Arabian fantasy thread

Yeah, they feature pretty heavily in Arab folklore

I used to run Al-Qadim 2e, which shoots for a fairly conventional 1001 Nights setting. It was great fun, particularly the flavourful additions like Station/Law/Haggling/Sha'ir. The setting was a city the middle of nowhere, against an evil Vizier with connections in the desert to the north. It was a blast.

Ultimately interest died out because I wasn't on the same page as the players. I wasn't very good at running the "Arabian Adventures" element, and stuck with urban intrigue and conspiracies for too long. If I return to it in 5e, it'll be more classically "adventure".

Ghouls too.

cool, gotta check that out

>instead of a boring european longsword
You watch your mouth

>suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/18350298/

This old thread on suptg has a bunch of info on traditional Arabian mythical creatures, magic, and other fantasy concepts. I link it because It's simpler than writing out all this info again, but I'm the OP of that thread. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. I've learned more about Arabian folklore in the years since, especially about Jinnistan and the Mountains of Qaf.

Okay, here's the thing: in Arabian folklore, ghouls = ogres. When you read an English translation of the Arabian nights, they often translate "ghul" as "ogre" or "demon." Ghouls are originally an Arabic mythical creature, a lesser type of djinn. The descriptions of them are similar to other Middle Eastern and Asian demon ogres like Divs, Shedim, and Rakshasas: they're shapeshifting hairy monsters that live in the wilderness and devour human flesh. They bear very little resemblance to the modern D&D concept of a ghoul.

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Pic related. These are actually Persian divs, but this is closer to how the traditional Arabic ghoul would have been visualized. That said, there was a lot of local variation. Djinn/ghouls are the Middle Eastern equivalent of fairies, and when you consider all the shapes and sizes fairies can take in European folklore, you'll get some idea of how divers djinn and their ilk could be in Arabic/Middle Eastern folklore.

Zulfiqar was most likely a straight sword tho, Arabs didn't have curved swords back then

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Still the best Arabian fantasy product to come out in the last 15 years,

Bump

Begin posting pictures and art from arabian fantasy

Good shit
youtube.com/watch?v=qZQpkkyRYUQ

>The average person

You do know you're on Veeky Forums right?

pre-Islamic arabian mythology is an area less explored when it comes to fantasy. There is an interesting thing about Bahamut in there I found, which is originally a gigantic fish whose size is so immense, people would fall unconscious upon witnessing it; rather than a dragon. you know arabs those days and the sea were very much connected as they are with deserts.
>en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahamut
>One account describes Bahamut as a fish floating in water, supported by darkness. On the fish is a bull called Kujata, on the bull, a ruby mountain; on the mountain, an angel; the angel holds and supports the seven earths.

Hey, if you are still lurking around here, are there any noteworthy artifacts or items that usually have some sort of magical properties in arabian folklore?

Now on regular basis I diss D&D on every single fucking ocassion I have, but just grab OLD materials for their Al-Qadim and you should be golden when it comes to magic stuff and beasts.
And remember that stuff like ogres, ghouls, rocs and all forms of genies and similar spirits are originally of Arab origin, but then the same D&D twisted them every single possible way.

Since I doubt you have time to read entire 1001 Nights (it's pretty long), just focus on the Sindbad part of it, which itself is shitload of material that can inspire entire settings out of it.

Ive always wanted to run a game in Katapesh. It seems like an awesomely well made region with plenty of diverse activities for players built in.

What and where is katapesh?

Well, let's see. A lot of stuff from Abrahamic mythology carries into Islamic mythology, so you've got plenty of references to things like Solomon's Seal/Ring, and the thousands of jars stamped with that seal in which he imprisoned evil jinn; which is largely were the concept of the genie in a magic lamp comes from. In the 1001 nights you see a number of references to magical statues/machines. The medieval Arabs were fairly scientifically advanced for their time, with well developed alchemic and astrological traditions, and they were also fascinated by clockwork and early automatons. So you get stuff like the moving statues in the City of Brass, or the artificial apple in the story of Prince Ahmed, among others. Persian myth also has a more developed tradition of heroic legends, and there you've got mythical items like the bull-headed mace of Fereydun or the feathers of the Simurgh who occasionally helped heroes. Oh, and there are the Tears of the Karkadann, which aren't particularly magical, but are very rare and magical in origin.

Could you tell more about Solomon's jinn jars, or link a good source where one could get a good general grasp on the story behind them?

Yeah, I remember that Muhammad movie actually shows Zulfiqar as a straight sword shaped like snake tongue.

Easiest thing to do would be to reach the story of the Fisherman and the Jinn from the 1001 Nights:

>bartleby.com/16/201.html

And then maybe read these wiki articles for context:

>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_in_Islam
>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_of_Solomon

There's no one simple source I know of to link that would explain Solomon's Ring, the traditional Solomon narrative, and then the specific Islamic Solomon narrative all together.

Oh, for other magical items/artifacts: The Water of Life and Death. Like I said before, alchemy was a big thing in medieval Arabian culture ("alchemy" is itself an Arabic word) and there's a few legends mentioning the Water of Life, a liquid similar to the alchemic Elixir of Life and also to the Fountain of Youth. It's a mysterious source of water, found in an unknown corner of the world, which restores life or grants immortality. In folktales heroes have to go and find it to cure an ailing king or loved one. There are also a few passing references to the Water of Death, which has the opposite affect, and which some unfortunate heroes grab instead in their haste to bring back a cure.

Oh, and in at least one translation of a 1001 Nights story, there's a reference to a dagger that has been "tempered in the waters of death."

there's a thing about imprisoning Djinns in bottles that Solomon warned about. Never throw them out to sea and instead bury them deep so people won't find them in the off chance they stumble upon them.

Also, read up everything about Solomon from all sources. It's basically a time where the world was a fantasy realm with the Djinns and animals were under his command. Even the Old Testament accounts of Solomon include mechanized brass animals building the interior of his palace to impress the Queen of Sheba iirc

Pathfinder. One of the countries in Golarion.
Check the Inner Sea World Guide for more information.

Although it's interesting, because while the Judeo-Christian versions of the Solomon legend describe him as a flawed hero who was eventually brought down by his own hubris and overthrown by a demon, the Islamic version is heroic through-and-through, and never falls.

All prophets in Islam are like that. Something to do with being an exemplar meant for others to emulate or something. You can't be that if you're flawed. First link from a random search:
questionsonislam.com/article/what-are-common-characteristics-prophets

This might be of interest:
Images from an illustrated version of a 13th-century Arabic treatise
publicdomainreview.org/collections/marvels-of-things-created-and-miraculous-aspects-of-things-existing/

>Sword so strong it comes with an archangel that makes sure you don't overswing and cut the world in two

Neato.

I believe the reason it is less explored because Arab really got on the map post-islam with the caliphates and exotic architecture.

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Is there something smaller than a djinn?

Let's say a Djinn/Genie would be the equivalent to a demon in western mythology, what would be the equivalent to an Imp or some such in Arabian folklore?

Smaller spirits or creatures in general. Might just be me and my ignorance, but there don't really seem to be many of them around.

Don't forget some spinks.

Not all djinn were considered equal. Extremely powerful djinn were called marids, and evil djinn were called shaitan or afrit, but generic djinn were thought to run the gamut. Some were weak and could be bullied or bossed around by greater djinn. Ghouls were generally considered to be on the lower echelon of djinn, more of monster that might threaten you in the wastes, less a being so powerful he might call up his buddies to disassemble your castle in the night, only to wake and wonder where the walls and ceiling went.

But you could also, for example, have a lesser djinni who can't shapeshift into that many forms, can only grow or shrink five inches in each directions, has trouble maintaining his invisibility, and tends to get lost trying to navigate from the Mountains of Qaf to the world of man. This djinni would, by most accounts, be pretty inept, though probably still considered superior to a ghoul

Djinn also have a lot of local variation. In Iraq, for example, you have the s'iluwa, the deyu, the dami, the se'ir, plus the more mysterious beings believed in by the Marsh Arabs. I could describe each of these creatures, and you'd see similar patterns to other types of djinn and ghouls, but they each have their unique local features. And the Marsh Arab stuff is just... weird. I wish there was more written about them.

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I long to know more about the marsh Arab folklore. Swamps are already a spooky luminal place. I gotta know, user!

>Veeky Forums, you know a lot about a lot of things
No, a lot of people here are just perpetually bored out of their skulls and willing to google things for you. You lazy bastard.

bump for marsh arabs

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It's not about the sword, really - Ali is just the ultimate warrior in Islamic views, no warrior, no matter how brave and capable, can get up to his level of competence. He is rumored to have rippe out a gate of a castle in a siege, then used it as a shield against arrows, then as a bridge to get over a moat.

Often on Islamic swords there's the inscription that says 'No Warrior like Ali, No Sword like Zulfiqar' - some sort of self-humbling decoration. No matter how good the smith's blade is, and no matter how strong the warrior is, they'll never reach that level of competence. Like how today's Muslim fighters shout Allahu Akbar whenever they do anything.

It's likely that's what it actually was like. The Zulfiqar was originally a sword of the Jews or idol worshippers - it was gifted to Ali by Muhammad.

Okay, I'll tell you what I know. It's tantalizingly little, though.

So, the marshes of southern Iraq used to cover some 6,000 square miles around the confluence of the Tigris and Euphrates. For a long time these marshes were hope to the Ma'Dan, or "Marsh Arabs", who lived on isolated islands within the marshes and sustained themselves largely by fishing and raising water buffalo. In the early 1990s Saddam Hussein had most of the marshes drained to combat a Shi'ite rebellion in the south. Many of the Ma'dan fled to the cities, but the post Saddam government has pledged to restore the marshes and some of the Ma'Dan are slowly returning.

Most of our info about their folklore comes from the British explorer Wilfred Theisger, who lived amongst them for seven years in the late 1940s to early 50s, paddling his canoe through the narrow canals that curved in eerie silence among towering reeds, hunting the wild and fearsome boar that lurked in those reeds by the thousands.

The Ma'Dan believed in djinn in general and in their ability to take the forms of humans and animals. But they also spoke of strange swamp-adapted djinn, such as the anfish (wooly one? the etymology is unclear) which appeared as a gigantic serpent that was covered in hair or the afa (ruin?) another gigantic serpent with numerous legs. Both were thought to dwell deep in the marshes and were deadly to men.

They also spoke of a mysterious island called Hufaidh, a paradise whose exact location in the marshes was unknown, though it was believed to be in the southwest. Hufaidh was supposed to be covered in palm trees, gardens, pomegranates, and massive, towering palaces rising up out of the marshes. Enormous water buffalo lived there, much bigger than any raised by the Ma'Dan. Anyone who saw Hufaidh was bewitched, and after returning other humans could no longer understand their speech. The island was a dwelling place of the djinn, and they could conceal or reveal it at will.

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There is some sick ninja related equipment in the Middle East. Even the women get in on it

But seriously, there are legends of pale "wild men" coming from the North back in ancient times. They came using straight swords and spoke a very guttural speech akin to demons.

The Tuareg, Bedouins, and other Berber peoples all spoke of them well into the 20th century. Many historians believe these wild-men are none other than the Vandals showing up for a century and settling there after the sack of Rome.

Checked,

and the desert folks in North Africa all held the camel in high regard. They would eat them, however, if important guests came. Even if it meant eating the last camel, they were honor bound to slaughter it and serve the choicest cuts to the guest.

They cared for their camels like the Turks, Mongols, Huns, and other steppe people cared for their horses. In an Arabic/Desert setting, camel care should be a big part of the party. If not by the players, the npc(s) tagging along definitely should.

>In an Arabic/Desert setting, camel care should be a big part of the party. If not by the players, the npc(s) tagging along definitely should.

Islam took well with the desert nomads of Arabia and North Africa: either they were star worshiping pagans or were some kind of Jew or Christian.

Islam's affinity with stars, the lore of an all-powerful God, and its message of strong family values - with a patriarch at the helm - fit right into the desert nomad's culture. Despite what most people say, not EVERY nomadic group was egalitarian: looking at you Jared Diamond.

The stars should be filled with mystic stories. Perhaps a character could speak on the Greek zodiac - or whatever you make up - to entertain npcs. Maybe impress your team with some star knowledge. It'd fit the setting

top kek, and not every desert is stark beige either. Sometimes the sands can have very interesting colors. I know that some pueblo tribes would mix colored sands with animal fat to make a camouflage that would also act as a sunblock. The Spaniards saw them as true "red men"

Much like the pagans of old, people invoked God's favor by covering their armor in holy symbols, prayers, names, and so on.

Despite Islam strictly forbidding the use of faces for fear of being too vain, it did allow for the very mystical use of sigils and symbols. Arabic and Persian armors show this.

Maybe have an armorer with great skill have "magical" armor. Either it truly is blessed by the gods thanks to prayer, or its actual quality is masked by a mystical veil of symbols and prayers

>Islam took well with the desert nomads of Arabia

After the Ridda Wars, maybe. They weren't too hot on it early on.

>Off-ByOne Kenobi

Nobody was to the major religions of today. They all took time to catch on. Christianity through its constant message of love to the poor, Islam's imposing of a religious tax unless you earnestly converted - and genuine continuing of Greek scholarship post-Rome, and Judaism's tight knit familial system. Judaism also provided some kings the ability to sit inbetween the major religious powers of the day. See the Khazars... too bad that isolation also meant no allies

Checked,

Again, the gods have blessed me

Still, the Ridda Wars are a very interesting insight to how the early nomads and Bedouin saw Islam. Initially they sided with Mohammed and converted, but they saw that as a personal deal made with Mohammad, and saw converting as just a thing they had to go along with for the deal. As soon as Mohammad died they went back to their own ways, because as far as they were concerned the deal died with him. Hence the Wars of Apostasy, AKA the Ridda Wars.

Tribal systems of family, government, and even "race" are still strong in the Middle East today. It really hurts the modern idea of a nation state: see Iraq and Syria for two strong examples.

If you have a setting based in Arab lore, this needs to be very apparent. Even inside of a single city, as much as thirty tribes could exist. Of course, they never forget a debt, a murder, or a theft... so the tension could be high between some.

Well, to be fair, the Arabs didn't form these nation states. The borders were all drawn up by the French and British in the Sykes-Picot Agreement. Had it been up to the Arabs, they probably would have drawn borders along tribal lines.

I envy you,user. I've always wanted to DM an Arabian Nights style D&D campaign (3.5, but using Al Qadim as source material), but no fucking body in my vicinity will have any of it, they prefer to run on their generic, pre-generated fantasy settings rather than trying something new.

Yes, you are 100% right on the lack of Arab voices in the formation of the states. But I can't believe that the Sauds would not just take big claims and instead allow the tribes to hold land.

It would not be as bad today, but I also feel the Arab leaders might had taken a lot of land for themselves too. And I can't blame them... screw those savage neighbors lol

One important thing is also the big deal of numbers and letters in Arabic culture. Numerology was a big deal, so was their version of Kabbalah (I got an arabian magic book and it's got more astronomy and numbers in it than fucking Newton' brain), and that added with the ban on lifelike drawings made intricate magical writings pretty much the go-to for decoration. Looks cool *and* keeps you away from the evil eye and black plague.

Yeah, alchemy and astrology were the only "acceptable" forms of magic in medieval Islamic society. More traditional magic, seen as the work of djinn, was still suppressed and frowned upon. Though there were splits even there, as tradition had it that a particularly holy man (like King Solomon) could command and control the djinn through his holiness.

Yeah, I think magic got softbanned through the earth with Muhammad's birth in Islamic worldview. Tradition has it that magic doesn't work the way it used to work, and that the veil between worlds has become stronger - magic from before his birth still stands as it was, however, hence why treasures are hard to get to. Working with djinn was also acceptable so long as you kept to a certain conduct - while the 'elite science' wasn't exactly the brightest area of magic, you could just say you communed with the djinn for the betterment of Islam. Technically, it's not a sin to do magic with djinn so long as you do it in good faith and for the better of others.

>(I got an arabian magic book and it's got more astronomy and numbers in it than fucking Newton' brain)

That sounds right up my street, care to give the title?

The Arabian influence on European astrology and alchemic magic traditions was huge. Both from the works of Arabian scholars themselves and preserving (with commentaries) the work of Greek philosophers on the matter.

It might be one of the biggest results from the 12thC renaissance. Proper astrology was out of favour with the Church and sorely lacking in available texts until suddenly a massive influx of Arabian scholarship hits Europe in the 12thC when it becomes all the fashion.

I think it's called the Shams al-Maarif (Sun of the Scholars), it's mostly using djinn to do your bidding - when the sun and moon are right and you write the letters necessary and plant it in a good spot, you can get someone to fall in love with you, etc. There's also some stuff about making djinn servants, but it's surefire way to hell-tier, and I, being a believer, didn't want to dabble too much into the book.

>shaitan
That's strange since "Szatan" is a quite common name for a devil in slavic countires.
It sounds almost exactly the same

Or you know just Satan in the Bible and stuff

I thought you meant a modern book explaining the stuff, but that is a heavyweight actual medieval grimoire.

I both impressed and gutted that there is apparently no proper English translation. I'd love to be able to compare it to the European stuff of the same period.

I have a latin copy of Ghāyat al-Ḥakīm (Picatrix), but sadly my old school latin is nowhere near up to digesting something of that nature.

They all stem from old Hebrew Shaitan, which means "the adversary" although in the original sense it didn't mean Satan (IE a fallen angel) but an angel specifically tasked by God to oppress mankind in order to test that their faith was true.

Hell, Jesus called one of the apostles "Satan" for being an obstinate ass.

This would be as good a time as any to point out that Islam doesn't have "demons" in the Christian sense. In Islam, God made humans, angels and djinn as the three sentient races. Angels have no free will and only serve god, while men and djinn have free will and can do whatever. Men were made from mud or a blood clot while djinn were made from smokless fire, and as a result of their fiery source djinn are more passionate, mercurial, and fickle than humans. When God made man he ordered all angels and djinn to defer to man as the favored children of god, but some of the djinn refused. Their chief was Iblis.

Iblis is the Satan figure of Islam, and djinn who follow him are evil and are called afrits or shaitans. But other djinn are Muslims and obey God's rules (though with some difficulty; they're still djinn after all) and even more djinn remain unaffiliated.

There's no demons, just djinn, who are much more complex a people.

Regarding the earlier discussion of magical items and artifacts in Arabia, there's actually a 1001 Nights story all about finding magical items. It's this one, the story of the Three Princes:

>wollamshram.ca/1001/Dixon/dixon01_03.htm

Three princes all want to marry the same princess, and the Sultan tasks them with each finding a wondrous item. Whoever finds the most wondrous one will marry the princess. One prince goes to Samarkand, another to Vijayanagara, and the third to Shiraz. Each finds a magical item, including a telescope that will show whatever the user wishes no matter the distance, an artificial apple whose odor cures all diseases, and a flying carpet. The story also at one point mentions a magic tent which can expand to shelter an entire army and then neatly fold up and fit in one's pocket.

There are two things of note about this story. One is the variety of locations. The princes travel to India, Persia, and Sogdiana in pursuit of wonders. One has to keep in mind that many or the Islamic empires based out of Arabia could be huge, extending well into Central Asia, and to them the magical places were the lands beyond their borders like India or China. As such you could easily take inspiration for magical items not just from Arabian traditions but from those of their neighbors. A Daoist immortality pill, a bow with an unbreakable string made by Brahma, or even a magic sword forged by dwarves from the far north, all would be acceptable magical items to appear in a 1001 Nights setting. The weirder and more exotic the better.

The other thing to note is the nature of them items. Partly they're just classic fairytale stuff, in the same vein as Seven League Boots and magic tables that produce their own food, simple stuff. But the artificial apple's creation is described in alchemic terms and its life-saving aroma suggests the miasma theory of disease. It and the magic telescope suggest the Arabic fascination with technology and science.

Look at those Lebanese sluts.

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Anons, do you have any book recommendations covering the stuff in this thread? I'm looking for real life history books as well as anything dealing with the myths, magic, science, technology, medicine, beliefs, culture, etc. from the early periods. Not really interested in anything modern, looking more for the ancient and historical periods.

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Well, the actual 1001 nights might be a good place to start.

The Mystical Dimensions of Islam by Annemarie Schimmel can help you set up metaphysics or cultural heterodoxy in your setting. Also just a very good read in general.

Legends of the Fire Spirits by Robert Lebling is an excellent resource for jinn lore.

Read the 1001 Nights story City of Brass. The characters come across an african village that traps loads of old jars in the river and constantly lets the captured djinn loose from them.

Then they come across some Ifrit hero of a foreign army that was in the form of a large multi armed black lion thing and was bound to a pillar out in the middle of the desert for all eternity by Soloman. Soloman also had the king of the djinn in his army during that battle. He was described as some 8 foot tall blue guy with a blue/white beard.

Fucking love City of Brass. Easily one of the top five 1001 Nights tales.

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