Pathfinder General /pfg/

Zealots can outperform multiple tier 3 characters at the same time. Their ability to defend a party is so high it warps play hugely, while not sacrificing offense. A zealot standing in place and using a ranged discipline (which they get tempest gale as a class discipline) will outbuff a bard while outfighting an inquisitor, at the same time.

Their recovery mechanic is the strongest of initiating classes (arguably). It means if the zealot stands still (which they can if they used a ranged discipline) they effectively can just keep using strikes/counters/boosts as much as they darn well please.

Basically they warp play with their efficiency, and in combat will outperform even tier 1 characters (unless the tier 1 characters have a lot of prep).

We just started recently, so he's still pretty low leveled, but
>Night Terror Vigilante
>famous and respected carpenter who teaches people all over the world by day
>hero of the common man who strike fear into the hearts of evil with using the tools of his trade as weapons by night
>pic related

Repost from last thread.

So how many TO complete methods still exist in pathfinder. I know that Wish and Planar Binding are TO complete still, but is there anything else still lurking?

Simulacrum probably is, depending on what you make a simulacrum of.

I've seen some rough holes in the rules, but nothing yet has been quite as worrisome as some of the old infinite spell or infinite stat builds of 3.5.

What's the most aggressive powergaming you're aware of in pathfinder right now?

So would you say a "no ranged weapons" clause might tone it down?
They could fluff it as the zealot having to enter the fray himself to feel the passion to fuel his powers.

She's a barbarian queen whose tribe disappeared while she was leading a hunting party.

No, because of the number of repositioning strikes that exist and ways to move around during combat. 90% of the time after the initial charge you're not super worried about your movement.

A Zealot need only recover maneuvers every few rounds (unless they spam 1, which is only a strategy in specific situations). They can make their zeal last multiple rounds.

Having to move one of every 3 rounds is what you should expect in combat. Plus in emergencies where you have to do it more you can cheat out extra movement.

TO?

Infinite stats is very difficult to attain in PF. Aggressive power gaming is now like "I'm a wizard with 54 Int with a save you can't pass under any circumstances".

He's short for a half elf, has a ridiculous hairdo, and is very easy to piss off. It totally has nothing to do with how he never really knew his human mother, or how his fullblooded elf sister got more attention. He's just destined for great things, and he's gonna make sure the rest of the party shares that fortune, even if they don't want to!

Except not, because that game is kill.

Theoretical optimization. Which is the most that the rules can allow at all. As opposed to PO, or practical optimization, which is the most that is likely to be useful/allowed in a game.

TO complete is a shorthand phrase used to describe any rules use/abuse that allows you to leap towards completing theoretically any other desired task.

Wish, planar binding, and simulacrum are all TO complete because they can be used to begin a chain of infinite wishes, wish by creating a simulacrum of an efreeti, simulacrum by the same, and planar binding by calling one. Although those are not the only way those three spells can be used to start such a chain.

tfw you join a group late so they cook up a character for you in like 30 mins and it's heavily bizarre. They needed a ranger and some light buffers, so now I'm playing a Str build Ranger who wields a pickaxe and is forgoing the animal companion for the other option.

what do my friends, what do

The only "infinite stats" character that I'm aware of would be the level 20 Nature Oracle using Awaken over and over, and even that is quite shaky in both setup and execution.

>Tell us about your character edition
I'm a NG Warder//Empath (Rune Seer variant) Gestalt. It plays kind of like a Zealot, I'd imagine. I focus heavily on supporting my allies and locking down my enemies with Reach-Warder shenanigans. Thanks to Empath the support I bring is pretty novel and esoteric, and doesn't step on the toes of our dedicated support character.
My martial tradition is Wayward Path. I travel around the world doing good deeds and write about them in my book. Headstrong and stubborn, I do my best to right wrongs and make sure good people get good lives - even if it costs me my own. Right now the party's being called into stopping some kind of nefarious sorcerer's plot to do... something? This new plot line has just started developing last session, and we haven't received any exposition yet.
I'm about as much of a tank as you can get in PF, being able to literally aggro enemies in various ways and reliably prevent them from moving, all while stacking all kinds of debilitating conditions on them. At one point I had so much crap applied to a big-ass Ogre that the GM just made the poor thing throw down it's weapon and give up, because it sure as hell wasn't going to be doing anything for the rest of the fight.
I've played a bunch of different characters, but this is definitely my favorite, as a character and as a character sheet. It's amazing fun to play both in and out of combat, and it has tons of little tricks up it's sleeve that keep coming in handy. Being able to see how someone feels thanks to symbols floating around their head leads to some really cool RP, too. In fact, all of Empath leads to cool-ass RP. Lovin' it.

One of my friends calls my character Emotion Paladin.

Man I've really wanted to play in a Gestalt game, but can't find one. How do you guys fine Gestalt games?

>Advertisement for E8 game
>Starting level 6, DSP content allowed, Mythic is in play starting at Tier 1
>We're playing the avatars of dead gods, whose remaining spark of divinity has found it's way into a mortal coil
>He wants us to include Domains, implying we'll become the objects of worship later on
>Look through the other applications
>Literally all of them are some variation of "I'm the God of Magic" or "I'm the God of Darkness" or even "I'm the God of Technology."

I need your help, lads. I don't quite know exactly what sort of god I want to make, but I'm feeling something similar to The Nameless King or Gwyn, Lord of Sunlight.

Any suggestions on Domains and class?

Should I go for a Zweihander Sentinel with Elemental Flux and Piercing Thunder to become the King of the Storm?

Ulfenboo Chelaxian Unchained Rogue who's also starting to become a bit of a Tianboo as he's attempting to learn anime fighting techniques such as "sensing an enemy's killing intent" and "feel the enemy's presence without seeing them".

Be the god of sports or the god of litigation

Slowly got my group accustomed to it.
It's the only way I could do it, myself.

"The First Ruler"
>Tyranny
>Toil
>Corruption
>Aristocracy
>Espionage

>Be the god of sports

So, a Steelfist Commando Warlord?

That might work if you feebleminded yourself before each awaken so that you qualified again. You're only getting infinite wisdom, but it's still infinite stat. At the end of it all you just remove the feeblemind to get int and charisma back.
I'm not sure if you'd get your original int and charisma or your last int and charisma back, though. Odd thought.

You don't have the right creature type to qualify for awaken.

Shensen (while illegal at any reasonable table) is technically a Paizo developer giving precedent for racial stat adjustments carrying over through reincarnation. Cyclic Reincarnation basically is identical to reincarnation, except that it reincarnates you into a body of the same race. If you play a Human, Half-Elf, or Half-Orc your racial +2 carries over from your previous body to your new body, at which point you add a new +2. Rinse and repeat.

Did Paizo actually expect us to like Shensen?

...

...

I think so? Or at least it seems like JJ expected us to like her, and then whoever else was involved said "nah, make her optional".

The level 20 revelation lets you pick the animal type, allowing you to qualify.

First off, you're getting infinite HD and Charisma, which is your main casting stat as an Oracle. And since you can get your CHA as bonus to all sorts of stuff, your benefit is even greater.

And yes, the whole interaction with Feeblemind is very questionable in terms of final stats. To get around that, you qualify for Awaken with Intelligence Drain, which does actually reduce that stat by RAW.

Goes to show how important presentation is to the acceptance of a developer's former character.

Ameiko was JJ's girl and she's one of the better NPCs in the setting.

Dunno who those two are, but if you want to be a king-god, I'd suggest the following:
Be the God of War or maybe even God of Victory and play a Golden Lion-focused Bannerman Warlord. Pump that CHA and invest heavily into Leadership.
Go into Marshal for Mythic and inspire your men to feats unheard of! A king is nothing without his people, after all.

It ain't gonna compete in power with the Archmage Wizard or whatever else cancer the God of Magic will cook up but it'll definitely be far more flavorful.
For domains go for War, Strength, Glory and Nobility. Maybe also add Trickery to reflect clever war tactics.

Right, /pfg/, how would you fix TWF so that it can keep up with two-handed and sword and board fighter?

That one feat tax homebrew that makes Improved not a thing and consolidates it into Greater TWF, which you can take at level 6..
Then grant base TWF as a bonus feat to any class that has full BAB or that gets finesse.

Not drastic
TWF feats scales with BAB

Double slice is the default

Feats to reduce penalty

Drastic

Kill full attacks. TWF is now the only way to get more than one attack in a round.

What Path of War class is best for a full on Orc?

Like, do you have any other idea for it? My DM's rejected that idea under the false idea that if Pathfinder Vanilla made it, it's balanced

WHICH IT FUCKING ISNT

I'll see if my DM would allow the not drastic stuff

Either way, thanks for the responses thus far

brutal stalker

What are the benefits of STR over DEX?
Two-handed bonus damage, being able to pick stuff up/break stuff easily, some combat maneuvers, skill checks and... Is that it?
If you could choose between them, why wouldn't you go for a DEX build, exactly? Is it because of the feat investment?

Primal Disciple Barbarian.

>ME UNGA
>ANCESTRAL SPIRITS BUNGA
>ROAR
>SMASH SMASH SMASH

>why wouldn't you go for a DEX build, exactly? Is it because of the feat investment?
Because I'm a heterosexual male.

feat investment, damage output, ability to use heavy armor and carrying capacity. Not to mention sometimes dex is not feasible for certain character concepts.

Star requires less investment, does more damage, and it is easier to get really high Str.

Are you implying that every hooded dick-ass thief skulking in the shadows with a dagger is a flaming faggot?
It doesn't have to be a bishōnen sakura samurai.

>feat investment
I'll give you that one, yeah.
>damage output
It seems like DEX can keep up decently enough with STR, if not rival it, if you build right. Especially if PoW is in the cards. It definitely takes a more optimized character to deal as much damage as a STR build, but it seems doable.
>heavy armor
I've played a heavy armor character once. It felt bad being slower than everyone and eating shit against touch attacks. Maybe that's my experience.
>carrying capacity
An Ox costs 50 gp :^)
>sometimes dex is not feasible for certain character concepts
Of course, of course.

>it is easier to get really high Str
Is it? I guess so, actually. That's a good point.

Part of that is because she existed as a minor-but-important character in RotRL, where she was most certainly not in an adventuring capability and could even die if you took too long on the mission in book one. That helped to settle her into the world of Sandpoint, Varisia, and Golarion; so, when Jade Regent rolls around and she's back in the spotlight, people remember as "oh wow, look how much she's grown, she started as a 4th-level schmuck and now she's a full-blown member of the party who's actually likable!" instead of "oh fuck, it's that 12th-level GMPC with all the bullshit attached to her".

Would you say that a wondrous item qualifies as a "masterwork item worth less than 900gp" for the Signature Moves trait?
It does, in fact, cost less than 900gp.

Wonderous items, unlike weapons and armor. Need not be masterwork. Do not necessarily.

Could mine BE masterwork in that case?
How much would it cost to upgrade? 300gp? It'd still be within 900gp in that case.
What would a masterwork upgrade even do to a head-slot wondrous item?
The item in question is Mask of Stony Demeanor, for 500gp.

"Masterwork" isn't defined for items other than weapons, armor, and tools. If the item doesn't fall into one of those categories, it can't be masterwork by strict interpretation of RAW. RAI, I'm pretty sure the intention is NOT to let a PC to start play with a magic item, even if it is a minor one.

didn't those get raised to like 4k gp with the errata?

My GM is ignoring all of the item-nerf shit Paizo did.

Got increased to 8k, and desu it was justified. +10 on Bluff to lie, +5 to feint is most of Bluff's uses, and the -5 to pass secret messages is an avoidable penalty in most cases.

>Mask of Stony Demeanor having a reasonable price
>item-nerf shit
That's implying that the original price wasn't dumb. Which it was. New price is 8000 gp, incidentally, which is still lower than it should be by the guidelines.

It's non-statistical drawbacks are immense for my group's game and I intend to make it impossible to take it off so they'll always be in effect. +10 to lie isn't very useful when nobody trusts a word you say by default.
I want it for flavor purposes, anyway. If you can give me a different item I can start the game with, I'll take that instead.
It needs to be an item that completely obscures every part of my face and requires some kind of combat maneuver to remove, but does not obscure my vision. A mundane mask won't work as my eyes would have to be visible for me to be able to see. I considered a mask + smoked goggles, but the penalty is too much to justify for a flavor thing.

Maybe a 1/day version of the various war paints in PF or 3.5? Or maybe even a 3/day, they're generally not too expensive.

Reminder that the harrow medium is too flavorful to print.

>Too many options

Clerics are fine though.

>too flavourful to print in a hardcover
Meaning their core line. Could well see print in one of their softcovers, the monthly supplements that don't give a SHIT about being flavour-agnostic.

I mean, it's about mixing and matching from what... 52 options? All of them have to be roughly balanced (and do we really trust paizo with that?) With that many options you either have a few choices and make them all more powerful, or choose many options and have them be weaker over all. I'm okay with no harrow medium.

isn't wizard's spell list literally like 400 spells though

And look how balanced that shit is.

yeah so surely 52 "spells" would be a tier 2 or tier 3 class if these same idiots did it because it just doesnt have enough room for bullshit

I mean, more importantly why would we want paizo to make it? They have the midas touch, but only if you replace gold with shit.

I actually really like the harrow deck and am really upset I still don't have a class that actually uses it properly.
Card-throwing classes are pretty garbage and could be done with any cards, not just the harrow deck.

Are there any 3pp Fighter archetypes/fixes/whatever that make it a non-shit class while still maintaining the shower of delicious bonus feats it normally grants you?

>kill full attacks

Well now what are the archers supposed to do?

Myrmidon fighter gets initiating but loses bonus feats at 2, 6, 10, 14, and 18

Fuck archers.

In a similar vein - are there any 3pp classes that give you a bunch of bonus feats like the fighter does?

The problem is that most softcover printings are too small to include something like the 52 options for the harrow medium. It would have to be a standalone release almost just for that one archetype/option, and that's not really how Paizo plays.

DESU, it would be a great web-supplement.

Usually less.
Psychic warriors get an okay number, but they're BAB 15 6th level casters.

Starting my game tomorrow as a Vanilla Alchemist.
It's a setting I helped the GM make, so to prevent me from meta-gaming too much, I'm a middle aged human who's family was killed in a dragon attack while I was away at war. Then the dragon flew west and ended the war (everybody lost but we lost the hardest) Elves took over my country, and now I'm an alcoholic with PTSD whenever anything dragon related shows up. My main goal is gonna be to try and ressurect my dead daughter, which knowing my DM, will end in tragedy. But not my wife, she was a bitch.
I'm so excited

Has anyone in the 3pp biz bothered to try and make a Swashbuckler that isn't rancid garbage?
Aside from DSP's privateer class template thing.
I'm interested in a class that's all about derring-do, taunting your enemies as you parry them, and having swordfights while swinging on chandeliers and shit. But Swashbuckler is complete ass.

Somebody made an unchained Swashbuckler homebrew. It's pretty neat.

The Swashbuckler Unchained homebrew got an update not too long ago. You might like it.

So what's in the update?

Mostly just tweaks on some of the styles, if I recall.

I honestly want to try the Harrower PrC sometime, but fuck if needing a harrow deck doesn't put a damper on that.

The main thing was changing out one of spear dancer style's deeds, since it was way stronger on damage than any other option. Other than that, I think it was mostly fixing little things like missing commas and adding clarifications.

Getting DEX to damage is a pain if it's 1pp only, which most games are. And in addition to more bonus damage from STR, you can use bigger weapons and get more of a return from Power Attack. This extra damage really adds up.

Which is the better option for a crossbowman? Bolt Ace go the Gunslinger or Crossbowman for the fighter?

I'm leaning more towards the bolt ace, especially since our GM said no guns (but didn't say no gunslingers)

Bolt Ace is largely regarded as the only 1p way to make crossbows even close to viable, last I checked.

Five levels in bolt ace, the rest in whatever.

Alternatively, homebrew Crossbow Master as giving dex-to-damage for crossbows.

Crossbowman is actually pretty dang nice if you go for Overwatch Style.

They get dex to damage on readied crossbow attacks, and deny dex on readied crossbow attacks.

And then I think Intrigue added that one feat that lets you ready for a type of action as opposed to a specific action. So 'a standard action' instead of 'casts a spell'

Gnomish sorcerer, pretty alright stats, 20 Charisma, decent everywhere else except strength (8). Level 3.
What spells do you reccomend, /pfg/?

One level of barbarian and then build into dragon disciple. Make sure to take Tantrum.

No multiclassing at the beginning of the game.

Bwuh

Oh wait, sorry, I'm often confused

Really, though, don't feel like getting Barbarian levels at all, nor do I think it'd be very useful. Just wanna play straight Sorcerer.

Am Djinn bloodline btw

depends, what is your Bloodline (and archetype if applicable)?

Now if you wanna take a stab at a recent ruling over in Virginia and Maryland that wasn't too popular with some 'elders', change that 16 to a 12!