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I believe you're thinking of Anakin from the prequels

If every character in the series jobs to them, they're a sue.

Pic better not be related

www.ensignsue.com

A capable, independent woman who Veeky Forums neckbeards don't like and feel intimidated by.

As much as I dislike Anakin as a character, no, he really doesn't fit. For one, we were told he was going to be powerful--being the chosen one that shall 'bring balance to the force' kinda comes with that whole package--and secondly, besides Padme and Qui Gon everyone is suspicious of him and don't really trust him, or are like Palpatine and Jar Jar (who we all know is the true sigh lord) using him.

He still won one of the most dangerous sports in the galaxy when he was nine.

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He wan *A* race on a backwater planet, and he did so by using the precognitive powers of The Force.
Now, if he was "just that good" and did it without cheating with The Force, or if he did it consistently and was a beloved galaxy-renown podracing champion by age 9, then yeah, the label would be more deserving.

A Mary Sue is a character that both has the plot focus on them, and does not struggle.

My only point is its kind of ridiculous people here are so damn critical of Rey when she's no more skilled or accomplished than Luke and Anakin.

tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=49303

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>she's no more skilled or accomplished than Luke and Anakin

Luke is a bumbling imbecile in the first two movies and it's only until he masters his training that he begins to gain some semblance of competence.

Rey, meanwhile, can instantly pilot the Millennium Falcon better than even Han, is instantly able to use the Jedi Mind Trick before she even knows what the Jedi Mind Trick *is*, and is instantly able to swordfight like a pro despite having no training in it. Luke stuggled to block the shots of a training drone. Rey defeats a swordfighter who was trained by Luke himself on her first attempt at even using a sword.

As for Anakin, there's nobody here who isn't critical of the prequels. We all saw Plinkett's reviews; we can all tell you in vivid detail why the prequels suck. That doesn't excuse Abrams' new movie, especially when he had a blank slate to work with.

But but but the Lamenters are the least marysueish marines in Warhams

+ Get fucked up by Mechanicus experiments
+ Lose the Badab War
+ Horrendous losses all the time
+ If they win, it's always moot

Yes user, most nerd shit are older than the internet, who would have said!

>Unrealistically selfless

Mary Sue is also increasingly used to mean "Character who has traits that I find irritating or think are over-used." This is also invalid because it ignores context. Some of these traits that get a character declared a Mary Sue are extremely arbitrary. Such as declaring Rey a Sue because she uses a staff.

There's more to characterization than an arbitrary checklist.

Disney have two movies to fuck up her character into being utterly twisted! Don't crash and burn ALL your hopes until they're all down!

Thats only one of the symptoms, not nearly enough.

All my hopes dies the day they announced that J.J. was gonna direct the movies. That man is a shit director and he hasn't made a single good movie.

He only did the one bruh, the next two have different directors.

Other than the Falcon, which yeah is kind of BS, there's definite hints of "mysterious past" all over Rey - she can't remember shit, you never see the parents that tell her to wait for them, and there's the whole lightsabre vision thing.

If she's actually had no training then I'll be very surprised - my personal guess is that she had some sort of mental block put on her to hide her past from her and others - a long-term mind trick to make her less visible to someone hunting down all the apprentices

with some luck those wont do a redo of the OT
id like to see luck tring but failing to be obi wan, a bit of a mutual grow of rey as a jedi and luke as a master

Well so far Kylo's actor has mentioned that next film has a darker tone, similar to how the Empire Strikes Back was darker than a New Hope.

I'm honestly perfectly fine with the new trilogy being similar to the original. I think its a great way to bring in a new generation of fans, while also giving the old generation something new, but still familiar. I fucking loved Force Awakens because it was so similar to A New Hope.

And then we can get straight up new shit in all the spinoff movies they are making.

clarifin' i like OT, but i say that they shouldnt do copy with diferent characters

This. A character who follows the same everyone else follows and wins isn't a Mary Sue. Mary Sue is someone playing Dungeons the Dragoning or Maid while everyone else is trying to play Dark Heresy.

Of course, not being a Mary Sue doesn't mean the character isn't a drippy pile of garbage.

>Multiple characters fall in love with them
>unrealistically courageous/selfless
>living the authors fantasy

Wow, its like every anime ever

Except you're wrong and so is that guy. A mary Sue is a character that enters a story and takes over everything, suddenly the plot revolves around them, all the established characters love the sue etc etc.

What you're describing is sort of the modern definition of a Sue I guess, but not the original.

See Ensign Mary Sue showed up on the ship, everyone loved her, she solved all the problems, got everything done, and was the youngest blah blah blah

Drizzt Do'Urden by definition is a mary sue, at least after the first few books once all of Faerun starts to love him. He's amazing at everything. Has a special pet. etc

I don't think anyone that's really considering it has issue with her being capable (though I had issue watching Finn be so incapable); more that she's better than the old guard from the original trilogy were and while we can extrapolate reasons, they don't really do her abilities justice.

Rey picks up the force faster than Luke (without any real guidance), schools Kylo after damselling long enough to just know what he's doing & the best way to counter it, knows more about the Millenium Falcon immediately on setting foot inside than Han or Chewie ... she just always fails torwards better resolving any problem set before her.

Anakin wasn't any better, but IIRC his actions relied on knowledge/ability already demonstrated.

>knows more about the Millenium Falcon immediately on setting foot inside than Han or Chewie
I've seen many people mention the Falcon... She was decent at flying it, but I felt like that was more because she was very familiar with the environmental hazards on Jakku. What am I missing?

>knows more about the Millenium Falcon immediately on setting foot inside than Han or Chewie
This was the only thing they really explained in a way that made sense. She mentions on Jakku she's been put to work shoving parts into the Falcon to try and get it working, and that she's pretty sure one of them is going to fuck something up. Then when that part does fuck up she already knows what it is while Han and Chewie haven't even set foot on the Falcon in years.

Other than that though, I'd say you're correct. Rey's whole issue is that basically everything she does winds up being for her own good, even when she screws up and nearly gets Finn killed on Han's junker.

>Ensign Mary Sue showed up on the ship, everyone loved her, she solved all the problems, got everything done, and was the youngest blah blah blah
So literally Wesly?

If he was so good why did he need three tries to join the Academy?

That's true of the other three main characters in TFA though. Finn is stastistically the most accurate character in a Star Wars movie, he never misses a shot throughout the entire movie, Poe is a monster pilot who's feats are easily on par if not greater than the wankiest Wedge EU stories, and Kylo Ren's force powers are hithero unknown and extremely potent. You can chalk all of this up to JJ Abrams-as RLM observed in his Star Trek(2009) review, he loves to "supercharge" characters and make them larger than life. Spock's half human, sometimes I'm emotional nature was taken into TURBO ANGST, Sulu's occasional sword fighting became KATANA MASTER, Kirk went to MEGA MAVERICK DOESN'T PLAY BY THE RULES etc etc. Abrams mixed around character archetypes in a clever remix for the Star Wars characters, but this more complex writing in character makes their outsized abilities stand out even more. You don't see Finn spraying inaccurate supressive fire, Poe's only downfall was getting interrogated by the much more powerful Kylo Ren, and Rey doesen't meaningfully struggle with harnessing new force abilities. And since she's the main character this turbocharged nature is much more visible than the supporting cast.

You understand those are all examples of playing by a different set of rules, right?

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Beautiful

Kill it with a flaming dick made of nuclear ore!

>You don't see Finn spraying inaccurate supressive fire
IIRC, storm troopers were actually decent shots when they weren't aiming at a main character/shooting through smoke in a movie.

A character I don't like.

At the core, it's really the author's power fantasy, to use a buzzword. The Mary Sue/Gary Stu tends to be
-absolutely perfect
-fawned over by every character, save maybe one or two (who befome antagonistic)
-tends to be story, lore, or world-breaking in their existence
-gorgeous/handsome
-have a "humorous/cute" flaw, like stuttering when talking, but only to their(the author's)favorite person, or being "clumsy" (ie tripping into their favorite person's arms)
They derail a story or setting to center on them, probably trivialize the roles of people around them, and the like

Okay so, I've been curious
I heard this was basically a clone of "A New Hope" and that they had a Resistance
Why? Was there a civil war going on? If not, why were they there? Did the galactic republic or whatever the rebel alliance set up get smeared early on/prior to the movie?

Why do people still defend Episode 7?
Watched it twice and don't really care for a third time. At least the prequels have some rewatch value.

But...she is.

No, Wesley screws up plenty often and has realistic character flaws after Gene Roddenberry finally died. I also don't recall him ever being mentioned as the youngest anything. To my knowledge the youngest canonical human Starfleet academy graduate is Chekov.

>at least after the first few books once all of Faerun starts to love him

Does that ever happen? All of Faerûn, I mean, not just the parts that people have been to? Even if it does I feel it's worth pointing out that it's taken literally decades of his life to get to that point and he's needed to save a lot of people's lives and fight a number of demons and so on.

If a character is actually *earning* people liking him then I don't think it should count - it's only when people instantly like him that problems arise.

I will admit the last Drizzt book I read was Sea of Swords, however.

>Luke is a bumbling imbecile in the first two movies
He destroyed Deathstar and was on of best rebellion pilots, so no he wasn't bumbling idiot. He was competent but not proficient in force.

>able to swordfight like a pro despite having no training in it
>10 level warrior that uses axe picks sword and fights with it nobody gives shit.
>Capable warrior pick lasersword and everybody goes apeshit.
Rey and Finn were trained to fight in melee, and were fighting about wounded enemy. Why should the suddenly loose they ability?
Cause jedi magic forbids them form equipping lasersword?
In SW while rare non force user can fight withl melee weapons with force user and win.

Mind trick and falcon don't have explanation.

>knows more about the Millenium Falcon immediately on setting foot inside

She'd been repairing the thing for years on Jakku for...that guy, whoever owned it, forgot his name. It wasn't her first time inside of it; there's nothing on-screen to suggest such, and the novelization explicitly dispels the notion.

She also *doesn't* really seem to know more about it; Han usually is shown to think up the same things at the same time, he just doesn't talk as fast. And even still I doubt Rey could pull off the hyperspace drop that Han did.

The thing is that in Episode IV, piloting is the ONLY thing Luke is shown to be actually good at. While you're right that he's not a bumbling idiot, he is consistently outclassed by everyone around him until he steps into the X-wing cockpit. But he was already previously established as a skilled pilot in various ways before that - the T-16 in his garage, equaling Han in shooting down TIE/ln fighters, commenting that he can shoot wamp rats, and being outright called one of the best bush pilots in the Outer Rim by Biggs.

But they also made Luke a squadron leader on the Death Star assault at the end of the first movie when he had no x-wing experience and knowing him for like half an hour.

Star Wars has always been like this.

Thanks I was looking for that pic.
These Rey White Knights really bother me for some reason. I don't care if you like her but don't pretend she isn't a textbook Mary Sue. It's like the word was designed especially for her and you'd laugh everyone off the table if they brought a character like her to your game.

Mind Trick was set up when Benny-boy fucked up trying to interrogate her and let her into his head instead.

He's also action hero levels of competent in a running laser fight despite never having used a laser before.

He destroyed de death start because literally everybody else acted as human shield for him, he only had to flight in straight line and drop the bombs, which, lucky him, had been practicing his whole life with a civilian version of the T-65, the T-16 Skyhooper back in tatooine shooting womp rats. Meanwhile nowhere is explained how Rey is able to pilot a heavily modified fucking old as fuck cargo ship like a fucking pro.

She also knows how to fix it and improve it...because reasons.

Also her super speeder bike, as stated by the nobels and visual enciclopedia, was built by her and is far beyond better than anything in the entire system, able to even do stuff no other speeder can, like fucking athmospheric flight.

Also2, everybody loves her a first sight, worst case Leia, who, instead of hugging poor Chewei who lost a friend, she goes and hugs that completely stranger, Rey, instead.

Worst case of Mary Sueism in years.

A miserable pile of secrets

>he only had to flight in straight line and drop the bombs

Except everyone complained about how that shot was basically impossible. Even Red Leader, a thirty year combat veteran who before Prequel retcons actually knew Anakin personally, fucked up that shot.

Luke only made it because he used the Force, and he had been exposed to it just as long as Rey.

>Also her super speeder bike, as stated by the nobels and visual enciclopedia, was built by her and is far beyond better than anything in the entire system, able to even do stuff no other speeder can, like fucking athmospheric flight.

Provide sources and page numbers.

>worst case Leia, who, instead of hugging poor Chewei who lost a friend, she goes and hugs that completely stranger, Rey, instead.

Even the writers acknowledged this is a fuck up and had no idea what they were doing with that scene.

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Kay, I'll admit that atmospheric flight thing is pretty dumb. But considering we never actually see it in action and it's never even implied in the movies, I'd take it with a grain of salt. As I do with everything in the Star Wars EU, both Legends and nu-Canon.

These books are written by third parties, so they're basically licensed fan fiction.

He destroyed the Death Star by using the force (having to be guided by post-mortem Obi-Wan to do so), and the run was flying in a straight line while everyone around him died so he could get that far. Even then he still had to get bailed out by Han Solo to not get blown up by Vader.

>no x-wing experience

He was training to be a rebel pilot long before the events of the movie even started, and was capable of making the exact shot they needed to blow up the Death Star. This is explicitly stated.

>She also knows how to fix it and improve it...because reasons.
She is a mechanic if this was FATE, scavenger/mechanic or shit like this could be her core aspect. So she knows how to repair/construct shit and worked on Falcon so she knows what could break down. Just as I know my car better than it's previous user.

Rad piloting was bad scene it would be better if Rey made sure that Falcon flies and Finn would shoot down TIE Fighters

Sure, it's strong, but not "best far beyond better than anything in the entire system" - it's just an airspeeder/bike combo, rather than a pure bike, which really isn't a stretch when you look at the damn thing - it's so much bigger than most of the bikes

Also like 85% sure she's taking after granddaddy Vader in her mechanical aptitude, but that's just me

>Rey
>worked on Falcon

His "training" was being a hick crop duster who'd never even seen a military-grade starfighter, much less sit behind the controls of one.

Him being capable of making that "exact shot" was just him boasting about how he could kill dingos with his bi-plane.

Once again, his own Wing Commander fucked up that shot.

Fuck no, movies should be self contained, you shouldn't need other movies to understand what the fuck is going on and why the character is able to tell fuck you to suspension disbelief.

The movie explicitly states she was present for every modification that junkyard alien installed on it.

All problems with Rey could of been fixed with a few words.

She knows how to fix and repair shit because she is a scavenger who spends all day exploring and either fixing or selling shit.

She can fight and shoot because she is a hobo scavenger living by hobo laws.

She can fly well because she is a huge ship fangirl, explores broken ships, fixes broken parts and built a super supped up speeder that she zips around in.

The force shit...bit of a far stretch but she was shown to be super into that force shit so when she got the inclination she could do it she probably relied on stories she heard and went from there. Her getting into Ben's head is because Ben is a total emo scrublord bitch.

Everybody liking her...yeah I got nothing. Most Mary-Sue thing about her desu.

Finn is a better overall character and the true hero. He is scared the ENTIRE movie and he still tries to do his best to help. True bravery

>Finn is a better overall character and the true hero
I went to the theatre thinking he'd be the worst character due muh diversity quota, him and Poe ended being based as fuck

>Her getting into Ben's head is because Ben is a total emo scrublord bitch

I would think that Ren has very weak passive force defenses because he hasn't had to fight a force-wielding opponent since he was a kid. That plus the wound in his side plus his general emotional conflict which was explored throughout his parts of the movie is what makes it a non-issue.

I'd like to see him get manhandled by Luke after he learns how he killed Han.

Same here. I thought he was going to be a shitty gimmicky support character but I ended up liking him more than anyone else

>Squadron Leader

No, they didn't. Everyone else was fucking dead, so he took over.

Because everyone else had FUCKING DIED.

It was AFTER they let him make Rogue Squadron.

The emotional conflict is very important to the fight. Force users benefit greatly from focus and Ben was definitely not focused. He just killed his dad, got shot in the gut and was punked by some homeless girl. He was very flustered.

Meanwhile, Rey was very focused. Fuck this emo Disney Princess bitch and all his space /pol/ buddies.

This, from all the starfighters and bombers only him and Wedge returned alive, he became the leader, because from the two only survivors who would you chose? the one who got the job done or the one who bailed out?

I recommend this:

Silly user, don't you know that the mere fact that they are allowed to be sympathetic means that they must immediately be called a Mary Sue and declared extremely badly written, to the point that liking them must by extension mean you are a horrible person that probably steals candy from doggos and burns down orphanages?

(I am OP, btw)

((Remember: For those we cherish, we die in glory.))

Lukes Starting skills.(A new Hope)

- Driving basic (can drive and operate farm equipment and basic transports)
- Blaster basic (Can shoot a womprat at a reasonable distance)
- Languages one. (Can speak english more slowly when dealing with particularly dense jawas)
-Athletics basic. (Can use a rope swing)

Reys Starting skills.(The force awakens)

- Melee Expert. (Can beat multiple larger stronger opponents.)
- Piloting Expert.(Can pilot or control any form of transport in the galaxy and can pull of manouvers putting her in the upper percentile of pilots)
- Engineering Expert(Can repair and even improve any technology she is exposed to)
-Languages Expert (Who needs a protocol droid when you can speak all the languages in the galaxy)
-Charm expert (Everything apart the cartoon villian wants to hug her)
-Shooting Experienced (Can shoot reliably and accurately at various ranges with various weapons)
-Force Use Experienced (Capable of using her force powers while already in melee without any action cost)

>-Shooting Experienced
She only OSK'd 7 Stormtroopers with headshots every time.

I'm not wholey disagreeing with you, Rey is too skilled, but Rey having some more useful skills than Luke can make some sense when you remember one is a bratty, pissant farm boy who lives with his aunt and uncle with a guardian angel Jedi living nearby and the other is a scavenger living alone in the desert

You forgot Luke's
Pilot Experienced and Whiner Expert

Based on my (very vague) knowledge, the Rebellion won, then tried to be the Old Republic as much as possible- including not having a standing military worth a shit. Something about having a powerful centralized armed force being too similar to Imperial policy. The Resistance is being bankrolled by the New Republic, but otherwise is operating independently.

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Any hit on a Stormtrooper is a OHK.

Call the Editors, we have another one.

Youre 100% correct but dont expect many to agree with you. Its hard to ignore howeveryone seems to trust some orphan with so little context.

Wrong thread.

Rey is far worse. Anakin failed multiple times, had training & still had those better.

>no more skilled or accomplished than Luke and Anakin
Luke had to get his ass saved many times in A New Hope. Obi-Wan saved Luke upon meeting him, at the cantena, Luke even wanted to use the targeting computer rather than the Force before he hear Obi-Wan's voice.

>It's like the word was designed especially for her
Nah, that goes to Alice from the Resident Evil movies who is THE Mary Sue to end all Mary Sue's

Fucking this.

>nigger can't even remember red leader