Warhammer Fantasy General: Huge Spiders Edition

Wrt. WFRP 2e, no; they're also immune to mutation.

Hey user. Sorry, this is for the old Warhammer. You want the Age of Sigmar thread: Enjoy your new game.

Oops sorry my mistake!

>One party member is played by a guy fascinated with Chaos IRL
>In-game he wears a breastplate taken from the corpse of a beastman champion (taken and defiled in turn from a Warrior Priest of Sigmar) and during the last patch of difficulty he "called out to any deity who will listen" for help
>Another party member dies and the guy gets a new character
>It's a wizard
>He's leaning towards the Grey Order or the Light Order

What do we do?

The 9th Age picked up the torch. Apparently the Brets are now the "Kingdom of Equitaine." I'm still pretty new to WFB (yes, it is suffering to join in AFTER its death) so I have no idea how much the army was updated, but the list and the rules are free to download from the site.

So, question: Ignoring the End Times, Storm of Chaos and Endhammer, how would you logically continue the WHFB setting?

They'll always be the Kingdom of Bretonnia to me.

Can someone give me a quick overview of the differences between 6th, 7th, and 8th edition?

Are the differences mostly in the armybooks? Were there rules added?

The only thing I've heard is some people were salty about 8th edition because you needed a larger army than you used to compared to other editions.

Storm of Chaos gets BTFO (you said ignoring it, but fuck you). Archon dies begging for his life. Valten assassinated. Schism between Esmer and his church-in-exile and Volkmar and his 'true' church on this event, Volkmar's mysterious return, etc. Possible war between Marienburg and the Empire brewing due to this religious conflict ratcheting up and the elves being distracted with yet another Malekith invasion.

Mallobaude building up his forces to attack greater Bretonnia and cast down the chivalric order. Economic backing by ambitious Imperials and Arabyans who each want a good inroad with a new king. Arkhan the Black manipulating the Arabyans from behind the scene, aiming to further weaken the old world to pave the way for the coming of Nagash.

Tomb Kangz invade the Empire, Border Princes, Bretonnia, Tilea, Estalia. Shit is not going well.

Mallobaude's revolution goes off. Civil war and foreign invasions beset Bretonnia. Mannlet von Carstein invades the Empire.

Nagash finally makes his move while everyone is being torn to pieces. Shaky alliance formed between human nations, Kangz, and the vampires after Mannlet is killed or assassinated.

Coup by the Cult of Slaanesh in Naggaroth. Malekith cut off from home with nothing but a few corsair fleets to his name.

Lizardmen get super ass-angered at Morathi and her Slaanesh cult for stealing shit from them, invade Naggaroth. Being held off despite Morathi's problems with the Cult of Khaine thanks to an alliance with the Hung.

Skaven take advantage of Ulthuan's unique vulnerability to attack it and actually do damage. Skryre weapon built by an absolute madrat breaks off a chunk of Morrslieb which crashes, devastating Ulthuan.

Dwarfs beset by greenskins fresh from pillaging the forges of the dawi zharr and Grand Cathay. Empire unable to honor ancient agreements. Relationship grows cold and strained.

Kislev rides in at the last moment with winged lancers to save Constantinople...er, Altdorf.

Big ass Nehekaran invasion of the Old World to shake things up.

Enter the Age of Grim Darkness!

From the north, Archaon leads the forces of Chaos and invades the Old World. Kislev gets fucked really hard, but doesn't go down without a fight. Majority of Kislevites are displaced by Chaos and seek refuge in the Empire. Katarin and her warriors take up residence in Altdorf, pledging their undying fealty to the Empire if Kislev can be liberated. Karl-Franz requests aid from both Karaz-a-Karak and Couronne, but receives no response.

In the west, civil war grips Bretonnia as Louen Leoncoeur defends his realm against the sinister Mallobaude and his undead legions. The wood elves watch from the edges of Athel Loren, debating whether or not they should involve themselves in the conflict.

In the east, the World's Edge Mountains are teeming with greenskins above and below. While out killing some boredom in the Dark Lands, Grimgor Ironhide has heard that the strange men of the north have decided to come down and play. Standing in Grimgor's path, however, is Karaz-a-Karak and perhaps the greatest army of dwarves assembled since the War of Vengeance. While the stout dawi may be unable to directly aid the Empire against Chaos, they are determined to end Grimgor's advance and send his Waaagh! fleeing back into the east.

In the south, the Badlands are overrun with corpses. The Tomb Kings have made their move and are slaughtering their way through the disorganized greenskin tribes while the Border Princes tremble in fear. The forces of Nehekara slowly advance northwards, killing all in their path. The realms of the Border Princes fall and soon Tilea and Estalia both find themselves facing down the forces of the Tomb Kings. It's obvious they are but stepping stones to the greater prizes of Bretonnia and the Empire.

Meanwhile, the skaven consider their options. High Elves and Dark Elves battle once again. Lizardmen do nothing.

....Keep things as they are before any of that stuff happens, with vague threats in every direction but never actually making a move to have them pass so fans can keep having fun around the game table?

Pre 8th units were just static combat res and fodder (not counting super elite first strikers)

If a floating castle full of hostile, unknown enemies appeared above the lands of the various factions, how would each one solve the problem?

>Still not as bad as Fimir.
I'm going to be doing a WHFRP 2e campaign based on them actually. Legit will not be magical realm.

im not sure we are seeing the same image here
what i see are men-at-arms getting rekt by fimir

They need not be magical realm even if they are still horrible rapists.

Everyones 8ed ending just continues.

Tomb kings begin the great purge and araby, the badlands and tilea come under attack by vast legions of skeletal warriors

Lizardmen armies start showing up all over the world, almost exclusively in fights against chaos, skaven, orcs and vampires.

The empire prepares for war on a scale not seen in recent history. Karl franz secures the aid of both the dwarfs and the high elves, who help strengthen the northern border against archaons hordes. They are mysteriously aided by the lizardmen as well.

The bretonnian civil war comes to an end when the Kings bests Malloublade in single combat. An err entry crusade is launched into Mousillion, and the vampires are successfully driven out. Bretonnia then prepares to aid the empire in the war against archaon.

Ogres spill out of the mountains of mourn and into the dark lands as part of Greasus' plan to conquer new territories. Ogre armies start invading the badlands and border princes, where they come into conflict with both greenskins and Tomb kings. Their true target is the moot, which Greasus has sworn he will take for the ogres once and for all.

Grimgor leads his WAAAGH east to take on morglum neck snapper. He triumphs and continues on towards cathay
Skarsknit launches his largest assault against the skaven, intending on wiping out the dwarfs shortly afterwards

The dwarfs are assailed by skaven, greenskins and worst things. Thorgrimm orders the ancestor tombs to be unsealed and the ancient weapons of old be brought forward. New mechanical war machines, many of them only decades old, are brought out to the battlefield. Thorgrimm says every bit of dwarf ingenuity must be used to face the oncoming storm.
Ungrimm leads a large army to aid the empire, helping strengthen the northern border

Wood elves have realized that they must take an active role in saving the old world. Orion leads his wild hunt to aid the loyalist bretonnians against the traitors.

magic/artillery/bats

...

Back in early Warhammer they were in every Empire army and were OP as fuck.

How much can you civilize Goblins, even in the oldest Warhammer stretch of canon, and would you allow Empire Goblins?

gobbos are green.
they can't be civilized.

Damn.

It's a setting. Not a story. If you want a narrative, make your own using a campaign system. You make your own. It's sort of the point.

Why are idiots so obsessed with this idea that every setting needs to progress like a plotline would? It's absurd. You can always add new elements to the setting if freshness is a concern. Expansion books with new mechanics and ways to play are fun.

To be fair, Faerun is a setting that progresses.

But it does so in small increments that don't eliminate the thousands of plot hooks.

Does anyone care if Lolth's son dies or merges with his sister? Was anyone worried about the gods of magic being mortal for a year? Did either destroy Waterdeep and all related unresolved storylines?

Small increments is fine. Big increments are fine.

What people are forgetting is that it's also perfectly fine for a setting to be a 'snapshot'.

There are bonuses to every way of doing them and they'll all valid. There's just so many people who complain about settings not progressing like a 'main story' when that isn't necessarily the point of a setting. It's really daft snobbery.

>halflings
>OP
Explain

Not exactly sure how, but they were important in almost every batrep invomving Empire in old White Dwarfs. I think it was LD though.

Is warhammer fantasy dead on Veeky Forums?

>and would you allow Empire Goblins?
Under no circumstance

I would love to see goblin tribes with looted imperial gear acting all imperial and shit, and being hilariously horrible at it

That's as civilized as they could get imo, mocking other civilizations

In my WFRP game, I had a goblin take control of an abandoned toll booth on a rarely-used road, put on a discarded uniform, and try to pretend to be a tollkeeper, demanding taxes in food. The PCs were not impressed. He happened to have a troll for muscle.

Anyone in Nor Cal going to the Infernal Zoo 9th Age tournament this weekend?

Getting to be. Sometimes I think this should just be a weekend general, because there's too little to talk about for an all week general now.

If you'd like I could do a story time of my WHF 2e game that ended last month.

>Sometimes I think this should just be a weekend general

Already suggested this before. I'm literally just here to fill my art folder these days.

I'm always up for storytime.

Main reason I think a switch would be a bad thing is that AoS is still an all-week general, and I could see that turning into a skubfest.

I just feel like no one is playing games, except me I'm almost full time 9th age. Its p good guys! I need to know what people are running!

I hang around for WFRP stuff.

Anyone else hate the idea of unified chaos/chaos undivided? For gods that hate each other, they ally far too easily and frequently.
They also aren't really chaotic, just evil. I feel like the chaos gods were truly chaotic and incomprehensible, just as likely to aid the mortal races as they are to war against them. Instead all of their goals seem pretty stale and predictable, always some variation of revenge or domination. Orcs do chaos better than chaos

I play Empire and Dorfs in 9th age. I also GM a WFRP campaign, on going for a year+ now. House ruled simplified 3rd edition. In my world Morheim was still a city, and only recently was hit by a comet while the players were on their way there.

Is this the same logic that says that Dwarfs can't use magic?

Eh, I preferred 1ed WFRP. Felt less generic than 2ed did.

The Firmir are the villains of choice for our Dark Beneath campaign setting.

The Halflings had one of the best missile units in the old Empire armies. Great range, great accuracy and could fuck you up hard. Mind you - this was back in the 'small units, few units' era of Warhammer where ranged attacks were scary as a rule.

>goblin
>pretend to be a tollkeeper

That sounds like a genuinely fun idea. Might use it.

What are you playing at the moment?

I think the idea of Unified Chaos is silly, but the idea of Chaos Undivided is alright.

>House ruled simplified 3rd edition. In my world Morheim was still a city, and only recently was hit by a comet while the players were on their way there.

Don't leave us hanging, story time?

Also, are you playing it in the past for when the meteor struck, or pushing it up to the present?

And how are you finding the 3ed system?

Bloodbowl seems to have semi-civilised Goblins that people...tolerate. So I guess if you give all the different warring nations a better outlet to relieve their aggression you'd be able to get an Empire of Gobbos.

>Is this the same logic that says that Dwarfs can't use magic?
Well it is from the same source (realms of sorcery) that says dwarfs can't naturally use magic. It also makes sense since Halflings are were designed to be resistant to magic and ended up being pretty useless in every other way.

Fair call. 2ed WFRP is a different setting to 1ed WFRP. I'm not too crash-hot on some of the changes they made. In 2ed you don't get non-dwarfen Runes, for one. And it kind of ignores/breaks the whole thing with Chaos Dwarfs and magic. But eh, whatever version of the setting works for the group - that's the important thing.

>I think the idea of Unified Chaos is silly, but the idea of Chaos Undivided is alright.
Totally agree. Chaos undivided, as in mortals honoring the gods equally or as a pantheon makes sense. Chaos being able to organize on a level that the order races never could just makes no sense. How do they unite the disparate warring tribes, countless champions with totally different agendas, chaos dwarfs, beastmen, and daemons, none of which are homogenous in the slightest, while Men, elves and dwarfs hardly ever get their shit together?

I'd like it better if the chaos gods were chaotic and would use the mortal races as pawns to further their own position in the great game

It turns out the Chaos Gods are amazing micromanagers, who knew?

>Good at micromanaging
>Want Chaos to Win the setting
>Responsible for essentially everything that's ever happened in the setting
>Essentially make up all the gods and magic from themselves
>Use to be perceived in a more positive light by the fanbase because of the air of mystery that surrounded them, but as they got more and more defined and their characters were explored and revealed old school fans of the setting grew to hate them.

Chaos Gods confirmed for just being GW execs.

Becaislly, you are saying that you hate the setting as it is.

The Chaos Gods are not organized as the mortal races. They are always infighting. However, by the will of the gods when the time is right and a chosen champion rises, Chaos unites. You know why? Because there is two things that unite all who walk beneath the shadow of the Chaos Gods. It's respect for power and fear of the Chaos Gods.

Even then the Chaos hordes are barely held together, only kept in line by the iron will of a single Warlord. If that warlord falls, then the hordes are broken.

>Becaislly, you are saying that you hate the setting as it is.

Yes, and? That's what the guy said.

Anyone have old in game pictures of high elves? Like pictures of them on tabletop from gw books or magazines

Doesn't Malekith wear a gold mask?

Maybe the light makes it look like he doesn't?

There's a lot of golden face masks going around in Warhammer.

Tell the chaos guy to stop being a fag or explain that going around so ambigously chaos oriented is a good way to get his hit pushed in as soo as he sets foot in a village larger than a few hovels

In my wfrp group there is a guy whose trait is an utter and complete hatred for chaos, taking any occasion to destroy or defile shrines and totems dedicated to the chaos gods. (He also bought a pick with the only goal to use it to destroy stone altars)

Now since i'm a dick GM i want the chaos gods to take offense. Any good way they can have him punished in a way that is not outright lethal or inescapable?

I also plan,since i'm a fair GM, to have his gods reward him for his efforts against chaos. Any way i could reward him that is not gamebreaking or overpowered?

He is an imperial from wissenland

Are there any cults of humans that worship spiders in the warhammer world like the forest goblins do? I would find it cool to maybe kitbash a Ragnarok spider with maybe some lotr haradrim Mumak riders.

Not that i know of, but you can do whatever you want man, it's not like every single cult is documented.

Nah, Chaos Gods have emotions.

>Use to be perceived in a more positive light by the fanbase because of the air of mystery that surrounded them, but as they got more and more defined and their characters were explored and revealed old school fans of the setting grew to hate them.

The character of the chaos god has been established in slaves to darkness and it's companion book, which i forgot the name of.
Which came out sometime in the 80s if I'm not mistaken.

So the comparison doesn't really work.

GW's management used to give a shit at one point. They are slowly moving back into the right direction though I think. Baby steps, but still...

>Any good way they can have him punished in a way that is not outright lethal or inescapable?
Chaos emissary disguised as his god's priest to mess with his faith? give him a mark of chaos in his body, forcing him to hide it (and looking overly suspicious in the process)? Nurgle's disease putting a timer on his life to complete x quest? possibilities are endless

>Any way i could reward him that is not gamebreaking or overpowered?
Fix the previous punishment and give him some specific buff against Chaos for his devotion

I've never played or read about fantasy, I bought some 20ish white lions to paint and maybe play, but Sigmar is bland. Move, roll this to win, and some small gimmicks sometime.
Is there a skirmish based mordheim like for high elves? Like gorkamorka and such with wounds and scars and skills and xp, like an rpg. Want to play these as I build up a force.
Also, what does a fluffy high elf army look like? How common are white lions? All I know is that they killed a white lion with bare hands and are bodyguards to their king.
Any canacucks know if there's still a scene in the GTA?

You mean The Lost and the Damned?

>Baby steps

I will only be satisfied if they either make a new (old) fantasy setting as a parallel game to AoS or they completely go bankrupt, whichever comes first

Yes! Thank you.

Yeah the changes come about a decade too late for me.
Kind of fell out of love with 40k over the years, so I turned to WHFB... Well...

Now I've made up my mind that I'm only gonna paint minis for fun. Never played much anyway.
It's nice to have a theme or background though. Gonna paint some minis in a similar color scheme for Frostgrave for example.

I'm the WFRP heavy houseruled 3e guy.

We are playing in "modern" empire, its just that in our timeline Morheim was still a bustling city. They were on their way there for job possibilities (and running because they killed a witch hunter to save a girl with a birthmark).

On the way there the comet hit, they saw it coming from far off. Decided to go and check it out. The comet was smallish, and only took out 15-20% of the city, counting fires and such. Long story short, they partnered with a shady wizard to harvest and sell the warpstone. The comet also unearthed the existence of an enormous underground ruin. The "chaos" of the situation meant that the people who were still in the city were living in a lawless state, ripe for adventure.

They acquired some real estate very cheap and accidentally opened a portal of chaos when miscasting with the worst roll possible on a large spell, during a skaven attack on their manor.

My players are not big time WH lore experts so everything is working nicely, and they are somehow managing to turn Mordheim into what it is commonly known to be like today, purely by happenstance.

SCOURGE AND PURGE

Chaos gotta hide or they gotta throw down.

It's clear that Mordheim is a cursed name.

Someone whould name a town like that IRL and see what happens

>found a group after several years of hiatus
>hit them up on some shitty Facebook page they use to arrange games
>a few are still using pre-endtimes 8th edition
>cool, while I never got to play it, I had read through the rules a few times, and I had my 8th edition army book that I never got to use.
>find a guy who wants to "teach me the game"
>keeps trying to explain the game, and tells me he'll teach me how 8th edition works
>OK

>game night
>he shows up 20 minutes late
>puts out his wood elf army
>not painted, just based green
>tells me he won't go easy on me, but would rather just go all out to show me how 8th edition is played
>quote: "I hope you don't take games too personal, because, really, if you are relying on characters, I'll pretty much win by default. This ain't the old Hero hammer anymore.
>I field Ogre Kingdom
>table him by turn 6, none of my characters died

I have never seen someone rage this hard before. I mean, I guess I should have known he'd be like this, but he threw a rage fit every time I used literally anything Ogre specific. Immune to poison on my butcher/slaughtermaster, healing from lore of the great maw, forcing him to reveal magic items because of a 5 point magic item, and those mournfang cavalry, Jesus christ. If he didn't break at least one model while throwing it in the cardboard box he transported his army in, he is a lucky bastard.

He practically killed his unit of sniper dudes by charging with them, because he figured they were pointless. Couldn't poison, and had to reroll succesful wounds on my slaughtermaster just made him throw a super fit, and made him call for a 5 minute smoke break.

I am kinda worried about getting back in the hobby because of this... even the 40k players aren't remotely close to this level of insanity, and they are much easier to find and arrange games with. Or is there just some armies that attract that kind of people?

Whoever was asking for proofs that normal dwarfs can't into magic?

Realms of Sorcery, p. 21.

>Elf army of any type.

Well, there you go, those armies tend to attract the high and mighty douchebags.

All lizard-things must Die-Die!

Grom the Paunch took and ruled the CIty of Nuln for some time until he decided (or was tricked) to invade the Elf Homeland. During that time he tried to rule the city as men did.

...

1ed or 2ed?

Would a wood elf allie with a high elf?

I tire of the belief that Warhammer Fantasy lore is not as deep as 40k. If anything, it has greater depth, but you must search for it in a library, as opposed to a 'google.'

The lazy children of this generation cannot understand the fevered mind of a researcher like Lovecraft, who would no doubt find the Electric Book of this age to be far stranger than any eldritch tome of his own imagining.

I present to you, the Seven Bindings of the Nehekharan Liche Priests, which all self-aware creatures possess, according to those same priests.

>Kha - The flesh, body, or corpse. The shell of Am.

>Ka - Ego, or abstract thought. Instinct.

>Ba - Subconscious self; Emotion (mistranslation?)

>Ab - Conscience or awareness of what is 'right' and 'wrong.' Not morality, for Ab also constitutes freedom of choice; the awareness of choice

>Sekhem - Life force. The 'powering fire' of life.

>Ren - The last and most desperate, the idea of 'self' or the knowledge of individual. Uniquely, the Nehekharans thought this was ones True Name, the universe's perception of that individual. This was the most vitally important Binding to those ancient people, for to destroy this would be to annihilate their memory after death and undo all that that individual had done.

>Khaibit - The physical shadow cast by mortals, proving they were mortal.

Thus the soul, or Akhu, was the combination of these Seven Bindings. Though its never said, Nagash likely found a way to keep his Ren ties to the world in some fashion, such that his 'individual' would never fade. How he did this is a mystery.

All undead in Warhammer Fantasy can be explained with this. For example, a zombie is Kha (The corpse), Kahibit (Meaning physical, not a ghost) and a bit of Sekhem (Magic) to implant simple commands in a brain, hence why zombies need a brain. Zombies are very simple, or the beginning necromancers tool. They take very little magic to animate and this explains why a weak necromancer cannot wights, for instance.

Interesting. I wonder what components make up Tomb Kings, animated constructs, vampires and wights based in this list

2nd.

...

Come get sssssome you fressssshhh sssssacrificesssss...!!!

Lmao WFB is just as shallow as 40k or AoS. It's your dudes vs. my dudes and good guys vs. evil guys everything else doesn't matter in the slightest and you could play the game without reading a single line of lore

That makes sense. 2nd Ed WFRP is a significantly different setting to 1ed.

Is there really any game you NEED to read the lore to play?

What's the Empire's best counter to a trio of these on a hill?

the overwhelming power of imperial artillery.

What if we removed the big 4 chaos gods and their factions and just made the orcs, undead, ogres, chaos dwarfs, skaven and the dark elves the major antagonist races? I think it's mich more interesting than always having chaos be behind everything

I have no qualms with vampires and orcs being the major antagonists.
But chaos, as little as you like them, are the corner stone of the settig, you can't get rid of it altogether

Tomb kings have all of these things, with the soul bound to a dead Kha. The liche priests discovered very early in their studies how to bind the soul to the decaying body. The problem they had was stopping the march of time on a weak mortal frame.

These priests actually took inspiration from daemon manifestations, a being composed of pure Akhu without a body, or Kha.

Thus they named the body of a daemon the Sahu, or the opposite of the Kha.

The problem the priests had was not binding the soul to the flesh, but giving the soul the ability to animate the flesh. They realized the Sahu of daemons was immortal, and incorruptible, so they sought to create them for their kings and lords. The result was horrible, immortal and implacable wills bound for eternity in eternal bodies.

This tells us that the physical forms of the tomb kings are not entirely 'physical.' Somehow, the priests made their corpse partly Sahu. This is why a tomb king will always reform when destroyed, and why Settra can stay awake forever, so much greater were the enchantments placed on his body. It's imperfect, fire can remove this immortality.

Thus a tomb king is all these things. Except his Kha is dead and he is, by necessity, bound to this world by magic, like the daemons that manifest here. Unlike those creatures, tomb kings can survive with no ambient magic, as they have the magic bound to their bodies (which are bound to the world). Daemons need to constantly absorb magic because they are not bound to the world. This also explains why daemon summoning are so damn dangerous, making a daemon bound to our world means it will eventually reform, one way or another, just like a tomb king.

So who was in the right, Caledor II or Gotrek Starbreaker?