Why aren't you playing Age of Sigmar?

>WHFB is dead. Long live WHFB.

Your game is shit and will never be good, get over it already you cunt

Your dog is dead, get over it.

Rules "clarifications." So have they "clarified" that when they said you could get bonuses for having a more impressive mustache or pretending to ride a horse, they actually meant something completely unrelated to what was actually written?

Also: Sounds like story hasn't been fixed at all.

...

The story is cool.
Sorry you don't have a fucking sense of humor about joke rules. Wargaming isn't this super serious hobby you want to believe it is.

The three rules of one.

Summoning rules.

Your dog is dead and it was a shitty dog anyway.

So do sudden death rules still favor small elite armies, and does the game actually have composition rules that make armies actually look like armies? Have engagement rules been adjusted so everything isn't just a mosh pit in the center? Can scarabs still burrow indefinitely? I assume that this is just a troll thread.

There are limits on certain things and army composition rules.
Nagash is a 1 per army model, etc.

>Wargaming isn't this super serious hobby you want to believe it is.

I agree, but when I hang out with my friends we make our own jokes and our own fun. We don't need GW awkwardly trying to make jokes for us, especially ones that go stale within a game or two.

There are like 50 different scenarios at this point, if you and your opponent end up in a mosh pit in the middle, that's your decision.

>Sorry you don't have a fucking sense of humor about joke rules

Now I know you're a literal paid shill for Games Workshop. Or maybe you're repaying a favor or something. No real human being has actually laughed at any of the "joke rules" unless they were laughing at how stupid GW had to be to actually put them into a real, actual rulebook for their game. Warhammer (and 40k) was a joke when it was made - but back in the day it was a *good* joke.

>I am a humorless cunt.

You know they are completely optional right?

Crying babies pls go, WHFB sucked, was failing left and right and this new game is on the road to success.

Cry more bitches

If WHFB was good, it would still exist.

Couldn't you post a pdf or something so we can how "fixed" it is?

As opposed to every other game which actually make sure that things don't turn into sloughs (Short of historicals in era where that was the standard of course)? It looks like it is just the game and its poorly designed rules more than anything.

I still have a hard time believing that a game that is supposedly for the hobbiest lets bases overlap.

But 9th Age and Kings of War exist.

>But 9th Age and Kings of War exist.
And they are just as shit...

Enjoy your stagnant game. It's going to be very boring once everyone figures out the "best in category" models and only plays those.

He's probably just a sunk cost fallacy retard.

>ready to get into a new game/spending addict
>jump headfirst into AoS before it was clear how insanely bad it is
>defend it like a retard until it inevitably get's axed

>The General's Handbook fixed EVERYTHING
Just like Pathfinder fixed everything wrong with 3.5 D&D, huh?

It's pointless to argue with WHFB people. Nothing will appease them short of bringing back WHFB. They won't even try AoS, but that's okay because they were toxic to the community and it's growing without them.

Not true. GW killed WHFB through a series of bad design decisions. It had the foundation/framework for a good game.
It also had 30 years of history.

Regardless of which side of the fence you're on, GW killing WHFB, especially in the manner they did - was one of the worst decisions they've ever made. A colossal blunder that cost them a lot of customers, and damage to their reputation that may never be forgotten.

Fucking this^
WHFBfags ruined their game and now are salty that Sigmar fans are enjoying a great game.

>Crying babies pls go, WHFB sucked, was failing left and right and this new game is on the road to success.

WHFB was failing, absolutely. But AoS is failing more.

All hail the 40k Master Race.

Lol...relax, you weren't that important to GW's bottom line. If they needed you they would have done something to appease you. Clearly that is not the case. You don't matter and the rest of us are enjoying AoS and 40k.

>If WHFB was profitable, it would still exist.

Fixed that for you.

And it does still exist. I don't see Age of Sigmar: Total War being made. Vermintide and Man O War are also both WHFB games, not AoS.

Maybe the problem is that Games Workshop just doesn't understand how to write good rules, not that Warhammer Fantasy was all bad.

>4 pages of rules
>oh hey this might be nice
>except literally every unit in the game has up to half a page of special shittery
>it's designed to interact with the special exceptions of other units in the army
>sometimes they actually interact best with units that aren't even in the same army
>in order to properly grasp what the ever-living fuck this game involves I read 300+ pages of rules and by the time I finish everyone within 50 miles of my house has sold their Fantasy and then 40k in the fear it will be sacrificed as well
An underappreciated reason why this game is so dysfunctional is that you can have a good grasp of the main rules and your army rules and still have to set aside a disgusting amount of time just to understand what game your opponent is playing against you. All about them sick combos and stacking special rules. No design team could ever have made so many pages of rules sensible.

If I wanted to experience this I would play Magic the Gathering.

You know video games take years to develop right?!

No, GW ruined their game.

I am genuinely enjoying the unfiltered nerd rage over WFB being dead.

Oh please, GW was just listening to the masses since 6th edition

>LESS HEROHAMMER
>MONSTERS TO GOOD
>CAVALRY TO GOOD

And that's how we got 8th edition, where it's two lines of infantry mashing against each other with artillery killing any interesting model.

Wait.

So you would have prefered it if it was just generic stat blocks for everyone and no real army was unique?

Do you have autism?

I'm a dyed-in-the-wool WHFB fan, and I've played AoS.

It's nothing special.

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with the game. It's just...a different game. There's no real 'better' or 'worse' between AoS and WHFB. It's like saying 40k is better or worse than WHFB. They were two different games with different play styles, even if they shared a lot of similarities.

The main problem WHFB fans have with AoS, I think you'll find, is really with GW and not the game itself.

Completely burning a long standing fanbase in an attempt to shovel a new product onto them was a crass and poorly thought out move. The vitriol that a lot of WHFB players feel for AoS and it's fans stems from this - not the game itself.

I mean, imagine if Blizzard turned around and said "We're taking down all our WoW servers and discontinuing everything to do with Warcraft but here, enjoy our new game Craftwar!"

GW has people so angry at each other that we're forgetting we should be angry at them.

I'm not angry at GW. I like AoS.

>WHFB was failing, absolutely. But AoS is failing more.
Source?

>Like AoS
>Not angry at all

AoS has allowed them to do tons of things WHFB didn't.

I prefer the Kings of War mindset--a simple yet fully comprehensive ruleset that someone can learn in 10 minutes, with just enough army variation to make them feel different. KOW appears to be a stronger and more elegant mass battle game than AOS appears to be a good skirmish game.
>hurr apples to oranges
The endpoint of a tabletop game: is this fun? KOW knows what it is doing and accomplishes it. AOS does not. To use an analogy it's like comparing The Room and Alien. They are different genres but it's still clear that only one achieved what it wanted in life. Fuck, I hate the idea of 28mm mass fantasy battle but I still just never liked AOS.

ITT retards spewing bullshit.
WHFB was still turning a profit when they axed it.
WHFB was always ICv2 top 5, AoS doesnt even register.
9th Age and KoW have blown up since WHFB died. Community still alive.
Fact is, AoS has failed hard so far, regardless of what you dipshits choose to believe.

Works in KoW. All unit special abilities are global and listed in the rules book. The armies are still distinct, too.

>Completely burning a long standing fanbase in an attempt to shovel a new product onto them was a crass and poorly thought out move

This is the part your wrong about, they didnt want the Fantasy players at all, those players bought their models back in 6th edition and flat out werent buying anything after. This was a move to gain new customers and cash in on the skirmish style of games like Warmachine where there were basic rules, and then every unit came with their own abilities.

They want an ever evolving meta and story so they can get people to constantly want to invest in new shit over cycles instead of Fantasy, where everyone had their core armies already and were only going to buy a few of the new toys... for 3 editions straight.

In this case, you can have your cake and eat it too, special rules aren't the only way to make armies unique - and anyway having a FEW of them is still good design.
A good example here is Epic:Armageddon. One of the design principles is to avoid too many special rules, armies are defined by what they don't get, and even at the high level of abstraction armies feel different. Ofc that's at a different miniature scale.

>M-Muh KoW

I thought so, basically the most soul-less game in existence.

Absolutely. Like I said, there is nothing wrong with AoS.

Those who are angry aren't angry at a new game - no one is forcing them to play it. They're angry at a multinational company burning a 30 year fanbase for potential profit.

If you think AoS special rules are hard to understand, I think it's clear you're a fucking moron.

Heaven forbid people learn about their own army and how to wield it.

Those fucking storm casts would fly off the shelves if they made a conversion kit for them.

"here's a sprue with all the pieces you need to turn the stormcast uber badasses into the GREATEST OF SPACE MARINES!"

I'd buy fucking ten!

That 30 year old fanbase did nothing but drag that game into the ground and stifle any and all creativity.

WHFB was the cesspit of the most terrible of GW puritans.

>They want an ever evolving meta and story so they can get people to constantly want to invest in new shit over cycles instead of Fantasy, where everyone had their core armies already and were only going to buy a few of the new toys... for 3 editions straight.

Which is fair enough. At the end of the day GW is a company and wants to remain profitable. But burning bridges was a bad way to do it.

They should have just pushed WHFB into the Specialists game section and brought out AoS. The fact that players can't go into their local GW and play WHFB now is a massive dick-move after 30 years of support.

Dude, get over it. Or don't. Either way, we don't care.

Is AoS grimdark? I never really Warhammer Fantasy because I'm not a big fan of "OH THIS WORLD SUCKS THERE"S NO HOPE FOR IT WOE IS ME"

Hard? Hardly, but there's a ton of them.
When both armies have so many special rules, it's hard to predict what your opponent will do, not because of tactics or strategical depth, but because (at a casual level) you don't know his special rules as well as he does, and researching them would be time consuming and not always straightforward.

It's the difference between system mastery, and strategy.
AoS requires high system mastery, but basic strategical mastery. There are games that do it the other way around.
In the end, it's a matter of preferences, but I'd rather NOT have to deal with excessive system mastery in my wargames.

no its a high fantasy setting

chaos is dominant but sigmars stormcast are leading the charge to reclaim their lands

>it's the customers fault GW allowed corporate suits to make bad design decisions that affected sales

Good little consumer.

>Why aren't you playing Age of Sigmar?

Because you guys keep butting into threads for other wargames and are caustic as fuck.

No. It's a dark setting but it's not grimdark.

AoS is about hope and renewal. It's about the forces of Order rising up and pushing back the tyranny of Chaos, reclaiming what was lost and exacting retribution for the crimes of the daemon and the damned. Basically, it's the "Great Crusade".

Its actually the complete opposite: Sigmar is actively fighting Chaos, and is pushing back the darkness.

This is one of the many reasons hardcore WHFB fans hated it.

Sounds a lot better than I thought. Thanks anons. Is there an RPG system out for it yet?

Not yet. Does have a heroquest though.

>This is one of the many reasons hardcore WHFB fans hated it.

No, blowing up the Old World is one of the reasons hardcore fans hated it.

If they had just said 'The warpgates are open, Sigmar is back and he's leading armies into the Realms of Chaos to take the fight to them', WHFB fans would have loved it.

Blowing up a 30 year old setting that was full of rich history, amazing stories and wonderful characters - and a shit load of potential that they still hadn't explored - was painful.

Fuck, I still want to know if there was an underwater race of fish-people in the Old World.

No RPG yet, but last I heard someone was working on a FATE adaption for it.

Did it actually fix the overly simplistic rules?

>This is one of the many reasons hardcore WHFB fans hated it.
The main complains about AoS were mostly in department of rules (over)simplification and the old setting getting scrapped. But besides that you got a point, many oldschool players were rooting for Chaos. Some years ago GW made campaign where outcome of the final tourneys should be reflected in the story. Chaos won so hard GW had to retcon the whole thing.

>The General's Handbook fixed EVERYTHING

And if you believe that, perhaps you'd be interested in purchasing a bridge in Brooklyn, NY.

>If they had just said 'The warpgates are open, Sigmar is back and he's leading armies into the Realms of Chaos to take the fight to them',

That's retarded. You cannot invade the Realm of Chaos where there are infinite amount of daemons and where the Chaos Gods are omnipotent.

>Fuck, I still want to know if there was an underwater race of fish-people in the Old World.

There was a Cthulhu-ish fishmen race in one of the universes that Archaon invaded. He wiped them out from existence.

>Some years ago GW made campaign where outcome of the final tourneys should be reflected in the story. Chaos won so hard GW had to retcon the whole thing.

Was that the Albion campaign? I was never sure who won that.

I know that the Storm of Chaos worldwide campaign was a massive win for Order - Chaos kept getting it's ass handed to it.

If you mean SoC, then no. Chaos did not win that.

Newfag.

>That's retarded. You cannot invade the Realm of Chaos where there are infinite amount of daemons and where the Chaos Gods are omnipotent.

No, saying "That's retarded, you can't do X" is retarded. It was a fantasy setting, user. They can do whatever they like with it and make it work.

>Was that the Albion campaign? I was never sure who won that.

Nah, Be'lakor did not achieve his final objective. Order prevented him from getting the crown but he managed to gather enough power to partially restore his body.

No, there are things that are established in the game setting since forever. One of those things is that the races of the WHFB world and their gods are so tiny and insignificant to Chaos it's beyond funny.

Indeed. The very act of mixing it up with Chaos just makes it stronger, like quarreling with the spirit of Col. Stinkmeaner.

>Not getting how fantasy works.

So if that's the case, how is Sigmar taking the fight to them in AoS?

Hmm...let's run down the list.

There was the Dark Shadows campaign that gave us more detail about Albion and Be'lakor.

There was the Storm of Chaos that had Chaos get it's ass handed to it hard.

Nemesis Crown was next but...what the fuck was that about? Did it have any impact on anything? I think the Dwarf armies got a Powerfist Special weapon out of it?

And then there was the Scourge of the Storm which the Vampire Counts won.

Yeah, I don't think Chaos won a single fantasy global campaign.

>Chaos get it's ass handed to it hard.
Grimgor headbutt?

To be fair to both of you, in AoS Archaon is still the BBEG and is pretty solidly undefeatable in the setting as of now.

Chaos can lose, that is fine. No one is marching into the realm of chaos itself, they are just trying to purify the remains of the mortal realms.

>Chaos won so hard GW had to retcon the whole thing.

If you're talking about the Storm of Chaos, the real situation was thus;

>GW announces a global campaign, where players results would influence the setting and drive the story.
>GW had plans for Chaos to win big and had made preparations to this effect.
>GW releases army lists for the event that give some nice bonuses to Chaos, making their armies somewhat OP.
>Results start coming in, Chaos is losing a significant portion of it's games.
>GW pulls a GM Fiat and pushes the story forward anyway, eventually allowing Chaos to reach Middenheim.
>Final results come in and the overall victor of the Storm of Chaos was...Orcs, I think?
>Archeon packs up his ball and goes home.

Then they retconned it all with the End of Times stuff that capped off the Warhammer Fantasy setting.

Personally, I like the Endhammer take on it all. It's what my gaming group use for our RPing and tabletop shenanigans.

>how is Sigmar taking the fight to them in AoS?

He is taking the fight to their servants and trying to drive off their corruption from the Realms. Even in AoS, the gods and races of the setting are insignificant to the Chaos.

You won't see them challenging the Chaos Gods directly or invading their realms with armies because they will get their asses kicked harder than what already happened.

I mean the fact Archaon can fight and defeat gods on his own, and Greater Daemons can sometimes fight on an equal live to these gods, should raise flags that the Chaos Gods operate on whole different level. Their disunity and madness is the only thing that allows the mortals to win and hold them back.

equal level*

>Chaos can lose, that is fine. No one is marching into the realm of chaos itself, they are just trying to purify the remains of the mortal realms.

Sounds like they could make something like that work. The Warpgates were originally used to transport between worlds before everything got all fucked up. No reason they couldn't write in a way that Sigmar 'fixes' them or something and uses them to get to the different Realms as shown in AoS.

Grimgor was the best character GW ever produced.

There.

I said it.

>Grimgor was the best character GW ever produced.
Not while Veskit, High Executioner of Clan Eshin existed.

>There was a Cthulhu-ish fishmen race in one of the universes that Archaon invaded. He wiped them out from existence.

In an existence of infinite universes, there exists another WHFB setting that continues on.

But trolling aside, is the multiverse as depicted in AoS an infinite one? I mean, good on Archaon for wiping out existences and what not, but if there are an infinite number of them...so what?

>the gritty relatable stories

People have bandied this about for ages with regards to Fantasy and how it was about normal humans versus the world. It only just occurred to me recently that the people who bring such things up must play Empire or play the RPG, because that is the only time such things apply.

Bretonnia doesn't count because the majority of the army if well armored noble knights, some of whom have been enhanced by the powers of their goddess.

>It got rid of the Maximum Copyright faggotnames

GW isn't doing it for copyright, you'd think people would have wised up to it when the new edition of Bloodbowl uses Elves, Dwarfs, and Orcs.

It's a style choice to try and put their own brand on things. Same reason Space Orcs became Orks, Space Elves became Eldar, Goblins are Grots, Ogres are Ogryn, Halflings are Ratlings, and Dwarfs are Squats

>So do sudden death rules still favor small elite armies

I think depending on the scenario, the sudden death rules aren't used.

>does the game actually have composition rules that make armies actually look like armies

Depends on what you mean. If you mean an organization system like 40k, than yes it has that. If you mean needing to fulfill a certain percentage and units lining up in neat rows of 20+ models because anything less is worthless, then no.

>Have engagement rules been adjusted so everything isn't just a mosh pit in the center?

Fantasy was this too though, particularly because it seemingly had no real objectives besides kill points and armies were literally lined up across from each other with the ability to really only go forward.

Don't get me started on the Storm.

Chaos was LOSING SUBSTANTIALLY.

I was in that campaign. I played every weekend because I knew it was big and I knew that I had to do my part for the Empire.

We held the fucking LINE for the entire campaign and the league I was in kept in touch with other big groups on the East Coast and it was pretty much similar all over the place. Chaos was losing big.

Then, at the end... One, you have Grimgor Ironhide headbutting Archaon to death before fucking off back to the Border Princes... and two, the village we spent six weeks holding? Gets barely a foot note saying how easily over run it was.

I was pissed. And I'm pretty sure that's the last time I played Fantasy.

Like the joke rule where you win the game on a roll of a seven on a d6 right? And introduce a character that makes the result of a die roll whatever you want right? Whoops. It's just a prank user.

There is nothing a GM can do to hurt a player deeper than saying that your actions matter before pissing all over them.

The Mortal Realms are near infinite and spans the cosmos and interlap with each other and other realities.

As for the Multiverse? No much information other than that Arcchaon spent his time warring and conquering from one universe to the next until the Chaos Gods convinced him to lead their armies in the Mortal Realm.

When will we get the 40k crossover?

I would honestly be okay with AoS if Archaon wasn't being wanked so fucking hard.
Reading page after page about how he effortlessly smashed everyone and everything he ran into is so boring.

After the 40K end imes.

>start playing Mordheim:CotD
>get interested in whfb
>find out gw did away with that setting and its rules and replaced it with some weird mythological mumbo jumbo

Well fuck. GW could've at least waited for me to start playing whfb before making a new game. I'll just wait for them to get battlefleet gothic going again I guess.

He lost a battle to Malerion.

Also forgetting the part where gw expects you to pay (on average price of book by # of scenarios) 10 bucks per scenario, for their super cheap and easy to get into game where you can just get a box of skeleton dudes, plop them down on the table, and end up in a moshpit in the center, unless you're willing to pay double what you did on the dudes, on a textbook sized fluff book with 20 pages of crunch. Which is what made AoS so good, lauded even, was that they didnt have that. Good shit man