>The Pronoun Game:
>Okay, here it is – we use he, him, and his when we’re talking about people playing the game. It just seems weird to alternate pronoun genders within the same book – it makes it feel like the book is written for two different audiences. The masculine pronoun is the standard and right or wrong we’re used to seeing
it. It may not be politically correct, but you can’t please everybody
How based can they be? Are other game designers this sensible usually?
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It's too bad the game sucks.
>singular they has been common usage since the 16th century at least
>it only became a "problem" when self-proclaimed "grammaticists" got a stick up their ass in the 1800s
>people still bitch about it despite singular they still being heavily used in speech and writing, even by people who bitch about it
Reee explain
It's just a product of the times, everyone has to worry about offending someone else.
Singular They was common before singular "you" was - there's actually some hilarious rants by scholars in the 16ths and 17th century who are furious at the "modern practice" of using "you" instead of "thou" (you being the plural of thou, which was the singular equivalent; "what the fuck did thou say about me thou little bitch?" vs. "you all shall regret messing with me!". You was only properly used in a singular sense when referring to royalty as a counterpart to that whole weird "royal we" pluralisation of singular royals as representing the lineage of the royal rather than just themselves, so one criticism of the singular you was that it made the speaker sound pretentious and duplicitous as it gave the air of someone who was trying too hard to flatter the subject that was being spoken to)
The sidebar about book pirating is so annoying and wrecks any goodwill I may have before I even get to the rest of this terrible game.
That's really interesting, actually.
I personally thought it cool that they actually recognized that was a practice. He's not wrong.
>Doesn't do that weird flipping between male and female pronouns
>based
You're easy to please, you know that?
The way he's treating it is based desu.
>explain
While the lolpokerdice mechanic seems really cool at first, it results in EXTREMELY fucky math. Additionally, while the setting as presented in ONLY the corebook seems interesting, every supplement released just makes the whole thing increasingly creepy and fetishy.
JUST USE THE SINGULAR THEY YOU FUCKS
If they actually gave a shit, they'd just use "they" or "his/her" or "his and her" or whatever.
This method is also known as, "What normal people say," or, "People who don't give a shit do this, literally nobody with an IQ over 10 uses male pronouns for everything."
>creepy and fetishy
Sounds like that's a very personal opinion, rather than something that makes the game bad.
Do you have any examples of this fucky math?
>reading Damnation View
>Dr. Simon Tam
Ayyy
"They" also works, but the rest of that shit you wrote is just cringeworthy.
>being high and mighty on a Fijian flip book website
Has anybody here actually played Cthulhutech?
It sounds fucking awesome but i remember hearing that some of the fluff was kinda fetishy.
and math was a little wonky.
but I never saw clear examples of those points.
You forgot to add a few "problematics," "icky"-ies and "gross" in your post.
>Based
You mean intentionally antagonistic and childish? This thread is bait.
Product of it's times? Offending someone?
There was no tumblr in the 1800s. People just up and decided Singular They" wasn't correct. CthulhuTech is intentionally trying to offend, because it wanted to act like girls don't play games. This shit was news back in the 90s when Vampire the Masquerade first did it, but "girls play video games too!?" is such a childish attitude.
Also, the game is garbage and the worst system I've had the displeasure of trying. The setting is a great idea ruined by edginess and rape rape rape. Even where it makes sense they somehow mishandle it. Each book also comes with a railroady metaplot heavy one shot module.
Reading this shit I actually thought 2e might be from a different creator
>Tone
>We've heard the feedback from the community, so the Shadow War focuses on the awesomeness of being an occult super-hero, while leaving the more controversial subject matter to implication or the desires of individual groups. We feel that this will make V2 accessible to a greater cross-section of players.
They're also actually allowing the game to be Creative Commons, and letting you sell stuff on DrivethruRPG, which is a far cry from the loud harassment of "you can't change anything fuck you this is my game".
It's childish. It bitches that girls are some completely different audience.
He's afraid of girls and their cooties. When the book uses "she" to describe the player, it makes him nervous.
>missing the point this badly
>lacking this much reading comprehension
It's literally making the point that guys and girls are the same audience, it's one, conjoined audience that they're choosing to address by saying "he" because they feel like it.
I've never seen someone so fucking triggered in my life.
As long as you avoid the published adventure modules, they tend to be runaway railroads. There are some issues with the math, which a Google search can turn up. Like all games, it can be excellent or it can be awful. Just decide what level game you want.
Also, I know that there is a 2.0 version out for free beta tedting, but I haven't read it yet.
Probably that hambeast in the "that guy" thread from earlier today.
Which post am I looking for in the archive?
This be the one
>Also, I know that there is a 2.0 version out for free beta tedting, but I haven't read it yet.
I haven't looked at it either. I've been meaning to get around to it, since it focuses on the best part of the setting, i.e. the Eldritch Horror Power Rangers.
>Has anybody here actually played Cthulhutech?
Yes. I joined in one session from an ongoing game as a Spectre Tager, and I was in a group that was going to play grimdark magical girls as our lolis accidentally fell through the roof into a Tager ritual. The math was fucky as hell.
The game repeatedly goes out of it's way to bring up rape in the most childish ways possible, including the fact that the Esoteric Order of Dagon has given up with Innsmouth style interbreeding and just set up rape camps all along the Atlantic.
That is flat out wrong, though.
Nope. I just found Ctech childish.
I actually have hope for 2e. But I can see where the 1e guys were coming from. They made the game they wanted to make in the way they like to play. It just so happens that their preferred playstyle is not conducive to profit generation. Like you said, it has good points and could probably have been handled better, and it shows. But it generated buzz and hype and controversy, which leads us to 2e.
The focus on Tagers is a smart move, it was the most popular line.
>That is flat out wrong, though.
Different user here, but the passage in the OP clearly supports what he said.
I don't think it really generated the right kind of buzz.
projects.inklesspen.com
projects.inklesspen.com
I'm sorry but with the context of the book and the way the creator was acting, I can't not read that as anything but a childish "this game is for boys".
I'm sorry you have poor reading comprehension
You haven't been paying attention to their second edition, have you? Language and content approved by RPG.net's own White Knight-commitee.
It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.
Lol pokerdice thread?
It's not as bad as people make out. It's just time consuming. You need to spend a few minutes working out what your 'hand' is after you roll.
>It's just time consuming
user, that's why it's bad. And every combat action will likely have it happen four times, because they want Attack-Defense-Damage-Soak.
>abloobloo SJWs are ruining games with all their cooties. Why can't games be only for boys?
Oh it's bad, it's just not 'broken' in the strictest sense. It's like THAC0 in ADND.
The biggest problem is that it doesn't *add anything*, they could've used it to handle attack defence damage soak into the same roll but they don't.
Only thing that got a bit weird was the cult expansion that added in some group that worshipped anthro creatures, and would kidnap women for the anthros to have lethal rape children with.
Biggest problem was the dev team having no clue how to mesh standard humans, tagers, mechs, and not-EVAs into the same games. It was pretty much "pick one of these to base your game around," because mixing any of them would result in stupidly imbalanced results.
Rape cults were in core.
Why do you think it's called the Rapine Storm?
Also, the developer didn't want you to mix them. He acted like anyone who had a Tager so much as look at a mech too long should be banned from ever playing his precious game.
Played in a tager game. Was fun until we realized that Tagers barely played well together with the shit they were suppose to deal with, and a single unit of power armor was a TPK enabler and kind of made dhoanoids pointless as a threat.
>Why can't games be only for boys?
I've literally never met a girl in a game group (meaning people actually WANT to play with her) that gives that much of a shit about the pronouns a game book uses.
Also in every metaplot book they made the chrysalis corporation more and more captain planet-tier levels of evil and stupid and it just got to the point where we couldn't suspend disbelief.
>But why are these power generators made out of babies
>lol y not tho
>But why do they keep making medicine and guns that clearly don't work but no one catches on
>lol y not tho
>Why does the apparently competent OIS not realize how big a threat the CC is right under their nose? There is clearly no reason for them to be ignoring the company
>lol y not tho
>What is even the point of Nephilim?
The game started out with a solid premise that was frantically segemented and every major metaplot book sought to make every working part as anti-ethical and just impossible to try and make a cohesive narrative. The game couldn't focus on supernatural espionage, cyberpunk horror, mecha action, or about crazy sci fi psychics because each got the scantest amount of information available, and was cut off from the rest of the setting.
user, you're missing the point. The point is that RPGs shouldn't do this "we only care about men" bullshit anymore. They shouldn't have done it in the first place. It's not about whether girls *can* play, it's about the fact that having a sidebar to say "we're not going to bother with pronouns, these games are for boys". They say that having female pronouns makes it seem like the book is written for two different audiences. Women are not a "different audience". And that's not even touching on the way that most women in art are treated as sexual objects who are there to look attractive first and fill out the setting second.
So many RPGs--and people in this community--seem to think women should just be okay with everyone assuming that everything is only going to be played by guys and that they're not actually part of the community, just outsiders who can be allowed to sit at the table. If you can't understand that, I'm going to be straight with you, it's probably because you don't have to deal with that kind of thing.
It's not about "giving a shit about the pronouns a game book uses". It's about whether the game book gives a shit about you.
I know you are a troll, but Rapine means Yellow.
>It's about whether the game book gives a shit about you.
It's a fucking game book, user. An inanimate object. It's not capable of feeling emotions.
>implying books cannot have feelings
Rapine means looting.
There is a lot of rape thought, just an over reliance on shock value. Same with the infamous baby batteries.
They really should've just focused on the Tangers.
>It's about whether the game book gives a shit about you.
5/10
All a game book should provide is rules, setting and art optional.
Play games with friends, act like reasonable adults. Life is hard enough, don't fight about rpgs. Have fun instead.
They really should have just focused on something. At all. If they gave any shit about the game, they could have given focus on something and made it a coherent game.
You dumbass.
I'm sorry, I forgot I was talking to adult human beings, not poorly programmed incompetent robots who don't understand figurative language.
Rapine comes from the same root word as rape. In fact, the word rape comes from the Rape of the Sabine Women, a tale of rapine marriage that became synonymous with unwanted sexual advances.
And I'm pretty sure they chose the word specifically to refer to rape, because this is CthulhuTech we're talking about.
That's wrong and you know it. People aren't paying $40+ for only the mechanics and nothing else. And yes, life is hard, that's kind of the problem here. It's harder for some than others and Veeky Forums often assumes everyone should feel the exact same way they do about everything. Even when other people have to put up with shit they don't.
Do we not tell people to go back to tumblr anymore?
>Rapine means Yellow.
In what language?
Their over-reliance on rape for shock value got tiresome really fast. Like they were trying to bait feminists into giving their mediocre game free publicity.
>Even when other people have to put up with shit they don't.
It's so hard, reading one fewer letter whenever a pronoun referring to a hypothetical human being that doesn't actually exist comes up.
>Being this myopic
If a game only used female pronouns you would lose your Goddamned mind and never play it.
You're damn right I would, but not for the reason you seem to think. I'd be pissed at the inefficiency of using female pronouns on hypotheticals when male pronouns are, on average, shorter.
>rapine means yellow
u wot m8?
Anyway, I was going to say to that I wasn't talking about the Rapine Storm (or Deep Ones, Cult of Hastur, Dionysus Club, Congregation of the Earth Mother, etc.). The Horned Ones were probably what I was thinking of. Forget the name of the expansion, but a quick look online suggests searching for "the best sex you'll ever have" in the book text to quickly find it.
Their associated premade module involves them rolling up to the PCs, and players having to roll to save against hormonal mind control or be raped (jist kidding, there is no roll, so your players get treated to you reading how they get passed around by a gang of sexually-charged furries).
You're full of shit. You'd lose your damned mind because you'd say that it was an SJW game and probably accuse it of pandering. Meanwhile this sidebar totally isn't pandering to you, no sir.
Also, so what you're saying is that it's literally so hard, to read one more letter whenever a pronoun referring to a hypothetical human being that doesn't actually exist comes up?
I'm not saying anyone should start using any of the bullshit special snowflake ones, but goddamn it gets annoying sometimes how English doesn't have a neutral pronoun that isn't used for something else.
I just want something to apply to traps before I'm sure.
You don't know me. You have no idea where I come from, where I've been, how long I've been there, what I had to do to get from where I was to where I am now.
So what do you think gives you the insight to be able to predict my reaction to something with a single shred of accuracy?
The problem is through the game is split between wanting to do gritty call of Cthulhu investigation games and over the top Anime battles.
The tagers could've had it work.
Nah, no one really cared about that back then. They're crappy writers.
The tagers were the part that drew me in the most. Guyver style characters are always fun.
sadly, they're possibly one of the worst implemented parts of the system. though that's like picking the least used needle in a crack house.
They.
Your English teacher was wrong, and probably not paid enough to care. It's They. The textbook is wrong, and following an arbitrary guideline.
2e seems to have ̶g̶r̶o̶w̶n̶ ̶u̶p̶ ̶cleaned up their act. Though I've only really read the intro. Check it out It focuses only on the Tagers. Book 2 will be about robots.
Looking forward to book 2, then.
This insistence on not using "they" is kind of strange. The Epicene They has been in use in English since, like, the 1300s. I've never understood why people think it's incorrect.
You're acting like a thousand other fuckfaces who've said the same tired dogshit a thousand times.
You missed this part:
>that isn't used for something else
This
People didn't "up and decide" you firebrick haired triggered little shit nugget.
It was a concerted effort by academics to shit over what works because they felt it wasn't good enough for their namsy pansy academia
>you firebrick haired triggered little shit nugget.
>haired triggered
The irony is palpable.
Also, that's basically what I said.
Wait, you used to basically be y'all? That's hilarious.
I don't have this book and I CBA to go track it down just for one sidebar. Would someone mind posting it?
>What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little thief? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with stealing my shit over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "downloading" was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have paid up. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo.
Paraphrased a bit
>If You Downloaded This Book
>So if you’re one of the people who has downloaded this book illegally off the internet, let’s talk. We want to stay in business. We don’t get to stay in business if you don’t buy our products but you use them anyway. In more personal terms, if you like CthulhuTech, please go out and buy the books, because if you don’t we go out of business or we kill the line because sales suck and boom – no more CthulhuTech. You lose, we lose, everybody loses. Everybody loves something for nothing, but this sort of thing comes with a price whether it’s money or not.
Turns out they were wrong.
That's not too unreasonable of a thing to say. It's not so over the top as It's not really going to affect anything beyond one or two people here and there, but I don't blame them for putting that in.
>Date 8 May 16
Oh wow, I don't know they were working on a second eddition. I just considered it abandoned by now.
Great. Here's hoping they get it right this time.
>We've heard the feedback from the community, so the Shadow War focuses on the awesomeness of being an occult super-hero, while leaving the more controversial subject matter to implication or the desires of individual groups. We feel that this will make V2 accessible to a greater cross-section of players.
Umm....
This is like dickwolfgate, say you're going to keep doing it and you look like a try hard edge lord.
Say you'll stop and you just come across as a backpedalling cucks who lost his balls.
That's seriously all they said? If you don't buy our products we'll go out of business?
God the way Veeky Forums talk about them I thought they literally posted something along the lines of >48189047
Guess he hit a nerve.
Just something.
Call the Referee Her/She, call the Player He/Him.
Suddenly, not only do you acknowledge that anyone can play an RPG, but you do it in a non ridiculously tryhard way.
That's what a lot of game books I've seen already do by the way.
Also, don't go and make a paragraph on how you adress it like Cthulhu Tech did in an attempt to basically say "we're very uncomfortable with what we're doing and want you to feel like we're super comfortable with it", thus making a big fuss of something that, frankly, only vain people care about.
>Also, don't go and make a paragraph on how you adress it
Why the fuck not?
Just stating outright "We do THIS because of THAT" in a reasonable way is all anybody can ask of you. It only takes up three sentences at most, cram it in a box at the beginning of the game and be done with it.
As somebody who writes games and routinely reads a shitton of them, using different pronouns for the DM still makes for a shitty read when reading DM sections.
Nothing triggers Veeky Forums more than people sensibly making points that disagree with its worldview.
Hasn't She been used for avatars and concept for ages though? in which case calling the character she makes more sense as they're class avatars of sorts.
Yeah Muant Year Zero does this and helps differentiate.
>Also, don't go and make a paragraph on how you adress it like Cthulhu Tech did in an attempt to basically say "we're very uncomfortable with what we're doing and want you to feel like we're super comfortable with it", thus making a big fuss of something that, frankly, only vain people care about.
This.
In general if you know something is going to a upset a vocal minority, it's just best not to aknowledge it.
Doing so just opens you up to further critics.
When I found out 2nd was keeping the retarded poker dice system my hopes for it being playable died.
Poker dice is absolutely fucking aids.
>You lose, we lose, everybody loses
Actually, I'm fairly sure they're the only ones who lose.
Here it is right out of the book.
The rape stuff wasn't anti-PC like dickwolves, it wasn't trying to send a message like PA. It was simply perverted, like Exalted's rape furries.
Removing some extreme fetishist shit isn't losing your balls, there was no message in there now lost, it's simply trying to be better entertainers.
>2nd was keeping the retarded poker dice system
But it's not. 2E uses a d10 pool where you use the highest of: the highest number on any die, the highest number you can make by summing identical numbers, or the highest you can make by summing at least three consecutive numbers.
nd was keeping the retarded poker dice system
>But it's not. 2E uses a d10 pool where you use the highest of: the highest number on any die, the highest number you can make by summing identical numbers, or the highest you can make by summing at least three consecutive numbers.
Am I being rused?
Scratch that, it's the same system just explained slightly differently (without mention of poker).
So, the same system as Weapons f the Gods/Legends of the Wulin.
Seems reasonable, I really don't see what the problem is.
I'd be fine with it if they was actually was point to it all.
One Roll Engine uses 'height' and 'width' initiative and damage.
Hell actual poker dice make you weight up which dice you want to keep.
Yes... that is what poker dice is.
You match incidentals or consecutives.
And it is a stupid system, and has some of the worst averages and ranges due to how fucking massive it is, three dice could be between 3 and 30 while five could be between 5 and 50, you can not properly scale things with those wide of ranges which was one of the biggest issues with CT when I played it.
That is why most systems use addition of a static with a dice roll, or a pass fail system, they are much easier to keep in specific bounds and ranges.
2E does, however, change it so that difficulty removes dice from your pool instead of changing the target number (static 13).
I don't see the problem with that. Why the fuck do any of you have an issue with that? Jesus.
>In what language?
American. As in Yellaw. Means being a coward.
How many days did you usually roll at one time? It makes a huge difference when looking for an 'average' result
Interesting considering losing dice makes a huge difference with your odds of getting a set.
What's the default number?
TN is 13. Average characteristic rating is 5, so you need an 8 or better to succeed. Some tests give you an extra degree of success for every three over 13 you get.
Easy is 'Don't roll unless you only have one die'.
Each step above Average is -1 die.
>How many days did you usually roll at one time? It makes a huge difference when looking for an 'average' result
Well my group was hyper focused munchkins, so a lot, I forget the exact number, this was around ten years ago I want to say, might have been even longer.
>choosing a pronoun to write the book in is the same as saying girl's shouldn't play
You're reading too much into it, calm down.
>Your English teacher was wrong
I bet you have the degree and experience to back that up, and not an emotional reason for thinking you know better.
doesn't pathfinder use exclusively female pronouns
it was that or another d&d edition
i'm pretty sure nobody except the loudest chief niggers cared to be honest
and speaking of loud chief niggers, the fuck are you doing out of tumblr?
I like 5e using second person.
>you roll X skill
>you gain Y ability
>Say you'll stop and you just come across as a backpedalling cucks who lost his balls.
Seriously? Maybe to childish people. Hell, they're kind of writing it as "we grew up" but my impression of the devs from 1e makes me feel its' more of a "fine, fuck you people". Or, maybe they really did grow up. I hope they did.
I don't know about other anons, but my issue with it was always that it presented a binary view of piracy. Meanwhile, statistically people who pirate are more likely to legitimately purchase media.
First off, it's not really that reasonable. Second off, no one would have cared if they hadn't gone out of their way to say it in the first place.
Pathfinder's way of doing it is best. They give each class an Iconic, and by extension a gender. It also allows them to use proper names instead of just pronouns.
That's not what I said. What I said is that failing to accommodate or even acknowledge a demographic means that you don't care about (or at best only incidentally care about) that demographic. In this case, that demographic is fully half the population.
en.wikipedia.org
The reason Singular They was pushed out of popular use was due to emotional reasons. The reason you spell words the way that you do has more to do with emotion than grammar. For instance, whether you use colour or color is generally up to "emotional reasons". Here's an informative video on the subject, in fact youtu.be
And another on Singular They specifically youtu.be
Personally I think second person is awkward. But unfortunately I tend to default to it, and I feel like it gets in the way of my clarity.
>whether you use colour or color is generally up to "emotional reasons."
No. It's about whether you choose to write proper english or not.
And who do you think decided what was proper?
How do you think "proper" is determined?
Do you think there are measurements and instruments?
Do you have any understanding of how language works? America dropped the u from colour just because. It's not even anything like how Beef has French etymology and Cow has German etymology.
Hell, you know how high school English says not to use prepositions? Here's the Oxford Dictionary blog pointing out why that's not true, even going so far as to use the phrase "Latin obsessed 17-Century introverts"
blog.oxforddictionaries.com
Most things on "grammatical correctness" have nothing to do with grammar at all; they're style guides. And if you remember those essays, you'll know there are many competing style guides.
First random Google-hit:
"Though color occasionally appears outside the U.S., it is still considered a misspelling."
grammarist.com