WFRP 2

How do you get a new group through the first few sessions of a campaign?

With a group new to the system, and the overall lethality of WFRP, it seems really hard to get a new group into an actual campaign without the first half-dozen sessions just being a series of TPKs, even with fate points. I mean, sure it's a survivable game if you know the system and what all your combat options are and all the possible modifiers to stack up, but until the players get their heads around that it's pretty deadly stuff. I ran my group through a one-shot of the campaign from the back of the core rulebook (Through the Drakwald) - there's two combats in that scenario, the first one mutilated them through crits, the second one was a TPK even with Fate points.

Does anyone have any tips for easing newbies into the game without either a) requiring them to learn the system through-and-through before playing, or b) running half a dozen one-shots before starting the "real" campaign?

Also WFRP General I guess

system is kill

delete thread

The official adventures tend to throw some ridiculous bullshit at you, my advice would be to ease them into it by designing your own adventures which you tailor more to their experience with the system.

just played it one time, and that one time wanted to try combat out, it was brutal, so i guess that you shouldn't focus on combat at first

No.

D&D 3.5 is technically kill too, we still talk about that. Just cause it's out of print doesn't mean it's invalid.

To be fair, the two combats that killed my group in the intro adventure were four mutants and then four wolves. Nothing too crazy. It just seems like for combat to be workable it either needs to be so trivial that your players stomp it, or your players need to know the system inside-out. Otherwise it's too swingy, and it doesn't need to swing far in WFRP to result in character death.

Once my players know the system better they'll be able to actually play combat tactically and compensate, but until then I don't want to run basically combatless scenarios for fear of a TPK.

Is adding NPCs a solution? Give them allies to rely on in combat, trained fighters who can give tips etc?

What careers were they playing as, I vaguely recall playing through that adventure with a tilean mercenary and he was murdering the mutants pretty handily.

Random rolls gave them student, burgher and tradesman. Nobody got anything combat-y.

We're running another on monday and I'd like it to last longer than three hours. This time around we've got a servant, a coachman, a valet and an elf apprentice wizard. So at least the coachman's got a blunderbuss...

> I mean, sure it's a survivable game if you know the system and what all your combat options
This isn't D&D son
Warhammer isn't gamey enough, it doesn't give you much space for "playing" through encounters. Yes, knowing your options helps a bit, and picking strong professions at the start (if allowed by GM instead of rolling or picking professions from limited list of comparable power level) helps considerably, BUT all in all, players will always be at GM and dice's mercy.

Though, if you don't throw overtly powerful monsters at the characters, the lethality shouldn't be so bad. The combat sure is swingy, but in fight with random thugs and not orcs or beastmen a balanced party of starters should be able to manage itself without casualities if DM isn't using dick tactics.

Moreover, again this isn't D&D. So COMBAT should not be even close to be such prominent part of the game as in your average dungeon crawl. one-two fights per game session is more than enough especially that combat isn't exactly fast in this game contrary to many common opinions, and cleary IS NOT with the starter party which will miss 75% of their attacks, and so will opponents tiered for them

By "knowing the system and your combat options" I meant getting to grips with the system of situational modifiers instead of d&d style everything being pre-calculated.

I'd strongly recommend against random careers to start off with, some of the careers really are useless for everything.

>Moreover, again this isn't D&D. So COMBAT should not be even close to be such prominent part of the game as in your average dungeon crawl. one-two fights per game session is more than enough
Which is what a lot of the premade adventures do wrong, that and populating the world entirely with npcs on their 5th/6th career. I keep expecting to see a pig farmer with a runefang in his possession the way the premade ones overpower everyone.

>rolling for careers
do people actually do this?

I was talking about this too.
Those +/-10, usually either barred with downsides or requiring specific conditions, can give you a slight edge, but it isn't going to sway the tides of an encounter in most cases.

How often do you allow your PCs to roll for careers? Iiirc, we had each 3 rolls (reroll any double results) and could pick one career out of those.

If "normies" fight armed men or wolves, yeah... the results are not surprising. What did you expect?

Yes. But after after OP's disheartening experiences, I would recommend, he doesn't go best of 3, he goes best of 5. OP, let your players roll 4 more times for career each. And then let them choose again, dammit.

it CAN work, but you need to have a really modular story in mind. if you end up with dregs of society like gravedigger and beggar you're essentially fucked.

as a player, it is particularly satisfying if you live past that stage and see your character grow into a hero.

Do you ever, though? If you rolled a low-tier career your entire game essentially becomes "let's not die in the next hour" which is pretty bleak even by WFRP standards.

I've done okay starting with a peasant. Though admittedly I got lucky with that character and rolled very high stats.

use brains, not brawns

>student, burgher and tradesman.
Found yer problem.

Get the expansions, make everybody a Bretonnian Knight-Errant.

>Does anyone have any tips for easing newbies into the game without either a) requiring them to learn the system through-and-through before playing

There's not too many rules players need to survive most low level WFRP encounters. Just make sure they always know these things.

1. Always have an off hand weapon. Because that gives you a free parry attempt.

There's no reason at all for a character to only be using a single weapon. All characters start with a 1 handed weapon and a dagger for free.

2. Use the Defensive Stance action liberally.

Applying a -20% WS to everyone trying to hit you in melee is absolutely worthwhile in the majority of cases. Especially when your PC is new and probably doesn't have multiple attacks or any armor.

Defensive Stance will reduce the vast majority of opponents down to only a 10-20% chance to hit and with average WS your PC will have a 30% chance of negating any attacks to DO hit.

3. Gang up on assholes in melee.

Any time the number of guys on your sides engaged in melee outnumbers the number of assholes on the other side, your entire group gets a WS bonus. Nobody should really be trying to stay out of the fight in WFRP unless their guts are hanging out of them. The outnumber rule is one of the reasons the rat catcher is such a good starting career.

4. Armor is super fucking good and you should get some post fucking haste.

Average beginning gold will allow anyone to buy a leather jerkin immediately and just higher than average will let you buy a leather jack that will protect both arms and your body. Considering that your arms and body will be taking 2/3rds of all hits you suffer, this is a very good investment.

With these 4 things, provided the GM is making reasonable encounters, the early game becomes much more survivable if the players aren't taking stupid risks.

And then once you start being able to afford better armor or can transition into better careers you become increasingly survivable.

he's right but the most important thing is to allow for better starting careers

I agree with this in theory, but if you stick with 3.5 you are kind of stupid. 5e is better and pathfinder is better if you want a d20 game in a similar vein.

The best warhammer fantasy game is actually 3e, but it is also dead.

>>if the players aren't taking stupid risks

Come on now, don't get his hopes up.

Ignore the random careers, let them choice who they want to be instead. Discuss with players their choices, how they want to play it, how they see themselves as a part of a group, suggest different choices if something doesnt fit your scenario or seems too op. Generally - communicate.

Fuck yeah I do

Best part of the fucking system

My party didn't have too much of a problem but then again we are known for having good rolls and Highwayman is fucking OP as shit.

Treat fights for life and death like fights for life and death. Players got to be clever and use everything they got to their advantage. If bad rolls get yeah then that's just how the chips fall. If the party is kind of small based on the encounters you have set up for them then tailor those encounters.

>pathfinder is better if you want a d20 game
The fixes PF make already had 3e houserules that were even better.

Agreed. I rolled a slayer once. Shit was so cash

If you can't make a decent character out of random roll you've no imagination and no business roleplaying

>but muh career is a wizard and I've got a poor Int

So place Rincewind, play a slightly dim man who wants to get better, use your fucking brain.

>no imagination and no business roleplaying

Chill out dude. Imagination is a learned skill just like everything else.

Slayers are fucking awesome. Combat beasts and you start with that sick-ass axe.