The PCs enter a tavern, an inn, another social gathering place or even just a city

...

Fucking swordlets. When will they learn?

>You wouldn't deny a PC his walking staff, would you?
You bet your ass the guards would if he's not crippled or elderly.

It takes a long-ass time to take off every piece of plate-armour just to spend five minutes talking/drinking at an inn. The helmet, gauntlets and other extraneous parts might be taken off to have a breather, sure, but I'm not gonna waste time fiddling with the rest of it unless I'm off to sleep.

What if the person in question is wearing some sort of cursed armor that they can't take off? Would be interesting to see how it would effect their everyday lives and well-being such as exhaustion from having to constantly sleep in plate while they're on a quest to find a way to remove it.

>tfw I can only shove small morsels of food through my visor
>tfw I haven't had a real meal in years
Kill me. Oh wait, you literally can't, you pleb! ;_;

It's fucking fantasy not real life you dumb prick. Unless it's a legit ultrarealistic roleplay that everyone agrees to then it's pretty unreasonable and pretentious as shit of you to expect them not to wear their armour and arms.

99% of gripes you retards have can be solved by remembering this is not a life sim (unless it is) and just a fun game people play where we put on characters

It's for this exact reason I get glamered armor and weapons. I don't want to have to deal with this sort of thing, so I AM always armed and ready and people simply do not know. In some systems (namely D&D 3.5, 4th, PF and other derivatives near that mark) rocket tag makes not wearing armor deadly in the extreme.

Wasted quads.

Not every establishment is the same, and it's very reasonable for some establishments to reject armed/armored patrons. Especially in a city. If it's some kind of roadside inn that takes in adventurers on a regular basis, they'd probably have a more lenient policy. An inn smack dab in the middle of a major metropolis? Nah... nah. That's a good way to turn a common barroom brawl lethal.

>this thread
SHALL

careful, this board is a /co/mblr colony

Retarded pointless argument, I don't care enough to argue this

Make a tavern that asks its patrons to not arm themselves when they walk in then if this triggers you so hard that you make a post about it

>your entire full-time job is to kill the dudes
>spend time taking off and putting on your gear constantly while taking breaks because some peasant might get butthurt
Yeah, that makes perfect fucking sense.

>free state

>implying
I go to my lcs every week senpai

>State isn't free
Time to show why CHAOTIC GOOD is best

>Fighters have to rely on a high AC to survive
>Casters have all manner of spells to protect themselves
>LOL why don't fighters run around in normal clothes when conflict could break out at any moment
I mean if you want to make fighters more useless go ahead, just don't be surprised when nobody decides to play a fighter since you end up being weaker offensively than the casters, literally worthless for support, and in many situations weaker defensively than the casters.

Sure, but tell them beforehand. If you don't inform people that something about them has changed, they are going to assume it hasn't. Acting like its their fault they didn't know is absolutely terrible.

This is why i kill smug casters at level 1 when they're squishy

...

>The PCs enter a tavern, an inn, another social gathering place or even just a city
>Something happens that requires a violent solution
>The GM expects the fighter not to be wearing his full plate

You can't retroactively give the fighter shit about it. It sounds like the fighter already got in wearing his full plate and you only just now realized it.

I used to be a football player for highschool with thoughts of going (kek) pro. That shit took up literally 8 hours of my entire fucking day, but you didn't see me wearing my Warrior pads everytime I wanted to go to the motherfucking McDonalds.

You generally have the choice of playing what is available or going on line which has the issue of playing with a bunch of randoms meaning you can't actually trust your group to not be a bunch of idiots going in. DnD itself isn't the issue (although pathfinder is a fucking mess when it comes to balance) and no system is perfect, but it is the job of a GM to modify the system and game to fit his players.

Want fighters to act like normal people? Give them incentive to not be bloodthirsty sociopaths. A paladin has a background as a soldier? Make it so any soldiers would laugh in the face of the party bard for trying to manipulate them, but willing to listen to another battle hardened soldier. Want your players to walk around in normal people clothes when doing normal people things like shopping? Make the shopping area mostly safe outside of pickpockets and con men.

FFS you could even provide direct incentive for them to act like normal people outside of battle. Fighter runs around in full plate constantly? Have people in town look at him funny and characters refer to him as "that weird guy running around town in armour" or have shop keepers try to shoo him out for scaring customers. After all how do you think people would react if a smelly hippie (druid), a smelly neckbeard (wizard), a naked man with a grenade launcher (barbarian), and two men in full military armour with automatic weapons (paladin and fighter) were walking through a mall looking for more guns and ammunition?

>you didn't see me wearing my Warrior pads everytime I wanted to go to the motherfucking McDonalds.
now imagine that every time you go to McD's there was a chance that a game would start right there and that losing there means that you are not allowed to play it anymore
now imagine that this was everywhere

>After all how do you think people would react if a smelly hippie (druid), a smelly neckbeard (wizard), a naked man with a grenade launcher (barbarian), and two men in full military armour with automatic weapons (paladin and fighter) were walking through a mall looking for more guns and ammunition?
I'd tell them that in Shadowrun you have to be a bit more/less subtle than that
And that the weapon shop is in the other mall

But noone else in McDonalds is wearing pads either, so the playing field is level.
Even if they have concealed padding, there's no reason the player couldn't do the same

This is a pretty foolish argument.
Playing football was a hobby, a time intensive hobby, but a hobby not your source of income and only skillset.

A better example, you're a plumber with a toolbelt that you wear around. And many times even when not already contracted people will come up to you and beg that you help fix their sink. Or worse, occasionally there are just broken sinks fucking everywhere and if you don't fix them when they show up not only are you not allowed to be a plumber anymore, but you drown due to a fucking leaky faucet... okay the metaphor broke down a little at the end.

this guy has the right idea

>Even if they have concealed padding
>if the have concealed padding
>concealed padding
wat.
That's not how football pads work
That's not how any of this works

Since there's a party of adventurers wandering around and they're probably not the only party of heavily armed dudes wandering around in existence there's not too big a reason to think it out of place.

It's a bit closer to sword wielding Samurai, while you could take off your sword, it's entirely possible there will be other samurai there, who will have swords because they're LEGALLY ALLOWED TO CARRY THEM FUCKING EVERYWHERE. If you don't have yours and they have theirs, you gonna get stabbed.

see user, here the analogy breaks down, because I have no fucking clue about the game

In game terms: while the other people there might be less armed they are
>more
>faster
>armed
this means that the fighter is at a disadvantage.
The only way that he can protect himself is with weapons (which are most likely big and thus obvious in contrast to the knives on the enemies) and armor (which is normally pretty obvious)

When you restrict the bar to no obvious gear you harm the fighter (because he has no weapon or armor) and help the enemies (Because their gear is usually more concealable)
In contrast a rogue has no disadvantage because his weapons are small (daggers, knives,...), his armor usually small and he is able to dodge better, making absorbing strikes less important

...What?

Even in a fantasy world, WHY would a random fight (or in this case, football game) just spontaneously blow me the fuck out for no reason?

Just because we live in fantasy land doesn't mean regular humans just want to suddenly kill each other in a bar for literally NO fucking reason.

And say I walked into Burger King and happened to meet one of my rivals there. Let's also say that we hated each other so much that we wanted to play a one-on-one right there, right in the middle of the nice family trying to enjoy their Whopper value meal.

What would we do?

Well we'd just play without our pads, of course. It's like the difference between NBA and street ball.

The NBA is pretty much just war, and Shaq and Michael Jordan are David and Goliath.

Streetball is like a bar fight, where there are no rules and it can happen in any place, at any time.

Wow, these analogies really are starting to spiral out of control

It's a fantasy world being run by a GM that may or may not be malevolent. You should always expect an ambush.

People are trying really hard to justify acting in a completely unrealistic fashion, the hell is wrong with you?

Armour is a pain in the arse to wear and makes travelling tiring, it would ONLY be worn when necessary or if you are too poor to have a pack animal. This idiotic idea that it being a fantasy setting makes common sense go away needs to die.

That is not how it works either. A sword is easy to carry around all day, armour and a shield is not.

That is why people carried swords/big knives but did not go about their day in harness.

This is literally a complaint thread, this dismissal makes no sense.

The metaphor is spiraling because a bad one was chosen to begin with and now that it's being taken to its logical conclusion you see how bad it was.

Also, you dont just get to change which sport you're using in the middle of your explanation. A better example would be if Wayne Brady and one of the Manning brothers decided to play a game of football right in a building, not only are you likely to injure yourself, even if you're playing touch football, but any injury, even if it was entirely untinentional or accidental would effectively end their careers.

If you don't believe that even in a pickup game of football with no pads that people cannot get injured, potentially even permanently you have likely never actually played the game.

Fucking this.

Remember when people were getting assblasted about that fat guy from Game of Thrones still being fat after months of gruel and harsh conditioning? Remember how that fat guy's excuse was literally just "lel it's fantasy, I ain't gotta explain shit", and everyone was like "What? No. Internally consistent logic dictates the physics of this setting, and being able to lose 20 pounds of chub is one of them."

What the fuck happened to that?

>Armour is a pain in the arse to wear
Not when I've enchanted it to be very comfortable

People can get trough the fucking door and attack you. Lets say your group killed a dragon and his cult followers want you dead. They might ambush you with concealed weapons inside the tavern or bust trough that door screaming dragoonu akhbar swinging their swords. Either way you are fucked. It's a goddamn fantasy. Unless the place can provide adequate safety for its patrons (a special club run by a mob or something) or there is a special restriction on weapons and armour ie. a palace or a temple i dont see why you would not be paranoid as fuck. Also it's fucking tedious describing taking your stuff of every time you have to take shit. Oh wait your pc's dont shit in your setting? That way to unrealistic for me man...

Right and every level one fighter should have a squire to help him waste a round when fighting kobalds to get ambushed.

Please.

Shield can be worn on back, no problem, armor can be worn all day, ask a soldier who wears body armor and carries +60kg in a rucksack, or you know, the fucking guards who walk around all their shift in what? Armor.

And in a world where at any point bandits, goblins or fucking skeletons could attack from behind bushes, out of backrooms or from the sewers, yes, you make the sacrifice and wear your armor anytime you're not sleeping.

Pretty sure marines don't wear their plate carriers indoors everytime they want to go to the local brothel

but a PMC might, and the party aren't regular military with a barracks and armory to store their shit, if they leave all their valuable armor in the cart outside or not on/near them they cannot guarantee some skullduggerous thief will not try to abscond with them and pawn them to some seedy merchant.

Brothels and Bars are two very different things, unless its one of those Brothel/Bar hybrids, but that so far wasn't stipulated. Besides, all the good bits are blocked by the leg guards, the chestplate don't come off for that and I ain't a kisser.

All I'm saying is, historically speaking, people took off their armor when they were indoors; and the basic fact that this is a fantasy game does not negate that logic.

Also, I'm using modern anecdotal evidence to support my claim, which did not, admittedly, hold up quite as well as I hoped it would.

As for the whole injury thing or whatever, I thought we were assuming this was a situation catering to intense human emotion that accounted for irrational discourse and potentially lethal action. Just to add my two cents, you can get tackled onto cement and you probably won't die. It's pretty dangerous, but in a highschool or barfight setting, it's not very likely to lead to death.

>People are trying really hard to justify acting in a completely unrealistic fashion, the hell is wrong with you?
I don't know, wizard, remind me why somehow there are a number of spells per day you can cast and no more, that they somehow have levels, that you supposedly memorized them over years of study but can learn dozens more after six months of hitting kobolds with fireballs?
D&D breaks down if you think about it too hard.

That's highly setting dependent.

That looks like Havel

Maybe in our world where such things aren't commonly super dangerous magical weapons.

You'd bet your fucking ass we'd ban random pieces of wood in a world where there's such a thing as wand of fireballs.

Not that user, but that whole "casting per day" rule triggers me so fucking goddamn hard.

Can you only do a backflip once per day? Can you only solve a calculus equation only once per day? Like, literally what? Huh? Why? How does this work again? Like, if I went to the supermarket and met a qt, why would I just be limited to one CHARMINGSMILE! spell per day? What? It literally makes no sense.

Do I have to recharge my personality? What? Huh? WHAT? WHAT?!

Then introduce soft penalties (but don't go full sperg and make it over the top) like fatigue / soreness from wearing your full gear all the time. If you're in a place where weapons aren't allowed, have the guards ask them to surrender their arms. Just don't do it so much that your PCs wonder why the fuck they got the gear in the first place.

No user, Havel is airport.

Because you're a shit DM stamping out cookie cutter Prancing Pony inns in towns that mysteriously have all the guard in the world to play weapon registration police but can't actually be counted on to enforce the peace.

*I* don't have this problem because my players can expect me to tell the if they're headed into some royal soire where dragging gear in will be shameful, some noble's get-together where everyone's expected to be discretely packing some just-in-case gear mostly out of sight, or some sell-sword hole in the wall where displaying your gear openly is just common courtesy.

If your players can't tell the difference between the kind of town where wearing a sword is being a dick by virtue of breaching the peace and the kind of town where failing to wear a sword means being a dick by virtue of failing to provide for the common defense, it's your towns that suck not your players.

Perhaps typically, but even then only in a place they knew to be safe. If I'm walking into a den of thieves and cutthroats, or even the more common ruffian, I'll keep mine on thanks, unless there's a sign at the door in which case, guess we'll go to one of the dozen other taverns that doesn't care about that shit.

Also in the continuing football conversation, if in a bar-football match, which likely means alcohol has been had by at least one side and probably a lot of it, you are tackled or otherwise collided with, even if you don't die, serious or even just longterm injury could mean an end to your livelihood if not your life.
A warrior who cannot fight is no warrior, regardless of if it is because he is old, sick or injured. Who would hire him?

Then the GM is shit and you should call him out on this.

If you're at the point where you have magic armor, random street thugs shouldn't be an issue, even without armor.

It's just an abstraction to represent the fact that you aren't going to be able to land your SUPER KILLING BLOW(tm) every time you pick up a sword, that you're not going to be able to charm the panties off every barmaid, or be able to solve every math problem through an instant flash of insight.

The game figures you'll be able to do the amazing stuff about 1/day and the pretty good stuff about 1/fight and it leaves it up to the player to decide when the optimal time in the story to bring it in will be.

If your rogue is trying to figure out when to spend his one super-backstab ticket, your IC/OOC barrier is leaking.

>I don't understand the basic concept behind Vancian casting.
I'm not saying it's good game design, but it really isn't hard to understand.

>implying the GM is not always malevolent.

If you're at the point where you have enchanted armor, random street thugs shouldn't be an issue.

Yeah, well warriors, or linemen, or literally whoever the hell aren't very well known for their tempered discipline.

I'm assuming that if I meet someone, and we hate each other enough to want to kill each other on the spot, then we're probs going to go at it without any concern for anything.

People get into knife fights and stuff all the time, knowing full well their lives are in real danger.

I guess the best answer is "How does the DM describe the setting?" like that one user said; and then from there, you gotta suit your characters to match.

Yeah, nah, I understand that, but literally why? Why not just make it like a "Hey, roll a 20 and you can instakill this guy", or a "Hey, roll an 18 or higher and instawoo this girl"?

At least that way it'll mimic real life slightly more deliberately rather than just have it set at an arbitrary number.

Oh, wow. THREE per day? My skills are narrowed down to an arbitrary number within a 24 hour period like they're bottles of tylenol with doctor's orders on them?

Like, huh?

Don't know what this "Vancian" casting is, but trust me. I know WHY they did it ("oh, buzzer shots can only happen once per basketball game or whatever"), but I just don't agree with the mechanics behind it and I definitely don't agree with how it's become the standard for most games. Even Skyrim and Oblivion had a "cast once per day" thing, and it just ruined muh immersion so hard...

>tfw someone asks me why don't I lift my visor
>tfw I have been eating through the eye slits for 8 years.

I bet your party doesn't even hire linkboys

>The fighter expects to be wearing his full plate
Did you tell him he wasn't? No? Then he is.

Honestly, eating would be my least concern.
Now, shitting...

In the Dungeons and Dragons comic, having adventurers sitting around still wearing their armor is commonplace and expected. This may or may not apply depending on what you're running, but there is official precedent.

You simply wouldnt put on full plate unless you were about to go into battle or training.

This man has 24 and a half concealed pistols in this picture alone.
What's your player's excuse?

The major problem here is that there are no easy mechanics for handling why people wouldn't be wearing their plate armor all the time. Along with carrying all their gear so long as they are just barely belong their max carrying capacity.

And this is why most of my martials have at least a few ranks in Craft (Armor). They all have custom-ornated magic armor to be pimping looking so that it works both in the battlefield and it looks decorative enough for a noble party.

Because not having everyone be able to "roll a 20 and you can instakill this guy" is then entirely unfair to every other member of the party.

If there's no reason to have anything other than infinite uses of spells which can be used to substitute any other skill, mechanic, or even common sense there's no reason for the player to do so.

If you can't just throw a nuke at every enemy you encounter, you'll actually think about when to throw the one you have.

Also, it's MAGIC, magic gets to work however magic damned well chooses. If you don't like that play a setting/version that doesn't have those rules.

Is it half a pistol or half concealed?

>be denethor
>sit around in my throne room every day doing steward shit
>talkin with sauron and junk, scheming
>never in any actual physical danger
>WEAR GODDAMN ARMOR 24/7, EVEN WHEN I'M ASLEEP

Come at me, bros.

Half a pistol. Look at his nose very carefully. Or don't, if you want to not get shot

Reminds me of the woman with the cursed armor in those who hunt elves.

Because the point of doing it that way is to empower you as a player to write your character's story. You aren't waiting on a 20, you're deciding when to pop the good stuff at an opportune time thinking "this, this is the big moment."

Essentially, it's tactical narrativism. You're deciding when to take your big risks and to declare it your time to shine that fight/day. That's not going to appeal to everyone. But it does appeal to some.

That's why the ranger wears leather, because people actually wear leather instead of fused and riveted slabs of bent metal

My whole party runs of minimal gear.

Barbarian/Rogue Tavern brawler-grapler

Monk (excluding the Wot4E monk)

Swashbuckler/D.Sorcerer

Moon Druid

Blade Warlock

Have fun trying to "surprise" them when they have no gear.

>be monk going into tavern
>see sign that no weapons are allowed inside
>shrug and walk in
>barkeep gives me hassle for coming in "armed like that
>have to leave my fists at the door
>never drinking here again.

Say it to the guy who can swim in lava and live.

But when you never know if a battle is around the next street/bush/boulder/grassy gnoll you wear your armor every chance you get.

Also this implies everyone is human too, Dwarves? They don't give a fuck about wearing chainmail all day. Half-Orc? No damned problem, he can run a marathon in that shit. Draconian? Wears armor and can still fly. If anything, taking off the armor would be an inconvenience enough to not bother and instead go to another more welcoming establishment.

I like the idea that PCs have a noncombat equipment set.
So while you have your battle/dungeoneering equipment listed that has your full plate and your enchanted warhammer of dwarven runic overcompensation, you also have a set of clothes and equipment you're expected to have just going around town and doing shit like resarching, oracticing, playing the magic mart or crafting.
So the fighter might have an arming jacket and short sword, the wizard has his staff and components for a couple everyday spells at most and the cleric is in robes and just carrying their divine symbol loaded up on healing spells.

Problem is I'm not sure how you'd avoid players gaming the fuck out of it and insisting that no, having a fireball spell primed at all times is totally keeping in character!
Pretty sure there's something in the idea, but it would take a smarter man than I to make it work.

It helps that iirc they were attacked by zombies breaking through the floor on the page after that one.

Adventurers are always battle ready because the world is literally out to get them.

It would probably help if the GM says:
>"Guys, you will go in and out of town a lot. And want to you make a list of things that you would want to carry around in town and I see what the town would allow. It's more convenient that way."
And then it's set in stone. No discussion.

>Don't know what this "Vancian" casting is
It's the casting system of leveled spell slots that every version of D&D has used.

The justification the lore presents is that a wizard does not cast spells on demand, because a wizard's spells are long and involved ritualistic processes that cannot be preformed in a timely fashion or while being stabbed.

Instead, the wizard preforms 99% of the ritual and then stops at the last word/gesture/ingredient, left buzzing in the back of his mind until needed. The slot limit is intended to represent the character's capacity to simultaneously sustain multiple complex formulas accurately from memory. Think of it like a programmer: a script kiddy who's been coding for all of fifteen minutes often needs to go and check what a variable's value is before using it and forgets the exact number after he's started working on a different block, while an experienced programmer can maintain a whole list of global and local values along with their associated instance in their head without particular effort.

> Prevents the equivalent of no-firearm usage in the city.
Europoor detected.

Wouldn't that mean as soon as he's hit by a Dispel Magic he'd have to save for every one of his spells?
It would be like casting Contingency for each and every spell you have readied.
And in 3.5 Contingency is a 6th level spell.

>Why do martialfags always do this?

No they don't.

Is this one of those things where OP has a small pool of people he saw do this an concluded everyone does it?

And there are some GMs who refuse to let you relax for a moment without assassins jumping out of every cupboard and trash can. You get into at least fifteen unavoidable fights every in-game day, three of which are during sleep hours. The whole world wants you dead, enemies go out of their way to follow you, and any precautions you take will fail.
Sure, each single enemy is weak, but it gets boring to slog through random encounter after random encounter while an in-game day stretches to real-time months, especially if you're playing a caster and completely ran out of spells four sessions ago.
If you're in that kind of campaign, and you KNOW a surprise attack is coming because it ALWAYS happens, what kind of idiot willingly lets their guard down at all?

No, because Dispel only works on spells that have already been cast.

Yeah, but I addressed that already.
>It would be like casting Contingency for each and every spell you have readied.
How the hell is having a Fireball go off if someone says 'rainbow' any different than preparing a spell that can be cast at will using six seconds and a handwave?
D&D magic seriously confuses me from a non-mechanical standpoint.