With Kaladesh being fully spoiled its time to take a look at how the decks losing a lot of their cards in rotation will adapt to the new standard. The Bant decks will be getting a lot of talk so lets focus on the little ebrother.
Mono White Humans With ORI AND DTK out were are losing Dragon Hunter , Kytheon Hero of Akros, Knight of the White Orchid and tech choice Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit.
We stil keep Thalia’s lietnet an a strong core of boosts so the human tribal would stay but other aspects may stretch.
Mono W human gets its power from cards being 1. Cheap 2. White 3. Humans With Ori and Dtk out we have less chances to get all of the above. Dwarves are the white race of Kaladesh meaning we’ll have to push outside one color if we want to keep the human growth
This brings me to Red and its cheap creatures like Inventor’s Aprentice and Speedway Fanatic. Coupled with Red’s artifact focus, adding in vehicles may act a great bit of colorless glue in our now 2 color build.
This is my test concept Creatures 4 Inventor’s Apprentice 4 Expedidtion Envoy 4 Thraben Inspector 4 Town Gossipmonger 4 Smuggler’s Copter 4 Hanweir Miltia Captain 3 Speedway Fanatic 4 Thalia’s Lietehenet Spells 2 Gryffs Boon 1 Stritcher’s Graft 4 Decelration in Stone 4 Always Watching
Debating whether swapping stitchers graft out for Inventors goggles is worth it.
If we toss in 4 Toolcraft examaplar we are going off tribe but the artifact base may be enough to support it; and it’s cheap. Especially with Thraben. Thoughts?
Humans needs to splash G or R to remain competitive.
Noah Cooper
I literally just said that
Parker Johnson
>splash red >no Hanweir Garrison
ISHIGGY it's like you hate value user. You put in your list jank like Speedway Fanatic and yet you forget of good red cards.
Luis Rogers
>splash red for Speedway Fanatic >no vehicles what's wrong with you, user? put in some renegade trains at least, to up your artifact count and be big swingers.
Joshua Sanders
>diabolic tutor reprint Am I wrong for thinking black just got a lot better from this alone? Not to say that Dark Petition was bad, but it wasn't a straight tutor and needed that secondary effect to activate to actually feel worth it. Yeah Languish going away sucks, but there are alternatives to make do with.
Hunter Jackson
>but it wasn't a straight tutor What the fuck are you talking about? the effect is literally the same, just upshifted one mana for the spell mastery.
Eli Long
Diabolic Tutor has almost never seen play in standard, and it's not about to start now. The only reason Dark Petition was good was that it was effectively a tutor for 2, because tutoring for 4 or 5 is not worth it.
Cooper Murphy
I guess that did come out wrong. I had a long day and my brain is exhausted, user.
What I mean is that it's not "search, add, shuffle", but more "search, add, shuffle, then do some other shit" with an additional (1).It's not completely straight, just bent a little bit. Water still flows but at an angle.
You have a point there. I just figured that because you can cast it earlier it would generally be better. Sure you're effectively casting Petition for two, but five lands had to be tapped and you're only getting an all-black rebate from it. Am I just retarded for not really seeing the worth in that?
Parker Clark
Workshopping a W/R Aggro deck for standard. What the hell do I cut? Creatures: (22) 4 Inventor's Apprentice 4 Toolshaper Paradigm 4 Thraben Inspector 4 Speedway Fanatic 2 Depala, Pilot Exemplar 4 Veteran Motorist Artifacts (18) 4 Bomat Courtier 4 Renegade Freighter 4 Smuggler's Copter 4 Fleetwheel Cruiser 2 Skysovereign, Consul Flagship Spells (12) 4 Always Watching 4 Start Your Engines 4 Built To Last Lands (24) 2 Inventors' Fair 4 Inspiring Vantage 10 Mountain 8 Plains
Ian King
Standard is shit and you are shit at evaluating cards
petitioning to rename 'bomat courier' as 'bonnet courier'. because I misread it as that, and I find the idea of it being a hat delivery system hilarious.
Sebastian Young
Literally just gonna run izzet machine gun with Lashnu hellions and that's it
Shit set imo
Elijah Bell
>adding cretures to a deck based on casting lots of noncreature spells seems shit imo
Nolan Sanders
I'll take a few of the red spells to replace the things that are rotating but they aren't anything special
Hellion is just a cool 4 damage to face so I don't see how it can be bad in a burn style deck
Owen Hall
because you don't understand the power of cute. filigree familiar, workshop assistant, eager construct, highspire artisan.
Liam Lee
It doesn't trigger your Thermo-Alchemists, it doesn't take ice off your Things, and it doesn't discount your Bedlam Revelers once it's in the graveyard.
Jace Green
Jeskai and Esper control lists seem ...actually viable. Wtf?!
Isaiah Baker
I don't run the thing bedlam version
Juan Moore
I'd throw in the Smuggler's Copter, it's super cheap and gives you a lot of reach since it's flying.
Control in general looks like it's going to be strong this standard - none of the aggro lists seem to pan out. I'm expecting Fevered Visions to still be really big, Jeskai Control is great.
Julian Martin
I was running a playset of those, I just forgot to put it in. Other changes: Thraben Inspector 2 of, Speedway Fanatic 3 of.
Austin Roberts
Even without Kytheon and Dragon Hunter Humans will surge now that Languish and other fast removal is gone
Jonathan Walker
>I was running a playset of those, I just forgot to put it in. Other changes: Thraben Inspector 2 of, Speedway Fanatic 3 of.
Okay cool, I was also gonna say that your math only added up to 55 cards in that other post.
I'd add in some basic removal, Fiery Temper or Incendiary Flow should be fine. Gives you again more ways to burn out an opponent at low life.
As a sideboard, I'd recommend Thalia or Consul's Power (that one W enchantment that makes enemy creatures come in tapped) versus Aggro. Only 2 I can think of at the moment.
Ayden Young
You put in Fragmentize against people siding in Consul's Power, Consul's Power against the mirror, and maybe Incendiary Sabotage agiainst tokens, if the Cryptolith Rite meme turns real. Welding Sparks seems like it could be a good tool to kill big blockers. Maybe a one of Avacyn/the white gearhulk in the sideboard? I'm not too good at stuff like that.
Jackson Hernandez
Fragmentize is an auto 2 of at least in sideboards, definitely agreed. Maybe even more depending on how crazy it gets.
Everything else definitely worth testing too, especially Avacyn.
Aiden Lee
Well I'm definitely including Fragmentize, considering there's at least two people at my LGS committed to U/W Flicker with Panharmonicon using Reflector Mage, Eldrazi Displacer, and that new 5 drop that draws cards and gains life.
David Campbell
My friend is pestering me for the Emrakuls I pulled and never use because I can't play fnm. What are the chances of them seeing play?
Elijah Nelson
Pretty large. They're standard staples right now because the mindslaver effect combined with a huge body is really strong.
Josiah Mitchell
That's what I thought. I guess I should just hold onto them for now?
Levi Perry
>Standard General
Really? I thought Veeky Forums thinks Standard is icky.
Adrian Fisher
>Le Veeky Forums sowing circle
I hate retards who buy into borgfag shit like this. you are the worst
Grayson Scott
Trying to get back into standard with Kaladesh rotating in. How's aggro been performing in the current standard?
Pic related is what I am working on right now. Everyone's going nuts over vehicles and I just want to style everyone out in goggles.
Cooper Sanders
Suggestions on best artifacts to use for B/R burn or B/R creature lite control? Need Unlicensed Disintegration to deal 3 on turn 3, and Dynavolt tower is also a 3 drop.
Should I use the courier 1 cmc with haste?
Landon Bennett
Land base needs work. Do you have anything against Needle spires? Fast lands?
Leo Sanchez
What about Kazuls toll collector? As far as equipment goes what about Slayers plate, captains claws, stone forge masterwork
James Ramirez
Just money restrictions. If I end up getting them I'll put them in but right now I;m just testing with a shoddy land base
Toll collector might be good, especially if running things like plate. PRoblem with plate is that it doesn't synergize well with non humans and overall is kind of big and clunky. Claws are great though, I keep experimenting with and without them. I do want them in though since they are a neato card. Stoneforge masterwork also is dipping in and out of testing because the deck is double tribal of allies and artificers.
Joseph Harris
That quote is so shitty. They should have gone with the moment where Lili try to girl-talk her out of the street, just before they go to Kaladesh.
Noah Morris
>Really? I thought Veeky Forums thinks Standard is icky.
Normally standard is shit, but powerful standards are always fun. See: INN/RTR, SOM/INN , RAV/TSP
If you're not using it, trade it. Its value is only going to go down because it doesn't have any Eternal play
Metalworker's Puzzleknot. One of the best artifacts in the set IMO, it's basically an artifact version of Think Twice
Dominic Sanchez
I always like dumb stuff that doesn't work, so here's my first draft at a module deck:
Aether Hub x4 Inventor’s Fair x2 Ruins of Oran-Rief x3 Spirebluff Canal x4 Evolving Wilds x2 Mountain x3 Island x4
I'm not sure if Bomat Courier deserves to be here, but I wanted another 1 drop, and he can be a cheap body to kickstart the Modulation/maybe stash a couple cards if I run out of gas. Top deck him with an empty/useless hand and he's a cantrip.
Era of Innovation combos with Whirler Virtuoso, for a slimpler version of the Modules.
Benjamin Long
This deck is testing really well so far, can drop an Ulamog on turn 4 fairly easily. I just feel like there are a couple of cards that could be switched for something more optimized, just can't think of what they should be. A lot of the lands seem unnecessary. Debating cutting Mirrorpool as it hasn't been playing well. Also kind of want to jam red in there, Kozilek's Return and Combustible Gearhulk.
Aether Hub 4x Lumbering Falls 3x Sanctum of Ugin 3x Forest 5x Island 7x Mirrorpool 2x
World Breaker 2x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger 4x Thriving Turtle 4x Aethersquall Ancient 2x
Jace, Unraveler of Secrets 2x Nissa, Vital Force 2x
Attune with Aether 4x Part the Waterveil 4x
Asher Martin
how can you drop ulmog on turn 4?
Daniel Reed
Turn 1 Attune with Aether or Thriving Turtle Energy = 2 Turn 2 Puzzleknot E = 4 or 5 Turn 3 another Puzzleknot or break the Puzzleknot in play E = 6-8 Turn 4 play Aetherworks Marvel, tap and use 6 energy and hopefully get Ulamog in top 6 cards E = 0-2
Nathaniel Morris
For the life of me I can't find a "metalworker's puzzleknot"
Julian Gomez
Found it, actually named "Metalspinner's Puzzleknot", and thanks for reminding me that existed, just started brewing my esper control deck and that should fit really well.
David Parker
the deck looks pretty shitty desu.
Any aggro can destroy you pretty fast and you will be screwed if you dont get ulamog or anything good after playing marvel's ability.
Elijah Hall
yeah just retooled it adding a couple of Kozilek's Returns and Combustible Gearhulks. I think you're underestimating how quickly the deck generates energy. With the Aetherworks in play, either of the Puzzleknots get you up to 6 energy for 5 total mana so it's very feasible to activate it on turn 4 and then again on 5. It's definitely going to be the new CoCo type card I think.
Elijah Thomas
what did you change on the list?
Alexander Wright
this is super bad, cards like dec in stone and always watching are a must, and bushwhacker and weapons trainer are just meh.
If there was a "when an equipment comes into play draw a card" card existed then your list would be hot fire, but unfortunately no.
Luis Miller
4 Aether Hub 4 Woodweaver's Puzzleknot 3 Glassblower's Puzzleknot 4 Aetherworks Marvel 2 Nissa, Vital Force 4 Part the Waterveil 2 World Breaker 4 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger 2 Lumbering Falls 6 Forest 8 Island 3 Thriving Turtle 4 Attune with Aether 2 Combustible Gearhulk 2 Kozilek's Return 3 Mountain 3 Saheeli Rai
idk why Cockatrice doesn't sort by type, annoying
Matthew Lewis
The reality is every deck needs to either be emerge or beat kozileks return now so the format is going be unbelievably narrow. If you thought the field played mostly coco wait till 50% of the decks are temurge.
Standard is about to suck hard.
Jordan Gonzalez
I've been building G/W humans for a while before rotation, and I can say that it plays fairly consistently, and able to outrace most decks, and even thermothing crumples when faced with even a single cast of Heron's Grace Champion.
The only bad matchup I've found is against Eldrazi ramping, which I've yet to find a decent sideboard for.
Bentley Hill
i like collecting cards and making decks but i literally have nobody to play with, what do bros
Ethan Hall
Are you me? Anyway swallow your autism and go to your LGS, and hope the people there aren't a bunch of insufferable cunts like the ones in mine.
Austin Fisher
kill yourself fagget
still looks pretty horrible.
Colton Diaz
How good is Kozilek Return with 2/3 Creatures running in T2?
Nathaniel Gutierrez
4x Contingency Plan 4x Crush of Tentacles 1x Cryptolith Rite 4x Evolving Wilds 9x Forest 4x Grapple with the Past 7x Island 4x Jaddi Offshoot 2x Kiora, Master of the Depths 4x Lumbering Falls 4x Nissa, Voice of Zendikar 3x Primal Druid 3x Pulse of Murasa 3x Splendid Reclamation 4x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
meme rites is in there for meme-magic, haven't lost a single game with this duck
Matthew Baker
>kill yourself fagget that's very helpful user
Hunter Powell
Just cutting the attribution would have helped.
Jaxson Evans
Thoughts on upgrading the R/W weapons trainer meme deck? Sigarda's blessing? Toolcraft Exemplar maybe? Gideon?
Jaxon Gomez
>go to your LGS ehhh i can try i guess, hope they play casual and not are tryhard faggots
Blake Evans
Fragmentize would be a good tool to put in the sideboard.
Hunter Walker
Kytheon is a massive loss i think. Also how high on the curve do you want to go. Gisela is at 4 and Avacyn is at 5, and I think both are pretty reasonable in this deck
Cameron Gomez
Toolcraft Exemplar is a straight improvement over Expedition Envoy in most cases, but since you're running a deck with a lot of Ally synergy I would suggest avoiding it.
Nicholas Gray
there are usually people at any LGS that are cool with playing casual formats like EDH, but most people don't wanna play janky shitty brewstandard. If you have a pauper scene in your area thats pretty fun to fool around with.
Nolan Green
What do I do with these cards for standard?
An entire werewolf deck Almost all vampires except those from Zendikar Most of the madness-cards
All of the Zendikar Eldrazi except the titans
2 World Breakers
Eldritch evolution That deathtouch mana-dork 2 Ishkanah
2 Gideons 2 Sorin 2 Gisela+Bruna 2 Dec in Stone 2 Thalia
Jund delerium, something RG, BW control or something else?
Gabriel Diaz
been thinking of taking the GB emrakul shell, making it red and adding in the red gearhulk, new chandra, and k. return when kaladesh ships
what do you guys think?
Angel Kelly
what is your jund delirium deck look like
this is the poster right below you
Nicholas Sullivan
I really hate those creature with 2/3 stats. They me kozilek return pretty useless and there is no strog -x/-x board effect. The new demon is too expensive and most of the time you will be dead before you estabilize.
Grayson Morales
But user if creatures didn't have T>P, they might die in combat!
Alexander Edwards
Does anyone have a thermo visions list I could base off of?
Zachary Rogers
>Back at college >Skip the first few fnms because I have things going on, or I just don't feel like it >Go to the place where fnm happens last night >It went out of business Feels fucking bad, man. The closest place is like an hour or so away now.
Luke Nelson
No, I don't have a delerium deck yet, I'm wondering if I should use those cards I have to build what kind of deck.
This art is so fucking garbage it hurts I wanna buy 100 of these so I can burn them all
Adam Scott
The art is objectively better than the flavor text.
Charles Reed
That's not saying anything.
Ayden Bell
>brewing my esper control deck
take a look plz sir
Adrian Williams
Yeah but I don't think wizards really wants another puresteel paladin, which fucking sucks. Been testing with the smuggler copter so I might include those because they are okay at filtering. Same thing with evolving wilds.
I might even just end up turning it back into equipment allies instead of equipment artificers and run aviaries to allies back to my hand to trigger rally.
Were there any draw a card when an ally enters the field cards?
4x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar 3x Nissa, Voice of Zendikar 1x Tamiyo, Field Researcher 1x Sorin, Grim Nemesis 1x Chandra, Flamecaller (to be replaced with Torch)
4x Oath of Nissa 4x Secure the Wastes 4x Dromoka's Command (Collective Effort) 2x Declaration in Stone 1x Quarantine Field
Mason Sanders
What's the best way to take out Ulamog or Emrakul?
Kevin Gomez
I'm taking a bit of a different approach myself. Of course still using a few of the gearhulks, but I'm running a bit of an energy subtheme ending in that flier that bounces the board with loodrifter and some other etb value guys.
Caleb Reed
>Ula Exile effects >Emrakul Non-instant exile effects >both Summary Dismissal, Infinite Obliteration (Lost Legacy post-rotation), just kill them before they cast them.
Wyatt Torres
Stasis Snare
No hexproof, and little enchantment hate, still at instant speed
Or should I look into building a red deck instead?
Aiden Rodriguez
Thermo Visions is getting stronger if you want to do UR. White will get weaker with cards like White Orchid, flip Kytheon, and Tithing angel leaving but I'd say with Cat Gearhulk, the current white escalate cards, and the not-vampire-night-hawk getting printed the color will be fine. Good enough for white weenies? No. Expect WU tempo with things like spell queller.
Luke Collins
>stronger
Debatable. It's getting some more toys but no straight upgrades or direct replacement for cards it loses (mostly fiery impulse).
I do look forward to figuring out what works and what doesn't, though.-
Kevin Butler
>lost cards All it is really losing is Impulse and Jayce. Impulse can be replaced with galvanic or the energy-based lightening strike. Jayce can be replaced with the new RU walker, stormchaser mages, or main boarded lightening weavers. I think the deck is over all getting more powerful by getting another turn 3 clock that helps your draw step.
