A store in Japan has funded a massive tournament to try out a new eternal format called "Frontier". This format involves cards from M15 onwards, and will essentially be a "Fixed" modern.
This thread is for Brews, discussions and theories. Will this catch on? Would you be willing to try it out as a new format?
Luke Lee
For those who are unaware, Frontier Legal sets at this point would be:
M15 Khans of Tarkir Fate Reforged Dragons of Tarkir Magic Origins Battle For Zendikar Oath of the Gatewatch Shadows Over Innistrad Eldritch Moon Kaladesh
Other things to note: >Allied fetch lands are legal. >Chord of Calling is legal. >Enemy fast lands have just been printed. >Battle lands are fetchable >Eldrazi are playable without Eye of Ugin/Eldrazi temple.
Ryan Rivera
Is Tcruise banned is the most important question
Christian Cook
Dead format
Samuel Bell
All this proves is in ten years they're going to have another eternal format, and the cycle cycles.
Alexander Gutierrez
>Without hesitation the search "beyond the time" "cruise of the treasure ship" has been banned or restricted in other formats I want to use four >its not banned Muh dick
Nathan Brooks
You mean >All this proves is that Wotc's reprint policy is unsustainable and is causing a fracturing in the playerbase
Gavin Flores
>it's another "Reddit brews a quickly solved DOA format" episode
Isaac Parker
I'm not really sure if it's the time already to start the format. I would wait with it till non-egypt.
Jack Campbell
Or "I don't want CoCo to leave standard but am too shit for modern"
Lucas Gonzalez
>Treasure Cruise isn't banned
GOAT FORMAT
Already it's better than Modern.
Evan Jenkins
T.Cruise without the delver decks to abuse it could be okay. DTT would also forever be a staple in control.
Not having any good 1 mana cantrips also helps their cases i feel. The fetchlands and Jace would be the only things that could really push them over the top. Plus with NWO i guess we can "count on WotC" not to fuck things up for us. The hope here is to have it be no banlist because everything from here on out will be fixed and able to be checked.
John Powell
iS bURN VIABLE IN THIS FORMAT?
Adam Cooper
no
Austin Allen
Garbage format
Cameron Rivera
Planeswalkers in the format:
Liliana of the Dark Realms Ajani Steadfast Chandra, Pyromaster Jace, the Living Guildpact Nissa, Worldwaker Garruk, Apex Predator
Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker Sorin, Solemn Visitor Ugin, the Spirit Dragon Narset Transcendent Sarkhan Unbroken
Kytheon, Hero of Akros Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Liliana, Heretical Healer Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh Nissa, Vastwood Seer
Gideon, Ally of Zendikar Kiora, Master of the Depths Ob Nixilis Reignited Chandra, Flamcaller Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
Sorin, Grim Nemesis Nahiri, the Harbinger Jace, Unraveller of Secrets Arlinn Kord Tamiyo, Field Researcher Liliana, the Last Hope
Saheeli Rai Dovin Baan Chandra, Torch of Defiance Nissa, Vital Force
Josiah Diaz
It's the first format without burn. That instantly makes it better than modern (and unbanned ruse cruise). Now a literal retard won't win a tournament anymore.
Samuel Gray
Atarka Red senpai.
Become Immense + Temur Battle Rage wins games
Isaac Ramirez
sounds like trash to be honest
William Lewis
Burn, less so, but that doesn't mean Atarka red won't be a thing.
Plus M15 had Lightning Strike, which is one up on standard.
Christopher Young
Mana fixing in the format:
M15/Origins - Enemy Pain Lands Khans of Tarkir - Allied fetch lands Battle for Zendikar - Allied Battle Lands Shadows Over Innistrad - Allied Reveal Lands Kaladesh - Enemy Fast Lands
Wyatt Young
Burn is a thing in this format. It's just not full of broken shit. >jeskai charm >stoke the flames >lightning strike Just to name a few. Thank God there's no retarded shit like bolt.
Jeremiah Gray
Playable ones:
Sorin, Solemn Visitor Ugin, the Spirit Dragon Kytheon, Hero of Akros Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Nissa, Vastwood Seer Gideon, Ally of Zendikar Ob Nixilis Reignited Chandra, Flamcaller Nissa, Voice of Zendikar Sorin, Grim Nemesis Jace, Unraveller of Secrets Arlinn Kord (maybe) Liliana, the Last Hope Chandra, Torch of Defiance Nissa, Vital Force Dovin Baan
Others: jank.
Isaac Jenkins
Don't forget that they can still play creature based mono red with Swiftspear, Titan's Strength, Dragon Fodder and Hordeling Outburst.
AND OH SWEET JESUS RABBLEMASTER.
Ethan Hughes
>mfw not even a new format makes Jace, the Living Guildpact playable.
I crai erry tiem
Noah Cooper
They should preemptively ban the fetch lands from the format, it'll keep 4 colour degeneracy low, stifle delve, and keep the format's price low.
Also Stoke the Flames + Thermo-Alchemist
Isaac Thompson
Is Mentor viable? I want to do Boros aggro
Chase Flores
The entire point of the format is that we don't need a ban list because nothing is so degenerate that it takes over.
Fetchlands are less valuable with battle lands and even though 4 colour goodstuff will be a deck, it'll be less good if a solid aggro deck picks up the pieces left after Rabblemaster left us.
William Peterson
> I get to play Rabble Red again.
I knew holding onto that deck was a great idea. A Green splash for ACommand and I've already got a deck.
Ryan Jenkins
A lack of 1/2 mana good spells are a bit of an issue for Mentor, but he's viable for sure if you're open to use stuff like Titan's Strength and Lightning Strike.
Henry Evans
OP Here, genuinely impressed by all the positive feedback about the format. I'm proud of you, Veeky Forums.
The closest thing we could get to a combo deck is Jeskai Ascendency. No degenerate shit without Caryatid and Retraction Helix, but being able to play Jeskai Aggro with Stoke the flames and Goblin Rabblemaster seems pretty good to me.
Luke Adams
>tfw swiftspear, abbot, reveler in one deck >temur battle rage is a card
Liam Robinson
My first job is gonna be to try and have as close an Immitation to Modern Jund as possible.
Jason Price
They don't have much reason to ban Cruise when there aren't cards like Gitaxian Probe, Serum Visions, and Sleight of Hand. You can't go through enough cards to power it out as easily as in other formats.
Robert Myers
>liliana the last hope >grim flayer >that weird mushroom that gets +3/+0 through delirium
well.
Jose Taylor
>Poorfag: the format
kek this shit will last less than tiny leaders
Ethan Thompson
The real enabler was thought scour. It was a 1 mana spell that functioned like black lotus for delve
Anything good in r or g that has delirium? All I see is Traverse the ullenvwald, Moldgraf Scavenger is cute, and Scourge Wolf is eh.
Nolan Morris
Sylvan advocate, too.
I've been brewing. The hardest cards to approximate are lightning bolt and dark confidant. Fiery Impulse or Wild Slash come close, but Bob will be a lot harder.
Thoughtsieze/ Inquisition too. But Duress/Despise might be close enough.
Sebastian Johnson
Controlbois where you at? Esper Dragons? Get dig, cruise, Dragons, aside from scorn we have nu-manaleak, dispel. What else?
Julian Perry
>Siege Rhino VS CoCo, The Format
James Perry
Asylum Visitor is Budget Bob
Jordan Turner
kcommand and acommand exist, 4 color burn with tcruise for gas and torrential gearhulk as a finisher could work. Its also nice that torrential is the same size as a fully grown goyf.
Henry Nelson
>abzan company >bant company >jund company
I swear, every single deck will have company in their name.
Aaron Barnes
I'm pretty OK with that. Maybe splash blue for cantrips like Refocus and boosts like Slip Through Space
Zachary Cook
First draft without an accurate landbase. It's too hard to copy your "Typical" modern Jund list as we don't have enough pieces. Delerium Jund on the other hand is not only viable but looks pretty fun.
Creatures Grim Flayer x4 Khalitas, Traitor of Ghet x2 Sylvan Advocate x2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang x1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer x2 Dragonlord Atarka x1 Emrakul, the Promised End x1
Other Spells Liliana, the Last Hope x4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance x1 Vessel of Nascency x4
Nathan Cox
'we have too much stock of shit cards, buy them from us' the format.
Josiah Thompson
Unsubstantiate or silumgars scorn, modern is too much of a safe space for counterplay but esperdragons gets almost for real counterspell and baby remand
Christian Butler
Fuck that shit
Make Naya aggro
Levi Edwards
But user, a fully grown goyf would be 8/9 or something.
Hudson Ross
>fully grown goyf would be 8/9 what
Lucas Perry
Instant, sorcery, creature, land, planeswalker, artifact, enchantment and who could forget tribal :^)
John Lee
Could immitate Modern with Nahiri Jeskai but gun for Ulamog instead of Emrakul. not as devistating but still pretty viable.
I agree though. You have "Counterspell" pretty much if you play a dragon deck. May as well play a dragon deck.
Michael Taylor
Ive never seen a game go long enough for a goyf to see tarfire and shit in the game. It usually should win out as a 5/6 but I see what youre saying.
Robert Gomez
I think curbing out at 4 is best. Kalitas, Pia and Kiran, Thunderbreak Regeant. There's tons of game winning value.
Lots of removal, too. Grasp of darkness, Ultimate Price, Murderous Cut.
I think the Jund mindset of Good_Stuff.dec is the way to go. Just play pure value.
Elijah Harris
>Play against tron >They cast All Is Dust >All your stuff is gone >Literally no way to win >Draw for turn, palms sweating >Tarmogoyf >Check opponents graveyard >"Tribal Sorcery" >Cast your 2 mana 8/9 and laugh in the face of your puny Tron opponent. >"Bad matchup my ass" >They cast Karn >Exile tarmogoyf >mfw
Jack Perry
Gnarlwood Dryad Ishkanah, Grafwidow
Hunter Thompson
Theres that new blue conter, but it looks like modern might be dying so who cares
Elijah Perez
Noted. Think it would be a stretch to focus on the "Cast Emrakul" gameplan then, or do i just drop the delerium focus and gun for more value cards and removal?
Also noted for Jund. Damn, Ishkanah, you scary.
Levi Davis
I've been toying around with delirium. Outside of bad cards like Tormonds Crypt, it's kind of hard to reliably get It online.
I'll keep brewing, but it looks like value is the way to go.
Also, Junk is going to be really good. Stuff like Declaration in Stone and Rhino.
Ryder Jackson
If we up the curve to 5 we can try Gitrog Monster and Ishkanah. Also Filigree Familliar helps a lot with Delerium while being our Kitchen Finks of the format. (That hurts to say...)
Curve up to 7 and go for a full on control deck and we get Dragonlord Atarka and Garruk, Apex Predator.
The future is bright.
Colton Brooks
I definitely think it's possible to play R/G, there's plenty of good cards to make it work.
Carson Smith
How relevant?
Michael Turner
Holy shit i forgot about this cunt!
Change of plan guys, we have turn 1 mana ramp again! Also every new elf can be considered for Tribal i guess cause we still have Shaman of the Pack.
Colton Sanders
The most important question is: why should people play this over Modern or Standard?
Modern has the power cards, Standard has the cheap durdlefest.
Benjamin Miller
RG Prowess/Burn Brew
4 Atarkha's Command 4 Built to Smash 4 Lightning Strike 4 Monastery Swiftspear 4 Temur Battlerage 2 Become Immense 1 Magmatic Chasm 4 Voltaic Brawler 3 Blossoming Defense 4 Larger than Life 3 Sanguinary Mage 2 Bedlam Reveler 2 Titanic Growth 4 Wooded Foothills 4 Bloodstained Mire 4 Cinder Glade 3 Forest 4 Mountain
R8
Owen Allen
standard rotates too fast now and modern's staples are rare as fuck, both problems cause them to be expensive as fuck. Read the article instead of crossposting you fuck this isnt reddit.
Nolan Cook
People who thought they're sick 4 color deck that rotated and got BTFO when they brought it to modern. I'd like to play Jeskai Black again, but I don't think this format will catch on.
Aiden Sanders
Don't forget Anguished Unmaking for more midrange goodness.
Caleb Sullivan
It's not crosspossting, just a polite way of pointing out the format will die out fast due to the playerbase having better options. You have to be a literal poorfag to play this over Standard or Modern, and even if you were, Pauper is a lot cheaper and more powerful than Super Standard.
Elijah Williams
The blowback from Modern players who won't switch is going to kill this format alone. And it's going to cannibalize your player base even further.
Keep in mind this is a Japanese store that fires at least eight events a day between all formats so they obviously have bodies to get this done.
I see many reasons why this format cannot be picked up in North America. It's why Tiny Leaders or Canadian Highlander are more or less isolated to their communities because everyone is having a hard enough time getting the more established formats to fire on their own.
Logan Butler
Because it can be fun? Do you need an excuse to play magic?
There is a chance for Wizards to adopt this format, or one very similar. They don't care about Legacy or Vintage, they've fucked Modern up quite a lot. They've been carefully choosing and designing cards in their standard sets to have what they think is the perfect power level, and there's nothing really degenerate about the decks you can make given these restrictions.
On top.of that, you get to play Magic. Not aggro the format, not durrdle the format, not masturbate all over the table the format.
Most of these decks feel like real, honest magic. They don't have a huge skill ceiling, but a high enough skill floor, they aren't brain dead. Most decks can be a healthy mix of aggro, Midrange, combo, and control. It seems like a really good format, to be honest.
Lincoln Hall
Isn't said store actually the best place to play paper Vintage? I remember reading that somewhere
William Baker
>Tiny Leaders or Canadian Highlander I'll admit that i am not that well versed in every format of magic but i have never heard of these.
Mason Kelly
>Modern has the power cards
>Ponder banned >Preordain banned
go on and pull the other one. Modern's version of "power" is a joke.
Robert Ortiz
>he wants to spend 600 dollars on a standard deck that will rotate in half a year, 900+ dollars on a deck that will get its cornerstone card banned, or 3000+ to play legacy Or you could skip the bullshit and play pauper, frontier, or edh.
Nathan Cox
Tiny Leaders was kinda like EDH, but only 50 cards and nothing over 3 mana. The only thing people played was Geist and Dark Depths combos. It died in a month.
Sebastian Wilson
And Legacy/Vintage costs an arm and a leg and probably a testicle to get into unless you proxy.
On top of that, they have next to no representation of players.
Meanwhile, Modern actually has a large standing of players and only costs an arm OR a leg to get into.
Xavier Price
You have to be a literal poorfag to not be able to spend a bit of money on your hobby. Just trade up and amass your collection, sell before rotation, etc. Go play Pauper if you're that buttblasted about things costing money.
Ayden Rodriguez
Formats shouldnt be limited by casting cost, its a lesson that all future format makes wont have to learn firsthand.
Connor Campbell
I made Ezuri and never lost. So they at least have 3 decent decks >pauper >frontier You mean the formats that literally no one plays or will play?
The shitters that want frontier would rather just play standard because the chances of finding someone else that will play it are slim to none
Daniel Bennett
You get the thumbs up from me.
Fun. The best reason. Plus new deck building restrictions encourages intelligent building.
Or... We could try out a new format and have fun without without people buttblasting it before a single card has been slung?
Camden Bailey
Dude, this format is just extended ktk standard. I actually liked that standard, but a lot of people didn't.
Jose Cook
So its literally R/G prowess from BFZ? K
Hudson Adams
>And Legacy/Vintage costs an arm and a leg
So does Modern. You can build Legacy decks cheaper than modern decks, and the variety of of decks you can play is greater too.
Modern is just a worse version of Extended, created purely because it was intended to be cheaper. Now it's not cheap to play, its ban list is way too long, so it's time to replace it.
Mason Hughes
If you've got brews, I'm all ears
Andrew Sanders
I spent about $200 to buy Affinity when I got into Modern. I feel like that was perfectly fine, no problem.
For someone to buy Affinity today, they're looking at about $700. You know, I'm a bit more leery of that price myself.
Sebastian Collins
.... I know. I loved that standard season and I'm just a huge fag who wants to play siege rhino again.
Jason King
Exactly. They showed up, make a stink for MAYBE a month as everyone wrote their "oh sweet, I don't have to think up a topic for an article this week" article. And they skulked back to the holes they crawled out from.
Not to put down the formats, people put time and thought into them, and they're popular at their respective stores. But the whole concept of homebrewed formats only works when you have huge stores to establish them.
But to export your fucking cancerous format to other smaller stores struggling to get anything outside of Standard to fire, well, that's doing nobody any favors. It's like convincing places to play Pauper, you're only going to pull it off if you have hundreds of established regular players who are legitimately bored of other formats. Otherwise, Pauper, French EDH, and a variety of other formats are just going to piss off people who don't get to play enough Standard or Limited as is.
Camden James
You can only build dredge for cheaper than modern
Brayden Long
>The blowback from Modern players who won't switch is going to kill this format alone.
This is what people were talking back during the modern inception about Legacy players. Modern had established base of ex-extended players tho.
Dominic Carter
>It's like convincing places to play Pauper, you're only going to pull it off if you have hundreds of established regular players who are legitimately bored of other formats. >hundreds of established players >a small store
Uhhh
Kayden Howard
The cheaper the format the more people who can play it. I dont care about cost to play but paper magic is dying because of the cost barrier. I have jumped straight over modern and spent the thousands to play a real format, but paper magic will die if the cuck format that is modern continues to be the common face of magic. You cant get kids to stop playing kitchen table and 30 dollar edh and play in fnms if they find out it costs 1000 bucks for a playset of goyfs. They can get an xbox and the newest call of duty and beat up the kids who play magic for far less.
Christopher James
>Modern has the power cards
Like Ruse Cruse or Dig? Am I right?
Joshua Reed
>His goyfs don't regularly become 6/7s Poor deck building
Anthony Butler
>frontier has a version of timetwister, ancestral recall and counterspell >modern has goyf bolt and lotv Who are the cucks aggro babies or control kiddies?
Lincoln Lopez
>paper magic is dying Let the doomsayers out!
You heard it here first, folks. Paper magic is dying!
Unless you show valid data for paper magic actually 'dying', I think Wizards is doing just fine, with every format included
Zachary King
Play smash bros melee. huge playerbase, all sorts of local communities in every major city, cheap to free barrier of entry (you have an old Wii or can get one cheap, get a gamecube controller, hack that Wii and run 20xx on a usb stick)
Cheapest hobby I've ever seen. I spent 11 bucks on a Wii and controller at a garage sale and I've gotten limitless replay value out of it and have made loads of friends.
Daniel Mitchell
My donut steel format I'm bored enough to playtest is Dumpster Delve, where no card can be worth more than $4.99. I'm still messing around with friends on this and I'm under absolutely no illusions that it will be the next big hit, it's just something that came up because I'm butt blasted at paper magic costs.
Also before you ask the cost is checked against the cheapest printing of your card in mint condition.
Lincoln Myers
>Modern is just a worse version of Extended, created purely because it was intended to be cheaper. Now it's not cheap to play, its ban list is way too long, so it's time to replace it. Precisely. Now, what makes you Frontier would somehow avoid the same fate?