Horus Heresy General/hhg/

Given so many people seem to want their legion-specific units in Elites, I can only conclude that there isn't enough good stuff in Elites compared to Heavy Support. How do fix Elites in LACAL (without pushing people even further toward quad-mortars and rapiers)?

Which one ? What does LACAL stand for ?

>so many people seem to want their legion-specific units in Elites
Because it's easier to think of them as "Terminator/Veteran replacements" than trying to fit them in all those RoWs that restrict the number of Fast or Heavy choices you can bring.
Nigga plz -> , that's a good quality spoonfeed.

I think the main thing is that elite terminators can be troops with pride of the legion and Iron warriors have both their special units in heavy support. Plus AoD lets you have 4 elite slots meaning unless you want to spam 4 of the same unit it allows for more versatility to put them there.

I wish to believe this is not a typo, thanks.

Christ. Ok, time to get reading. Did they buff the Champion consul ? I love the designated duel guys but the option from HH1 seems pretty bland and weak.

>Did they buff the Champion consul ?
Nah, he's still a budget Praetor for duels, and in that role some would say he's surpassed by the Delegatus (book 6), who also gets a MC weapon but also has MotL. So, unless the Champion is mounted on a bike or has AP2 on initiative he could very well get killed by a random artificer powerfist sgt.
Note: You don't want your Delegatus in a duel.

DG and AL dice are tied. It's just a shame that the best dice went to the worst legions

There's still much legions to cover, hater user. A fist, an iron skull, a winged sword or an omega are all great ways to represent a six.
Anything but a burning book, really :^)

Who's that?

Tyrants are fine in heavy support, the problem is Havoks are also in heavy support instead of elites, where they should be to compete with other elite dakka choices while tyrants compete with tough dakka choices

>tfw Word Bearers dice are terribad.
Why, FW, why?

It's definitely not Mortarion the Reaper, Master of the Death Guard Legion.

I wish they would at least give him a reroll to hit in challenge or something. I'm on a PC now and checking out the black book.

Champion is definitely a more fluffy choice except in certain situations. What I think of champions is they are force multipliers for legions that have AP2 at I weapons. EC, WS, BA, and UM champs can be nice inserts to squads to give them an extra kick.

>Who is Mortarion?
But it says so right there! What is going on?
Is it Alpharius? :^)
Someone had to stop their sinful hands :^)

Well who is it then?

In the experience of my own group's meta the problem isn't with elites the problem is with heavy support. Far too many of the good choices are heavy support. Laser vindies, fire raptors, deredeos, leviathans.

I hope WB get Gal Vorbak dice that are all mishappen and mutated and flesh colored lumps that can't even roll properly.

Lawl I'm such a baka
*derps*

That'd be nice. Maybe Lorgar can make up sending the Galaxy into the Age of Darkness with some dice.

Tell me, /hhg/, are Ursarax relly worth 60 pts a piece? Especially when for +5 pts you can get a Vorax.
I suspect the reasons go along the lines "Instant Death" and "Jump Infantry"?
>Inhuman speed
Pic related amuses me greatly, especially when EC, former paragons of mankind, can reach I10.

Maybe it's inhumanly slow?
>I10
I thought Speedy could only reach i9.

I'm glad they have frags because I could easily see them not getting frags just due to oversight.

With a Charnabal sabre, that is.

Their probably priced about right, 60 pts for four str 10 attacks, after firing a two 10" volkite beams, while being T5 W3 with FnP and being jump units

Did you miss the giant jet turbines strapped to their backs? Doesn't matter if you swing as slow as an ork and can't sweep if you just zoom at something and eliminate it before the marines even reach it.

>What are Assault marines?

Also inhumanly speedy?

Marines and I10 units aren't human you dipshit. I swear you're just another shitposter.

Nope Speedy Gonzales can reach I 10
>base I 5
>+1 I to base stats (total at 6)
>+1 I for unit on charge (total at 7)
>+1 Initiative on charge from LA rules (total at 8)
>+1 initiative in challenge from LA rules (I 9)
>+1 initiative in challenge from a charnabal sabre (I 10)

Where do the first two come from

It's their resilience combined with power fists and jump packs then. Ok.
>I2
Dunno. Thallax augmentation is awesome fluff though. Brutal af.
Regular humans are I3 (and up to I4). Even MaSade has quicker reflexes, and he's as old as regular humans go.
As for whether or not space marines are inhuman, I guess you're right on that one.
+1 from chargeing, +1 in duels. Both from their LA rule.

What legion looks best out of the box from B@C?

Other than preferring one model over another, is there any real reason to take legion basilisks over legion medusas? I'm trying to build an Iron fire list and I want a reason to run the less common basilisk vs the ubiquitous medusa.

FW character creation and/or upgrade rules for campaigns. Also leads to the hilarious outcome of phoenix guards striking at I 8 on the charge. Fulgrim is apparently just above average in terms of speed compared to some members of his legion.

In case you missed it last thread, BaC is getting discontinued and the units are getting re-boxed for double the price

grab it while you can.

Longer range?

Basilisks seem like they're meant for huge tables as their range can't go beneath 36". Medusa has that AP 2 though.

Thank god i got lucky and got two boxes for a third of the prize recently.
Any reasons given why they are discontinuing them ?

>range can't go beneath 36"
I'm pretty sure they can fire direct no?

To add onto that, Medusas are going to be very close to the opponent's units with 36" range. If the meta runs lots of drop pods, Medusa. If the meta doesn't get past the table within two turns, Basilisk.

iirc, the 36'' minimum applies to indirect fire. Direct fire doesn't have the same minimum.

Most likely theyre making room for another box later this year

Theyre probably going to build up a HH plastic range in this way, with a few single kit releases (plastic spartan/typhon) thrown in along the way

Makes sense i suppose. Still sucks for those that wants a buttload of MKIV armour and egg-naughts

True, and the rumored prices dont look good either

>Mk IV Tactical Squad- $50
>Cataphractii Terminator Squad- $60
>Contemptor-Pattern Dreadnought- $55
>Space Marine Legion Heroes- $50

>mfw those prizes
Fucking hell man

Those are on par with the canadian prices for the current stuff.

So what is that in Aussiebucks?

a little over double what a BaC box costs there now

>plastic
oh god no I dont need any more 40k players showing off their unpainted 40k space marine legions

So I had a thought just a few minutes ago. Some legionaries lived with other legions, and I was wondering what would a World Eater living with the Emperor's Children turn out as? Would he learn how to fence? Would he insist that his chainaxe is his fencing axe? The Bearversor's ancestors are completely unrelated.

fuck off, plastics are good for my wallet and good for growing the community

Calth has grown the HH scene at the local shop hugely (from 5 guys to around 15) and only maybe 2 are WAACfags

completely worth it.

The community doesn't need growth if it's going to be children like you.

>Being an elitist over little army guys

Ok

You have fun with that, I have to get ready for a recreation of Isstvan V apocalypse game in 2 weekends. Gotta get fulgrim and his guard painted up

>Those prices
Might as well just buy a Strike Force from FW then, at least that way I'll get some cool upgrade bits.

Or continue work on my IG and run them as Militia.

>Gotta get fulgrim and his guard painted up
Not the guy you were talking to, but mind showing us what you got?

Some one needs to write a story about the WE who lived with the EC, set at his return to his legion prior to Istvaan.

I sort of want to give it a go as the nitwit who had the thought in the first place. Should Axe Fencer be a specialist or just an average joe WE?

If an specialist, then he should be a melee one. Maybe a champion?
Why was he seconded to the EC in the first place?

yeah i cant wait for little billy and his half built space wolfs and power gamer phil and his commissioned iron warrior to play a friendly game at my local warhammer ™ store ™

>If an specialist, then he should be a melee one. Maybe a champion?
That can work.
>Why was he seconded to the EC in the first place?
From what I know 1k Sons captains had to live with other legions to complete their training, but I don't think the WEs would do the same for their marines. I was thinking that maybe Axe Fencer just got left behind on accident and got stuck with the EC.

You both have valid points

>I was thinking that maybe Axe Fencer just got left behind on accident and got stuck with the EC.
Then maybe the EC he fought alongside took note of his skill and requested he tagged along. The WE didn't mind much.
So it ends up being the EC pointing at him and saying "oooh, so that's what a WE is"
?

Is this WE loyal?

>ooh so that's what a WE is
I keked harder than I should have at this.

I love that pic. Were I to start WE I'm not sure whether I'd go White/Blue or White/Red/Blood.

>So it ends up being the EC pointing at him and saying "oooh, so that's what a WE is"
?
Thanks for the mental image.
>Is this WE loyal?
I'm not sure actually where I want his loyalty to end. I was thinking that Axe Fencer never had time to consider if he's loyal to Angron or Emps but gets sent down to get Virus Bombed anyway.

So how are Ursarax these days? I know they got a points increase in the red book and with the synergy Vorax get with Legio Cybernetica (and the new Arlatax/Homonculex) they don't seem quite as cool as they used to. That said... their models finally came out and they're bitchin'. I want to get some but I don't want to regret it. The coolest looking models still make me sad if they just get shot off the table every game before they get to do their jobs, and my fear is that Ursarax are going to have exactly that problem since they're only T5 and 4+/5+++.

Also, I'm assuming you always give them Power Fists since they're only I2? Seems pointless to use Lightning Claws when all the things they'd want to kill are I4 anyway, and PFs give ID against those same targets. On the plus side it looks like the models actually have the option for either weapon on every model in the set for once so I may just look into magnetizing them.

They seem decent, I am just waiting for those sexy Volterex to come out.

I want to see their rules.

>Volterex
Is that what these things are called now?

>I'm not sure actually where I want his loyalty to end. I was thinking that Axe Fencer never had time to consider if he's loyal to Angron or Emps but gets sent down to get Virus Bombed anyway.
Aight, loyalties don't matter to this eater of worlds: he's pissed and it was Angron who did it, and he won't shy away from teaching what "left-behind-picked-up-by-ECs-and-then-bombed" pattern pissed means, is that so?
Maybe he was too busy hanging around with his EC buddies (that's how he arrived to Istvaan) that he couldn't sate his need for retribution from his gene sire, that'd explain how he didn't end up like pic related?

Yeah that can work.

>what would a World Eater living with the Emperor's Children turn out as?
The WS 9 World eater special character you could build.

In all seriousness my guess would be some sort of aggressive finesse. EC were known for using axes too, they used any nice weapons, so aesthetically I imagine he would be a World Eater with some more fancy looking armour and some sort of fancy power axe as a paragon blade. His behavior IMO would end up being something like an aspect warrior, outside of battle he is surprisingly calm, intelligent, and cultured, perhaps taking up art like many of the EC do but in battle his war face goes on and he is a savage killer, still as intelligent and clever as before but now his intelligence is dedicated towards combat, noticing the weaknesses in an opponent and taking them apart bit by bit.

>responding just to call people elitists

>I don't think the WEs would do the same for their marines
A lot of legions seconded marines to other legions, Sigismund spent time with the World Eaters. I imagine it might have been something like a cultural exchange.
>Horus introducing Angron to Fulgrim
>Neither of them like each other, Angron thinks Fulgrim is a bitch, Fulgrim thinks Angron is a dumb savage
>Fuck it, each of you swap 16th company captains or whatever for five years, maybe you can learn a lesson about friendship or something

I was thinking that to him the whole bloodlust chainaxe to the face philosophy is just a tool to get his job done. The job being the Great Crusade.
Didn't Amit also spend time with the World Eaters?

>Alright, you can move around and pack a devilish riposte, but that rusty axe will do you no good. *Grabs the axe* You call this "Master crafted"? Ohohoho, good heavens no dahhling! I think we could lend you some weapons from the surplus armory *Opens a door containing weapons like pic describes*
>"Grrrr"
>Suure, you can attach that filthy chain to them as well

>the whole bloodlust chainaxe to the face philosophy is just a tool to get his job done
Sure but at the end of the day it is probably faster and easier to just parry a blow and behead your enemy with a single blow when he is open over hacking away mindlessly until you get a lucky hit.

True but to this World Eater his chainaxe is the all purpose multi-tool. It's his wrench, his hammer, his TV remote, his plunger, his spork, his fishing pole, his marriage counseling tool, and xeno remover. All it depends on how he uses it.

...

So EC would fine him a fancy chainaxe, one that's AP 2 or rending or some shit. They might even give him the chainaxe equivalent of a charnabal sabre.

>All it depends on is
Fixed.
Exactly this or for a more hilarious mental image a chainaxe that's basically a Swiss Army knife.
>They might even give him the chainaxe equivalent of a charnabal sabre.
Why not just pimp his axe to make the chainaxe equivalent of a charnabl sabre?

>Why not just pimp his axe to make the chainaxe equivalent of a charnabl sabre?
His axe is doomed to look like shit. Better start from scratch. Every EC needs to learn arts, the transfer students can learn weapons manufacturing, he can make his own chainaxe from scratch.

Or he could just use a paragon blade and a pair of falax swords. Hard to get more weeaboo than running around with more than two swords plus it means he could get up to 9 attacks on the charge (granted they are AP 5 rending attacks but for practicality he still has the paragon blade).

This is what I am having done for my Death Guard now. I still need to order support vehicles dreads and flyers. I do not think I need more infantry. What all should I add? I am thinking 3 spartans, 2 sicarans, 1 flyer of some kind, 6 rhinos, 4 more contemptors, a derdeo. For superheavies I am thinking fellblade and typhon. Should I get more leviathans?

mortarion
10 grave warden
10 deathshroud
10x lascannon marines
Leviathan Dreadnought (phosphex discharger, heavy flamers 1 drill 1 claw)
9x Space Marine Rapier Quad Mortar
Space Marine Apothecary Set
Cataphracti Terminators x10 loaded with plasma and a few chainfists
calth box chaplain turned into Durak Rask
calth box chaplain turned into praetor with chainfist and paragon blade
calth box contemptor 2 kheres
calth box contemptor 2 fist
10x autocannon marines
10x heavy flamer marines
38x marines with boltor, pistol, cc weapon
2x sergeants
6 flamer marines
6 melta marines
6 plasma marines

I was thinking about him just having the following.
>Paragon blade in the shape of a chainaxe
>secondary and redundant chainaxe that's just an ordinary chainaxe in case of emergencies
>ornate combat knifes made space ivory
Haven't thought of what to give him as a gun.

>His axe is doomed to look like shit
Looks are a factor...are you going to draw it? For all we know we could imagine a "charnabal weapon" axe instead of the stricter charnabal sabre, the same way if happens to Paragon blades.
Pic related only exists on ant size, I'm afraid, but it's aptly named.

That right there is fine even if it's for ants.

I think the set up of the story should be that our WE is returning home and he's all like "great I can't wait to get back to my legion and away from those soft ECs and fighting wars like a proper astartes again." And he gets back and all the World Eaters are like "When did Captain Eidred "Blood clot" Kaxxur become such a fucking dandy? And wtf is a fencing axe?"

We could have both scenarios if we want to, as in, Kaxxur Fencingpants finally reaching surviving WEs after Istvaan and then they barely recognize him (as he's no longer caked in blood all the fucking time)
>Just because it has a handle doesn't mean you NEED to use it as a club, Axton! Don't make it like you don't know what a fucking parry is!

>When did Captain Eidred "Blood clot" Kaxxur
And now I have a name for this git.
>become such a fucking dandy? And wtf is a fencing axe?"
It's a weapon for a civilized marine.

>only T5 and 4+/5++
>forgetting W3
>only

Them dollarydoos prices will hit ya right in the kangaroo pouch.
Crikey.
It's not much better in burger tickets unfortunately.