MTG LEGACY GENERAL

Burn's manabase is almost 100% solid red across the board. The quickest way to beat combo is to not play a controlling game. You HAVE to race them. The instant you start in on a Thoughtseize/Cabal Therapy/discard plan, you're diluting your own deck while marginally hurting theirs, not to mention the possibility of hindering your manabase. And yes, control beats combo, but burn is not a control deck and in my opinion should never be played as such. You can always add Lotus Petals to the side to squeeze in extra damage between turns and phases if you really wanted.

One of our local modern burn players always forces it in legacy cube, it's kinda wonky.
I'm not convinced that being weak to waste and not playing pop (that or having a really inconsistent manabase) makes it a valid choice to splash back ~~

Tyrant's Choice seems better, since Burn sometimes runs Flame Rift

Ok, so maybe splashing black in burn isn't where I want to be at.

Another thing I was wondering: Goblin Guide or Monastery Swiftspear? I have the playset of monks, and don't want to get shilled on goblins. Is the downside on goblins relevant? Would I feel bad for playing bolts on my turn just to pump my monk, rather than my opponent's end step?
And if one is running the Goblin Guides... why not goblin grenade?

Not enough goblins to support goblin guide. And I think i'd run guide and swiftspear l.

What would you cut to run the Grenades? Also the "downside" of Guide is also an upside at times.

Both Swiftspear and Guide are strong in different ways. Goblin Guide is a 2/2 for R with Haste, which is a really fast clock in both Legacy and Modern. Swiftspear gets out of control very fast, especially if she sticks and you've been playing Draw-Go for the past several turns.

As far as Bolting on your turn, it depends on the deck you're playing against. If someone goes T1 Glistener Elf, you best Bolt that shit, especially in Legacy. You won't want Goblin Grenade because it's too situational and better in an actual Goblins deck; that is, you won't always have a Guide to pop. You should also take a look at this article, I always recommend it for Burn players.

starcitygames.com/article/27944_Burn-vs-Counters.html

Lourishing Nich Dorld Womination Tour 2k16 inbound

Fuck it, this is now my next deck. I don't give a good god damn. It's going to happen.

Seems like I'm not the only one giving into the temptation

...yet
Best part is you can turn it into a good storm deck once you are filled with regret.

I've heard a deep sense of regret adds to your storm count.

Too bad I'm saving up for an Underground Sea and/or a playset of Japanese Aether Vials (probably better to prioritize the Usea), or I would complete this deck faster.

What are you building that needs Vials?
DnT?

Modern Merfolk

>not trying to port Legacy Goblins over to Modern
What are you even doing?

>porting Legacy Goblins over to Modern
You might as well play Standard at that point, dude

>no RIngleader, Matron, Lackey, Warchief
>no mana denial in the form of Wasteland+Port

Why bother...

I did it last year, and it was __okay

Are you Fapanese?

I'm also building, just ordered a bunch of stuff last week.

Can you tell me what you're hoping to kill with Tec Edge and why the Wanderwine Hubs are in there? Just for Choke? Also how do you feel about playing less Harbingers (I have 3 maindeck in my list) and how good is Tidebinder Mage in the mainboard.[/spoiler]

Forgot my fucking name again.

More like weebanese. I like the overall aesthetic it adds to the deck. My Modern dredge deck also is around 50% JP, while my legacy reanimator is probably close to 70-75% JP.

The one of mainboard Tec Edge is to open up SB slots, and further pressure opponent's mana development. It's in there solely for testing purposes now though, not sure how good it is in reality.

Wanderwine Hubs are for Choke and Boil effects, I kinda want to add Minamo/Oboro as well, but haven't had the chance to acquire those.

Tidebinder main is just a meta call, as well as the additional Harbinger. People often add another Kira and Master of the Waves/Merrow Reejerey, but the deck is flexible like that.

To further explain myself: I don't normally play 8Seas, but I'm testing it after finding a bunch of Russian BB 9th edition Sea's Claim, and so far I like how they improve combat for me, as well as hamper my opponent's mana development, but I have to admit they don't always feel great.

>I kinda want to add Minamo/Oboro
I fucking hope it's good since I just spent $18 on a Minamo. Already had the Oboro.

>I kinda want to add Minamo/Oboro
I fucking hope it's good since I just spent $18 on a Minamo. Already had the Oboro.
Yeah I was wondering about the black Sea's Claims. The 8Seas list seems absolutely sick for color denial and I don't see how it could be bad with the 8 walker lords.

Too bad Legacy Merfolk blows now.

They're great in the mirror (don't enable Islandwalk for your oppo) and you're not susceptible to Blood Moons anyways.

I guess it's due to Miracles being so prevalent right now, and Merfolk not really being able to exploit the gap it creates in the meta. Maybe Standstill Merfolk is due for a revival, but I can't really see Merfolk making a grand comeback soon.

I think Deathrite is just such a huge blow by making a versatile mana dork and blocker. It really ruins the mana denial plan.

3 Firestorm in my sideboard solely for the Delver decks and DRS. I take no chances at all.

>>DRS was a mistake
or, The Littlest Planeswalker.

What were they even thinking? But I don't really agree that DRS is what makes Merfolk fall of the grid, since the mana denial plan isn't as prominent for the Deep Blue Band, than it is for Goblins.

Pithing Needle is my MVP

I run 4. Great against Delver, Elves, Gobbos, Infect.
>DRS was a mistake
Seriously fuck that guy. I couldn't even believe it when I read the card.

Hey buddy. I own UB Reanimator too (haven't played it since before Griselbrand was printed). What build do you run as far as colors and reanimation targets? Do you run Karakas? Urborg?

I just wish it was a 1/1 or a 0/1 to bring it slightly in line. As it stands it doesn't die to Engineered Plague on Elf and chumps YP tokens forever among other things.

I'm pretty straight UB, no green splash despite it being pretty common today (I don't own Bayous or Tropical Islands, so that's also a big reason not to). This means no Abrupt Decays to deal with hate, so I go over it with Show and Tells from the side.

My Reanimation targets are mostly Griselbrand (3), Iona, Elesh Norn, Grave Titan and Tidespout Tyrant, although I mix it up sometimes. If I expect a lot of Miracles for instance, I throw in an Inkwell Leviathan as an extra non-Legendary threat. I think Griselbrand and Elesh Norn are the only ones I never take out of the main.

Karakas isn't really worth the inclusion imo, and Urborg fixes other peoples mana better than it does ours, since UB is pretty easy to support.

True. Incredibly important for Dredge is the fact that it doesn't die to Darkblast, which is just insane to me. The card is broken beyond belief.

>no green splash despite it being pretty common today (I don't own Bayous or Tropical Islands
I own one of each. What do they splash G for? DRS?

Why the fuck do people play Grave Titan?

>Shoals are 12 quid per

Seriously?

What the fuck man, it never saw play EVER.

Yeah but guys, Deathrite dies to spot removal

upkeep darkblast, dredge 3, darkblast
If they don't have a B up, that is

Modern

Grave Titan is our fastest clock (10 power on the board is a two-turn kill), gets around Karakas, Innocent Blood, LotV, etc... I've won games with him where any other target wouldn't have gotten me the game. I've grown rather fond of this cadaverous bloke.

The G is almost solely for Abrupt Decay from the side (sometimes people play other stuff as well, such as Golgari Charm. Additionaly, it's an extra color to stick into Engineered Explosives)

They know. The Jew fears the Lich.
Yeah. That's awful though, especially if the second one gets fucking Daze'd.
That's pretty neat. The idea of AD in the side is pretty sick.

I'm presuming this is to offset multiple Griselbrand uses?

AD is mostly a crutch though okay, maybe not really, it's a great card, but I like the mana consistency UB provides and that it forces you to become better at playing around certain hate cards, such as Surgical Extraction for instance. AD also forces you to run Echoing Truth as well to combat Leyline, which really clogs up the sideboard.

Yeah I could see how Chain of Vapor might just be better hands down.

>especially if the second one gets Dazed
Once played a game with 3 cantrips and a Dredger in hand. Turn 1, cantrip got Dazed. Turn 2 cantrip got hit by FoW. Turn 3 went fine, but by the time I was Dredging I was at 3 and he had flipped Delver and gotten 2 triggers off Pyromancer. I've learned not to underestimate Daze.

I dislike Chain because you have an inclination to land one big permanent, and giving your opponent a free chance to bounce it just seems bad. It's not the same as with Dredge where you go wide, or Storm where your way of winning is through nonpermanents.

Combustible gearhulk in mono red stompy?
Contraband Kingpin in vintage?

Can anyone post the lich list?

Just came back after a long time and holy shit what is with these prices

How have prices gotten even higher on almost everything

the reserved list exists and people bought out shit
it's really really bad right now

Yeah, you chuck Worldspine Wurm for 11 life or Borkbork the Angry for 8, draw your deck, swing with hasty fatties with Goryo's or Enter the Breach

>that pic
Only for the purpose of World Peace.

4 Lotus Petal
2 Zuran Orb

4 Authochthon Wurm

4 Nefarious Lich
2 Lich

4 Brainstorm
3 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
4 Nourishing Shoal
2 Lim-Dul's Vault
1 Summoner's Pact

4 Thoughtseize
4 Ponder
2 Grapeshot

4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
3 Swamp
2 Underground Sea
1 Badlands
1 Bayou
1 Island

Some amount of grave hate, Abrupt Decay, Flusterstorm, and Pithing Needle in the side.

it sure would be nice if wotc actually cared about letting people play the game

you're crazy kid
thanks a lot

Anyone want to help me make a mill deck out of all my black and blue discard/mill cards.

I made a list of everything I thought was relevant that I own

tappedout.net/mtg-decks/magic-flush/

>Mill
You're better off attacking their hand if you ask me. Go for something like:

Creatures
4 Hippie
4 Asylum Visitor

Enchantment
4 Waste Not
4 Bottomless Pit
4 Necrogen Mists

Instant/Sorcery
4 Dark Ritual
4 Hymn
4 Therapy

Maybe even Mindslicer, which you can sac to flashback Therapies.

If you really wanna mill, start with Mindbreak Trap and Glimpse the Unthinkable, you'll probably want some countermagic as well. Use Ghost Quarters to force shuffles to trigger Mindbreak Trap. You can use your own fetches with Hedron Crab of you can go creatureless and blank your opponents removal. Run some number of Tormod's Crypt/Relic/Surgical/Leyline of the Void so you can exile GY. Many decks use the Gy as a resource and milling will help them too much, and any deck running emrakul will give you trouble without instant speed exile. If you chose to maindeck Leyline you can run Helm combo as an alternate finisher.

Can't have it die to Gutshot you silly Billy. How else will it hose snapcaster?

I definitely want to pressure the hand for effects, but also revolve the rest of the deck either around surgical exiles, general mills and creatures into mill with mindcrank if its worth it. Im going to play around. Glimpse the unthinkable is just too expensive for me to get 4 of

One question Legacy general.

How did the new Selvala get to ten bucks?, I pulled one and I thought it was good in EDH but nowhere near this price.

What's going on with Leovold too?, Are these cards seeing Legacy play?

Also, Are Sanctum Prelate and Recluiter as good as expected? Has D&T gotten better?, because I love the deck.

New card hype
Leovold is cutthroat commander
Prelate and Recruiter are legit, dnt stronk

>New card hype
But is it actually played in any deck in particular?

Omnath, Wandrer, Xenagod, Mayael, Sissy and Ghave

Any deck that makes Big Guys wants her

What do you guys think of this whole "Expeditions in every set" thing Wizard's is doing now? Is it good for legacy, or pointless? Will it take away the chance for meaningful reprints because they'll be used up as "expeditions" in other sets?

Why death & taxes doesn't run mana tribute?

correcting myself, the card called mana tithe

I don't think it will affect legacy. You'll see one of these ghost rares at a rate of 1:144 boosters. There won't be enough opened to significantly affect legacy prices.

Probably because your own Thalia makes it cost W(1) instead of just W.

What I want to know is, why doesn't Death and Taxes run Dust Drinker?

>meaningful reprints
It depends on what you mean by meaningful. This has literally never happened in the way some people talk about them i.e. printing old sets or a large print run set of old good cards a la Yugioh. They're fairly selective of the cards they print and their availability, so it's safe to say that it will never be significantly cheaper to play Legacy than it is now, but the costs might not rise AS much for reprinted cards.

I wish Masterpiece cards weren't foil.

The more eyes on the "promos" the better. I'll just be over here picking up original printings.

probably because rishadan port does what he does 90% of the time and doesn't invalidate a nonviable start. Also 4 drop.

>to affect Legacy prices
Why won't Wizards just fucking admit that the Reserved List was a mistake? Give me some dual lands you Jew fucks. I don't want to play Standard, I want to play high-powered ballistic formats.

Pic related. Fuck I'm so mad right now.

how about pauper
without banlist

>Give me some dual lands you Jew fucks
A stereotypical Jew wouldn't honor their promise.

At the same time, it's been 20 years since the List was created. I think it's far outlived it's promise, and the health of the game dictates that they would support growth in older formats as well as selling new product.

You can count on the fact that it will never happen while MaRo works for Wizards.

Wouldn't that be just mono red goblin grenade decks?

>mfw Goblin Grenade

Why can't they just ban the original dual lands?

Because fuck your poorfag.

Because muh collector outrage and muh alienated playerbase

Because Wizards cares more about the collectors than the competitive scene. The competitive base of players compared to the FNM players is absolutely miniscule. Compare the FNM players to the casual kitchen table players, again absolutely miniscule. So to wizards, the normal competitive player doesn't really spend money on product (which is a complete bold faced lie, I'm mainly doing Legacy, Modern and EDH, and I still play draft and standard if I can snipe a fun standard deck and still by commander pre-cons if they're worth a damn, legacy players don't just masturbate in a bubble), so wizards doesn't aim for them. That leaves two audiences, the casual and the collector. The collector is more willing to buy cases to flip on the secondary market, and the casual could give a damn about card value.

Wizards speculates the collectors will pull out (which economically wont happen. Even if wizards reprinted the duals in the 4c commander decks, collectors and shops would still be able to flip the blue duals for $30 or so each which would still be profit on them. They could easily sell 10 underground seas for every ABUR and make the same money. ABUR duals don't really move, so the $300 is sitting on the shelf), so they ignore Legacy exists.

Let's be real here, Wizards wants Legacy, Vintage and Pauper to be online only formats. They know MTGO would be fucking done if the eternal formats were viable in paper

and High Tide/Sacland Storm/Plated Affinity/Infect/Some kind of low level delver with Dazes and Disrupt which is best card and should be played more

Follow me a second

If they don't reprint but only ban them the collecting value remains the same, after all collectors are only interested in the artistic value and the rarity of the item, right?

And I would be glad to get rid of all this multi-color nonsense.

>force reprinted
>wasteland reprinted
>price of originals stays relatively constant
>cards like alpha dark ritual retain good value
>somehow reprinting duals with affect collectors
fuck you wizards

I honestly don't think they should ban dual lands, and if they do reprint them, they should be in a limited print run thing, or I would also like functional Duals. Like a legendary land dual land. It's not just the collectors that would be pissed (fuck them they are ass holes most of the time), I personally would be pissed knowing that I bought 1000 buckaroos worth of cardboard only for it to be invalidated a while later

Nah, because the high price of duals is based entirely around their competitive value, otherwise Badlands or Scrublands would be as expensive as the others. So banning all reserved list cards would just piss off the collectors more than reprinting them

>legacy players don't just masturbate in a bubble
Speak for yourself.

>MTGO would be fucking done if the eternal formats were viable in paper
This is an interesting argument.

There's no doubt that a a significant part of the value of dual lands are their utility coupled with limited supply.

Hell, didn't Maro put MORE cards on the reserve list than there were before? Like, Tempest all the way up to Urza's Saga.

I can only imagine Mill being strictly better in Modern than in Legacy... The only viable legacy mill deck I can think off is high tide, and even that is just a worse Storm deck

The general consensus is that the average pack value can only be higher than the MSRP by so much. When wizards added expeditions in BFZ and OGW, it came at the literal expense of the value of the other cards, which were absolutely awful. Granted, it's a good thing that Standard becomes a cheaper format, because holy shit 4colorgoodstuff Standard was the most digusting Standard since cawblade.
TL;DR: We just don't know

>OGW

Dunno man, the Eldrazi have something to say about that

Tempest was taken off the Reserved List before Rosewater became lead designer.

The only expansion of the Reserved List was when they said they couldn't print RL cards in foil.

Like always, it depends. If they consistently reprint modern and eternal staples they'll somewhat cheapen albeit the ghost rares will be more expensive than the originals. Still, I like them for what they are, fancy versions of their originals.

I know but collectors don't care about that do they? As far as I understood in what way the reserved list is legally binding it's just all about their "historic" value.

Friendly reminder that China is the savior of eternal formats.