?

>Shouldn't those happen naturally - wait no, shouldn't people be PAYING HIM to rent out that land and use it for farming?

But user, don't you remember how William the Conqueror spent his own personal funds on settling Kent with tenant-farmers? Or how he used his own dosh to build up Winchester's shopping district?

You can do that actually, and people always seem to forget it- not hard to do considering there's only like one sentence mentioning it and they give no examples. You can convert BP from the treasure into GP to spend on stuff as long as it benefits the kingdom in some way, with the GM being the one to decide what would and wouldn't cause unrest. For example, "Oh no, the ruler's been assassinated- we need to revive him, but we don't have quite enough money ourselves so we'll have to dip into the kingdom's coffers" would probably be okay but "Gee, those Boots of Speed look reeeeeeally awesome... I'm sure the peasantry wouldn't mind me spending their tax money on them" probably wouldn't go over well.

How is the Akashic stuff going, anyway? I've been out of the loop for a while now, but last I heard it had some problems with poorly scaling or uninteresting veils. Have you guys been getting much feedback on it?

Maybe it would feel a bit weird as they were chewing it.

Alternatively, cast on someone and shrink them down for fetish bait

>Wouldn't this mean all BP generated by a kingdom can be seamlessly liquidated into gp without angering the townsfolk, as long as said gp is spent within the kingdom?

That would certainly be nice. Properly managed, you'll be raking in BP ludicrously fast by the fourth book or so, and it's not like money spent on the rulers's shinies isn't directly in the interest of the common man. You wind up personally bitch slapping just about every threat to the kingdom anyway.

In my party, the general, a cavalier, had taken leadership, and had about seventy-five men as his personal entourage, under the command of his cohort, some ridiculous fop. Mostly he used them to do minor errands while he was out murdering the fauna. One day, he'd left them to guard a newly founded city near the border which had just been fortified with a castle. An invading army crossed the border and laid siege to it. Upon hearing of this from some brave messenger, the party, realizing that there was no time to bring the real army over to hold the castle, personally teleported there themselves, and regrouped with the cavalier's retinue.

By the army rules, they qualified as a "Fine" sized army, with a fat stack of bonuses from being magic as hell, equipped out the wazoo, and standing on the top of a fortress. So they went to war with the enemy's armies, using the army battle rules, a force of eighty vs a force of over a thousand, including ogres and flying wyverns or some shit.

At the end of the day, they stood victorious at the top of their wall, with minimal casualties.

Hail to the King, baby.

I feel like the best way to approach, going non-evil for the sake of power is for that power to go to protecting something other than yourself. Not necessarily selflessly (that would be good), but finding something you value besides yourself (ie neutral).

Civilization and economy, ie Abadar, or nature, or something more flexible. I can't see many people truly changing alignment -from- evil just for power.

God damn weapon cords

Shall we nerf them, senpai?

Somewhat.

> How is the Akashic stuff going, anyway? I've been out of the loop for a while now, but last I heard it had some problems with poorly scaling or uninteresting veils. Have you guys been getting much feedback on it?

Oh boy. Um. The playtest has been going on for a year or two, user. I'm afraid the majority of it is set in stone now. What's done is done, and may not be un-done; we're in layout, past the 11th hour, and trying to slay this demon.

Just spent some time trying to emulate a weapon cord and sword combo with my mouse... You just cannot justify it! It's unreasonably powerful for how cheap it is! I say we convert it into a +2 weapon ability.

Yes, please.

>one of my players actually agreed with it
Holy fuck that's two strikes

Spoiler warning for Kingmaker, I guess.

In my particular case, doing it for selfless reasons could work. I was talking about this a bit a few generals ago, but my NG PC recently came into possession of a intelligent weapon of artifact level power. The main problem is that the weapon's alignment is CN, so I'm taking negative levels for holding it. If my PC became CG, he wouldn't take the negative levels anymore, but it wouldn't make sense RP-wise for him to just change alignment overnight and even it did, as with most characters my PC likes being his alignment (as much as characters have the meta-awareness to recognize alignment as a thing).

When we found it, the intelligent weapon was effectively unconscious and was "just" a +4 weapon. According to the DM, the artifact will continue to grow more powerful as it "wakes up", which also translates to meaning it will give more negative levels. At this stage it's not yet able to communicate beyond an empathic emotional bond with its wielder but eventually it should be able to. Unfortunately, the DM has pretty much said it will be impossible to convince the weapon to change alignment (much to my disappointment and probably also my PC's disappointment when he realizes his attempts to convince the weapon to change alignment are pointless). It seems the only way these negative levels are going away is if my PC changes alignment (or ditches the probably plot-necessary sword), which really kind of sucks since it makes it feel like the sword is the one in charge here.

I've mentioned that my PC will probably consider not using the sword, which my DM thinks would be a real shame. Oh, and to complicate things, we have a druid in our party who has an intelligent weapon of his own- intelligent weapons never get along with each other.

Man, my group just barely optimized the kingdom and we had enough money and army to topple Pitax by the end of book 3. The whole thing is pretty nonsense. The Roanoake thing didn't interest my players at all, so they skipped it, and they openly refused to go to Pitax's carnival by not even showing up to the session (which wasn't a dick move since we were playing with 12 people and "show up when you feel like it with alternating DM" arrangement) just to start the war which they then won. My co-DM and I decided to not bother with the bad guy that comes out of nowhere at the end and write a cool finale where the king's wedding to some other noble was interrupted by a green dragon and his wereshark army. Kingmaker is just too damn long, and the Kingdom is too easy to build well.

The missing town in Book 3 is amazing, though, it's quite easily the second best settlement in the campaign after the player capital.

Also I've found the common replacement for Nyrissa is the Brevoy civil war forcing the player's hand, which ends with the party ruling Pitax, Greenbelt AND Brevoy.

Hm. Well, chances are the problems I heard about have been fixed by now. Even if they haven't though, I'm not tossing shade on you guys for that if you did earnest playtesting but just didn't get much useful feedback. I don't think it had the same hype behind it to drive playtesters that PoW and Psionics had. If it's all locked in now, nothing can really be helped.

Would it be unprofessional for you to give your personal thoughts on how Akashic Mysteries is turning out?

Know what I just realized?

Nyrissa out of fucking nowhere was done because Paizo realized they had made an AP with absolutely no world-ending threat or regional terror that must be toppled, and that TERRIFIED them.

Add to that Book 5 ends with the PC kingdom conquering another kingdom and Paizo realized they can't top that.

That is a hell of a loaded question, user.

I, to, am interested in knowing.

Let my lack of comment resound across the holdings of Man.

Well, my Dual-Cursed Oracle thinks he's being punished by the ghosts of his hometown's populace for not caring enough to save them.

His father was an adventurer of some renown, and back when said father was in Rusty Dagger Shanktown, he spared an enemy Sorcerer during a bar brawl.

That sorcerer returned fifty years later to destroy everything this kid's father loved. His wife, the village he'd settled, everything. Everything burned - save for his young son, who as previously mentioned, ran away in the chaos.

So now his hands are burnt and he's constantly hounded by evil spirits masquerading as everyone he ever loved.

It's THAT kind of game.

I'm the player from (You), and my DM has said that even though a lot of the stuff in this campaign has seemed terribly unconnected, it's actually all connected behind the scenes in a way that the players would never really know without the DM just spilling the exposition OOC. I'm looking forward to finishing the campaign so he can give us a run-down on all his many grievances with Kingmaker (and he's looking forward to it, too), but I'm prepared for disappointment with the AP itself.

Yeah, I know, I kind of realized it after submitting the post and regretted asking.

No hard feelings there. I'll wait until the book actually comes out and then judge it for whatever it is at that point.

I'm buying a heavy horse and a wagon to cart my shit around.
What kinda stuff should I get for the horse aside from food and water?
Never bothered to do this kind of thing before.

...user, she was there in the GM materials since book one. This wasn't some last minute addition, it's just that Nyrissa's entire backstory and interaction with the plot was placed in materials the players can't read, to be explained by characters they can't not kill.

You cheeky git.

Is DSP still working on Arcforge? And if so is it still a psitech thing?

How power gaming is it that I use Planar Binding to keep Planar Bound/Dimensional Locked/Dominated succubi to keep a +2 profane bonus to all my ability scores? I am assuming a lot.

Now, I am curious of other outsiders/creatures that can give you bonuses. I want an entire host of creatures I have summoned and forced to give me extra power.

New discipline from DSP: Fool's Errand.

docs.google.com/document/d/1jWw7bVMARxrXfRuOW20NlRqXEnS_XGLPT6LHTbz2qME/edit

As the guy who started the "out of nowhere" grievance in this thread, I will admit that this is 100% accurate. She is a player behind the scenes the whole time, but the book says you shouldn't tell your players about it.

Armor/barding. A stray arrow WILL hit your horse.

Huh, where'd that come from? Can't find any posts on it on GitP.

Spelljammer.

If the players arrive on the spelljammer ship, and then the spelljammer closes its gates for a period of time as it is wont to do, is it cool to run a dungeoncrawling adventure on board the ship?

What a cool concept!

>you will never convince Nyrissa that her plan is stupid and she should feel stupid

Why even put ranks in Diplomacy?

>All this Kingmaker discussion

What did you guys name your capital? Your kingdom?

THE spelljammer? The Spelljammer is a ready-made dungeon/political clusterfuck, especially if your players have an ultimate helm.

Have you read the box set?

She's a Nymph Queen that had her capacity to love turned into an amazing sword, it's kind of impossible to convince her now.

Wait... Her sword is intelligent and is crystallized nymph love... Can you fall in love with Briar?

HOLY FUCK
I JUST REALIZED MARTIAL TRAINING FEATS REQUIRE X BAB _OR_ X RANKS IN KN: MARTIAL
OOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMNNNNNN

Okay. This, I think I like. I'm checking out the Errant Fools organization at the moment. But it's kind of coming from out of nowhere, and if you're suppose to be someone from DSP, you forgot your nametag.

I really hate grasp. REALLY fucking hate it. I dislike DSPs use of skills against static defenses or generally things that aren't skill rolls. One can easily optimize a skill roll so that you never loose to a target's CMD.

This is why I have a problem with skill checks against spells, and skill checks against attack rolls as well. For a zealot he can make himself immune from spells from a single creature using autohypnosis with that sleeping goddess maneuver. Because spells are the limiting resource there a zealot with an optimized autohypnosis will never lose to a single caster.

Here it means that a character can always drag an enemy up to half his speed in a direction. With optimized movements this means once you have grasped an enemy they are no longer anywhere near their allies.

It's shit. I hate it.

Assert Existence
Discipline: Fool's Errand (Counter)
Level: 7
Prerequisites: Two Fool’s Errand maneuvers
Initiation Action: 1 immediate action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 round
Through dangerous and foolhardy training, you have learned to center your focus in order to gain the ability to shrug off hostile magic. You can initiate this counter at any time. For one round, you cannot be affected by magical effects (including psionic powers, psi-like abilities, spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities, as well as effects from magic items) that do not originate from yourself. Your own abilities and items function normally.

Standard action maneuver recovery outside of combat.

Oh, god fucking forbid a martial master can actually kick non-stop ass in combat!
It's fucking DREADFUL, you're right!

I was thinking of doing that, I haven't read the full box set but I've read some of the "essays on wildspace" and the general info on spelljammer.org

It might be cool for the players to delve deep into the depths of the ship, perhaps uncovering something apocalyptic like a portal to the abyss or something.

Originally it was Baltheran, but after the accident, the city was informally known as "Queen Ladybird's Party-time Funhouse"

It's not all that different from diamond-tipped feathers, depending on how you define 'condition', as it includes curses, so it's not just status effects.

Becoming immune to spells from a single target while being able to not spend a limit reagent of your own is too strong. What is why I dislike zealot's recovery mechanic in conjunction with counters that use skill checks against attack rolls and spell saves. Sleeping Goddess and Eternal Guardian both have offenders.

If you can't see what is wrong with making it so you literally can not be effected by spells (or if you are a zealot none of your allies can be effected by them either) then I am unsure what to say to you.

The first thought of mine as we learned about her was that maybe we could convince her to be allies, as she didn't seem like the bad guy in the situation as it was explained to our PCs and I didn't fancy the idea of doing the Eldest's dirty work by taking her out, especially if she could potentially be a powerful ally against other nations of the River Kingdom. I sold a couple of my fellow PCs on it too, thought it would be possible to come to a reasonable compromise and mutually beneficial arrangement with her. But all our PCs also agreed that reasonable compromise would only be possible IF Nyrissa is reasonable herself and not insane. After several attempts to scry on her we eventually succeeded and were able to watch her being totally insane, so I guess that's not going to be an option- which is pretty disappointing, IMO.

>Initiator can walk through magic traps

I love this

>WAAAH I CAN'T MIND CONTROL THE FIGHTER ANYMORE
Fuck off mate.

Casters being able to become completely immune to absolutely anything is OK, but a martial being able to become immune to some (reminder: Wish, Miracle) spells is a CATASTROPHE, huh?
Typical.

Dear lord are you an idiot. Ok, tell me how it is balanced for someone to not have to spend a limit resource and become immune to powers, psi-like abilities, spells, and spell-like abilities?

Please, if you have an explanation I would love to here. Because all you're doing right now is acting like an asshat and not actually examining the internal balance.

It's one of the sylphette's projects. Just got added to the Patreon as a bonus.

I mean, if they bring an ultimate helm onboard, they'll shortly discover the ship is pregnant, and they're the father. That should be sufficiently surprising, I think.

>Casters being able to become completely immune to absolutely anything is OK, but a martial being able to become immune to some (reminder: Wish, Miracle) spells is a CATASTROPHE, huh?
Typical.
Not some spells, all spells, spell like abilities, powers, and psi-like abilities.

The ability is whenever you are targeted by or are in the area targeted by something that fits into those categories you can initiate the counter and make a check against a DC of 11+caster/manifestor level.

With even a small bit of optimization to your check you will be able to beat that DC even on a 1. This effectively is going to make you immune. With the zealot's recovery mechanic you can easily get it back every round.

No seriously, how is this a balanced counter?

Not even him, but are you seriously saying that magic actually has limited resources?
For fuck's sake, if you run out of spells you can just teleport away and come back the next day. It's not limited. Just like maneuvers.
If it still required you to use XP to cast spells I'd understand. What's the worst thing a Wizard has to deal with, the diamond for Wish? Some games would just let you Blood Money for it or have a Simulacrum or some BS anyway.

Text of the maneuver in question.

6th level
Convert Intrusion
Sleeping Goddess (Counter)
Level: 6
Prerequisites: Two Sleeping Goddess maneuvers
Initiation Action: 1 immediate action
Range: Personal and 30 ft. (see text)
Target: You (see text)
Duration: 1 round (see text)

With a practiced flourish of your weapon and a surge of spiritual might, you tear magic asunder and redirect its power to assist your allies. You can initiate this counter when in response to being targeted by or within the area of a power, psi-like ability, spell, or spell-like ability. Make an Autohypnosis check with a DC of 11 + the effect’s caster or manifester level. If you succeed, the effect is negated, and all allies within 30 feet of you gain a competence bonus on saving throws equal to 1/2 your initiation modifier for one round.

Augment: You can augment this maneuver in one or more of the following ways:
For every 2 power points you spend, the bonuses granted by this counter last an additional round.
If you expend your psionic focus while initiating this counter, you can use it in response to an ally within 60 feet being targeted by or within the area of a power, psi-like ability, spell, or spell-like ability. If you do, make an Autohypnosis check as normal, then apply the effects of this counter to that ally rather than yourself. Your allies within 30 feet of that ally gain the bonus on saving throws from this counter.


Is never being able to be effected by a spell/spell like ability/power/psi-like ability again balanced?

A Wizard can just Wish for the ability to not work, so it's not all spells. Additionally, you could just, you know, slay everyone but the martial, cackle madly, and planeshift away.

At the cost of a Swift and Standard action every round, leaving you with nothing to do but walk around? Yeah, if you want to be a living anti-spell battery, that feels fine to me.

>Not even him, but are you seriously saying that magic actually has limited resources?
This is in the context of the encounter in question. An enemy is only willing to use so much until he backs out for the day. That is a won encounter.

The initiator in question merely has to sit there and is immune to anything the individual does that can target him. The only things that work is summonings because even area of effect spells and area of control spells can be negated easily.

I don't think casters are balanced. They are always fucked up if you abuse their system, but this is also not balanced in the slightest.

>1/round
>doesn't work against ambushes

Bringing in non standard wishes means nothing because wish specifically states non standard wishes are supposed to fuck you over.

>Additionally, you could just, you know, slay everyone but the martial, cackle madly, and planeshift away.
Not a zealot he can simply use it for any ally. The only way is to force him to use it twice a round using quickened spells.

Again he spends no resource that isn't rechargeable on a by round basis while the other spends daily resources.

An encounter is not won if the enemy escapes, user.

The additional competence bonus lasts a round. The only time it doesn't work is in a surprise round when you are denied an immediate action. However you can easily get an immediate in a surprise round with little investment.

This is how zealots should be played if smart. They can make any ally in their collective immune to spells/attacks (using eternal guardian). Combined with martyrdom and the creation mission it becomes essentially impossible to kill anyone in the zealot's collective.

>the solution to casters being broken isn't to unbreak casting, it's to BREAK EVERYTHING ELSE OUT OF SPITE!!!
Never change, /dspg/.

And he's not using those round-by-round resources for anything else. He can't craft, he can't use most any skill, he can't even use other utility maneuvers. All he can do is... not be affected by magics.

If you have forced an enemy to flee then you have won the encounter. You have forced the wizard to flee while spending no limiting resources. The wizard is the loser in this encounter.

Okay, but he's a Zealot. An initiator. Someone designed to be actively ending fights.

I'll take 'blow a low level spell slot each round to completely lock down one of the most dangerous men in the room' any day.

Fuck, it even fucks up his marching pace.

A setback is literally not a loss, especially one as small as wasting a day's spell slots.

>"WAAAAAAAAAAH, A MARTIAL CAN SPEND TWO ACTIONS A ROUND TO IGNORE SPELLS THAT TARGET HIM"

JUST. FUCKING. SUMMON. SOMETHING. ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS FORCE HIM TO STOP CONCENTRATING ON BEING IMMUNE TO MAGIC. I DON'T EVEN LIKE SOME OF DSP'S STUFF AND I KNOW THE CASTER BABBIES ARE BEING MORONS. IF HIS FRIENDS ARE A PROBLEM, JUST KILL HIS FRIENDS WHILE HE'S IMMUNE TO MAGIC AND THEN DOGPILE HIM WITH SUMMONS. YOU DUMB PISS DRINKING CRYBABY.

>B-but he doesn't need to spend a resource!
>implying "spells per day" matter at level 10+
>when two casters can clear an entire dungeon without even spending all their daily spell slots

He needs to focus on being magic immune, at which point he is unable to defend himself from literally anything else. Ignore him and kill his friends, or force him to fight back against something else.

No one in his party can be effected by magic/psionics. That alone is enormously strong if you are fighting one. The character you are fighting now has no avenue of trying to fight back and is forced to flee. Coming back does not even help because the individual who can make them immune is still there. For a zealot it makes him and his party essentially immune to casters unless they are in groups.

The only way to get around it is to force multiple spells a round using quicken. However because the maneuver ALSO gives a large bonus to saves these secondary weaker spells are even less useful and require the burning of their more important limiting resource (the higher level slots).

It's an extremely strong ability, far too strong.

>Another anti-magic counter is revealed
>Wizard defense force in full swing again
Loving every laugh