Flames of War General /fowg/ - Expand Truppen Edition

Never better than Americans in Africa.

If you're meaning models, with some effort and a few head swaps, soviet scouts wearing pilotkas with papashas and DP MGs would work.

The British Starter: Charlie's Chieftains is coming with a mini rulebook. Where was that 3 months ago, Battlefront?

I'd imagine that they weren't confident enough in the success of Team Yankee yet to do that.

Plus there is probably printing time to consider as well. They probably only decided to start printing the mini rulebooks for Team Yankee after they had already made Leopard.

Oh fuck i need to buy a ton of helos now

Lynx Airmobile Company
-HQ 1x rifle, 1x Lynx
-Airmobile Platoon (4x MG, 3x Milan, 2" mortar, 3x Lynx)
-Airmobile Platoon (4x MG, 3x Milan, 2" mortar, 3x Lynx)
-Airmobile Milan Section (8x Milan, 3x Lynx)
Lynx Airmobile Company
-HQ 1x rifle, 1x Lynx
-Airmobile Platoon (4x MG, 3x Milan, 2" mortar, 3x Lynx)
-Airmobile Platoon (4x MG, 3x Milan, 2" mortar, 3x Lynx)
-Airmobile Milan Section (8x Milan, 3x Lynx)
Divisional Support
4x M109
1x FV432 FOO
2x Tracked Rapier SAM
4x Lynx HELARM
4x Lynx HELARM
4x Harrier
100 pts

28 choppers and 28 Milans

>Never better than Americans in Africa.

What is that supposed to mean?

Phil Yates infamously declared at one point before Berlin was released that Veteran Soviets weren't likely, and then claimed that the Soviets who were one of the most powerful armies by the end of the war weren't ever better than the Americans who hadn't dug trenches at the end of their marches, fell repeatedly for obvious German traps, generally got Yank Spanked, in Tunisia.

If they sell choppers in boxes of 2 like they have with the other nations, let's do some math. We'll assume the cost will be $30 per box.

14 x $30 = $420

That's just for Lynxs. But hey, if you have the cash go for it! Just watch out for Gepards.

That makes sense. I am just salty. The rulebook is probably an extra carrot to get people to buy the British starter. At least at our FLGS, people are more excited for the mechanized units than the Chieftains.

Churchill Mk VIII can be purchased as upgrades in Overlord, Nachtjager and Road to Rome Churchills lists. Only one per platoon as most went to Crocodile production and not that many trickled down to Tank Regiments.

Nope, you're thinking of the Churchill VII (7), not VIII (8)

>If they sell choppers in boxes of 2 like they have with the other nations, let's do some math. We'll assume the cost will be $30 per box.
I found them at 22.5 euros here in europoorland, still that's 315 euros in total and that's a bit too much.
>At least at our FLGS, people are more excited for the mechanized units than the Chieftains.
That's normal since britbongs seems to have the strongest infantry in the game

It'll be an expensive list to assemble and play, but I can certainly understand the appeal.

Thoughts about this list? General idea is to steadily advance with the Churchills, Crocs, and APCed Gurkhas while the Shermans provide covering fire/smoke. The Spitfire tries to take out any heavy armor that the Churchills can't handle. Infantry/guns get rekt by the Gurkhas and the Crocs.

No recce, and guntankable command tanks...

Pretty much what said.

I'll also add that having no AT above 11 is risky in Late War.

>I'll also add that having no AT above 11 is risky in Late War.
When attacking, anyway. Defending infantry can get away with it as long as they have good TA values.

Your only auto-pin is the aircraft, which will be unrelaible when dealing with enemy hiding in terrain. You have no Recce. Your company command tanks can be picked out from any platoon they join, making them easier to snipe. You have no real counter to enemy heavy armor (the spitfire is too unrelaible). You'll do ok against infantry and medium armor, but TD lists, guns, and heavy armor will kill you easy.

I'm trying to put together some lists for China now we have pacific points, but I've hit a stumbling block already. The German-trained KMT divisions included a group referred to as a "Small artillery company", equipped with 20mm autocannons. Anyone know if these were AA guns or if they were just a super-machinegun company?

I think they were Solothurn cannons, which were semi-automatic anti-tank guns. Not very good, but neither was Japanese armor.

Did Iron Maiden already leak?

WHERE IS MY PANZERTRUPPEN!?

You guys like boxes?

Yes, yes and yes.

No, boxes are shit.

Shame I'm boring about it.

How about paints?

What brand is that?

Vallejo, a bunch of it. Along with some of BF's parachute tank riders. All for an Operation Varisty Airlanding company with Churchill support. Just need all the PSC stuff to arrive at the local shop...

Surprisingly, fitting the full 3 teams of 4 on a Churchill was pretty easy. Going to try and glue them into pairs or trios for ease of use in game, though.

I had considered AT rifles, but there's none listed in 20mm calibre outside of captured Japanese articles. They did, however, have the 20mm Madsen cannon, though I'm surprised there'd be organic AA to that extent. Possible they were used as AT guns.

This is what I have more or less ready for the 80 point bratwurst battle:
>2 full bmp-2 companies
>6 carnations plus observer
>4 gopher sams
>a t-72 I used to test colors on
What do I add? This is 69 points.

T-72s.

I'll second the recommendation for more T-72s.

Hinds are also a good option if you can fit them in.

Checking it seems that the Solothurn is considered a 20mm cannon, not a 20mm antitank rifle, despite how the finns used it, so I guess that might well be the light artillery company.

Is there a naval equivalent to FOW out there anywhere?

Marqod was talking about one the other day when we were recording Panzerfunk, but I forget the name of it.

Perhaps he can provide it for you.

WWPD spoiled pretty much everything at this point, i took the points from their spoilers

Victory at sea is bretty gud, it has simple mechanics yet it rewards a lot a good strategy and tactical thinking

The game I mentioned is Naval War, a free living ruleset that's currently quite a way along in development.
Only some final tweaks for specialised stuff, weather and scenarios needed on the core rules, after which orders of battle (comparable to FoW campaign books) and balancing points values more precisely are what's gonna take the real work.

You can find it here:
navalwar.boards.net

It's intended to fill the same kind of design space as FoW; a decent amount of tactical depth, while still playing fluidly, unlike most simulationist games.
Development actually started after the VaS update had been delayed for a couple of years.

Does anyone know where I could find a good book about british troop/platoon level tank tactics, particularly any dealing with Churchills? I can find generic, german, and American stuff, but nothing for the brits.

How is IS-85?

Pretty great, but also pretty expensive, and their role in many respects can be covered by other, more numerous teams.

Basically a more heavily armored T-34. Viable at their current point cost, but now that you can bring bedspring armor on T-34s , I'd rather just bring those.

it's easy to spend up for Team Yankee....

look how casual this list of buys is!

I know it. I've put over $300, probably closer to $400 on West Germans. I blame the 100 point limit and lots of resin (with cheap points value).

>that is 600.50 USD....

That meme always brings a smile to my face

And here I was feeling bad for spending ~$180 on my Airlanding Brits... Though considering that it builds 2340 points, and that includes the paints and the purely visual tank riders, that's pretty good.

me too.

Hey guys, I e-mailed PSC at their Info@ address three weeks ago, then again last week, and didn't get a response either time. You guys that have gotten in contact with them before, how you did you contact them?

Seems I have bad luck for buying paint.

I bought a bolt action british uniform spray to serve as a cheap and cheerful basecoat for my British Airborne but it seems like Warlord games no longer sells it. The only one on ebay is going for 80 bucks which is insane.

Anyone know a similar product with a British uniform brown spray?

Been away from FoW for a few months. Whoever updated Grey Wolf and the Ardennes compilations, bless you.

I must've spent at $2000 on FoW and paint/general hobby supplies over the last 5 years.

US, German, Soviet, and even a mid war Romanian army.

At least I know if I ever sold it I'd make a profit since I painted it all really nicely.

I find it too difficult to paint like that. I always do the tank first, then paint any riders/crew while they're glued to popsicle sticks

Is there any TY expert here?
How does this lost look:
HQ Chieftan w/ stillbrew
3x Chieftans w/ stillbrew
3x Chieftans w/ stillbrew
4x Scorpions
4x Abbots
4x Blowpipes
1x FOO
4x HELARMs
4x HELARMs
4x Harriers
100 pts
The idea behind so many choppers and aircrafts is to try to saturate enemy aa so i can taje it out early with choppers and not care for tge rest of the gane, should i instead drop one of the helarms flights to put in a mechanized or airmobile platoon plus something else (like more scorpions)?

Oh yeah, not gluing them to anything before I paint them, and even afterwards was only planning on gluing them to each other, not the tank they're temporary riding.

I made too many typos

>based koksal baba

Turkish TY forces when?
the box can be called Koksals Roaches.

I think PSC has a british khaki rattle can.

I used the same info address. I imagine it all depends on how busy Will is when you send the email. What are you asking him?

I'd go with one less HELARM for some mech infantry. You have enough AT, and some infantry would be more flexible.

>What are you asking him?
If it's possible to order 2 of one of the infantry sprues (namely an officer sprue) because the boxes are a bit short on officer models.

Maybe you can try sending a postcard to the snail mail address. Increase the odds of someone seeing it.

tax 6.85% *-*
In Spain 21% :(

Someone's gotta pay for all them rapefugees senpai.

The hidden cost of getting things "free" from the government.

What kind of units would Turkey have available to it in 1984 or 85?

It's because the US doesn't have or half-has most public services and, in some states, barely has roads.

Yeah, but could you imagine Americans paying a 20% tax?

We rebelled against Britain in part over a Tea Tax that was *maybe* 2% or 3%.

>What kind of units would Turkey have available to it in 1984 or 85?

Pretty standard NATO organization and equipment. AFV-wise in the mid-90s they started to diversify with Russian and Israeli surplus as well as homegrown designs.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_equipment_of_the_Turkish_Land_Forces

Well it may be only a 6% sales tax, but when you combine income tax and taxes on business revenue the government is triple dipping on the same money.

You been to New Orleans? I won't complain about roads anywhere else after driving on some of those "streets"

Panzertruppen when?

Also: what is the point standard for late war Pacific games?

Oh, I'm aware why they won't, but it's hardly a good thing that US tax is so low. People pay tax for a reason, not just because the government hates everyone (though I've heard horror stories about the IRS, so maybe they do).

Getting this thread back on track, how do you decide if a company gets a smoke bombardment or not? The most obvious issue is soviet guns, which had smoke rounds, but there are other vehicles for which smoke rounds were available, like german 75s, which don't seem to use them either.

>Panzertruppen when?

Soon (TM).

>Also: what is the point standard for late war Pacific games?

Typically the same as Late War Europe, I'd imagine.

The current Late War tournament point value is 1420, if I'm remembering correctly.

Although 1500 is quite common as well.

Thoughts on this list?
Nachtjager Airlanding company:

Compulsory Airlanding Company HQ (p.3) - CiC SMG, 2iC SMG (60 pts)

Compulsory Airlanding Platoon (p.3) - Command Rifle/MG, PIAT, Light Mortar, 5x Rifle/MG (220 pts)
>Command Panzerfaust/SMG upgrade (10 pts)

Compulsory Airlanding Platoon (p.3) - Command Rifle/MG, PIAT, Light Mortar, 5x Rifle/MG (220 pts)
>Command Panzerfaust/SMG upgrade (10 pts)

Airborne Recce Platoon (p.6) - Command Universal Carrier, Daimler Dingo (70 pts)

Airborne Recce Mortar Platoon (p.7) - Command Rifle, Observer Rifle, 4x ML 4.2" mortar (170 pts)

Airlanding Platoon, Royal Engineers (p.8) - Command Rifle/MG, 6x Rifle/MG (215 pts)
>PIAT (20 pts)
>Light Mortar (25 pts)
>Pioneer Supply Jeep (20 pts)

Guards Tank Platoon (p.12) - Command Churchill VII, Churchill VI, Churchill IV (late) (360 pts)
>2x Applique armor (20 pts)

1420 Points, 6 platoons

The two Airlanding platoons form the core of the force, with the Engineers providing a slightly larger backup platoon that can plop down some obstacles. Churchills provide a heavily armored block that re-rolls every relevant morale test (Between Protected ammo, Guards, and British Bulldog), making them quasi-fearless. Recce and mortars are recce and mortars, don't really need to explain anything there. Lacks ranged heavy AT, but against most heavy armor lists I'll be Night Attacking or defending, so they should be forced to fight me in assault (where FV brits with gammon bombs and Panzerfausts work very well).

Alternate version replaces the Churchills and the Engineer platoon's Light Mortar with a 4-gun 6pdr battery, a 4-gun 3" mortar battery, a 2-gun HMG platoon, and a company PIAT (or transports for the HMGs, 6pdrs, and 4.2" Mortars). The company becomes a bit more flexible, at the cost of losing the heavy armor and having some more fragile platoons.

BuMP

ded thread

ded game

Random question but what's the most widely used system for warfare around the time of the Jacobite rebellion?

I bet you could use black powder for it if you want to keep it 15mm.

>Panzertruppen when
Hopefully October. It's not like they are adding anything besides m113s.

Black Powder should do it pretty well.

There's actually /awg/ for Alternative War-games that tends to cover historicals in general pretty well.

Anyone have thoughts on this? Or is my listbuilding only good for killing threads?

I would probably go with the non-Churchill option. Churchills don't have enough armour to ignore the most common anti-tank and tank guns, meaning they'll eat all kinds of shit as soon as they're visible. Trackless, meanwhile, gives you enough fun toys to be truly lethal, in either defense (6pdrs) or offense (mortars).

There's also /hwg/, for REAL historical games.

This. Churchills are at a really odd spot in flames. On one hand, they're very nicely armored for their price and they can go nearly anywhere. On the other, 3-tank platoons, shit guns, and thier armor is JUST short of being proof against the standard AT 11 guns the germans use. A single platoon, sadly, just presents a nice target for the ubiquitous anti-Panther (AT 13+) guns, and being heavy tanks is nearly worthless when everyone and their mom has a panzerfaust. Churchills need to be fielded en masse, saturating enemy AT assets. Sadly this works poorly with infantry using them as support. If the VII had the Jumbo rule like it SHOULD, then it'd probably be fine as a single support platoon. As-is, they get the two light ones picked off and then will fail morale and bail on you.

>ded thread

I've had my nose to the grindstone editing an episode of Panzerfunk.

Sue me. :-P

You just hate us because we're finally forcing the issue one having one extremely common rule set that thousands of people play, instead of that one specific ruleset out of hundreds that you play with your 3 other friends.

That's the problem with historical war gaming, everyone and their brother has written a ruleset for any given time period and everyone has a different preferred ruleset.

not the same guy but hey there is a pretty decent majority that play major rule sets. Usually we use black powder as a base, and add homebrew rules that fit specific circumstances. That can be as fun for us as the game itself.

anyway, rate my Italian paras? its for a mid-war thing coming up about 1500 points, Based around the second battle for el-alemein. Im guessing my opponents are gonna throw 100 tanks at a time at me.

Infantry Company, from North Africa, page 108

Compulsory Compagnia Paracadutisti HQ (p.109) - CinC SMG, 2inC SMG (50 pts)

Compulsory Paracadustisti Platoon (p.109) - Command Rifle/MG, 6x Rifle/MG (185 pts)
- Replace Command Rifle/MG with Command SMG (0 pts)
- Equip all Rifle/MG and SMG with Passaglia Bombs (10 pts)

Compulsory Paracadustisti Platoon (p.109) - Command Rifle/MG, 6x Rifle/MG (185 pts)
- Replace Command Rifle/MG with Command SMG (0 pts)
- Equip all Rifle/MG and SMG with Passaglia Bombs (10 pts)

Paracadustisti Platoon (p.109) - Command Rifle/MG, 6x Rifle/MG (185 pts)
- Replace Command Rifle/MG with Command SMG (0 pts)
- Equip all Rifle/MG and SMG with Passaglia Bombs (10 pts)

Paracadustisti Machine-gun Platoon (p.109) - Command Rifle, 4x Mod 37 HMG (150 pts)

Paracadustisti Mortar Platoon (p.110) - Command Rifle, 3x 81/14 mortar (105 pts)
- Observer Rifle (15 pts)

Paracadustisti Anti-tank Platoon (p.110) - Command Rifle, 4x 47/32 gun (135 pts)

Heavy Anti-aircraft Platoon (p.112) - Command Lancia da 90/53, Lancia da 90/53 (220 pts)

Anti-aircraft / Anti-tank Platoon (p.113) - Command Rifle, 2x 90/53 gun (200 pts)

1460 Points, 8 Platoons

what the heck is a commonwealth rifle/mg team? 1 bren guy and i can use enfields for the rest? How about a german one? matching these PSC army deals to an actual list is annoying.

My tactics will be pretty simple. FV Infantry keeping assaults at bay while i use the range on my bigger guns to mince their tommie cookers.
Given the "historical" nature of the campaign, im pretty much always going to be on the defensive. This means i am also going to be dug-in as much as possible.
Worried about my smaller platoon sizes but thats what you get then you want FV italians

If you wanted to be Historically correct about it, You'd have one team of only rifles, and one team with LMG per section.

Or just give one apiece. Germans should have one per squad.

With PSC's infantry for my brit rifle platoons i made 6 teams consisting in 2 enfields, 1 guy with a bren and a guy helping to reaload or another enfield if they are standing, there should be enough brens for 3 platoons in each company box iirc

Rifle/MG teams are an abstraction so you don't need to have half your platoons as MG teams and the other half as Rifle teams.

In practice, you have half your teams carrying a LMG, supported by riflemen, while the other half is just riflemen. You'd also have one NCO (probably carrying a submachine gun) per combination of two bases. I don't remember exactly which base they would be on for Brits/Germans if you want historical fireteam sizes.

I have huge amounts of pics like that. Most of them are Hungarian.

I think it looks good. You can use the rest of your points on extra crew and/or transports for the AT/AA.