Have you ever encountered a mary sue?

Every time I look back at my early writing, I see them.

It's like seeing dead bodies, but even more gruesome.

>Star Whore fans are this easily triggered

...

You know, I've always had the opinion that you HAVE to have some form of autism to play RPGs, because normal people have social lives and don't pretend to be magic elves.
Well, if regular DnD player has some sort of mild aspergers, it's ten thousand times worse on freeforms. The most convenient example was a girl by the name of Sarah - she was a cosplayer somewhere in her twenties, with huge boobs, red hair and all. Her character was somewhere in her twenties, with gigantic boobs and knee-long red hair.
She had nuclear yellow eyes - except when she was blind (anime blind, not real blind), she had control over fire and could will it to appear anywhere at will, she could transform into animals and dragons, she had telepathy that somehow powered through the abilities designed specifically as telepathy immunities, she could SUMMON dragons, she could teleport from anywhere to anywhere at will, she had metal war fangs, two hunded kilograms both, so she also must have had a super strength... Why I say "must have"? Because none of her abilities were strictly defined. As an admin, she could do whatever she wanted, and it was one of the reasons a schism occured by the end.
However, let's not stop at her powers. What was her character like? Well, she usually had two personalties. Sarah and the evil one - sometimes it was called Elsheva, sometimes it was called the Dark SIster, she had multiple evil personalities, and as an old one died, a new one emerged. Her modus operandi was to horribly mutilate someone as her Evil personality, then switch to the good one, cry and heal them. Yes, she was a supreme healer too. She also liked to get into fights for no reason as both of her personalities, and even the supposedly "good" one was a supreme cunt.

Oh, so we're doing this thread again? Fine. We built a Sue that ruined 40k in the most awesomely retarded of ways, and we've made a universe where Sues are the foundation of the most grimdark setting ever. Shall we plunge down this rabbit hole further? Let's make a Sue Plainswalker that fucks up the MTG continuum this time.

She wasn't the only one - just the best example. That freeform (and others) was filled with twenty somethings acting like complete children. Like, there was this one guy, who had two different abilities that both instantly and unavoidably killed you - one was lightning that instantly "incinerated your nervous system", while the other was a gust of wind that rapidly aged you until you turned to dust. There was another guy, who got around having limits on his abilities (and their number) by having, like, five hundred puppets or something, each as powerful as a player, each with a unique skillset. There was also a guy with a body filled with nanobots that made him super strong, regenerated any wound instantly and did other shit, oh my god.
The good part, however, is that all overpowered shits and exalted sperglords mainly held the admin or moderator position, and they USUALLY kept to themselves and fought against other horribly OP shits, leaving the (relatively, really relatively) good players alone. Usually being the keyword.
Cause my character's definitive power wasn't self-resurrection for no reason, at certain point I've decided that I've had enough of being killed and brought back to life by other people, time to do at least one half of it myself.
And then I decided to try DnD.

I want to plunge down that hole

Did DnD serve you any better?

If you are saying Rey is a Mary Sue, then perhaps you should actually learn what that term means.

Yes. I'm still surrounded by spergs, but at least it's the same level of autism as me.

I made one, once, when I rolled a human character whose lowest stat was a 14 after adjustments.
He was, of course, kicked around enough by the setting so that it eventually didn't matter.
Now, he's basically Strahd: the sort of character that sounds badass until you realize that he's just a dude with personal issues souped up with just enough power that his dark superiors find him useful.

Ok, what Race(s) is our Planeswalker? We're going to need at least three, one of them being human, also suggest features, glowing eye color and hair a must.

What could Rey do that Luke couldn't?

Flawlessly use the Force, defeat her archnemesis in single combat in the first movie.

Obtain the resources she needed to learn to fly a ship?
At least Luke had adoptive parents.

use a blaster

Suer thig, breddy gud, naies reiply.

Lets just call her "unexpected gifted at everything important she attempts, with failures that are comical instead of crippling", eh?

Get laid.

One should be a Golden Golem that's just better than Karn and is immune to Phyrexian oil.

Keep both hands.

Learn how to be proficient in the force in like 48 hours maybe less.

You're like, 9 months late to the party dumbfuck.

Is Rey a Mary Sue? No.

Is Rey an Interesting Character who is worthy of continuing the Star Wars legacy? Also No.

...Okay, you got me.
We don't know for sure yet, though.

Every game of dark heresy where one person picks grey knight. I don't mind playing supporting character though.

Look, you can't just default to Mary Sue when you want to describe a character who is too competent or lacks any dramatic tension. She's just a bad character, not a Sue.

Half-Golem, Half Human? Sounds stupid already, I love it. Honestly, we need a couple more though, a Mary Sue needs at least three halves in order to qualify for Full-Retarded Sueness.

Add in half Lorwynn Elf for the extra beauty and grace.

The problem with Rey was that Abrams was way too impatient with her development.

See, you look at Luke's development. In the first movie, he's only really good at flying around and shooting things. He had to go through a phase of being a shitty jedi before he was any good, and he had to go through not only Obi Wan's brief training, but also two movies worth of Yoda training. He had to get his ass kicked by Darth Vader and realize what the desire for power through the force could do to his character.

This makes it so that when he finally kicks Darth Vader's ass at the end of Return of the Jedi, it actually means something. Even then, the Emperor just fucks Luke in the ass with lightning anyways; he comes so far but still is far from invincible.

Rey never gets her ass kicked, to sum things up. She starts off with an appropriate amount of skill; some people would say that jetbiking is an entirely different animal from flying a ship, but it's easy to overlook. She flies things. Whatever, we don't know everything she flew, maybe she flew some not-T16 Skyhopper on the planet of Not-Tatooine.

What she sure as mother fuck did not do was train under a jedi master in the use of the force for all that time. Luke in the second movie is struggling to lift fucking rocks, let alone flawlessly mind trick people.

The most telling part is that she actually beats a Sith, after having known about the force, not even being taught in its use just knowing it exists, for, what, a couple of days?

Now I know why she could do it. Emo man got shot with a bowcaster, nicked with lightsabers, and was generally in shit condition, but Rey should not have been even a semblance of a threat, let alone actually beating him. Kylo Ren is basically reduced to being a retarded bitch at the end, and really the question becomes how the fuck he was let out of his room. The question is if Ren is actually a threat AT ALL, or if Rey is space Jesus who cannot lose.

Remind me what her flaws are?

If these flaws don't serve to hinder but end up helping her, never get reacted to believably (ie. a bitchy character who never gets called on it or disliked for it.), or cause her a moment of hesitation it's not a flaw and will be ignored.

...

Why can no one agree on the type of bait?

>cat girl
>interesting
>well-thought out

>Hair: Green
Stopping RIGHT there.

>Normal human
>Literally nothing neat about xim/xir
How can you even have a good character if their is nothing special about them

The one on the left isn't a sue, but she's pathetically boring, and that's just as bad. That picture always annoys me.

She's a boring sue. An antisue. Made to be uninteresting for fear of creating a sue. It's an awful part of the cycle, but people have to go through it when they're learning.

Ah, I knew there was a term for it, thank you.

...

By playing them like an actual person and not some kind of caricature?

Where is the fun in being normal?

In being a perfectly normal serial killer

Or your average, everyday slayer of the paranormal

Yeah was a DMPC named "Seer" with red hair and completely black eyes. He was super min maxed and had cheesy spells that allowed him to nullify fights or do the big damage. He was slated to be the star of the show, although I will say he took a backseat a lot early on. However he got the killing blow on a white dragon and "randomly rolled" for his weapon to become legendary. After that there was almost no point in playing since we kept doing more and more combat that he would plow through.

This was my first DM and if I never experienced him I might not believe any "that guy/dm" threads.

My first ttrpg character was ridiculously mary sue and fucking edgy.

At the time I was suffering from a pretty bad case of being 17, and high functioning autism.

The first game I ran also was a bit stronk NPC heavy even if I let the players make plenty of headway.

Ugh.

Why did I ever make mistakes in past. I remember every fuckup in perfect clarity. Even shit from when I was a toddler.

Have you called them up to say you are sorry?

Yes. The cunt considered himself the final arbiter of what is overpowered and what is not and placed himself at the apex.
Anybody considered weaker was getting laughed at and threatened by pvp.
Anybody who managed to argue themselves stronger to rein in the threats got bitched about to the GM that they're too OP and should not be allowed.

And of course there was moral absolutism, of course - everything they did they considered good, no matter how murderhoboery; and when somebody else planned to do things in the same vein they ate a ton of "reeee what you're doing is evil I'll kick your ass for it!!!"

Eventually brought the game into the grave. The GM for some ineffable reason kept GMing more games for the shithead and his gang of buddies, with all of them getting drowned in same bullshit.

Lost contact.

Have you tried the yellowbooks

get BLACKED

I may have played one once.
But that was mpre a "when you only have a hammer" situation.
And everyone seemed ok with my "everything is a nail about to be punchsploded".
He was reasonably balanced, but i was able to work around most of his weakspots 9/10 times.
Does that count?

Overseas and only knew first names. One is a little closer and I did apologies.

No idea about the others, they could be dead for all I know with the lives some of them lead.

savage

>There was also a guy with a body filled with nanobots that made him super strong, regenerated any wound instantly and did other shit, oh my god.

You guys ever had to fight a NPC Mary Sue who kept popping up in your campaign?

>The most telling part is that she actually beats a Sith
Did we watch the same movie? Ren's a Sith fanboy. He's not even a Dark Jedi, because he has no control over his emotions and has piss-poor lightsaber skills. He's strong in the Force but that's about it. Snoke himself says he's not fully trained, probably on purpose.

And yeah. He got fucking shot and took a shallow slice from a lightsaber before even fighting Rey.

My only problem with Rey is that she shouldn't know how to fly a ship as quickly as she does.
If there was a line about how the controls are similar to her speeder I'd handwave it but that didn't happen.

God this is literally the worst cop-out for crummy DMs

>Oh shit they're kicking this guy's ass too hard
>Better make up some bullshit so he survives
>I know I'll make it a part of his character so that they can never kill him
>Then I'll have him be a recurring villain
>Brilliant

Or even better
>This is my super special DMPC guys
>He's so amazing look he'll kill these things no sweat
>OH MY GOD HE BETRAYED YOU ISN'T THAT SOMETHING
>What do you mean you don't care
>Stop kicking his ass!
>Ugh he does this thing and you all get knocked out
>He'll be back though!

The first thing can be good, though. Like Harbringer in ME2, who could never really be killed (but was a persistent and constant enemy), because he didn't actually fight you physically, he just could possess any of his soldiers.

I'm sure every new player has started with one.

>My only problem with Rey is that she shouldn't know how to fly a ship as quickly as she does.

Or you know. Mindcontrol people on first fucking try.

I really hope it turns out that the guy they left to guard her was a double agent.

...

>The first thing can be good, though.

The kind of DMs who make those kind of characters generally don't do so because they want to make the character interesting, challenging or multifaceted, but because they have this story laid out in their heads that is so fragile that they cannot afford to lose the NPC, and will do anything to prevent it.

So, what do they do? He was the chosen one all along! He's a half-[powerful creature/deity/being]! Etc, etc., and it leads to this overwhelming feeling of removal of the players' agency.

Even if he's not a villain, being an ally to the party is just as bad because then you remove any sort of power they feel - they'll never be as good as the DMPC, so why do they even bother? The only case I've seen this work is when the DMPC is all-powerful but is so retarded he doesn't realize it

Someone with training > someone with no training
Every time. Not doing so results in the latter qualifying for mary sue status.

>Sex is so convoluted it takes a couple sentences to explain

>Or you know. Mindcontrol people on first fucking try.

To be fair she is a skywalker with Jedi training...

Man, I haven't seen that old pasta in years. Do you have the post from some ancient forum decrying bugs bunny as a character because he doesn't have any powers?

The first sentence explains it pretty well though.

Having your guts about to fall out is probably a pretty huge problem when you're trying to fight, though, and didn't the movie leave you with the impression that Rey had done some force stuff as a young kid, when her parents were still around?

Not the guy you're responding to, but it takes Ren about a minute of dueling to beat down a guy who not only has no training, but isn't even force sensitive in the slightest.

He's a loser, and just isn't that tough, for one reason or another. How many rebel soldiers do you think someone like vader could blow through in 5 seconds, even if you gave them lightsabers?

This is the real problem though; people comparing Ren to Darth Vader who was trained to be a Jedi since he was around 7-12 and he's been forged in the clone wars and taught by both Yoda, Obi-wan, and Darth Sidious. He's even the chosen one for fuck sake.

Point is, yes, Ren had little training - but a lot more than his opponent whilst still being wounded.

And my point is, Ren is a wimp, even with his training. He takes a full minute, and takes a slight wound in the process, beating a stormtrooper with a lighstaber.

Stormtroopers are mooks damn it. Ren's performance is roughly on par with that guy with the force baton thingy earlier in the movie. That's just not a particularly impressive on the scale of bad-guy-ness, so Rey beating him isn't that much of a stretch.

Are you forgetting how he gets one lesson in blocking while blind, and then in the space of less than 48 hours turns that into flying an X-Wing using the force?

So?

We have never seen any of the Skywalkers mindcontrol anyone. Not even Darth Vader did that, and he full on went through both being trained a Jedi and a Sith.

Unless Luke's classes for toddlers begin at "how to mind control your parents to let you stay up late", that shit is just not feasible.

>Stormtroopers are mooks damn it

>"Only Imperial Stormtroopers are so precise."

I think that one of the only things the new movie did well was to rehabilitate stormtroopers into notpussies.

Ren is a whiny emo pussy.

Aside, Finn was the worst fucking character since JarJar Binks. He should have been combined with the pilot character and played just by the white guy. The writers' insistence on giving him stupid, Americanized black patois dialogue was immersion-breaking stupidity, but they just couldn't help themselves.

You do realize that him having a hard time with traitor bitch was probably just because the writers put themselves in a corner and decided "let's make him badass so people will like him!"

It was a poorly written fan-fic with shitty "deep" characters with shitty "mysterious" backstory.

It's obvious to anyone with a pair of brain cells to rub together that Kylo getting shot in the side by the gun that's been hyped for the whole movie was setting him up to be beaten by the heroes who normally wouldn't stand a chance. So you're arguing with someone with at most one sad little neuron firing somewhere in that cavernous skull of theirs. Is it really worth it?

>We have never seen any of the Skywalkers mindcontrol anyone.

It's in the second god damned scene of Return of the Jedi. It's how Luke gets an audience with Jabba.

Return of the Jedi. Luke mind controls Jabba's second in command, and tries to control Jabba.

Kaldor Dragio

Once, when I was young and stupid, I was in a RP forum. And I had a character who kind of got turned into a Gary Stu because I got caught up in the wrong sort of clique politics, and he gradually got stronger and all of his weaknesses were ground away one by one, and never of his own "legitimate" doing, most of them just kind of vanished.

Thread's about mary sues, not shit gms.

Seeing as the Stormtrooper was James Bond in disguise, I dare say it was less Jedi mind-trick and more inside-job

>baited while claiming it's bait.

Pretty much sums up the stupidity of star wars fans.

At least he got training, and he was being guided by the spirit of his dead mentor.

>We have never seen any of the Skywalkers mindcontrol anyone

Luke got into Jabba's Palace with that...

She got training too. Kyle may not have meant it that way, but hands-on (or in this case brain-on) training is the best kind.

>MFW I've seen more mary sues in gmod freeform rp.
>MFW Most of them were men roleplaying edgy little girls.
>MFW I had to help moderate a server with 3 of these.
>They even got raped a bunch.
>I almost managed to kill them as the servers "monsters" but the head admin always saved them.
So much potential for gmod serious rp. Wasted by such latent debauchery.

I think the little "mind duel" they had was less about skill and more about willpower. Considering they actually showed us Crylo having a bitchfit in an earlier scene, I can believe that she's got more willpower than him.

At the beginning of the movie they show she's pretty good at H2H combat, so it's not like she's a complete amateur.
Also, at the beginning of the fight she wasn't doing any better than Finn was. It wasn't till she "used the force" that she started winning.

>My only problem with Rey is that she shouldn't know how to fly a ship as quickly as she does.
I don't get why people think she's never flown a ship before. That's never stated or really implied before.

She's a scavenger and mechanic. She mentions that she knows the changes that were made the falcon, so it's pretty easy to figure out that she had a hand in getting the supplies and making the modifications to it.
She's probably test flown it a few times so that the boss could see if it was working like he wanted.

lets not forget, that they twice remind you that Kylo had been shot during that fight.
But people still forget.
Did they need a third time, are they fucking Peter from the bible who needs to be told every last thing 3 times.

I took all this less as Kylo being weak, and more him being conflicted and kept intentially emotionally unstable.

If he was thinking clearly, why would he stay with the Dark Lord and want to hurt his family, who he still clearly loves. The Dark Lord wanted him angry, because embracing your anger is part of the Dark Side, and wanted him irrational and unstable.
He wanted Kylo barely in control of himself, so he needed to rely on others to give him guidance.

How is she NOT a mary sue? A mary sue is a character that completely warps the setting around them, ignoring many of the settings boundaries and overcoming many of their "flaws" almost immediately or having them work out to be secret bonuses.

>She is magically gifted at almost everything she touches
>Knows Wookie without interacting with them
>Comes from a desert planet in complete poverty yet is insanely athletic and the pinnacle of fitness.
>Every character she interacts with comes to like and appreciate her
> She can fly an old millennium falcon despite never flying a starship before.
> She can out mind fuck someone with years more training
> Her only "struggle" was crying about a lightsaber and then immediately overcomes it thanks to BB-buddy
> Almost magically defeats a lightsaber user with no training, with a weapons she would have no skill with
>Is given the keys to the millennium falcon and get the Wookie with her... BECAUSE?
>Is sent alone to find the most important character the rebellion has been looking for, no one else, even though Leia has only JUST met her BECAUSE?

Granted, she is going to be revealed as a skywalker, and ALL of them are major mary sues in their own stories but anyone thinking she ISNT a Sue... oh man... Anyone describing her as their "OC character do not steal" in the Star Wars general would be laughed off, but one Disney stamps on it she is above reproach, kek worthy at best.

That's stupid as shit... He wasn't training her, he was trying to dig into her mind, her turning that into "training for her" is Sue as fuck.

She is the poorest character in her society, forced to live out in the desert and barely gets enough to eat, she drives a speeder.

Even if she test flew it she would never have been able to perform the crazy shit it does in the movie, unless she was a skywalker, and they are sue tier.