Imperium Asunder

The Legions without the Emperor simply lack the authority or power to keep that many marines in check, and either carefully fraction their legions on purpose or watch helplessly as it inevitably happens.

Once the Emperor dies, everyone in the galaxy, on one side or the other, would be disillusioned with authority and Imperial structure. Schisms and mutinies are inevitable.

I think a bigger process is the strategic realignment. Alexios is pretty able to hold things together, but he, like his brothers, shifts to a theme system as a result of the defensive posture. Basically, chapters are formed to allow marines to autonomously hold territory without a need for a central supply and command system.
In Alexios' case, he figures he'll be there, so he makes chapters.
Xun just gives the Tzolkin patrol areas and local recruitment capacity while leaving the upper levels of the legion hierarchy intact, but Tzolkin were always meant to be semi autonomous.
I'm not sure what the others do, but they break up into autonomous units as a means of securing their space, that way a single bad battle can't destroy the entire legion. Instead an enemy must fight their way through a hundred chapters who know their sector well.
It's pretty much the strategic shift that the Byzantines did.

(So you may be asking why Xun doesn't do it. It's simple. He's not Byzantine, the cultural antecedents I'm working with are different so he acts like he's from the Qin dynasty or warring states.)

>Sky Serpents and Eyes
The Eyes probably fought alongside everyone at one point or another. Writing about fighting alongside them could be helpful from everyone.

I'm not particularly fond of the VL scheme either, but I'm trying to not shut anything down completely. It's just that two Legions with dark red and black doesn't work well.
As for using OU schemes, I completely agree. Those bastards took all the good ones for themselves, but we still have to try to do our own thing and be somewhat original.

Did your they participate in any noteworthy campaigns during the Great Crusade?
> The Scouring of the Medusa Cascade
> The First Battle of Orion
> The Conquering of Tannhauser Gate
What expeditionary fleets did they command or serve with?
> As one of the premier fleet commanders, he served with dozens of Expeditionary Fleets over the course of the Great Crusade. He made his home with the ‘Lucky’ 13th.
What major worlds did they have a hand in bringing to compliance?
> Deliverance, Talon, New Hope, Stormvald, Forgefane, and was the Lead Commander for the conquering of the Baal Sector.
What would a random Imperial Citizen know or think they know of them?
> hmm. Im not sure. In 30k timelines I guess the same if not less than most Primarchs. In 40k timelines, I think Xun uses him as a bit of propaganda so likely known there. As for the rest of the Crusader States I guess it would vary on how much they want to inform their citizens.

> If this is asking about the Legions themselves, they would see them as essentially the Navy. Because 90% of the time that's what they are. Its what they do. The are masters of Void combat and dominate the air. The public wouldn't be privy to their sneaky side. Its sneaky after all.

Anyone care to extrapolate for me what the States would allow their citizens to know?

What does the Emperor of Mankind, Beloved by All, think of them?
>Im sure he was happy with him for the most part, after the censuring of the Oathsworn and the Ironhearts he might have been frustrated with him, maybe even considering taking actions against his insubordination.

Again im not too sure about this one.

What do their direct subordinates think of them?
>He is a soldiers-soldier. He fights with his troops whenever he can, he doesn’t risk the lives of others for glory, and he always goes into bat for his own. He is well respected, and they seem him as one of their own for the most part. If anything they are too friendly with him, and their treatment towards him (and by extension the other Primarchs) is a matter of ill repute whenever it comes to the surface. But to their credit, they try and act professional when with outsiders, so as not to bring shame upon their leader.

How do your dudes relate to the mechanicum?
>Mostly through proxies. They maintain a few forge fleets, but due to their importance they rarely join the raiding forces. They have most their work done in Forge Space, the Vigil or the Jade Empire. Sending equipment to where it is best suited to be looked after. This makes them simultaneously very reliant on the support of others, and somewhat free from the shackles of any one faction.
Does your faction launch raids independently of a crusade? What are they looking for?
Do they raid?
>Yes, it has been known to occur.
What do they look for?
>They plunder the Dark Imperium, bringing back relics and resources to the East. They seek to extract a blood toll upon the traitors. They are looking for vengeance.
Does your faction have any noteworthy chapter relics?
>It does and it doesn’t. Its most noteworthy Relics are the Star Forts that rove the Dark Imperium, and the ships they use to traverse the chaotic wastelands without detection. As for weapons and such, they revere any tool used by a famous elder, and almost every linage within the Legion has some sort of ‘famous’ lost relic.

Which Primarch do you personally like the most?
> Rubinek
Which Primarch do you personally like the least?
> Gengrat
What would you change about the setting or a particular character or faction if you could?
> I still don’t quite ‘get’ the Silver Spears. But I think they are coming along in their own time, maybe bring everything in abit more inline with OU canon and such.

Can someone explain to me how and why the Warmaster got turned?
I'm assuming that, like the main 40kU, he wasn't the first to fall.

There is and isn't.

Which is why some do, notably the Scions, Angels, and Serpents.

And why some don't. Oathsworn, Hawks, Knights.

Pretty much, those with flexible leadership and/or small numbers manage to stay together. Those without fracture as disagreements and stagnation set in.

Uhm, I think he actually might be the first.

I can't remember honestly, Alexios might recall.

Then I await the Librarian's response

After Nikaea, when Oramar Elthiran and his Warp Raiders are on the run from the bloodhounds, he discovers the Interex, who tell him all about Chaos and how it's just the worst thing ever. He starts studying ancient sites on many xenos worlds and learns as much as he can about chaos. With his gift of farsight he sees a great many things, and determines that the Emperor of Man must achieve Apotheosis if the Chaos Gods are to be truly opposed. To ensure that happens, he concocts a plot.

Oramar manages to tip off some of the Warmaster's Eyes that he's on the Interex homeworld, and the Warmaster and the Bloodhounds come hunting. It's an elaborate trap and Oramar just as Keikaku's the Warmaster, slashing him with the Anathame blade. He fights Balthasar, who shatters the blade with his bare hands and crushes Oramar's fucking bones. The damage is done, however, and the taint of chaos from the blade warps the Warmaster's spirit to eternal darkness.

lemme find that writefaggotry I did the other day.

Tried making the Negators pop out a bit more.

I'm going to dump this in the thread for funsies then put it on the wiki. This is some time after the Interex incident and the initial corruption of the Warmaster. The wheels are in motion at this point.

>The Anathema
>Four years after the Edict of Nikaea
>Azrimuth, homeworld of Oramar Elthiran and the Warp Raiders.

Oramar stood on a great embankment of till and stone overlooking digsite V. Around him stretched salt flats for thousands of miles, with massive crystalline formations dotting the landscape at geometrically regular intervals. Digsite V was at the perfect midpoint of three of these formations, a deep terraced pit with walls reinforced by Imperial engineering. At the base of the pit was a strange, tetrahedral ziggurat of unknown xenos design. The ziggurat was constructed of warped bone, bleached by centuries of salt exposure. On each of its three surfaces were ninety nine triangular balconies, and on each one stood a tall guardian of the same warped bone. The guardians had no faces, and held lithe looking curved blades or tall pikes.

With Oramar were five of his closest brothers, called the Ṣaḥābat. Inducted into the Vth Legion from the tribe of Oramar's youth, they had been his brothers long before he met the Primarchs. Each of the Ṣaḥābat was master of a kabal, a school of study in the arts of the warp and the nature of reality. Each of them bore different weapons recovered from digsites just like this one. Ja'far wielded a clawed gauntlet with lobstered armor, Khalid a lance whose tip glowed like the sun, Mu'adh had two pistols which fired bladed disks, Jabal carried a wraithbone sword and a shimmering shield of light, Umar a fusion cannon. All of them wore shimmering pearlescent armor like that of Oramar's. The light of Azrimuth's ultraviolet star made their armor radiate with a thousand iridescent hues. They reflected similar colors in far deeper dimensions of reality as well. In the warp reflections of reality, their suits of armor shone like beacons in a sea of darkness. And, like beacons, the intent was to draw something's attention.

Oramar could feel his familiar, Sharsk, draw near to him. It was an inconstant thing, prone to long bouts of nonreality. At present, it chose to look like one of the salt lizards of Azrimuth, with crusted halite across its back. The creature was anything but a mundane lizard, however. It was a manifestation of thoughtform itself, a being of the warp. It was one of the djenni, the dark spirits of the void. Sharsk's body was formed not of matter, but ideas. Those ideas were what Oramar needed, for ideas are powerful things.

Sharsk sang in the warp, and Oramar listened. The song made promises to Oramar. Any wish he desired could be made into reality, any thoughtform could be created, if only he offered sustenance. Oramar sent a telepathic signal to his brother Mu'adh, and he stepped toward Sharsk. The false lizard rose its head, sniffing curiously. Mu'adh reached into his beltpouch and pulled out a red gem. It was perfectly round ellipse, and deep within its lustrous interiour there lingered a pulsating glow.

Oramar deftly touched the warp beast on the chin, guiding its mind, and consequentially its body, toward the stone. Once it caught the scent, however, it needed no guidance. Sharsk pounced upon Mu'adh, slobbering over him in its haste to reach the stone. Once it had the crystal in its jaws, it crunched down hard, and the whole digsite flashed with warp tremors. Oramar and his Ṣaḥābat reeled as their telepathic senses were assaulted by the screams of a thousand dying souls. A resonation came from the pyramid below, and Sharsk caught a new scent. The beast flowed down the embankment, not so much moving as inhabiting several places at once.

When it reached the Ziggurat, it crawled upward onto one of the statues like a spider. It sunk its jaws into the plain, swept face of a statue, and revealed that they were hollow. Within the statues were millions of gems like the one Mu'adh had discovered. The fel beast gorged itself on the souls of the longdead, growing from a lizard into a fat, asymmetric blob of concentrated ecstacy. Oramar and his brothers climbed down to the ziggurat with reverence.

Oramar examined the pyramid's mathematical structure, finding the appointed place. He flew upward on telekenetic wings, landing on a balcony in perfect golden mean proportions. He placed his finger on the surface of the pyramid, and a sigil appeared to him through his third eye. The wraithbone surface of the pyramid parted, strands pulling apart like sinew. Inside Oramar found a massive chamber. The walls at first seemed like mirrors, but Oramar quickly realized he was seeing outside the ziggurat. He could not see the wraithbone of the pyramid nor the statues, but he could see the soul stone gems. They floated like stars around him, and beyond them he saw the digsite and the towering salt spires. He looked around him, and he could see patterns emerge between floating red orbs and the stars in the sky above. He analyzed these patterns, and quickly determined they were a form of written language.

By the time Oramar had determined the structure of the language, three more Djenni were feasting at the bottom of the pyramid. There were a great many statues who lay below the horizon from Oramar's perspective. Oramar had determined these were the souls of commoners, lesser people who managed to earn salvation but had little real honor or worth. These low stars were not organized into words, but decorative geometric patterns which framed the piece above. While it hurt Oramar's aesthetic preferences for the creatures to damage the piece, none of the true signal was lost. It was worth destroying art, so long as you managed to extract meaning from it first.

The high statues at the top of the pyramid were great heroes, priests, and warriors, aranged into aspects like the ancient zodiac. From these aspects Oramar translated a recording which he estimated was older than Terra itself. He spoke in a voice which carried through his mind across the entire planet, "From Void comes the Annihilator! It is chaos, destruction, and death. It is the nothingness by which all things fall. Its entropic claws tear into reality, feeding on reality and leaving nothing." Oramar's words spread to warp raiders across the Azrimuth system, down to the lowest lexicographer, "From Matter comes the Anathema! It is order, construction, and life! It is the quanta which forms the universe. Its seething complexity grows patterns of inexorable truth."

Warp Raiders across the system knelt in reverence and scribes scrambled to record every morsel they could through the channeling librarians. In their minds, they saw the conflict of two axiomatic forces. The juxtaposition of flame and void built more and more nuanced constructions, spinning into stars and galaxies. They saw the creation of the universe as reality assertet itself further. "Order earns the early victory," comes the translation from Oramar, "but the Annihilator is a persistent foe, and its touch poisons irrevocably." They see life rise on a trillion worlds, growing into violent monsters and kingdoms of hate. They see explosions of life as empires rise, but inevitably fall. "The Anathema uses its energy to build, weakening itself, but the Annihilator consumes what it destroys, growing stronger. Chaos will always prevail against order, for Chaos is unburdened."

The audience of a thousand minds roared in outrage at the inevitable doom of all mankind. Oramar did not relent, continuing to translate, "But if the Anathema could be untethered from its burden, it could face Chaos with equal force. The force of order would be able to claim the slow victory of enthalpy. The great war must be fought not on earth, but in the heavens, in storms of thought and warplight." The message ended there, and Oramar's telepathic connection slowly faded. The walls grew dark, and soon lost their transparency. Oramar found himself in a plain white chamber of undecorated wraithbone. Light came from the bone itself, shining evenly over everything. Oramar heard a footstep behind him, and turned. Mu'adh stood on the precipice, holding another of the soul shards in his hand. With his other hand he removed his helmet. His skin was not Mu'adh's swarthy brown, but a deep black. His hair was not Mu'adh's shining gold, but the same light absorbing darkness. His eyes, however, burned. Like orbs of hot iron, they shone into the very core of Oramar's soul. "You..." said Oramar, "No... what have you done to Mu'adh, [[REDACTED]]?"

The man who was not Mu'adh stepped into the white room, and the wraithbone ceased to glow. In the absence of light, the white walls turned to black, and darkness overtook Oramar. A triangular beam of light from the doorway made him into a silouhette, reminding Oramar of the dark effigies he had tied to his sandskiffs in his youth. The Shadow spoke, "I have witnessed this farsight, brother. Like you, I see what it means."

Oramar's shock turned to calculation. "Yes..." said Oramar, and then they spoke in unison, "Our father must die."

Nice. I do wonder... Does the Warmaster want to destroy or defeat Chaos, or is he completely consumed by it?

This is the legion organisation talked about in the last thread. I agree these legions should stick to the same model mostly, with individual minor variations.

consumed. he wants the Imperium for himself.

It might be relevant to discuss legion sizes.

It might be, but would the numbers ultimately mean anything? What constitutes a legion to be "really big"? 500,000 marines? And is a 10,000 strong legion, "undermanned" or "on the brink of destruction"? These questions are frustratingly unanswerable in my opinion, unless we just arbitrarily make some shit up.

10,000 is smol toward the end of the Great Crusade, but technically full strength, since that's the point where it counts as an actual Legion. I imagine most would consider a Legion of just 10,000 to be impractically small, though.

The Iron Warriors were the largest Legion in canon with 180,000 Marines.

Nah dog. Thousand Sons, they only had 10,000.
It's kind of odd. Originally the Sons had 1000, but with the Heresy books they decided to add a 0 to the legions.

At the height of the crusade, :

>Most
Oathsworn: 200,000. Lots and lots and lots.

>Least
Iron Hearts, probably like 20,000. They're few but they're tough AF.

Size though isn't the point of the post. As the way the Legions are organised bigger legions just have more upper echelon groupings.

In this image, its chapter.

So the only difference between a legion of 20k and 200k is the amount of Chapters, and how fully manned they are.

The point is to realign the Legions we are making, as each one is more varied than the last - which while good for character - diverges quite heavily (too heavily imo) from the canon. Which is why I was prompted to action from the last thread.

I posted the picture to demonstrate that the OU legions had a similar make up even if the names for their groupings were different.

I agree with you. It's important to have unique and different Legions, but they are still military organisations and some uniformity is important.

I think most of the Legions we have do adhere to the ten chapter (Great Company, Choir, whatever, the name doesn't matter) structure, don't they?

I don't understand what you're talking about. What is your point?

>diverges quite heavily (too heavily imo) from the canon.
How do you mean? This is an alternate canon, it's divergent in basically every way.

How would you personally realign certain legions? Can you be more specific?

I mean essentially what has been put forward
and Im NOT saying it isn't happening already, what im saying we should investigate to see if people are wildly and/or randomly diverging for no point other than "I want more volkite squads"

>we should investigate to see if people are wildly and/or randomly diverging for no point other than "I want more volkite squads"

Investigate who? What? Some legions do have more volkite squads.

investigate might have been the wrong word.
What im saying is people should figure out what their organisation is (based off that picture) and then post either the whole thing, or post the changes/variations.

like was said here some of us think its important for it to be coherent and consistent among the legions for the most part.

Welp, Negators are basically

Chapters: Túatha.

Battalions: Battalions.

Companies: Warbands.

The term 'company' is still in use, but describes instead a small grouping of tightly-knit warriors - more an informal term than anything else. As the Great Crusade stretches on and Aodhán, in search of some breathing room, fights way ahead to the edge of the galaxy, the Legion's recruiting and organizations habits become much more relaxed, and we started to see Free Companies forming - essentially just groups of Marines that come together in varying numbers to function as semi-autonomous warrior lodges. This is the beginnings for how the Legion looks in the 41st Millennium, with hundreds, possibly thousands of random Free Companies doing their own thing all over the galaxy, barely keeping in contact with the main body of the Negators.

I agree as well, I think I posted the orbat for the Hawks previously. Ill try and find the image and post it again.

Where do your specialist troops fit in (Venerators was it?) Are they a Chapter level asset, Battalion or warband?

Essentially the higher up the more elite, but more rare and thus fewer.

The availability of specialist troops would depend on the size of the Legion, wouldn't it? Bigger chapters would mean more elites per chapter.

I guessing, since Crusade era chapters can number at over 5,000 Marines (Ultramarines had 250,000 dudes in the latter stages of the Crusade, so each chapter should have had roughly 25,000 able warriors), battalions and companies are also generally pretty big, and you'd see specialists like Venators all the way down to company level.

Uh, alternatively, I guess there could be just more companies in the larger battalions.

It that case Venators are probably a battalion asset. I think as the Legion structure sort of spiraled out of control you start to see more and more of them as Negators start just organizing their warbands and squads however they want.

Well typically the better / more important something is, the higher up its authorisation goes.

What I mean is say, you've got 10 dudes who can individually solo each another 10 dudes. And you have 2 levels of organisation: HQ and Company.

You can either break them up among the 10 companies (1 per company) or you could keep them all together but at HQ (1 grp of 10) and deploy them together for that extra oomph.

I see what you're saying, the idea of more numbers = more elites which is true, but its proportional. If you think of say terminators as the top 1% of a chapter, then it doesn't matter if the chapter is 1000 or 10000, while you might end up with more terminators total they are still spread across the same frontage in terms of ratio.

Am I making sense? Im not sure I am.

My point is, the inverse law of ninjas essentially. The more of something you have, the less awesome each individual can be, after all if they were THAT awesome, you couldn't have that many of them, as they would just be 'average'.

Ahhh.

I'd say it wouldn't be uncommon to see a squad of ten Venators in a warband. Much more common would be Reaver Tactical Squads, which are essentially a bunch of dudes getting super baked and jumping off a Storm Eagle at the enemy.

Yeah so I think what Raydon is getting at is that if they are fairly common, then they aren't necessarily all that "elite". As rather than excessive skill is required its more balls of steel and/or sufficient drugs.

Like those warboys out of Mad Max.

Yeah pretty much. Reavers are not super skilled, they're good at what they do because they're motherfucking Mehreens and Mehreens are good, but what differentiates them are huge nuts and special drugs.

Venators tend to be pretty damn skilled, or at least highly practiced, with their guns. There are more of them later on not because suddenly more skilled Marines appear, but because, due to organization going a little bit nuts, more Marines just focus on doing that to the detriment of other things.

I guess it should be noted that the specific drugs Reavers use are not waaagghhhh berserker drugs, at least not at the time of the Great Crusade. Later on, they have access to Deldar combat drugs, but at the time of the Crusade and the Heresy they're using something found on Aodhán's homeworld.

Rather than doing the berserker thing, it boosts their reflexes to precognitive levels, increases focus, and affords greater control over one's own musculature at the cost of being pretty damn taxing on the body/brain.

So later on, its not that they are veterans its that less people spend time being devastators/assaults/boarders etc and just move into that stream of profession?

Yeah?

Pretty much. Mechanically, they'd probably have an upgrade to represent true veteran Venators.

Oh by the by Raydon, how would you feel about Aodhan and Raydon proposing a new Storm Eagle pattern to Marcus? 10 Marine transport capacity, not as much gun as the Fire Raptor, but more than the Eagle?

Ah not Raydon, but I like the idea?

Well I don't see why not. I mean, its a role currently filled by the Stormraven(?) but I do think the Stormraven is ugly so sure.

So more troop room but also more weapons? I'd be a hard project for sure.

IIRC the Stormraven STC wasn't discovered until the late 41st Millennium. And yes, it is ugly as hell.

It'd be pretty funny to have these guys go through all the trouble of designing this... let's call it a Fire Eagle for now... and then a few hundred years after the Heresy someone in the East discovers the Stormraven STC.

>Spend decades getting fire eagles up and running, millions of man hours, billions of imperial credits, hundreds of lives lost in testing.
>few hundred years later Stormraven STC is found
>looks ugly as fuck
>Iregretnothing.jpg

Thanks bruh.

I was thinking less guns than the Fire Raptor, but more guns than the Storm Eagle. Transport capacity of ten (ten more than the Fire Raptor's capacity of zero, ten less than the Storm Eagle's capacity of twenty). A compromise between the two meant to deliver small, hard-hitting teams while putting down a hail of covering fire.

Maybe its side guns would be much smaller weapons that don't require as large munitions? Heavy bolters instead of autocannons? Hurricane bolters? I'm pretty sure assault cannons take up way less room than either.

>2nd Crusade
>Raydon and Aodhan do battle
>plasma sparks fly and the earth shakes as their weapons meet
>they lock blades, each seeking an opening in the other's stance
>none are close enough to hear, but those Astartes to bear witness swear that words are traded between the two
>"Now, I know we have our differences and we've both made mistakes, but we agree that the Fire Eagle was still a good idea, right?"

STORM EAGLES CAN TAKE 20?

Thought it was 10. Fair dinkem, in that case yes. Yes indeed.

That is exactly what the Hawks would use by default, entirely removing Storm Eagles.

How about:
> Avenger Bolt Cannon
> Rocket Pods under the wing (or several missiles)
> 10 Man Transport capacity.
> Possibly (?) a manned independent turret on top, with either twin linked assault cannons OR a Storm Eagle eqv rocket pods pair.

So its less than the Fire Raptor, which also has the 2 twin linked autocannons.

OR Maybe just make it smaller... FASTER, or add heavier weapons. Lascannons, bigger more explody missiles.

>"For your treason ill never forgive you... for the Fire Eagle... ill never forget you"

Okay okay.

>Avenger Bolt Cannon
>Rocket Pods (can upgrade to Lascannons for X) under each wing
> 2x front facing twinlinked autocannons
OR
> Missile Launchers on top ala Storm Eagle.

>less firepower than fire raptor in the loss of its 2 independent turrets
>more firepower than storm eagle in gaining avenger bolt cannon.

I think it would look cooler with 2x twin autocannons ala the Thunderbolt.

Oathsworn had a shot ton dude. Like I think thwy were mentioned as having 500,000 between their primarch being a bio-god, super acceptance rate with implants, and just good old non-attrition tactics. Hell, even then he had a shit ton in secret on Luna no one new about waiting for the Warmaster to start some shit.

500,000 is a literal fuckton.
That's double the Ultramarines.

Do you mind compiling stuff into a wiki page? I'd like to read more about the Oathsworn, but there's no convenient way to do so.

I'd also like to add that Roboute was hailed as a logistical genius for having such a massive legion run smoothly.

IIRC 500,000 was an estimate off their maximum, mostly because they of the aforementioned acceptance rates of implants, and being gene-specialists.

Its also why the Warmaster calls them out as traitors and has loyalists attack them (to thin out both sides).

In modern times however they are tiny, having never been able to recoup their losses particularly well due to losing Luna.

It's just that a 500,000 big legion does neem seem 'realistically' possible.
Maybe in terms of acceptance and gene-seed, but nog logistically.

Its something we have never really discussed. I think you're right though. Gorrillaman was a loggy god and he never had to handle something like that. Faustus is by all accounts devoted purely to his gene study so if we are going to keep that as an upward projection, we should definitely make the downsides more apparent.

It would be a right mess. Either deployments would run very slowly and ineffeciently, or the Legion would have to split into loads of bureaucracy and layers of command, or the legion would have to be split into one two or more semi-autonomous forces.

Part of it is that the Oathsworn are disorganized. They just keep making more and Faustus doesn't particularly keep an eye on anything. Heck, at that scale there probably have been more than a few renegade war bands. When people tell Faustus to get his sons in order, he usually responds with something about his research.
I think that adds some decent plausibility that the Oathsworn are going rogue.

It's been put up in more detail elsewhere, but I'd been thinking that Xun reorganized the legion pretty heavily.
Things are now base 20, with notional 20 man squads for rleverything, which can be broken down into two 10 man groups or 4 5 man groups. As many transports as possible. Even when broken down into combat squads, the segments are meant to support eachother.
There's 20 squads in a company and 13 companies in a Tzolkin chapter.
(It's based off Mayan calendrics.)
The composition varies pretty heavily depending on the Tzolkin, but ideally every Tzolkin can do everything, but have some sort of specialty that need not be unique in the legion.
Xun is a big fan of having diverse parts that synergize and if there is anything that he is the best at among the primarchs, it's logistics.

Anyways, he tries to ensure that everyone has a transport, though in practice, it may be 6 squads sharing a stormbird.
Reason for this is because he's always trying to out flank and disorganize his opponent, achieve a local superiority, and then keep up the pressure, which he does through speed, mobility, and infiltration.

That's why he loves Volkites, they're great when you hop out of your rhino and are outnumbered, you thin the enemy ranks, keep them at bay until the landraider or stormeagle with a Despoiler squad comes in. The Sky Serpents are very aggressive, in your face fighters, with ranged artillery serving only to cover the advance shoot and scoot style or to take out a critical target via orbital Lance strike or the like.

I think the reason he could do it was because all the fleets either had to handle themselves or were attached to other legions. Another big thing mentioned was that yo the wider Imperium, they WERE the Legiiones Astartes. So many of them were present, and their skills in medicine so valuable diplomatically, they probably were present on a shit ton of the smaller non-war fleets. Just like their apothecary detachments, they just had so many to spare it wasn't an issue.

Joe Schmoe would find out about the Imperium, and this giant of a war god not only appears carrying the Imperial standard, saying he is one of legion who will protect or crush you depending on your choices, but also cures thousands of plagues and saves your daughters life with the knowledge he brings. All you have to do is pay taxes, accept the truth, join the Emperor in helping even more people, and give some of your best sons to the legion. And hell, given how good their gene stuff was, those sons probably were accepted. This way every world would think of them first, their legion grows exponentially.

A pretty good argument for the Warmaster, whp notes how many worlds revere (true or not) the Oarhsworn and their massive numbers. Hell, when the censoring began a number of worlds with closer ties might even have rebelled to protect the oathsworn, possibly pushed along by the warmaster's agents. In the end, this only cements the warmaster's case. They're the balanced legion who are too well liked and too big, even if Faustus is a lonely gene autist on Luna

>somewhere, deep beneath the catacombs of Ryza, there lies an ancient Fire Eagle, its every surface heaped with dust
>few would ever wake such a relic, let alone step inside, or swipe the dust aside to note the 01 emblazoned upon its side - the first of its kind
>fewer still would know to look under the left wing, to find the line of text scratched into the ceramite in Low Gothic
>"Three brave men, friends forever, were once here."
>"If you wish to know their names, they are Marcus, Aodhán, and Raydon."

Also, dat sounds good. Maybe different patterns would switch between the missile launchers and the autocannons? Thoth Pattern, Horus pattern?

I personally think they should have 300,000 Astartes in the line of duty, working under several high commanders to take the strain of lordship off Faustus. Then there are his other projects hidden away in secret places - Thunder Warrior replicas, etc.

The Oathsworn are an Apothecary Legion? This is new to me.
That's why I'd really like it if their wiki page was made/updated.

>transports for all + unique organisation
I like that youre trying to do something unique...
but I foresee a bit of a problem here.
In order to allow a force to work in groups of 20 divided into 2x10 or 4x5 that would mean that each group of 20 would have 2xr rhinos AND 4 x razorbacks. or just 4x rhinos I guess.

When you start putting birds in the air
>1 stormbird per 60
you only add to the complexity. Because of those 60 dudes you now have
12 unused rhinos/razorbacks sitting somewhere gathering dust. ya dig?

Like you gotta realise that no matter how you slice the cake that's a lot of stuff you are having built, and then not using. I mean, it goes the next step too.
niggas gotta be trained on them
they gotta stay fuelled up
they gotta get transported around with everything
they gotta be inspected and maintained
they gotta have weapons made for them and dem dare weapons gotta have ammunitions.

Assuming a finite supply of anything(!) used in the production, then that's stuff you are STEALING from someone else who needs it. Ya dig?

Like, don't be selfish. niggas dying out there man.

I think that could also lead them into an Astral Claws situation where they hold back on tithes for local projects. They lose sight of the imperium, which also doesn't help their case.

This also means that there are some specialist companies in many Tzolkin, things that don't really seem Sky Serpent-ish, like artillery forces, but the idea is to have dudes who focus on it on hand as opposed to giving every company a few whirlwinds.
A demi-Tzolkin may share the same cruiser, but organizationally, Xun is giving the specialists bigger support cadres.

Whoops, misunderstanding. I meant that 6 squads would share a Stormbird and have no rhinos. I figured that 1 rhino for every 10 marines was unreasonable, so I was trying to have them share a ride. The idea was that every marine in a combat zone has a transport they can use, and assigned transport. So basically, no footslogging. Ideally anyways. But sometimes it still happens because there aren't enough vehicles for everyone to ride around in.

Nigga what? That's always been their thing. That's like their core thing, before being xbox huge in numbers and gettingg fucked up in the heresy so hard in makes the Lamenters feel pity

I've only been around for two threads and, again, they don't have a wiki page.

I feel like posting the Scions timeline again to make sure it isn't contradicted by newer stuff. I should probably also put something in about the Ash Bearers, but they resurface outside of the Vigil and I'm not sure very many people know their origins.

Whoops.
pastebin.com/Fc5gbfv6

Remember, kids:

Winners don't do drugs. oh wait lol we totally won, do drugs

So, your standard Negators warband will look something like this:

1st Paragon -- Tactical Squad -- Tactical Squad -- Venator Team

2nd Paragon -- Tactical Squad -- Reaver Tactical Squad -- Assault Squad

3rd Paragon -- Tactical Squad -- Reaver Tactical Squad -- Devastator Squad

Then you've got transports, gunships, etc. Negators will typically use flyer transport because they like to redeploy quickly.

Question: What does your faction think of the legend of the Tyrant Star? Do they see it as anything more than ramblings of the madmen?

I'm entirely sure that the Scions could not give less of a shit about some minor offshoot of the traitors on the far side of Dark Imperial space. They have bigger fish to fry, like the black crusades and the occasional Eldar invasion.

The Ash Bearers, on the other hand, believe that Komus is a rival to Nyadra'zatha and seek the star's destruction. There can be only one true Eternal Sovereign, and the throne has been claimed by the Burning One.

black hole sun, won't you come...

Stuttering, cold and damp
Steal the warm wind tired friend
Times are gone for honest men
And sometimes far too long for snakes

Quite interesting. They would quickly become sworn enemies, as Black Suns would defend their territory and secrets no matter the cost.
It shall. It is foretold. Yet it only comes when the Herald returns. Until then, it wanders, visits some, and prepares those it shines upon for the new age where all have been returned.

Well, it seems to be time to bump the thread. Might as well post some more Calixian legend that may or may not interest you but most certainly affects the Black Suns.

The Seven Devils of Dread Calyx.
Beings of dark power, the devils haunt the Calixis sector, some as savage predatory beasts, some walking amidst the cold stars and others worshipped as fickle gods by those who fell inside their domains.
It is said that the devils are connected by threads of fate, and if all were brought forth at once, a key would be turned that would extinguish the stars themselves.

The devils are known only by vaguely descriptive names, but the following list has entities and/or descriptions of what beings are suspected to be the devils in the 40kverse, Asunderverse may have entirely different beings or even modified legends.
>The Voice of the Flame
Suspected to be the Daemon Balphomael, lord of the dark fire.
>The Dweller in the Depths
The sightless gaze, autochthonic entity, nature unknown.
The False Prince
Tychak Crowfather, spiteful, indigenous deity of the Ashleen.
>The Treader in the Dust
Radiant King, legendary avatar of madness.
>The Eater of the Dead
Mord'dagan, supernatural beast of legend, godhead of the Saynay cannibal cult
>The Empty Hunger
Astral entity/aetheric residue of extinct xenoform, attributed cause of lethal psychic phenomena.
The Night Traveller
Nature unknown. Also known as the kin-slayer, one that returns from where none has before and whose predicted coming will herald the End of Days.

It was upon the world of Cornell V that the Ash Bearers first spread the flames of the Burning One to the Calixis Sector, and it was there that they first encountered the Black Suns warband. A night world, Cornell V was seen by the Ash Bearers as a world deserving of the eternal light of Nyadra'zatha. Knowing that the world was home to an enclave of the Black Suns warband, the leader of the Ash Bearers expedition, Apocryphus, sent a missionary squad to convert the Black Suns. When they returned at half strength, reporting of dark sorceries and supernatural shadows, Apocryphus decided that the Black Suns would be exterminated.

This is why people should just stick to the normal diagram. Or make minor alterations.

You can easily keep the same formation with this gimmicky 20 of 20 idea. You literally just hapf the amount of squads.

Like just try to draw out your idea as a diagram and youll see how rediculous this will turn out.I dont know if anyone saved their info.

After the burning of their holdings on Cornell V, the Black Suns began moving their artefacts and written knowledge to Scintilla from their remaining holdings, and prepared defence of their territory: They placed fleets above largely colonized worlds and regiments of Traitor Guard were assigned to nearly every habitable world, while they placed satellites above dead and abandoned worlds: They intended to strike back whenever and wherever their chosen territory was threatened. Theirs was the plan of attrition, of weathering the storm until the attackers would move on.
Yet the damage was already done: What files the Ash Bearers could salvage from the burning libraries of Cornell V spoke of Komus, the last star. Knowledge of the star that had thus far been kept secret, including theories of the truth behind it. Theories that would only fuel the burning hatred the Ash Bearers had begun to harbour.

Im gonna try and make up an Orbat for the sky serpents if its cool with you.
Ill post it when done and you can add in things ive forgotten, move around things ive misplaced etc.

Go crazy with it. But I do have to ask, a what? I know it's a typo, but a what?

Am i the only one who doesn't think force org charts are interesting at all?

No.

They're not massively interesting.

I guess it's good to think about how your Legion is set up, what things are common on company/battalion/chapter level, etc.

An order of battle (OrBat)

Like this

What is this, a legion for ants?

I for one find them very interesting. But its part of my job so i have a strong bias.

But on another level, its structure and coherency which i find important in writing fictions. Its one of the reasons i like magic systems like brandon sandersons over say jk rowlings.