Masterpieces: Kaladesh Inventions to follow the retconned Masterpieces: Zendikar Expeditions...

They plan on doing this for all sets now.

Also kaladesh looks to be decent.

>Warped how the product was selling.
Perhaps you should print more of them then?

This is good news for me as an EDH player. Every reprinting of Mana Crypt makes it more common which means it's more likely they ban this fucking piece of shit card.

Sure the ones shown are powerful. But you would be surprised how rarely they truly effect a limited game. Takeing 3 a turn from crypt isnt a heathey game plan if you didnt shit out a game ending bomb with it.

Good. Do this to reserved list shit.

>I'm mad there is now a 3/144 every player will get a bonkers good card in their limited pool. I only play limited once every 3 months you see, and the potential for someone to randomly open a good card, even if that person is me, seriously detracts from the quality of the game

>Magic_Community_Simulator.exe

>There's good things in this set
>That's how you know it's shit
Case in point

Turn one. Land. crypt. Soul ring. 4 drop. Pass

Hey, I'd REEE pretty hard too if they put a prostitute in my pack.
>All I wanted was a $3 pack, now I have to pay $20 for a handjob.

>Soul Ring
Loul

Scoop gg

but it wasn't
it was
bg

>there is a set
>that's how you know it's shit
>also magic is dead

where are you getting all these updates from?

>MADE EXPEDITIONS FOR EVERY SET
>LESS FREQUENT THAN THE EXPIDITIONS
>WE FUCKING DID IT GOYS
3 0 P I E C E S O F S I L V E R

That is one sexy bitch of a card. Much sexier than those ugly ass expedition lands.

These are straight off mothership

magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/masterpiece-series-2016-09-12

I dislike this "ultra super rarity" but at least they have Volkan Baga do all of the cool powerful old mana cards. See: Moxes (Both new ones and MtGO) and now Mana Vault

how this addresses eternal format accessibility I do not know because Expeditions did not drive the prices of any of the reprints down and this wont either.

>Namefag gets it wrong
Shocker

>Mana Vault

>Mishra's Workshop
>Sol Ring
>Mana Crypt
>Thorn of Amethyst
>Tangle Wire
Are we having fun yet?

We were optimistic that players would like Zendikar Expeditions, but the response was even more positive than we anticipated. As we watched, we started realizing something.

First, social media was filled with stories and pictures of people opening Zendikar Expeditions. We loved seeing this and being able to be part of the community's excitement.

Second, we noticed that people not only enjoyed opening the Zendikar Expeditions, they enjoyed playing with them as well. It was a way to make the opponent sit up and take notice when you played a card. "Is that a Zendikar Expedition?" "Why yes, it is." We had created a new kind of "bling" that players enjoyed. Hmm, a solution to challenge #3.

Third, all of Zendikar Expeditions (with the exception of the Battle for Zendikar rare duals) were cards that players had wanted reprints of. We had already tried putting old, powerful reprints into Standard-legal sets, but the impact on Standard was problematic. Zendikar Expeditions got the reprints into booster packs of a Standard-legal set without creating this problem. It wasn't a total solution, but it was at least another step in helping alleviate it. It also allowed us to find a solution that our bread-and-butter sets could help with. Hmm, a way to address challenge #2.

Fourth, we found that Zendikar Expeditions drove more players into the Battle for Zendikar block, which resulted in greater accessibility for all the non-Expeditions cards. Zendikar Expeditions actually made it easier to play Standard. Hmm, a way to address challenge #1.

So when we stood back and analyzed what Zendikar Expeditions had done, we realized that it made Standard more accessible, it got players access to older cards, and it provided alternatives for deck building. It wasn't a total solution for every challenge, but it helped address all of them. This, of course, led us to ask, "Is this something we should be doing more often?"

My bad, yeah Mana Crypt. Who knows maybe they'll throw in a Mana Vault too. Shit hasn't been reprinted in forever

Are we just... not talking about the new spoilers? The non-Masterpiece ones, I mean? I can't find any spoiler threads except this one.

You just missed it then, there were tons of responses to it.

I like this approach to red card advantage and am glad they are continuing with it. Slapping it in Feldon EDH as well.

Holy shit this is terrible. Red wants to be able to cast lots of stuff very quickly, so CMCs need to be low. You're basically losing the top 3 cards of your library to deal about 3 damage to an opponent, because nobody's going to give you 3 cards.

boards.Veeky Forums.org/tg/thread/49306280/

I'm happy I got my shit straight and stopped when I saw the expedition. I for one will enjoy seeing magic bootlicker defend their new "secret rare" rarity.

Oh wow, thank you. Must have been hidden by the page refresh or something. Thanks!

...

then you overinvest in a niche product with limited audience

>You now have the chance to pull a secret rare, why aren't you thanking us Goy
Remind me of the Mythic debate.

To explain this for anyone not into economics

These are value sinks.

Because the expected value of any given set will always dip to msrp eventually( because when its higher people will keep buying cracking and selling it until the supply is high enough thats no longer true) that means set value is limited, and thus has to be split between all cards in a set. This used to make all the tourney tier mythics super expensive and lock people out of standard but now these expeidtions are sucking those price points away making the standasrd cards over all cheaper.

People need to buy a SHITTTON OF BOXES to make a profit off these sets because the expeditions are so rare; that will in turn flood the market with loads and loads of every other card in the set, making standard cheaper for all.

This is mtg wealth distribution; those rich asholes blinging out there edh decks are basically paying for your standard playsets.

>making standard cheaper for all.
Only for the card nobody use, but Veeky Forums is awful at magic so they wouldn't know.

They should have made Eternal Masters not shit, and they wouldn't need to turn Standard expansion sets into lottery tickets. Not to mention these things aren't "giving people access to older cards" when they're rarer and just as expensive as their original counterparts.

it's not gonna see play in rdw, but it might be viable in some kind of recursion deck where getting cards in hand or graveyard is gas either way, and definitely gonna see some janky erratic explosion type deck

it really is suprising on how bad eternal master was (Balance at mythic HAH)

While conspiracy 2 was full of amazing reprints.

FIFTY masterpiece cards per block

We're gonna get Arcbound Ravager, Mox Opal, practically every artifact of note.

This is marketing genius. We're all going to spend SO much time arguing about what cards will be in Amonkhet Masterpieces, and never mind once we hit a return block...

Personally I'm holding out for Masterpiece Nicol Bolas. 8 mana for a 7/7 flyer? I'd probably even play it in Limited.

I'm alright with this it isn't near as bad as yugioh secret rares it's just some rare cards that pop up once in a while that don't really affect the set of cards that much it seems

In response, i hexproofed myself :^)

he's not saying these make older cards mire accessable, h 's saying they make newer cards more accessible due to high supply.

Not happening unless they print more Which will never happen since they lived through 90's hockey card crisis

It replaces the common right, like a normal foil?

Doesn't sound that bad.

>caring about lottery tickets in boosters instead of just ordering the singles you want

Fuck off retards.

yes. basically the foil mythic pool in this set includes the masterpiece artifacts.

With expeditions, 90% of the people that opened one saw something they could sell for most of a standard deck. Then there was one or two guys who wanted to bring out their modern jund manabase. It's the same thing as the fetches in khans, everything else in this set will be dirt cheap.

or if people who would otherwise hoard boxes have to open them to find expenditions to actually get value out if their purchase.

Each expedition is coming with 2159 other cards from the pack. That means these are eighteen times rarer than the rarest cards in the set.

Once the boxes drop to $100 even the most valuable card in the set will see a steep price cut because of the price of the masterpeices

You've never heard of Big Red, have you? Red is just as happy going high as it is going low.

Yeah but the Masterpieces aren't even effecting standard.

They're not some standard staple that's suddenly going to be in high demand.

You don't play it in a burn deck you fuckin tard

We'll see when and if any of the preorder prices go down over time.

83 % you'll open a box without an Expedition. These boxes, on average, will yield slightly less than you paid for the box, giving you about $90 of cards at eBay prices, minus fees and shipping.
3.4 % you'll open a box with a slowland for your Expedition. These boxes will make you a little bit of money, giving you about $140 of cards at eBay minus fees and shipping.
6.8 % you'll open a box with a shockland as your Expedition. These boxes will make you a good profit. You should be able to double your investment and sell the contents for right around $200 at eBay minus fees and shipping.
4.08 % you'll open a non-blue fetchland as your Expedition. These boxes will make you slightly more than the shockland boxes, and you should be able to sell the contents for about $250 at eBay minus fees and shipping.
2.72 % you'll open a blue fechland as your Expedition. These boxes should allow you to triple or even quadruple your initial investment and sell the contents for somewhere between $325 and $425 at eBay minus fees and shipping.
Opening a single box is incredibly risky. While getting $90 is fine, it isn't quite to the breakeven point. Even if you get lucky and open an Expedition, 20 percent of the time this will be a slowland which will turn your box from a slight loss into a slight gain. It's really the 13.6 % of boxes that contain a shockland or fetchland Expedition that make the entire process of opening boxes a money winner.

What this means is that until you are willing to open one and a half or two cases, you really can't feel safe opening a box to make a profit. While it is still possible to get unlucky at this point, once you start opening BFZ by the case you are likely to even out the variance. As a result, Battle for Zendikar is great for big vendors, or even mid-sized dealers who will be opening case upon case of Battle for Zendikar. They know that every single box they open is money in the bank.

That boggles my fucking mind too. Conspiracy looked great, but somehow EMN was just "shove this shit in, that'll do pig".

>these things aren't "giving people access to older cards" when they're rarer and just as expensive as their original counterparts
The simple fact that there are more of them gives access. They don't have to be printed like fucking stamps to grow the pool.

Heron's Grace continues to pay for herself. :^)

>"Players were having trouble getting access to older, more powerful cards."

Says it right there in . This is to get people access to older cards, but the only two ways to get them are either cracking packs/boxes or getting them singly (either via buying, trading or what have you).

If they really cared about accessibility to the older formats, they'd just make EMA/EMN unlimited print runs and commit to really getting the format's cost down.

They don't though, so we get these Masterpieces, which won't drop prices of the originals, while these will go for way more than the people who want to get into older formats but cant, will be able or willing to pay.

This is lip service to trying to get people into older formats.

>Each expedition is coming with 2159 other cards from the pack. That means these are eighteen times rarer than the rarest cards in the set.
But those 2159 other cards would have been there anyways. It's not like they have changed how much they would have printed for them. The only people it really affect are the big seller who open more every set than you will in your entire life.

They are.
By pulling away value from the rest of the set.

BFZ's value without the expeditions was barely 90 bucks, and that was on RELEASE day .

Vendors are going to be buying CASES of the set because thats consistent profit off of masterpice selling

But that means you have mounds and mounds of the other cards in the set.

With a supply increases to stupid levels the prices will plummet because of the basic law of economics.

Cards loose value as time goes on in proportion to there rarity as compared to the rarest cards in the set.

With just mythics the spread is 1:8 to 88:8

with Masterpices it's 1:144 to 1584:144

are to put it every term

For every single Masterpiece sold you are adding to circulation aprox:

18 mythics

36 rares

521 Uncommons

1584 Commons

Bfz prices outside the top end of the rare slots were basically dirt.

it's most expensive non expeidtion was Gideon and we all know whats up with his value.

>the only way to get the cards is to buy them
HOLY SHIT GUYS, THESE COMPANIES ACTUALLY WANTS US TO BUY THEIR PRODUCTS INSTEAD OF GIVING THEM FOR FREE. WHAT THE FUCK?

Masterpieces / Expeditions
Huh. Alright cool.

>Look more into is and find this shit.
Alright... Now this is not ok. Not at all.

>BFZ's value without the expeditions was barely 90 bucks
>BFZ playability value was barely above 0.
There's only one reason BFZ sold and it wasn't because the set was good.

Is this actually any rarer than a normal Foil copy would be?

That's the entire point. Supply and demand . Those sellers cracking those huge volumes will be left with literally mountains of every other card in the set ; and supply that high means cheap prices.

It's math and economics. The expected value of a box will always stabilize to its ev, that means after the big sellers cash out with those cases and cases , the price points of the boxs will have to lower because by definition they will be cracked and resold until its not profitable.

That means that a set like Kaladesh will HAVE to be worth around 110 maybe 120 in ev once it stabilizes .

Becasue the Masterpices are sol valuable and rare, very little of that price drop off will be coming off of there prices.

Or to say it another way, big sellers will buy and crack it until the masterpiece prices drop to the point were its not worth it; buy the time that happens everything else in the set will be dirty cheap because the masterpieces will always be several orders of magnitude more valuable than the rest of the set.

It's one pie but now you have a huge fatass eating half of it.

No matter how big a slice of half a pie you take, it's still half a pie.

Mythics that would be liek 40 bucks are gonna be 20 and rares will probably cap off at about 4 for the best ones(probbaly lands) and 1 for everything else.

Well yeah it was a shit set, but expeditions are going to take almost half the sets entire value .

That means cheap buylist prices for everyone; easy money for big sellers and loaddasales for wotc. Even the richassholes get new bling.

Literally no one is worse off and almost every mtg group benefits massively.

>That's the entire point. Supply and demand
No, the entire point is playability, any rare or mythic that see play outside of standard will actually be in the 20 to 50$ range. The bargain bin rare will keep being bargain bin because nobody want them outside of shitty EDH or gimmick build.

>To explain this for anyone not into economics
>These are value sinks.

I already know what they do brah
Doesn't mean I can't dislike them, especially since they'll impact Limited which I play the most. Same reason why I dislike Mythics. At least these'll be rarer

>they'll impact Limited
Will they? What do they replace?

Significantly.

An Invention is less rare than a foil mythic.

nothing; one masterpiece will show up in every 12 pods.

Sellers need to buy by the case to make profit off of masterpieces, but when they due its guaranteed.

this encourages sellers to flood the market with mountains of standard legal cards just to get the handful of lottery tickets.

Basically, crackers buy and crack until the supply tanks the value, then they stop and the costs of the cards stabilizes.

Usually this means when all those chase mythics that define standard become to cheap to profit on .

Now instead fo stopping then, they will keep going until the Masterpiece prices stabalize.

But since those masterpieces are so valuable by the time they stabilize, even the mythics will be cheap.

Well, they get more copies of them into the world. Not a lot but at least some.

Also, opening one of the bling cards means you can sell it and buy the cards you actually need for older formats.

It's a win-win for everyone. Wizards sells more cards and people get extra value and lower Standard prices.

>HOLY SHIT GUYS, I CAN'T READ. WHAT THE FUCK?

dingdingding

the former helps the later

Masterpieces basically make all the other cards the paper lottery tickets are printed on; not very valuable

But you can't actually play them right?

you can.

although five of them will just be the gearhulks

Hey, better than getting the normal gearhulk foils.

>the border looks cool as fuck

I am entirely okay with this.

>anonymous artificer

URZA CONFIRMED

Are masterpieces standard legal, or only made from standard legal cards?

>Not Gix

masterpiece reprints are not standard legal. Any that are new prints of the set ,for kaladesh the gearhulk cycle, are.

If the expeditions are good, like fetchlands.
If they're bad like OGW, they'll get the set more opened that if they didn't exist, but not with the same intensity. 1 Wasteland was wonderful, but 7/10 of the fetchlands were worth as much.

This has gearhulks in, those shits won't be worth a dime and anyone who opens them while looking for the Mana Crypt will be pissed.

They're not standard legal, but they're legal in any limited format they're pulled in. So basically, someone's going to stomp a prerelease somewhere with a Mana Crypt.

The only bad thing about EMA was it being limited.
If it wasn't limited Show & Tell would be piss cheap now save for the Volcanic Islands, CoT and Intuition.

>This has gearhulks in, those shits won't be worth a dime
Nigger what? This is Midrange: the Zookeeping. Every deck is going to run gearhulks. I wouldn't be surprised to see 4+ in every top deck. And when every deck needs 4 of a mythic, that mythic gets expensive.

Oh yeah, those Zedikar expeditions really helped drive down the price of Ancient Tomb, the Enemy Fetchlands, and all the other rare cards that need to be reprinted to actually be affordable.

Good grief, pull the other one MaRo, it's got bells on it.

>the Masterpieces use actual bronze metal print

Niiceeeeeee

The problem is that they are being touted as a way to improve the availability (which I'm pretty sure is WotC code for "lower the price") of the megamythics, but they're being reprinted in homeopathic amounts, it won't actually affect the price much.