/STG/ Star Trek General

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I have mixed feelings about this

I think the whole point is that we know nothing about the tar monster. It has no reason to do what it does other than its a right bastard.

I'm not sure the Titans are even canon. Perhaps they were the preservers.

I think they claimed the creature was born of the negative emotions shed by those Titans.

I'd assume they were one of the many civilizations that existed in the Alpha and or Beta Quadrants long before the current age.

Maybe it was the Voth

In the Next Generation episode "The Wounded", I remember a Starfleet Admiral claim that the Federation couldn't afford a war with the Cardassian Union.

At that point, was the Union's military actually on a better war-footing than the Federation's was?

Also, could the Union have actually stopped the Klingon Invasion from reaching Cardassia on their own when Gowron launched his sneak attack?

The Union was still technologically inferior to the Federation. We see Macet shocked that the Federation can track their ships. We also see the bridge crew basically laugh off the initial attack by the Galor cruiser. However this may be due to the fact that the Enterprise was the most powerful ship in the fleet.

Regardless, this was just after the events of Best of Both Worlds. Starfleet was still reeling from the casualties they had suffered. So while the Federation likely wouldn't lose a war to Cardassia, they really didn't have the resources to spare on a large scale conflict.

As for the Cardassia holding off the Klingons. I think it became fairly apparent that the Klingons didn't even consider the Cardassian fleet a threat.

That raises the question, how old is the Galor class?

Is it a relatively recent design or is it to the Union what the Mirandas and Excelsiors are to the Federation or what the D7s and K'tingas are to the Klingon Empire?

While I don't see a Galor challenging a Galaxy or Vor'cha, it seems like it could easily handle a lot of what the Federation fields if most of their fleet is made up of the 2200 era refits.

It's supposed to have been a product of the late 2350s. Firepower wise she's about the equivalent of a New Orleans class ship.

>As for the Cardassia holding off the Klingons. I think it became fairly apparent that the Klingons didn't even consider the Cardassian fleet a threat.

Now was that really due to the Cardassian Guard having poor military prowess?

I know they don't discuss the conflict in detail, but it seems like the Klingons committed a sneak attack against a nation already in upheaval and weakened by the loss of it's primary Intelligence organization.

Yeah in the Previous wars and brushfire wars the Spoons manged to hold their own.

Do sessions recruit from these threads? Are starfleet roleplaying games as fun as DnD?

>go to social hub
>click on people
>read their bios
>if it's cringeworthy, don't do that
Pretty simple really.

My character would have a time refugee, someone whose original era was just before enterprise and just after the rise of human space cargo to get pick up by an early 23rd century craft and adjust to a starfleet world with spacefaring but pre starfleet values.

Never played any of the Star Trek RPGs, anyone have any experience? Mechanics, module ideas? What was your character?

Always thought it would be a fun idea to make players play/create "red shirt" characters and have them work their way up the ranks.

I figure the Cardassian War started off with Cardassians claiming worlds on the border and launching full-scale attacks on Federation patrols. Though their tech was still inferior, they were fully mobilized at the start and facing limited Starfleet resistance. Even as Starfleet stepped up to defend the border, the Cardassians were still able to make a bloody fight of it, and once the Cardassians started to lose ground they pushed for a cease-fire.

In the eventual treaty, the Cardassians got to keep the colonies they'd established during the war in exchange for other planets, effectively expanding their space while not having to face the Federation on full war footing.

tl;dr, my headcanon is that the Cardassians wanted colonies, not a drawn-out war. Tricky bastards.

Another question, how did the Klingons even reach Cardassian space when they don't even share a border?

And, assuming the Federation allowed the Klingons to pass through their space, why did the Federation have a problem with the Romulans doing the same for Dominion ships?

Supposedly there are parts of the Klingon Empire that stretch "under" Federation and up to Cardassian space. Similarly there are parts of Federation space that stretch "under" and "over" Klingon and Romulan space to reach the areas of the Federation on the far side of their space.

Remember that the galaxy, while disk shaped, is still hundreds of Lightyears deep. None of the borders are quite as simple as the maps make them out to be.

Or...you know....it COULD be that star trek writers don't give a shit.........it COULD be that.....
It really pisses me off that there are literally millions of spergs out there who care more for this shit than the people who are paid to get it 'right'.

We all know the writers don't give a shit. Half of Star Trek headcanon has to do with smoothing over the obvious mistakes so at least there's some rationale. Just look at the Temporal Cold War arc in STO. Most of its missions are making up excuses for dumb time travel shit that happens throughout the series and smoothing them over as intentional occurrences.

Enterprise's OP is slowly growing on me , most likely because I'VE GOT FAITH

I see the Klingon Empire is larger than I thought it was.

It varies from map to map. Same as the Federation and Cardassian Union. Generally the only constant is that the Romulan Empire is a green oval of hatred.

>The Patriarchy
>tfw feminists and sjws have them confined to a mere ninth of a sector by the 24th century

As one of the people posting a defense of the F-35 and comparing it to the Sovereign as the "latest and greatest" of what anybody has to offer...I hereby rescind my defense. They just grounded the entire F-35 fleet since they're having parts - like avionics probes and stabilators - fall off them during flight. Grounded for the fifth time. In two years.

>can't link the Washington Post article

Say what you will about the F-35 - the Sovereign never had fucking nacelles just fall off. If there's a valid "latest and greatest" comparison for the Sovereign, the F-35 clearly fails the "greatest" part of the comparison.

Sorry.

Currently military hardware just doesn't compare because almost everything that's easily comprehensible (rather than new fancy electronic warfare and networking capabilities) like tanks, planes and ships is filled with upgrades of 30+ year old hardware or anything newer that being boondoggle after boondoggle.

Starfleet however gets shit done when it comes to procurement of updates and replacement hardware, even if they relied upon excelsiors and mirandas and their derivatives to bulk out the force for decades.

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Yah, that sounds likely. Considering the size of Starfleet's fighting force before Wolf 359, and Starfleet's general attitude of "oh, a potential war? let's send a couple ships," it seems they generally half-assed the whole conflict, while the cardies were giving it everything they had.
I mean, Starfleet was sending mechanics (O'Brien) and astronomers (Janeway) on combat patrols (and not out of desperation - it's not like a third of the people on any particular ship aren't security/tactical or anything), while the Cardies were literally starving back home, despite having at least basic replicators, and several worlds and colonies.
Looking at the map in , I would say the Cardies noticed the Federation was a bunch of pansy faggots, and made a thrust on a bunch of planets, some of which happened to have Federation colonies. Starfleet sent a ship to a colony when attacked, as they tend to do, and never really acknowledged the war as a thing. However, once they learned about what was going on at Bajor, they couldn't just sit on it anymore because they are all about peace and love and not enslaving planets, so things amped up ever so slightly until the spoonheads backed down. But, the Federation seems to have the biggest pansies as negotiators, so they made a lot of consessions to the cardies, even though it was pretty one-sided. (The Federation expects Starfleet to do a lot of initial negotiating, apparently; if Jean-Luc"Retreat Or Surrender," "Raising Shields is Hostile, Not Prudent" Picard is one of the best, most effective diplomats they have, the civilian diplomats must be doormats.)

Although, getting Cardassia to not only stop the Bajoran Shoah, but leave the planet entirely, and allow a strong Starfleet presence there, was a major score for the Blue Team. Bajor must be one of the closest inhabited planets to Cardassia, so that's no small thing.

The F-35 is the Galaxy. The Sovie is the F-22.

We have seen Federation diplomats in action.
Three instances come to mind.

>Lwaxana Troi, who negotiated a race of people that never spoke with their mouths before and tried to sleep with everyone

>Sarek, who dumped his crippling mind disease on Picard so he could yell at ensigns about getting the slime tub temperature right so not to miff the aliens he was negotiating with on the Enterprise and has gone out of his way to shit all over his only successful son.

>Seth Mendoza, who negotiated for control of a "stable wormhole" that turned out to not be stable. His bidding offer was "you should give it to us for free"

Troi's mom: successful.
Sarek: kind of a dick, but successful.
MENDOZA!: bit shit really. Also was trying to bang Troi which is just as unambitious and lazy as his negotiating style.

So what's the Breen's deal? They don't seem to have clear characteristics beyond "sort of dicks to everyone."

Well my personal guess is that they're dicks because they were transplanted at some point in their history. If Weyoun is to be believed, they wear refrigeration suits even though their homeworld is a temperate paradise. My guess is that they used to live in an ice world, but giant dicks from space moved them against their will, maybe slave labor? And now they're bitter about it and take it out on everyone

Protip: The Breen are actually 5 different races working togeather, one of which has a pig like snout, another which needs constant sub zero temps...

they all wear the same uniforms as a cultural attempt to ensure no racial profiling among the 5 races

memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Breen

>Sarek, who dumped his crippling mind disease on Picard so he could yell at ensigns about getting the slime tub temperature right so not to miff the aliens he was negotiating with
I thought you were trying to convince us he was a bad diplomat.

They seem quite physically resilient.

You know, those guys getting paid to "get it right" should get real jobs rather than bilking governments to fund their astronomy hobby.

In the next century or two, humans will either be in the process of going extinct (worst case scenario) or have been reduced to agrarian societies that will never have the industrial base necessary to reach space again (best case scenario).

So, quit being mad, and enjoy the last days of technological hegemony.

I've met a lot of diplomats in the real world.

"Weird, egomaniacal assholes" describes most of them.

Gene would be disappointed in you, user.

Hes not wrong.

We need to get into space and off planet to get at the resources of the solar system, before we either run out the will to explore space or the resources and technical know how too.

>Bajoran Shoah

That's something that's bugged me. So the numbers we're given are 15 million in 50 years. Unless Bajor had the population of Canada, that's hardly a Shoah. 300,000 a year is maybe 2 Vietnam wars, or 3 Iraqi occupations, depending on how you count casualties.

Holocaust numbers? If you include Jews, Poles, Soviets, et al, you're looking at 3 million a year. Even if you just look at Jewish victims, it's still north of 1 million a year.

And that's when were talking about absolute numbers. If you're talking percentage of population? The occupation of Bajor probably wouldn't make the top 100 occupations by percent of population killed. It would have been totally out of character, but someone should have said "Wait, that's all? For the entire planet?" at some point.

>someone should have said "Wait, that's all? For the entire planet?" at some point.

And it could have had the easy rebuttal of governance by force, lack of freedoms and rights, that kind of thing. Because it;'s not just the body count that made the occupation a bad thing after all, just body count is an easy way to say things were bad.

I'm not saying it was a good thing, I just get annoyed a the lack of a sense of scale. The show wanted to portray the Cardassians as space Nazis, but in terms of what they actually describe they're significantly less brutal and bloodthirsty than any colonial power. The freaking Belgians did worse than Dukat ever dreamed of. It would have been interesting to explore that.

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Hey has anyone here tried the Kelvin Timeline Romulan warbird? How does it hold up in general and in late game?

I like the idea that their homeworld was naturally frigid, but they screwed it up with rampant global warming. Rather than go to the effort of trying to fix it they started wearing refrigeration suits.

>The Union was still technologically inferior to the Federation. We see Macet shocked that the Federation can track their ships. We also see the bridge crew basically laugh off the initial attack by the Galor cruiser. However this may be due to the fact that the Enterprise was the most powerful ship in the fleet.
It's not just the Enterprise and Defiant that completely outclass Cardassian ships. The Phoenix beat a Cardassian warship despite having its shields dropped by the prefix code.

I figure the reason Galors tend to travel in groups of two or three is because they know they can't compete in one-on-one fights.

>The freaking Belgians did worse than Dukat ever dreamed of.
Where do you get that idea from?

Maybe the Cardassians only went murder crazy in the last few years and the majority of those casualties were a result of the installation of Terok Nor

The Belgian Congo was pretty much one continuous war crime after another

Where did they get the design from, it's not bad

Reminder that the Kelvinprise design predates JJ "space confuses me" Abrams

That's not the Konnie. It looks similar, and the one in the movies maybe takes some design cues, but they're not the same.

There are some differences, yes. But you must admit, they are strikingly similar.

Thoughts on NuEnterprise-A?

Looks a lot more like the TOS connie

How about I post a version that isn't for ants?

It has some design similarities, but this one actually looks like it takes more design cues from TOS and ENT than the one they settled on for the Kelvin Timeline.

Still really hate the proportions. Pylons need to attach further back along the nacelles. I hate the way they curve inward, not completely sold on the new nacelle shapes, or the stardrive section, and the saucer looks really meh.

But, I'll be honest. I hate the Konnie, I can't stand 2009 or Into Darkness, so... take that with however much salt you require.

Any better?

For an old TOSfag like me? Slightly better. But here's one like even more.

I honestly wouldn't have been the slightest bit mad if Pegg had pushed for the original connie refit

I like this. It's a nice cross between the 2. A much more faithful modernisation of the Connie

Have another.

Like this one, then?

Here's an interesting one, from the spiel in the OP, I don't think jetfreak likes the idea very much.

Getting warmer, but I don't like the aft/ventral part of the stardrive section. Something about the shape of it feels wrong, and the deflector area protrudes a little forward for my tastes, reminds me (and not in a good way) of a type II phaser, actually.

What spiel? And who's jet freak?

I am also confused.

jetfreak-7.deviantart.com/

"You spend enough time with internet Star Trek forums/communities and one is guaranteed to get a lasting impression. The most vocal and hostile of Trekkies are in fact: disgruntled old males, with over-inflated opinions; who long for the glory days of a certain sci-fi franchise. Whether it is intentional or not, they constantly remind the younger generation that Star Trek in their time was truly special. In other words, its all fancy posturing and divisive fandom politics that thrives on hypocrisy and chest thumping.

So called "classics" can actually be interpreted in many different ways. The secret however, is to always keep an open mind. Continuity is at best a helpful guideline, not rigid dogma. Of course, don't tell that to the fanboys. Hence the endless Artistic License vs Canon debates that often exasperate Trek artists. Furthermore, Star Trek as an artform has so much conflicting restrictions and unwritten rules that it is easy to get confused on what is deemed "acceptable" and downright heresy. It is amusing to observe that the hardcores are always so defensive, (or easily offended) against the slightest change. And if they don't get their way, trust them to retreat to their ivory tower using nostalgia as a smoke screen. Is it a case of old hardcore Trekkie privilege? Perhaps.

But at the end of the day, words are just that, words. Talk is cheap, and no amount of vitriol induced, tersely worded condemnations will deter artists from what they do best. Oh sure, one may possess all the facts and details to the letter. But it takes a completely different skill and mindset to actually sit down and produce visual mediums. The main trick here is to harness that Trek knowledge without the useless negativity. Art is indeed not a democracy, but in my experience, it always helps to do your fact-checking."

Still better than Enterprise.

Hrm, perhaps I got the wrong impression when I said I thought he didn't like the idea.

I think it's canon that Galor class ships are designed to operate in groups of three. It's pretty typical for a lower-tech nation. And in what is also typical the high command then either grows complacent, overstretched, or both, and starts to deviate from its own doctrine and starts treating something that should be able to take on a higher-tech flagship in a group as if it's just as good as said flagship on its own.

Someone compared Cardassia to WWII Italy at some point, and I don't think it's far from the truth. They have a lot of similarities ranging from warfare to politics.

>U.S.S. Compensator

Does anyone have the description saved from a previous thread about how to make that monstrosity of practical use?

I think that was about the Excalibur.

Do you have it saved? I think it's fallen out of the archive. Or my Google-fu is weak as shit.

Either way I can't find it and wish that I had saved it because it would have made a fair good hub for a game of Traveller.

'Not being able to afford a war', when you're a peace-loving Federation citizen, even one of the insane admirals in Starfleet, doesn't mean 'they could beat us'.

America arguably hasn't been able to afford the war in Iraq. It arguably hasn't well-afforded the war in Vietnam.

It's about fighting a needless war, particularly after the Borg fiasco, the Romulans being all Romulany across the Neutral Zone, and the last war with the CU being a fucking disaster that did no one any good, even if it was never a matter of nearing defeat.

No, no, Medoza was the guy that got poisoned by the Ferengi, not the creepy used car salesman that did very well with Troi.

The people on the show that came up with those numbers clearly didn't think them through very well.

That, or Bajor was always REALLY sparsely occupied.

I favor the former.

His abysmal taste in women is instantly made up for with his calling out of Troi's hypocrisy.

>You use psychic powers to get an unfair advantage and that's bad
>So do you
>It's not bad when I do it

Bajor always had a low population, I mean christ, they still grow crops and raise animals for the majority of their food... and you ever notice that most bajorans are farmers of some kind.... its because they are also bad at it.

Bajorans are shit tier species lapping at the asshole of space aliens that continually forget they exist.

This. Their civilization predates humanity as a species.

Never invented a proper warp drive in hundreds of thousands of years.

It's quite good. I think it's the best full-carrier in the game, but don't quote me on that.
But it's not so good that selling it at this point isn't worth it. I'd sell it before it gets in the infinity box and then everyone and their mom can get it and it loses most of its value.

>The people on the show that came up with those numbers clearly didn't think them through very well.

No, they thought about it very well. In season 7 they mention how many Cardassians die in a few hours of Dominion bombardment, and it's 800 million of them. And that's only the civilians.

Earlier, when the Romulans and Cardassians try to murder the Founders, they vapourize the upper crust of an entire planet. Sisko poisons the atmosphere of an entire planet. DS9 is more willing to admit than other Trek that starships are stupidly powerful and can bend a planet over a barrel and do as they please.

So the explanation is simple: The Bajorans are bunch of fucking crybabies who considered everything that happened to them to somehow be more special than the same thing that happened to others. The Cardassians treated them roughly, but they needed the fuckers to actually work in the mines. Just murdering the lot of them would be stupid.

But that's the thing about the Bajorans. It's constantly made clear throughout the show that they have a very insular culture, and a very emotional one at that. So they simply exagerated the importance of what happened to them. By this time, with all their heroes and all their government officials having been significant in the resistance in some way, it's very integral to their identity as a people.

I'm from a country that was occupied during WWII and didn't catch a lot of hell, aside from a famine near the end that seems a lot like what the Cardassians would have done. So let me tell you, the hero worship of the resistance and the demonization of the occupying force is real. We're 70 years later now, and we're FINALLY stopping tugging our own dicks over the war.

Honestly, it's kind of weird how this goes over a lot of people's heads. Maybe you need that history to understand it. The shit Bajorans say seems very familiar to the kind of stuff I heard in school.

>So the explanation is simple: The Bajorans are bunch of fucking crybabies who considered everything that happened to them to somehow be more special than the same thing that happened to others. The Cardassians treated them roughly, but they needed the fuckers to actually work in the mines. Just murdering the lot of them would be stupid.
So as long as the death rates are kept low decades of slave labor really isn't that bad? That's your position?

Are you just purposefully misreading my entire post, just to act like a cunt? Fuck off.

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Don't forget the rape.

And the slave camp executions.

Those don't count. They weren't common enough for me to dismount this moral high horse.

You call the Bajorans cry babies because there were higher death rates elsewhere in the galaxy. Is that a misinterpretation of your post?

Hell, I partially agree with you, actually.

The Bajoran occupation actually being REALLY low-death-rate in terms of occupations isn't entirely implausible, particularly since the Cardassians weren't operating from a basis of long-standing racial hatred and animosity, revenge for past conflicts, a racial-superiority-justified genocide program, etc. They just wanted Bajor's resources.

All of them, pretty much.

They looked down on the Bajorans as a backwards people, which was a partial justification for the occupation ('we're uplifting them to a better way of life, after this little hiccup is out of the way'). But, at least until the Resistance really swung into full strength, they didn't ever view them as a threat.

The idea that they really just forced them into slave labor, but didn't actively work to get them killed, with death campaigns only starting up in the last years before the withdrawl, isn't a particularly implausible one.

And, Prophets know, the Bajorans can be a VERY difficult people, particularly with anything relating to the occupation.

Which was horrible!

But the numbers are pretty damn low for a holocaust comparison.

(Or the writers really didn't think through the numbers on the BAJORAN OCCUPATION, even if they were quite capable of truly horrifying numbers associated with later events. Hell, I seem to recall that the original numbers given for the Occupation, BY A BAJORAN (maybe even Kira), were much lower in the early seasons, then it got bumped up to 15 million later on, when they realized the original figure was way too low...and didn't think through just how low even 15 million over 60 years actually is.)

You're missing the point, and you're getting offended at the drop of a hat. If you want to cherrypick one sentence from that entire post -which included the admission that I'm speaking from personal experience, with pretty much the same exact thing happening to my own people- what do you expect me to say?

In short, yes. It is. I want to make a point about the way the Bajorans see themselves, and how it explains the discrepancy between the relatively low amount of deaths and them placing such an importance on it. And given that this isn't some safe space, no, I didn't weigh every last word in order to avoid someone getting their frilly panties in a bunch, you crybaby. Now argue the goddamn point instead of getting upset about semantics.