Warhammer 40k General

You pay for the benefit of the formation. AoS is doing it with theirs and it works out very well.

>hurr durr gladius

Obviously broken shit is obvious and would get the nerf hammer brought down on it as well.

Unbound makes all spam possible.
Actually Unbound isn't that bad if it's not being used for cheese. I've had problems with my unbound games where it's actually hinged on me not having objective secured and my opponent having objective secured. Losing the command benefits is a pretty good trade off for fielding whatever you want.

Spam will only get pushed harder by GW. Convincing customers to buy multiples of the same kit is something GW will never, ever do away with. Certainly not in favor of quality gameplay.

Here's the list.

+++ The Tallyband Can (1846pts) +++

++ Chaos Daemons: Codex (2013) (Chaos CD Daemonic Incursion) (985pts) ++

+ Core (650pts) +

Tallyband (650pts)
··Herald of Nurgle [Greater Locus of Fecundity, Psyker Level 2]
··Nurglings [3x Nurglings]
··Nurglings [3x Nurglings]
··Nurglings [3x Nurglings]
··Plaguebearers of Nurgle [Instrument of Chaos, 10x Plaguebearers, Upgrade one Plaguebearer to Plagueridden]
··10x Plaguebearers of Nurgle [Instrument of Chaos
··10x Plaguebearers of Nurgle [Instrument of Chaos
··10x Plaguebearers of Nurgle

+ Command (300pts) +
Daemon Lord (300pts) [Kairos Fateweaver]

+ Auxiliary (35pts) +
Daemon Flock (35pts)
··Chaos Furies [5x Furies]

++ Chaos Daemons: Codex (2013) (Combined Arms Detachment) (861pts) ++

+ HQ (230pts) +
Daemonic Heralds (230pts)
··Herald of Nurgle [D6 Exalted Daemonic Reward, Psyker Level 1] (The exalted is the Grimoire of True Names)
··Herald of Tzeentch [Psyker Level 3, The Oracular Dais]

+ Elites (208pts) +
4x Beast of Nurgle (208pts)

+ Troops (198pts) +
11x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (99pts)
11x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (99pts)

+ Fast Attack (225pts) +
5xPlague Drones of Nurgle, Icon of Chaos,

The list generates 14 warp charges, and I'll generally roll on Malefic/Biomancy. For 1850 games.

Yeah but they could push it toward shitty kits that don't sell or ones that suck rules-wise and hem in shit like Riptides.

Made another list without Seraphins, one less Exorcist and a Psyker Inquistor with a squad of crusaders, psyker and death cult in a Landraider crusader. Basically because my Rhino chassis count ends at 7. (Picture not related, but I'd be glad to have more)

+++ Traditional Sisters of Battle (1345pts) +

++ Adepta Sororitas: Codex (2013) (Combined Arms Detachment) (1345pts) ++

+ HQ (135pts) +

Saint Celestine (135pts)

+ Troops (290pts) +

Battle Sister Squad (145pts) [2x Battle Sister, Battle Sister with Flamer, Battle Sister with Flamer]
··Immolator [Dozer Blade, Twin-Linked Multi-Melta]
··Sister Superior [Bolt Pistol, Combi-Flamer]

Battle Sister Squad (145pts) [2x Battle Sister, Battle Sister with Flamer, Battle Sister with Flamer]
··Immolator [Dozer Blade, Twin-Linked Multi-Melta]
··Sister Superior [Bolt Pistol, Combi-Flamer]

+ Fast Attack (530pts) +

Dominion Squad (180pts) [4x Dominion with Meltagun]
··Dominion Superior [Bolt Pistol, Combi-Melta]
··Immolator [Dozer Blade, Twin-Linked Multi-Melta]

Dominion Squad (180pts) [4x Dominion with Meltagun]
··Dominion Superior [Bolt Pistol, Combi-Melta]
··Immolator [Dozer Blade, Twin-Linked Multi-Melta]

Seraphim Squad (170pts) [8x Seraphim, Seraphim with Two Hand Flamers, Seraphim with Two Hand Flamers]

+ Heavy Support (390pts) +

Exorcist (130pts) [Storm Bolter]

Exorcist (130pts) [Storm Bolter]

Exorcist (130pts) [Storm Bolter]

It's like how formations in apocalypse 40k USED to work.
You paid for the formation and the models. Then you got the special rules. AoS didn't start that idea.

8/10 would fuck

...

What exactly are you deep striking and why?

Formations are just about the strongest anti-spam gw has ever done, and they are pusing them hard right now.

Its something they should go back to. Along with reviewing or straight up tossing out a lot of existent formations from matched/tournament play.

Eh, they're kinda hit or miss on that front. All the Daemon formations are "take a large number of the same unit" and quite a lot of the other detachments include multiple auxiliary choices that just spam the same thing.

I liked when formations where in apocalypse only and people play for fun.

WAAC is fine in a video game, where you can just quit the match and start another one in seconds. But in wargames is just being a dick.
Like both of you had to assemble, paint, transport and agree to meet at a certain point and a certain hour for a single match.

It boggles my mind that some people translate winning to winning at all cost. Unless you are playing in a tournament (even then kind of silly, but to each his own) there is no reason to cheese build.

Most of the plaguebearers in the tallyband. They seem slow, and plague drones are fast.

So I've set it up like this: Oracular Dais guarantees one successful reserve roll per turn. Instrument of Chaos on the drones guarantees this without scatter, and Icon of Chaos on the Drones lets me turn this one roll into two deep strikes.

I infiltrate the nurglings at the start, move the plague drones in to position, and then deepstrike what is hopefully most of my army much closer than they could be at that point if they had started the game.

It seemed like a fun strategy, but this will be my first ever 40k army, so what the heck do i know?

Yeah, everyone knows that prior to formations, everyone only fielded highly varied lists the cleaved the fluff whenever possible.

Why are the anti-formation people so delusional?

What army do you play, and what is the most important thing you've discovered about how it handles tactically?

'muh WAAC waaaah'

Its human nature to desire to win, to defeat or dominate the opposition, to exert your control, to improve on what you posses and know that it is 'the best'.

Fighting non formation, wraith spam Necrons.
The other list:

+++ Sisters & Inquistion (1498pts) +++

++ Inquisition: Codex (2013) (Inq Inquisitorial Detachment) (453pts) ++

+ HQ (63pts) +

Ordo Xenos Inquisitor (63pts) [Bolt Pistol, Force Sword, Power Armour, Psyker (Mastery Level 1)]

+ Elites (390pts) +

Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband (390pts) [3x Crusader, 5x Death Cult Assassin, Psyker]
··Land Raider Crusader [Dozer Blade, Psybolt Ammunition]

++ Adepta Sororitas: Codex (2013) (Combined Arms Detachment) (1045pts) ++

+ HQ (135pts) +

Saint Celestine (135pts)

+ Troops (290pts) +

Battle Sister Squad (145pts) [2x Battle Sister, Battle Sister with Flamer, Battle Sister with Flamer]
··Immolator [Dozer Blade, Twin-Linked Multi-Melta]
··Sister Superior [Bolt Pistol, Combi-Flamer]

Battle Sister Squad (145pts) [2x Battle Sister, Battle Sister with Flamer, Battle Sister with Flamer]
··Immolator [Dozer Blade, Twin-Linked Multi-Melta]
··Sister Superior [Bolt Pistol, Combi-Flamer]

+ Fast Attack (360pts) +

Dominion Squad (180pts) [4x Dominion with Meltagun]
··Dominion Superior [Bolt Pistol, Combi-Melta]
··Immolator [Dozer Blade, Twin-Linked Multi-Melta]

Dominion Squad (180pts) [4x Dominion with Meltagun]
··Dominion Superior [Bolt Pistol, Combi-Melta]
··Immolator [Dozer Blade, Twin-Linked Multi-Melta]

+ Heavy Support (260pts) +

Exorcist (130pts) [Storm Bolter]

Exorcist (130pts) [Storm Bolter]

>this one roll
Reread the wording on the Oracular Dais.

Even with your erroneous reading of the Dais/Musician interaction, that's a lot of moving parts in order to deep strike some Plague Bearers that you could just summon for free. The list is rather light on units that will actually do work. I'd drop two of the Plaguebearer units down to Nurglings, scrap the excess Herald, and add a GUO. Trade the Dais for Paradox. Or give the one Herald some more kit and have him use the Plague Drones to slingshot himself into CC.

Unbound is fine if you're trying to use it to make a perfectly fluffy army. Like say I want to have a Deredeo being followed around by a Techmarine and his own personal honour guard. Deredeo's the warlord. He's then followed around by a command squad of 3 contemptors, with a vanguard of 3 more dreadnoughts. Troops were 4 tactical squads, and 3 scout squads with a land speeder. Obviously this isn't bound, because that's 7 elite slots, all following around one heavy support guy whose the warlord.

But on another side of the coin, there's a Tau player I went up against last week who went with like 12 Hazard Suits, 2 Rvarnas, and 1 normal riptide. The rest of his army was something like 1500 points worth of crisis suits. He asked me what a casual tau list looked like, and balked at my response of "6 Fire Warrior Squads all in Devilfish with Sensor Spines and whatever that upgrade is that grants +1 cover saves, supported by the remainder of your points in mixed battlesuits with a maximum of one riptide".

That's not entirely accurate.

Riptide Wing consists of 1 model.
Daemon formations all consist of a single, or two models.
Librarius Conclave.

There are so many more. Formations encourage spam.

Yeah, no one ever fielded 2 lash princes and nothing but plaguemarines, who the hell spread this silly noise haha.

While I admit some formations, especially the "much free shit" ones are fucking cheese, I do feel some are quite fluffy (the "prophecy" one in crimson slaughter as an example) and should be encouraged... But anyways that shite's pointless, WAACfags will be WAACfags.

They just don't like change. Saying "I don't like change" isn't a very credible argument, so they have to make something up. Since they are just making an excuse and not actually referring to reality when making their arguments, sometimes things come out sounding confused.

Until you get the formations that are:
3× the same unit (Riptide Wing for example) where you take a good unit and you get even MORE bonuses for taking them.

Those formations are the worst...

>As a GK, I'm worried that GW will rehash their shitty GK apocalypse formation of 3-5 Dreadknights when they get around to giving GKs formations, effectively encouraging the spam.

Mostly salty to free upgrades just for putting some random unites.

To be fair winning is not the problem, waac is the problem, because practically I can't bring my entire collections to LGS just to tailor every my army to fight against the broken cheese of the week.

Might be a USA thing, but I remember back in third people played a lot of fluffy armies, and avoided cheesing.

Chaos Marines here !
i learned that you have much more fun playing accordingly to your playstyle than trying to go by the standard WAACshit
(tried Cabal, tried deathstars, etc, but finally, my best games are with a fluffy list)
Also learned that the most you play an unit, the better it becomes for you !

Iron Hands chapter tactics will let you stick dreadnoughts in Elites and Heavy support. You could manipulate that to make you Bound.

>12 hazard suits, 3 riptides, fuckload of suits
I would play the fuck out of that list, that sounds like fun. How big of a points game was that?

>What army do you play,

Tyranids, Blood Angels

>What is the most important thing you've discovered about how it handles tactically?

TYRANIDS
They can dominate psychic phases easily, not just with Tyrants and Zoanthropes bu with MSU Genestealers, and you have a good chance of having Catalyst on two Tyrants. They're surprisingly durable because of this. Also the MSU nature of units like said Genestealers, while not a tournament winning tactic, gives players fits unless they're say, Tau.

I would also say spore mine and etc. tournament lists like #Lictorshame are incredibly difficult and unforgiving to play if your placement and movement isn't perfect, and far from easy to master. And even then I don't think they're that good outside of ITC dominated metas.

Also people lose their shit at 3 strong units of barebone Carnifexes and its funny.

BLOOD ANGELS
Turn one deep strike assaulting is overrated. Baal Strike Force is your friend if its a pure Blood Angels army. Lightning claw terminators put out a lot of work, in fact they tend to over-kill in my experience. Death Company is overrated, I always find myself wanting my mini-deathstar of Sanguinary Guard because shit just doesn't seem to die properly when Death Company assault anything but MEQ troops or Guard Blob equivalents.

Also Fast Rhinos OP take shitloads of these and enjoy cock blocking people's deathstars with your moving terrain pieces while you win on objectives. Drop pods are actually not that great for Blood Angels unless its a Furioso or meltagun assault squad. Even then I prefer the Furioso.

Anti-formation people arent delusional. Formations have hurt balance and fun far more than theyve accomplished anything positive.

You couldnt achieve anything remotely as broken with CAD. Formation bonuses are cancer.

They were implemented because GW realized they could guaranteed sales of whatever kits they chose to, simply by offering a competitive advantage. WAAC fags jumped in headfirst, and anyone that wants to play in a public/pick-up setting was forced to follow suit.

Now we have retards like yourself that have fully succumbed to a very simple marketing ploy - defending the merits of a sales tactic that undermines the quality of the game.

I reread both wordings. I think I'm right.

Oracular Dais:
The Oracular Dais is a Disc of Tzeentch. At the start of each of your turns, you can choose one friendly unit with the Chaos Daemons Faction that is in Reserve to automatically pass its Reserve Roll (there is no need to roll).

When a unit with an Instrument of Chaos in Deep Strike reserve successfully passes its Reserve Roll, you can also choose another unit. This must be a unit that:
> is entirely composed of models with the Daemon special rule
> is still in Deep Strike reserve
> has yet to make a reserve roll this turn
If you do so, the chosen unit automatically arrives from reserve (no roll is made).

So if you use Oracular Dais to guarantee a pass for a unit with an instrument of chaos, you get to deep strike another unit as well without having to roll for it.

I would really like to fit a Great Unclean one in there though.

Summoning is an option, it just doesn't seem mobile enough.

Fist of Medusa Strike Force can take Dreadnoughts as an auxiliary choice. That list can quite easily be made battleforged by swapping one of the Tactical Squads for a Devastator Squads and adding a Chaplain.

Far far less so than the old Foc system. You think any powergamer anywhere would have run a list of 'one of everything in the codex' without the war convo?

Power players are just a fact of life, an I'm perfectly fine with them getting steared towards mixed, vaugely realistic looking lists. Getting a boot up my ass from a functional army instead of 6 [Power choices] and 4 minimum size squads of the cheapest infantry avalible is a huge step forward.

It was 3000 or so points. I went unbound because I mostly wanted to get around the whole honour guard force org stuff. I wanted Valentine to have his own personal 5-man honour guard, and not have to take a captain/chapter master in order to justify them. In my eyes, Valentine's already a captain, so he totally deserves his own honour guard.

Anyway, I play Raptors. Not exactly the best of tactics for dreadnoughts, but it's really good for scout squads. Having Rending on bolters means sniper rifles aren't necessary at all, so I can just have bolter scouts with cloaks infiltrate to harass suits. It didn't stop me from getting tabled, but the threat of stripping wounds off his fancy riptides made him weary of where he put them.

It was also the first game where I ever brought the Imperial Space Marine. He came insanely close to gibbing commander farsight through good positioning.

>formations are a huge step forward in balance from CAD's

wew motherfucking lad

>You couldnt achieve anything remotely as broken with CAD.

The word balance does not appear in that post.

>hey were implemented because GW realized they could guaranteed sales of whatever kits they chose to, simply by offering a competitive advantage. WAAC fags jumped in headfirst, and anyone that wants to play in a public/pick-up setting was forced to follow suit.
See, this is delusional. GW already writes the rules. If they want to drive sales of a unit by manipulating the rules, they don't have to make formations. They can just make the unit more powerful.

>You couldnt achieve anything remotely as broken with CAD
I'm pretty sure Eldar tournament lists usually run CAD's with MSU Scatbikes, Far Seers, and Wraithknights.

Balance was already fucked. Formations just provide bonuses for fluffy configurations. We actually see people fielding Assault Devastator Squads in tournament lists. Yes, formations need improved on, but the idea is sound.

Where do I find the rules for that formation ? are they in the Angel of Death supplement ?

>give the one Herald some more kit and have him use the Plague Drones to slingshot himself into CC.

How do you get a slow and purposeful infantry model to keep up with jet pack Cavalry?

>Since they are just making an excuse and not actually referring to reality when making their arguments, sometimes things come out sounding confused.
Hell, we can see it in action right here in this thread:

Correct.
Congo line of death. He won't get to fight in the first round, but he should pile in for the second. You can also deep strike the whole assembly.

>See, this is delusional. GW already writes the rules. If they want to drive sales of a unit by manipulating the rules, they don't have to make formations. They can just make the unit more powerful.

So, instead of just cramming units X, Y, and Z into a formation that would guarantee the sales of said units - the wiser move would be to buff all of the units in all of the formations that contain units they want to sell. Which requires updating statlines, and therefore codexes. Instead of just offering a formation bonus.

I get it, you like formations and will defend them no matter what. But you need to stop reassuring yourself of how right you are, and examine the situation objectively. But honestly, I think you are just so shockingly stupid, that you arent capable of doing that. Im disappointed in myself for replying to you.

>so you pay points to get the free rhinos?
That you don't get free rhinos, you entitled little shit.

>I'm pretty sure Eldar tournament lists usually run CAD's with MSU Scatbikes, Far Seers, and Wraithknights.

Confirmed for not playing before 7th edition, and just straight up talking out of your ass.

The majority of formations released have come out alongside reprints of codexes or supplements. If formations were intended to drive sales, why haven't their been kick-ass formations buffing unpopular units or armies? Why have so many of the good formations buffed units that players of the faction would already own?

This is pretty common as an allied detachment;

Eldar CAD

Warlock

Windriders: 3x Scatter Lasers

Windriders: 3x Scatter Lasers

Windriders: 3x Scatter Lasers

Windriders: 3x Scatter Lasers

Windriders: 1x Scatter Laser

Wraithknight

I'm 100% certain the Eldar tournament lists prior to 7th edition used the Force Organization chart. I'm pretty sure that even now the only real variable is how many Warp Spiders they include. ObSec on Eldar Jetbikes is pretty fucking good.

I think his snarky reply was due to the absurdity of the claim 'formations have improved balance over the CAD'.

If you believe that, perhaps it's you who is confused?

RHINOS?

RHIIIIINOS

OUR ENEMIES HIDE IN METAL BOXES, THE COWARDS, THE FOOLS

GW SHOULD TAKE AWAY THEIR METAL BOXES

are they not talking about the balance of Formations vs CADs, which is only a thing post 7th? why does anything before 7th edition matter in that discussion?

also, eldar totally take CADs over their formations/decurion.
unless your trying to spam 5 wraithknights at 1850pts

That claim was literally never made in the reply chain. It is definitely you who is confused.

Because pushing every army at once is counterproductive. You hold some down, while buffing others up. The idea is to nudge everyone toward purchasing a 'good' army. If everyones army was strong at once, there would be far less people buying into a new army. The impetus for change isnt there if we're all equal.

Truly, the venerable Force Organization Chart will redeem us from the evils of spam unleashed by the decurions.

Is that why Orks have been shit for a decade and Eldar, Tau, and Space Marines have all been strong armies for years?

You couldnt take specials on every bike before 7th. And iirc they werent troops. Back then you took as many Wave Serpents, and deducated transport Wave Serpents as possible. Seer councils, and a bright lance.

They were troops then. And he's talking about how things are now, in 7th, with Formations and shit, I'm pretty sure.

So, what you're saying, is that even prior to formations, people still just spammed the best units?
I don't want D to be common, but I understand that it's a necessary evil when the game is actively proliferating SH/GMC level shit. Super Heavies at 2400 aren't the problem. It's Wraithknights and Stormsurges at 1500 that can eat the concentrated fire of an entire army and come out fine.

Believe whatever you like user.

AdMech player here. A friend has asked to see the most cheesy thing I can bring, so I'm putting the War Convocation online. Is it better to make the Warlord the leader of my Vanguard squad as usual (For more rerolls to hit all the time on a squad vomiting out dice) or the Dominus (Thematic, gets a reroll, more durable), assuming I'm going against a mixed Chaos list? Also, to emphasize again, I wasn't going to do this, but he literally asked for it.

Eldar have always been a strong army (except for a brief period in 5th), but orks and marines have been average or bad for most of their existance, each with brief periods of being top tier.

There is no rhyme or reason towards 40k balance beyond designers playing favorites. If GW was really trying to push people to buy new armies, Eldar wouldn't be strong every time they got a new codex. Space Marines wouldn't be the strongest, because they're super popular regardless. We wouldn't see Codexes moving from strong book to strong book repeatedly. We'd see paradigm shifts where they swap top and bottom codexes.

A reminder.

>asked to bring most cheesy war convo against chaos
for what purpose

>reminder that this guy definitely did not use proper sampling techniques and that the validity of his data is garbage
But, hey, he made some controversial claims and a spiffy image, so he must be legit.

At the end of the day, formations have introduced the most unbalanced version of the game ever. You cant take 6 or 9 Riptides in a CAD. You cant ignore Gets Hot! in a CAD. You cant assault out of deepstrike in a CAD. You dont get hundreds of points of free units in a CAD. You cant take a deathstar of Librarians in a CAD. You cant shoot vehicles' rear armor from anywhere on the table with a CAD. You cant buff the BS of every unit in your formation in a CAD. You cant respawn dead units for free in a CAD....

You do realise that Chaos is a top tier army right now?

He had heard about it and thinks it can't be that bad. Yeah, I don't get it either. The man loves trying to eke out every bit of power he can from his favourite armies, so he might just view it as a challenge to be overcome? And if he can take down the mountain of bullshit that is a War Convo, even with my admittedly bad self playing it, it'd be a hell of a feather in his cap.

>Imperial Space Marine
that guy is a champ. Last game I had he killed a Sorcerer and a Deamon Prince.

Chaos Daemons are. He plays a mix of renegades, CSM, and Bloodbound. He's bought some pure Daemons, but he doesn't like to play things until they're painted - I suspect that will change, in the upcoming game.

Tau went from eternally garbage to top of the food chain with the introduction of the Riptide, and my how the suits have flowed since then.

If you think formations and bonuses werent added for the sole purpose of driving sales, you are exceptionally stupid.

>chaos is top tier army
your joking right?

unless "mixed chaos" means "lest possible amount of chaos marines + other chaos" then yeah sure maybe

Sample size alone should have tipped you off, but then someone will always complain about the derrived statistics regardless of how thorough it was, in my experience.

I posted it mostly as a joke. I play Tyranids and Chaos Space Marines.

Do not take the bait, CSM anons.

At the end of the day, you and your ilk have made indefensible claim after indefensible claim, always ready to shift the goalposts to a new fallback position.

40k has always had atrocious balance. It's silly to point at formations and say they're too blame, when so many formations are garbage or mediocre.

>You cant take 6 or 9 Riptides in a CAD
Yes, yes you can.
>You cant ignore Gets Hot! in a CAD.
That's not even remotely close to the biggest advantage of the WarConvo, and it's not really a big deal anyways.
>You cant assault out of deepstrike in a CAD
You've been able to in the past, and it wasn't even good. It's the guaranteed Turn 1/2 Relentless Grav/Melta that makes the Skyhammer so good.
>You dont get hundreds of points of free units in a CAD.
Says the man that has never played a CAD of Pink Horrors and Tzeentch Heralds.
>You cant take a deathstar of Librarians in a CAD.
Sure, but you can still make a sick-ass superfriends deathstar with good psychic support.

Which is a pretty big problem, he's easily worth 50 points in the hands of a good player, and he's free. I never take him in casual games, but the guy I used him against identified by name as a 'taudar' player, so I instantly thought he was a waacfag.

Simply because the ISM is free, he can kill literally anything with his S5AP2-ID gun and it'll be awesome. If he kills a 55 point crisis suit, he's earned back his points. A tactical marine with a plasma gun? He's earned back his points. A riptide with all of the bells and whistles? He's earned back his points.

r8 my necrons

+++ Necrons (1850pts) +++

++ Necrons: Codex (2015) (Combined Arms Detachment) (1850pts) ++

+ HQ (280pts) +

Cryptek (140pts) [Chronometron (25pts), Mindshackle Scarabs (10pts), Phase Shifter (25pts), Phylactery (15pts), Staff of Light]

Cryptek (140pts) [Chronometron (25pts), Mindshackle Scarabs (10pts), Phase Shifter (25pts), Phylactery (15pts), Staff of Light]

+ Troops (520pts) +

Warriors (260pts) [20x Necron Warrior (260pts)]

Warriors (260pts) [20x Necron Warrior (260pts)]

+ Fast Attack (420pts) +

Canoptek Tomb Sentinel [FW] (210pts) [Sepulchral Scarabs (15pts)]

Canoptek Tomb Sentinel [FW] (210pts) [Sepulchral Scarabs (15pts)]

+ Heavy Support (630pts) +

Sentry Pylon [FW] (210pts)
··Sentry Pylon (210pts) [Focussed Death Ray (25pts), Sepulchral Scarabs (15pts), Teleportation Matrix (35pts)]

Sentry Pylon [FW] (210pts)
··Sentry Pylon (210pts) [Focussed Death Ray (25pts), Sepulchral Scarabs (15pts), Teleportation Matrix (35pts)]

Sentry Pylon [FW] (210pts)
··Sentry Pylon (210pts) [Focussed Death Ray (25pts), Sepulchral Scarabs (15pts), Teleportation Matrix (35pts)]

the cohort mechanicus is probably cheesier, strictly speaking.

Anyway, your vanguard warlord still gets a re-roll on his trait if you roll on the chart in the skitarii codex, which you probably should.

Only a few specific builds of Daemons are. When you add even a token CSM detachment, you are no longer competitive.

>Sure, but you can still make a sick-ass superfriends deathstar with good psychic support.

LoW, two HQ, then (multiple) allied detachment I'm guessing?

>formations are good for the game hurrdurrr Im a full blown retard competitive internet arguer hurrrdurrr Im too stupid to consider any opinion but my own REEEEEEEEE

I take him always, but I make sure to point out where he is and that I have him, and I ask the opponent if he's a major problem (he never is).
He can kill anything sure but if he's firing at one wound models he's just a tactical marine with a different plasma gun.
>tfw disintegration guns become wargear next codex

Well, I'm convinced.

Can't you still do a Wolfstar with CAD Space Wolves? Two CADs of Space Wolves, Wolf Guard, 2x Rune Priest, bunch of Techmarines, dogs dogs and dogs. Rhino grey hunters and Wulfen.

>Tau went from eternally garbage
See, delusional. Fish of Fury was a thing.
>If you think formations and bonuses werent added for the sole purpose of driving sales
Everything is added to drive sales. GW is a corporation. Formations are not purely a sales gimmick. They, generally, force a wider array of units to be used, and are generally mediocre. Wasn't the Necron Decurion the first? Necrons were a pretty good army prior to that codex. Christ, late fifth-early sixth was horrible with all those Croissants.

>the cohort mechanicus is probably cheesier, strictly speaking.
Yeah, but it's a hell of a lot harder to fit into 2000 points.

What's the best way to outfit my devastators in a skyhammer annihilation force ?

This is elementally untrue. Tetrad/Skyhost/WFH/Murderhost/Circus/Screamerstar/Tallyband and a bevy of other builds are all very viable.

>they had this one strategy for part of one edition so they weren't a bad book for most of their existance until 6th edition

I don't see GW doing this soon. Didn't they just release tank hunter bundles last month that included things like 5 Soulgrinders?