Pathfinder General /pfg/

Muleback Cords cost only 1,000 gp.

>spending 1k gold at level 2-3 in shanktown
>not just spending 50 gp on a chest, 25 gp for a great lock, 150 gp for a cart and horse

And eats the spot where you need a cloak of resistance

>playing at level 1-2
Your fault.

Nope. DSP gives you a Corset of Resistance.

Ravenlot and Zealord. Got it.

>starting out beyond 4th level
Whats the point? With that kind of wealth and gear, you're not really struggling as an adventurer.

So this guy in my group is playing a swashbuckler who has like 18 base AC but constantly fights defensively even while performing CMs which I'm pretty sure is not allowed, and gets +1 AC from being next to allies, and gets +1 AC from feinting, and a shitton of other stuff. Now he is multiclassing into Armiger and I can't find where the swashbuckler abilities require you to be in light armor. They probably don't

So now this guy has like 24 AC and this ability that forces things to attack him. as well as temporary HP from smoking Opium all the time.

How the fuck do I end this? I made the mistake of saying yes to all this shit

Why the fuck can't people just make normal goddamn characters for once??

Those tits are badly drawn

l2touch/flatfooted, cuckold

He's nerfing himself by playing a fucking swashbuckler. Ignore it.

Also, 24 AC is pitiful.
I hit 30 AC at 6th level Aegis / Soulknife

Not things that the GM can exert full setting control over with veto control if necessary.

Pls no. Being dedicated to building things rather than just shopping lists is clearly too much.

You're a pleb.

Level 3 = 3,000 gp

1,100 gp = Mithral chain shirt
1,000 gp = Muleback Cords
300+ gp = Masterwork weapon

Go pick up Ghost Hunting Blow from Veiled Moon in case you need to fight incorporeals.

>you're not really struggling as an adventurer

I mean, if that's why you play, I guess. My group tends to play starting at level 6-8ish, in order to start out as competent adventurers facing enemies who are the real deal.

Uhh...AC is terrible, user. I don't get why you're freaking out. This guy is literally using the second last and last lines of defense as a character base, and nerfing himself into the ground by fighting defensively and playing swashbuckler.

>Touch AC
>Flatfooted AC
>Saving throws
>Spells
>Combat maneuvers

Who the fuck is he fighting that can't deal with just AC?

>Why the fuck can't people just make normal goddamn characters for once??
Go fuck yourself, cuck.

>no rations
>no camping materials
>no adventuring gear like ropes, maps, writing materials or even a backpack to keep it in

You know how I can already tell you're not a roleplayer?

Threadly reminder DSP make superior classes to Paizo, play their classes instead. Do not question this.

>roleplaying
>in PF
>with a GM who optimizes every encounter
>we don't get to fight Goblins or Ogres, we get optimized casters who also have Ooze and Swarm minions for some reason

Not even relevant to the argument, just have me from this hell.

Wow you guys were no help.

I think I'm just going to cancel my Pathfinder campaign instead. I'll play an actually good system like D&D 5e.

You made the arcane archer base class, didn't you, butthurt-kun?

Oh, hey Virt.

I almost didn't recognise you.

That's the right thing to do user.
Good luck and have fun.

confirmed b8 goodbye

Shoulda guessed from the op swashbuckler and the 'no help despite 5 suggestions'

k bye

W E L L ?
E L L ? W
L L ? W E
L ? W E L
? W E L L

>no rations
>no camping materials
>no adventuring gear like ropes, maps, writing materials or even a backpack to keep it in

100 gp at most for those.

AT MOST.

>not having rations, camping materials, and adventuring gear abstracted so you can roleplay scenes during and between sessions with the other players without having to track fiddly details and copper-piece prices

user it's like you don't even play for the RP

I'm thinking of giving the Cavalier in my campaign a Black Blade. He won't know it's a Black Blade until he figures out what the sudden voice in his head is with his 7 Int.

Any thoughts? Is this a bad idea?

Maybe you're fighting Jubilex worshippers?

I dunno know how to help, friendo. Maybe fly. Out of range of swarm and ooze

Do you have some great and pressing need?
Calm your tits

>well

Presumably he's asked them and hasn't gotten an answer back. It's the 4th of july and half of DSP's team works retail. Forrest posted in a GitP thread commenting about it, iirc.

>all this full retard shitposting
>dude who ignores the floating 600 gp for necessity items because "YOU HAVE TO LIST EVERY SINGLE THING OR YOU'RE A ROOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLL PLAAAAAYYYEEEEEER"
>"dude swashbuckler op" guy who ignores all advice telling him how to stop being a moron

I'd rather have the kitsune or monmosu shitposting at this point. At least then when people raged they tended to post funny pictures or art I could mine for my folders.

You're giving him another classes archetype? Or just an intelligent item?

I'm just wondering how Jeff gets any writing done when it takes him 3 days to put down a paragraph.

Good thing my original question was days ago, not hours.

Great idea.

Make it a voice from his past and secretly evil.

I know it's poor form to go "but DSP!," but You should give him Razor instead. And then bring back storytimes. My DM used that sword with another player in my game and it's the best thing.

Yeah. They probably also don't have explaining their shitty monster classes at the top of their priority list desu

>not emptying every tavern in town of its ales, wines and meads for the long journey ahead
>not preparing masterwork camping gear
>not making your cooking utensils and pots and pans out of dwarven-forged mithral

Do you even adventurer?

You do remember the bit where the classes were finished some time ago and at this point are just a layout issue, yes? Jeff's got other shit he's doing with his time.

I can only counsel patience.

>monmosu shitposting
Done.

Which bestiary entry would you waifu?

Apart from Sound Striker bards, are there any good 1st party ways to kill someone with sound? I want a PC that can fuck people up with a violin without physically hitting them with it.

Just the item, and I was thinking of taking away the whole special ability column, just giving it the scaling enhancement and mental stats/ego from the Bladebound Magus table.

Do you have a link to the Razor? I just recently started allowing PoW, and my players haven't warmed up to it yet.

You know that show called How It's Made, where they take something and spend 5-10 minutes on an overview of the manufacturing process?

That's all I want here.

Razor's in their steelforge playtest. docs.google.com/document/d/1SrB0WBi4eCsZ990MtH4NlLzFuQzTpYRNuNg2EaK6YnU/edit

Not actually a PoW thing, just an incredible intelligent item.

> Not drawing your own food and drink
> Not drawing your own expeditious tent
> Not drawing your own utensils

I loves marvelous pigment.

>not making your cooking utensils and pots and pans out of dwarven-forged mithral
>le dwarven-made meme

Whatever the dwarf makes are absolute garbage.
I can take a shit in a forge and craft a better set of armor.

Thundercaller Bard.

Hey guys I never played 3.5 and only dabbled in pathfinder. I played a game once and I was a cleric with the healing domain. The DM put us against some pretty tough monsters and I died so he said I wasn't good enough to play in his game.

It was fun though and I want to play more how hard is it to run a game?

I really like this idea.
You should also make an alternate Cavalier class with that in mind.

What's it like constantly being cucked by humans because you can't get your tiny dick up to adults, elves, or women?

250 gp for a Traveler's Any-Tool.

>having a DM who charges you WBL for that instead of just allowing you to have it as your fluff requires

I don't think there's enough to the concept for a whole new class, but I could see a Bladebound Cavalier archetype.

>thinking you shouldn't have to pay for useful items
>reee gibsmedat
Kill yourself, subhuman.

>actually paying for your gear
>not simply manifesting whatever tool you need from your mind

C U C K S
U
C
K
S

I prepared a .txt file long ago for that situation.

5 Bells, 5gp, 0 lbs
1 Compass, 10gp, 0.5 lbs.
2 Cases, Map or Scroll, 2gp, 1 lb.
5 Bear Traps, 10gp, 50 lbs.
5 Bags of Caltrops, 5gp, 10 lbs.
20 Candles, 0.02gp, 0 lbs.
10 pcs. White Chalk, 0.01gp, 0 lbs.
10 pcs. Colored Chalk (various), 0.02gp, 0 lbs.
1 Book, Journal, 10gp, 1 lb.
3 lbs. Sealing Wax, 3gp, 3 lbs.
2 Inkpens, 0.2gp, 0 lbs.
1 oz. of Glowing Ink, 5gp, 0 lbs.
10 sheets of Rice Paper, 0.5gp, 0 lbs.
1 Crowbar, 2gp, 5 lbs.
1 Hammer, 0.5gp, 5 lbs.
1 Flint and Steel, 1gp, 0 lbs.
1 Sledge, 1gp, 10 lbs.
1 Block and Tackle, 5gp, 5 lbs.
2 Quarterstaves, 0gp, 8 lbs.
250ft. Hemp Rope, 5gp, 50 lbs.
50ft. Silk Rope, 10gp, 5 lbs.
1 Small Steel Mirror, 10gp, 0.5 lbs.
3 Empty Glass Vials, 3gp, 0 lbs.
5 Empty Iron Vials, 0.5gp, 5 lbs.
1 Cold Weather Outfit, 8gp, 7 lbs.
1 Hot Weather Outfit, 8gp, 4 lbs.
3 Traveler's Outfits, 3gp, 15 lbs.
1 pair of Snowshoes, 5gp, 4 lbs.
1 Backpack, 2gp, 2 lbs.
2 Waterproof Bags, 1gp, 1 lb.
2 Bandoliers, 1gp, 0 lbs.
2 Belt Pouches, 2gp, 1 lb.
2 Spell Component Pouches, 10gp, 4 lbs.
4 Sacks, 0.4gp, 2 lbs.
2 Waterskins, 2gp, 8 lbs.
3 Grappling Hooks, 3gp, 12 lbs.
1 Bullseye Lantern, 12gp, 3 lbs.
1 set of Thieves' Tools, 30gp, 1 lb.
10 Pitons, 1gp, 5 lbs.
10 Iron Spikes, 0.5gp, 10 lbs.
1 Signal Whistle, 0.8gp, 0 lbs.
1 Small Tent, 10gp, 20 lbs.
20 Torches, 0.02gp, 20 lbs.
500ft. of String, 0.01gp, 5 lbs.
Total: 283 lbs. & 188.48 gp

I also have one of Bestow Curse & similar options, including expanded options.

>taking "tool packs" or "adventurer packs"
I'll never understand you niggers. Buying misc items is what I get off on when I play D&D. Its like embarking in dwarf fortress or playing Oregon Trail but you can buy anything and use it for anything you can imagine.

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Its good to know I'm not the only person that buys and lists EVERYTHING they have and where they are stored so I can roleplay to the maximum capabilities of my character.

>not using magic to fabricate whatever you need instead, including summoning a fine succubus whore whenever you're bored

PLEB

I am not the person who wrote the monster classes; I was brought on after everything was written to help tweak and finalize them. However, for the "how it's made" stuff... The goal of the Monster Classes was to deliver the fantasy of playing-the-monster, in a way that refluffing/building-to-emulate/etc doesn't for many people.

With that in mind, a /whole lot/ of the initial design was gut feeling, comparing to existing options at a given level, and then running numbers afterwards to tweak it.

In some cases, we ended up erring on the side of a stronger class in order to help support the feel of "playing the monster." In others, we decided to take further steps away from the bestiary stuff when things became too problematic for gameplay. For example, the decision to stat up the Ghost as a specific race instead of a template, and furthermore, the decision to give them miss chances (stronger defenses and more useful in small numbers) instead of scaling into damage resistance like PF's incorporeal subtype was based on wanting to make it playable and fit the concept, instead of matching the exact monster.

With dead levels? We split up abilities into chunks that felt like they fit at the levels they arrived at; ditto ability scores, natural armor scaling, movement modes, etc.

I just spent a good two minutes trying to click store windows when the captcha was asking for mountains. I think I should probably go to bed.

>I'll never understand you niggers. Buying misc items is what I get off on when I play D&D. Its like embarking in dwarf fortress or playing Oregon Trail but you can buy anything and use it for anything you can imagine.

While I hate that shit, myself. I play D&D for the roleplay and interactions with other characters (PC and NPC), and occasionally the combat and character building.

Strength bonus to damage is 1.5x with the weapons anyone uses, and power attack gives better damage than piranha strike. AC isn't that big a deal, the shit that will really fuck you up targets saves.

>damage resistance like PF's incorporeal subtype
>Forrest thinks incorporeal uses DR

If a supernatural ability says "creature within 30 feet" but never says you need line of effect to that creature, can you use that ability through a wall or a door as long as you know where your target is?

SPELLS need line of effect by default, but supernatural abilities are not spells.

For using shit in any ways I can imagine, I get off on using my ABILITIES for that, rather than random gear. I get a much more satisfying feeling out of using a cantrip, maneuver, or spell to pull something oddball off than using rope to. I use rope and camping tools to do stuff all the time, I don't need to pretend to do that in a game.

But that doesn't explain the fucking ridiculous goodies some of the monster classes get (looking at you, succubus).

If I absolutely had my choice, it's between Swan Maiden, Weretiger, Gynosphinx, Alraune, Vampire, sentient Wax Golem, or the Air Veela.

I'm indecisive, okay?

When did I say Damage Reduction, user?

From the incorporeal subtype:
>It is immune to all nonmagical attack forms. Even when hit by spells or magic weapons, it takes only half damage from a corporeal source (except for channel energy).

As I said, there were some classes that we erred on the side of a stronger class when that class had abilities that were a core part of getting that feel. The spellcasting option for monsters like the succubus exists for DMs to nerf (or buff, in some cases) the classes with heavy amounts of SLAs if they don't feel they're right for their game.

I see. This is exactly what I wanted; thanks.

Sorry to be delayed with it. As someone noted upthread, it's been a very long week and weekend.

>Indecisive

Isn't the show a harem anime though?

>not Anemos to make beautiful Sylph babies

>the decision to give them miss chances (stronger defenses and more useful in small numbers) instead of scaling into damage resistance like PF's incorporeal subtype was based on wanting to make it playable and fit the concept, instead of matching the exact monster.

>rolling for miss chances with each attack = more playable

Sure buddy.

Don't most characters try to get miss chance around level 4-5 anyway, since it's the best defense?

Its about enjoying the roleplay of the mundane in a fantastical setting though. You keep track of that to ground yourself to the reality of what you're doing in the world. When you remember your character eats, and drinks from a water skin, or finds it shitty to sleep on a hard cavern floor, or find the smell of some dungeon room repugnant because the DM remembered to use rules for an extremely off-putting mold that you get to engross in the world.

I'm not saying characters aren't important or anything. I heavily roleplay character encounters too. I'm just not a fan of people that use "I would have had that in my pocket" improv, even if they very well would have probably had it in their pocket. In my mind either you do, or your don't, because its a real world. Unless you actually do have magic pants that let you pull mundane items out of your pockets.

I like playing casters too, though I'm more partial to the sorcerer than the wizard/witch/summoner. As a sorcerer though I like to dress like a soldier and avoid magic whenever possible. I can only assume that letting people know you use magic is almost never beneficial. The last character I played was a sorcerer with a "sphinx" bloodline I think? I specialized in scrying and anti-scrying magic and my party thought I was a ranger for the longest time because I pretended I was tracking people instead of whiping out a crystal ball. I also used a crossbow a lot.

You realize actual incorporeality has a 50% miss chance against magic attacks, right? It's still a problem. This way is just weaker, since mundane attacks work sometimes too.

It halves damage, actually.

>stupid cuck didn't read the rules
Expected.

Sure. I keep track of stuff like that, but my group also doesn't dock your WBL for it. We tend to pick up mundane gear and write it on our sheet as needed. If we had to spend the gold we use for mechanical viability on stuff (or, hell, if we had to dig into a book to find prices and weights for things), we wouldn't know that my character has a sweet tooth and that his adopted younger sister makes amazing donuts. That several of the characters prefer cream in their coffee, but the kitsune likes it black ("like his heart," as the DM joked). I wouldn't be describing the novels my character reads, nor would I be noting down that he takes the time to keep his clothing and hair impeccable, even in a dungeon. We wouldn't be spending time describing how the characters' shoes make it awkward to walk in certain parts of the dungeon, and how the inquisitor complains about his cursed high heels.

We probably wouldn't be spending half a session or more on just characters talking, spending time joking around at a campfire as the party's hammer-wielding myrmidon cooks stew and bemoans the lack of facilities to make more donuts.

Keeping yourself grounded in the mundane parts of a fantastical setting doesn't come from messing with spreadsheets of items, it comes from a group taking the time to explore scenes that involve it.

That guy in white reminds me of a followers of the Prophecies of Kalistrade.

I bet he's fabulous.

hurse is best grill.

>waaa I am literally too poor to spend 20 gp max on interesting fluff shit
kys retard thx

>followers of the Prophecies of Kalistrade.

Speaking of, has anyone ever played a Kalistocrat?

There's a troupe of them in Dragon's Demand, which introduced me to the concept, but it seems like it would be a pretty nuts thing to actually try and play.

I don't want to dignify that with a response, but it's more like... What's even the point? The fluff stuff doesn't make enough of a difference monetarily to consider it worth the time digging through rulebooks to find items approximating what we want to have on our characters in most cases.

And in the cases where the book labels something with a price that DOES matter (spyglasses, for example), why the fuck would a sane DM charge a player a significant amount of money for something that's entirely fluff?

It's like tracking mundane ammo. At some point you hit diminishing returns on realism adding to the game, when that time and energy could be better spent anywhere else, like discussing how our kitsune is trying desperately to hide his true identity from the rest of the party (including his adopted sister with the donuts).

Maybe it's just a personal preference thing. I prefer very character-driven campaigns, where the interactions between PC and PC matter a lot more than the interactions between Player and Environment. Since that's what a lot of the sentiments expressed seem to be getting at here--the idea that it's on the player to buy equipment to interact with the world, when the player isn't actually IN the world (or an adventurer), and the character would know better than them what they need.

Maybe you're one of those people who enver really gets to play and mainly just knows the game through optimization guides, but realistically speaking AC is generally king. You only have so much protecting you during the normal-tier levels and the people who get high AC perform extremely well. There's not much the DM can do that both circumvents AC and is appropriate for the party.

>normal-tier levels

It still really weirds me out that the PF community plays a lot of very low levels, when he 3.5 community learned that the game functions best at 6-13 half a decade ago and tends towards that, at least online.

Okay, that's a bit of an actual argument, I'll stop spewing shit for a while. I don't find browsing a list of mundane equipment to be a huge inconvenience, and I like going shopping ingame during Session 0 or whatever to purchase whatever it is. Plus, since the stuff has actual, legitimate uses in surviving the wilds, especially spyglasses/telescopes which can hugely boost Perception, I feel that it's better to quantify that sort of thing. The default adventurer's outfit says it's already customizable and comes with all sorts of bits and bobs as desired, so I don't mind some guy having a mundane skillet, a bit of tobacco, a few sheets of paper, whatever. But if someone tries to tell me they suddenly have... a mithral pot that just appeared and they didn't pay for, I would tell them to fuck off. That's a couple pounds of very valuable metal being conjured at a player's convenience, and I wouldn't allow someone to pull solid platinum out of their ass for flavor either.

The item weight and cost is an important part of that to me and our group. Our setting doesn't have bags of holding for example. We play Epic 6 rules though so our campaign never reaches truly high fantasy.

I guess its just differences in playstyle. I don't encounter a lot of the min-maxing problems a lot of groups seem to face in regards to gear vs enemies being absurd or anything. I think our group is probably suited to playing like, 5th edition, but a lot of us find the rules lightness of 5th edition abhorrent, well its not even rules lightness, its like, how you build your character is super restrictive.

If your a cleric you get 1 use of turn on undead. In Pathfinder you can pump charisma and take feats like extra turn undead if you really just want to fucking turn undead. The same goes for skills and items and spells and stuff.

>like discussing how our kitsune is trying desperately to hide his true identity from the rest of the party (including his adopted sister with the donuts).

Yeah, we get it. You mentioned it in the first session. Do we really have to fucking bring it up every 5 minutes?

Also, fuck Kitsune.

>Fuck Kitsune

Feels like that's just exacerbating things.

Don't care. Never met a Kitsune that wasn't a shit character with a shit player behind it.

Ban it, and ban anyone who talks about it.

It was actually two of the other players who conspired for this situation. I was gonna play an edgy shapeshifting swordsman and now everything took a turn for hilarity instead.

Fucking kitsune tends to lead to more kitsune, though. I get that you presumably dislike the furry kitsune of Golarion. So do I. Much prefer mythology-inspired shapeshifting magic fox trickster-types.

I don't like either.

Yeah, seems to be. My group tends to /start/ towards level 6 and we play a much higher-fantasy setup. The setting the game I'm referring to is in is a fairly high-magic homebrew one that in a lot of ways parodies standard fantasy tropes (like everything being shitty). Bags of holding are common, adventurers are strong, most people tend to have really poor immune systems thanks to the existence of magical healing and disease-removal...

Yeah, stuff like mithral pots, I guess, is a bit awkward. However, "surviving in the wilds" is what, a DC 10 survival check without even needing tools? Mechanically, the items don't do much. I'd probably give a player a mithral skillet if they had bought mithral armor or something, though.

I'm sorry to hear that. I expect my current parties would give you an aneurysm desu.

Small sample size. I'm in the opposite boat right now; have yet to meet a shitty kitsune played by a shit player. I guess my sample size is also small.

>Buddy of mine decides to GM, despite never running before.
>He's really fucking excited, basically running a western themed game
>asks me to get on Skype with my sheet for an intro session, to get into character
>Intro session ends after the accidental death of 24 passengers and the destruction of the caboose my character was riding on.
>mfw I'm starting the game with a 25,000 GP bounty on my head
>at Level 5

This is gonna be a fun game.