/WMG/ Warmachine & Hordes General

interesting, ill have to give this a whirl when I get my hands on him. thanks for the explanation.

Who the fuck put that book link in op? It doesnt work at all. Somebody should change that shit prontoe.

Idk. He sends DK 15" thats about it

I was talking about his personal Assassination potential, 6 move, 3 on feat, 5 for the jump, and 6 for the harpoon. 20 inches of non liner movement for personal Assassination runs is pretty good, although if he fails it he's in a bad state, but I guess that's what the tough is for and maybe with a little luck he could hop his ass out of there but that's a big if.

JUSTICE FOR CRYX

last bump before bed.

What's he going to do now?

Caine3's a Cygnar-Merc Partisan caster now.

Has that been revealed for sure? He probably will be merc only. The next book is about the black 13th being sent to kill him, I don't see him interacting with the military favorably.

Hey all, my brother and I are trying to get into Warmahordes (and wargaming in general) and were wondering what boxes/models were the best place to start. We've played tabletop and card games before so we have a slight idea of tactics we like, but not what models to get. I really like the look of Cryxian models, and would love to have an army(?) centered around using, (and possibly reanimating) dead troops, while my brother seems to favor stuff like Boros (MtG) tactics, brute force, fire, lightning, bold rushes, etc. Would really appreciate your help WMG!

AMEN user, JUSTICE FOR THE CRYX

from the look of the preview Chapter A Thamar witch makes a pistol wraith copy of Caine and then the wraith commits a crime. I guess the Black 13th's on a mission to kill the wraith who they think is Cain

Bump

Probably shooting people.

The 2 player starter box doesn't seem like a bad start. The Stormguard are a bit shite, but that won't really matter until a lot later and the box is still a great bargain.

Yeah but the Scout General is trying his best to get Caine killed since he knows all the shit Rebald has pulled over the years. I don't see Caine working with the regular military until that situation is taken care of. The wraith is just a convenient excuse to dispatch the death squad

I really wonder if Rebald is willing to poke that nest though.

I mean, Caine had him dead to rights, and he let him go, and he knows Caine didn't tell anyone shit afterwards as well.

Why fuck with a what might be the single most deadly assassin in the setting?

> single most deadly assassin in the setting
> not Rhyas

"might be"

And I wouldn't call Rhyas an assassin. If he was going to compete with anyone, it'd be a couple of the Ret characters.

Fluff-wise, it probably is Caine. Outside the game, hus teleporting shenanigans isn't linited to once per turn, and doesn't stop him from doing stuff, and his gunplay is way more potent and varied than the cards give him credit for.

>I mean, Caine had him dead to rights, and he let him go, and he knows Caine didn't tell anyone shit afterwards as well.
I thought that was Magnus, or is that from the books?

Blood of Kings.

Caine decides to not kill Julius in the end, and when Rebald finds out, he's super pissed and tries to have Caine killed.

It doesn't stick, of course, and Caine ends up confronting him after the fact, considers killing Rebald, decides against it, simply quits the military instead, and leaves.

Julius knows Rebald tried to have him killed, but doesn't know the sheer extent of the shit Rebald did. Caine absolutely does, and if he ever talked, Rebald would be mighty fucked, since Julius is hardly the first politically inconvenient person he's had Caine murder.

So he has every reason to want Caine dead, but he's also got every reason to leave Caine well alone.

Fluff-wise she's a dragon-killer. I'm not saying that she's the most deadly assassin - it's a tight spot to compete - but naming Caine as one isn't right too.

Best assassin doesn't mean best fighter, man.

Fluff-wise, she's a wannabe. Only one dragon-killer walks Immoren and that's pic related.

If you increase the rhinodon's tail's rng to 2, and it's armor to 18, then change the cyclops savage's animus to Rage, how would this affect skorne?

I guess people would use the savage then

>Only one dragon-killer walks Immoren and that's pic related.

Is the Ravagore he's standing on one of the ones that took down Pyromalfic? Because Venny ain't killed shit.

I know where my money are.

Rhinodon would still be pillow-fisted and not bring anything needed to skorne lists.
And rage seems kinda wasted on a light with only one initial attack, not to mention it's not likely since Skrone already have paingivers.

Str of attacks isn't really a weakness of the faction. And the rhinodon is a model that doesn't seem to have a place. Thresher is neato, but not something we're hurting for, especially when pretty much every heavy in the faction has 3 initials. I guess the rhinodon had armor piercing in mk1? That would be interesting, I still think I'd prefer a gladiator though. I guess it's supposed to sit in front of an agonizer at arm 21 with spiny growth up.

I think something that would really help Skorne is harmonious exaltation. All of a sudden hexy gets a free boost, xerxes 2 can cast mobility, xerxes1 can cast rift, makedas can use their army buffs and still camp/stay death.

It would be really interesting as an animus on a construct warbeast. We have enough support solos with buffs on a stick as it is, and support bloat in general.

>Str of attacks isn't really a weakness of the faction
Yes and no. While and Enraged elephant can kill basically anything it wants to, Rage in the faction would allow you to stop using heavies and actually get some use out of cheaper lights. Under Naaresh's feat, a Savage would be P+S21. That's sort of insane for 8 points.

>construct warbeast
>Skorne
It'd be pretty cool if Molik Karn or Tibbers got iced and had their soul put in a construct. Probably better if it happened to Karn since I imagine he's far more intelligent than Tibbers.

Does anyone have Immortality?

Mordikaar has brought himself back from the dead once, so yeah sort of. But right now he's inside the Wurm's stomach so it remains to be seen if he can bullshit his way out of that one.

Zaal died but managed to seal his soul inside a sacral stone which was put inside a warrior construct, so now I guess he's sort of immortal because he's a golem that doesn't really age.

Cryx don't reanimate best in this edition, that honor goes to religious zealots of the high reclaimer and his epic form Testament. Cryx still reanimimate decently, though. Convergence is the third reanimation faction. If you like the look of Cryx, go for it.

I'd equate Boros with the alpha strike strategy in Warmachine. I think Retribution is probably the faction with the strongest alpha strike; I'm looking at Ossyan in particular. In second, I'd go with Lylyth3 in Legion or Kara Sloan in Cygnar.

Sorry if I was unclear, I was talking about this:
privateerpress.com/iron-kingdoms/core-products/immortality
But thanks anyway.

Thanks for that! What Cryx models do best at reanimation/gaining strength from the dead? I really appreciate the help.

That's sort of what I was thinking. With Rage in faction and the PGBH, even the 12 point heavies hit at P+S 19. It means that any beast can be your counterpunch beast. And it doesn't hurt too much other stuff. There are no warbeasts with thrown weapons to worry about. Rush and enrage are mutually exclusive outside of the savage, so natively high P+S beasts have their place.

The Rhinodon, though: sure, MAT 6 isn't great. It's the low side of average. In a world where it has a 2" thresher attack at 16 (with PGBH) or 19 (PGBH and Rage), and able to sit at ARM 20, for 12 points, can the Rhinodon still be considered bad?

I may catch some flack for this but I like the Necrosurgeon and Mechanithralls for this. the thralls die in droves and don't hit super hard unless the army is debuffed or thralls buffed, but their one of the easiest to bring back. anytime a thrall or a living model dies around her and her helpers the surgeon gets a corpse token(up to five at a time) and on her turn can bring up to 3 of them back. giving the army survivability, a screen for you jacks/more valuable troops and if enough get to the front lines they can do work either from their attacks or a combostrike. their cheap for their points cost as well

It would let Makeda1 polish turds like no other. You've got all of these high POW, low point cost beasts that all have MAT6. Then she drops the bass and everything is MAT8 with shield guard because #YOLO.

That's a Carnivean, Ravagores didn't even exist when the Cryx book came out.

Getting Rage or Primal in Skorne would open it up a lot... although it does feel like the factions are starting to feel pretty same-y at that point (what with trolls and minions also having both now)...

Maybe a new damage buff animus unique to Skorne? Something fluffy like - get a big bonus to MAT and/or STR and/or SPD, whatever and take one damage to each aspect, or something like that, along the lines of Morg1's beast buff. Sort of an alternate primal, reward + risk type setup.

>New Cyclops Savage animus: "MUH HOKSUKE"
>Cost 1
>Target friendly faction warbeast gains +1STR, +1MAT, and +1SPD until end of turn

I don't like the idea of Primal in Skorne. What with the PGBH and the bronzeback removing fury as well as the theme of strict marshal discipline.

Having a new warlock, or changing an existing one, including some sort of redline type spell would be neat and fluffy, but for it to on a beast... i don't know.

That sounds pretty good, haha.

I'd say Scaverous is a good answer. He is pretty focused on gathering souls with an AOE he can put out to gather souls with, an upkeep he can put on a unit to gather souls when that unit kills a living model, and a character Jack that gathers souls for him when it kills. He can use the souls to force rerolls on any model in his control area, friendly our enemy.
He also mechanithralls quite well since he has the threat range extension of moving enemy models 2 inches that will allow them to get into combat, the dice fixing to make their numerous bad attacks into numerous good attacks, and he almost always takes Croe's Cutthroats, living models that can be recycled into stream zombies when they die.

There are other good answers, but Scaverous is a boss right now.

I actually kinda like the Redline model... Cost 2, Rng 6 = beast gets +2 STR, +2 SPD, take d6 damage at the end of activation. It gives you the damage buff and brings back a little bit of that Molik Missile action, at a cost.

>Having a new warlock, or changing an existing one, including some sort of redline type spell
Unfortunately, a single warlock wouldn't cut it. Skorne needs something that provides some extra oomph across the faction, not just to a single list.

>Skorne was envisioned as a combined arms faction, so some heavies, some heavy infantry, and some normal infantry
>Our normal infantry is still unplayable
>Our heavy infantry got multiple nerfs to bring it down from mediocre to bad
>Our heavies are the only thing playable

All my lists look like Mk2 Rasheth tier lists.

That's bullshit. Karax and Blood Runners are some of the best line infantry in the game. Hold the line with your exceptionally cheap and durable infantry while hitting them with your excellent combat solos like rhadeim and master tormentors. Simultaneously collect their souls with extollers/AGs to hit back with boosted attacks. Skorne can have a whole game plan without any beast involvement.

Cataphracts are trash, though.

>Blood Runners
9 points for 6 guys is only par for the course. They go in, hope their MAT7 is enough, then die. CMA is an actual waste of an ability. DEF14 really isn't all that much. And Karax are very overrated. It's a tarpit that stands zero chance of actually doing anything more than being a tarpit. Ironfang Pikemen laugh at them. Like seriously MAT5 what the actual fuck? MAT5 is reserved for shooting models.

>Cataphracts are trash
Because you aren't playing Xerxis1 enough.

It would mean the Savage would get put into every list.

I have heard HR called the new Ghaspy2 and that person is definitely not entirely wrong.

>The Rhinodon, though: sure, MAT 6 isn't great. It's the low side of average. In a world where it has a 2" thresher attack at 16 (with PGBH) or 19 (PGBH and Rage), and able to sit at ARM 20, for 12 points, can the Rhinodon still be considered bad?
Is that the same world in which I can get my Gladiator to P+S21? Then yes.

So, thoughts on the Judicator? Is it any good now? Was thinking of using one to anchor my amon list since he can hide behind it, the Judicator is focus efficient, gives the list a little shooting, and it is immune to most control effects. Mobility and Synergy on a colossal seems good.

Basic plan is to then pair that list with a High Reclaimer dudespam list. Thoughts?

>Ironfang Pikemen laugh at Karax.
IFP cost 4 points more than Karax, not counting the IFP UA which is almost always taken. In actual practice, IFP are almost 50% more expensive (12 for 19 vs. 10 for 11).

That's like saying "Tibbers is better than a Gladiator", and just completely ignoring points cost... you can't discuss any stat or ability outside the context of points cost. A point or two one way or the other is often what makes the difference between an unplayable unit and a gamebreaking one.

Thanks. Are there any Cryx models (or units in general) that are adept at both animating their own troops as well as reanimating fallen enemy soldiers and using their strength against the opponent?

HR? Sorry still trying to learn

Oh. High Reclaimer. A Protectorate caster with clouds and a crazy recursion feat.

How come? I just wanna play him ALOT and that is why asking.

Blackbane's Ghost Raiders and Revenant Crew of the Atramentous

a bunch of casters have a spell called Excarnate which allows you to bring a friendly grunt back if you kill something with it.

There's Blackbane's Ghost Raiders, a character unit which turns every living enemy they kill into another ghost raider. They lose the ability if the officer dies.

Captain Rengrave turns living enemy troops he kills into Revenant Crew grunts, aka zombie pirates. The Revenant Cannon Crew does the same thing but zombie pirates aren't popular to begin with and the cannon in particular is one of the worst designed units in the entire game.

Bane Lord Tartarus turns his victims into Banes, which are weird skeleton warriors in skirts.

Sadly the best unit at this sort of thing is probably the mercenary unit Press Gangers

>(Mordikaar 1) Void Seer Mordikaar [+29]
- Despoiler [18]
- Bronzeback Titan [18]
- Titan Cannoneer [17]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
- Agonizer [7]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Void Spirit [4]
Void Spirit [4]

>Here's a table of elephants you need to crack to win, and your infantry is moot because I have Void Spirits

Mordikaar does nothing for titans except give them an insulting +3DEF on feat turn after they got -2DEF this edition, but 5 heavies should be able to contend with whatever my opponent has, and he can give them all Ghostly to take pressure off Rush and let me waltz into back arcs .Killing Spree Void Spirits are obviously good against any infantry blobs, or can even surprise a heavy with a hook to the gabber since they're MAT9.5/P+S26 against living models on the charge. Other fun things to do are:

>Snipe on Mordikaar's very respectable gun
>Reviving Beast Handlers

I really wanna try this against the local Khador player. The only jack he brings is Behemoth, the rest is infantry that my Void Sprits would actually decimate.

Then go ahead. He's strong and he's fun.

Well i want to run him with 2xCinerators and 2xZealots with UA and a couple of lights to bring some ranged game, thought i am pretty uncertain if i should actually use zappy spells or simply sacrifice dudes and use Hand of Fate.

I wouldn't start the game by doubling down on units. Start small and get singles of things.

as the others have said there's the ghost raiders which as far as the as the "reanimating fallen enemy soldiers" shitick goes I like them the best. their attacks set people on fire, and there incorporeal meaning they can move through terrain, enemy models, your models and cant be hurt by anything other than spells or magic weapons, watch out though if the officer goes down no more reanimations. plus their flaming pirate ghosts created from the breath of a dragon god that burnt them so bad he incinerated their bodys and damned their souls to his service for all eternity which is cool as shit.

>Sadly the best unit at this sort of thing is probably the mercenary unit Press Gangers

Cephalyx Mind Slaver

Does the Warmachine module in Vassal normally take forever to load? Is it a first time thing?

Are there any Warjacks an aspiring necromancer should look into adding to their army? What are some good Cryx warjacks in general?

Nightmare, Deathjack, Slayer, Seether

What about Sepulcher? Isn't he supposed to be amazing at spitting out undead?

In general, the best Cryx jacks are the characters. It depends on the caster you're using, but Deathjack, Erebus, Barathrum, Malice, Cankerworm, Nightmare, they all have their place.

Probably gonna want an arc node or two, generally just the cheap Deathripper is fine unless you've got a specific plan in mind for another type.

Slayer, Seether, Stalker, Inflictor, Harrower. That's my personal list of non-character, non-arc node go tos. Some people will say Reaper, but it doesn't really do it for me personally.

Krakens are also good, but I don't really feel comfortable recommending that sort of investment to someone just starting.

>100 pts
>Venethrax + Mortenebra
>1 unit of sac fodder mechanithralls
>everything else is Deathrippers
>EVERYTHING

What are arc nodes?

as a cryx player your best friend. its a device that allows you to channel spells cast by its controlling Warcaster.its a range extender for spells and the good news is that cryx has a shit ton of them and their all cheap to field points wise.they also break easy...

I don't think spd4 heavies are gonna waltz into back arcs

When you cast a spell, you normally measure the range from your Warcaster. If your Warcaster has a Warjack with an Arc Node, you can measure range from the Arc Node instead.

That thing that suddenly gives that Chimera a AOE5, pow 15 blast.

What does this army combination achieve exactly?

hilarity.

Where does one get MK3 rules for the Retribution of Scyrah faction even?

War room, or the MkIII deck.

>So, thoughts on the Judicator? Is it any good now?

It's better and worse than before. Future Sight is definitely a very good ability on a model with so many blast damage rolls being made each turn. The Judicator excels at clearing infantry though, and since infantry are being used less across the board, it's stock has fallen while the Revelator only gets more valuable. I could potentially see one being used with pKreoss to knock down battlegroup heavy lists and then hammer them with a barrage of rockets, but other than that it's hard to take Judi over redeemers, more heavies or the Revelator(once it's out).

Well i already own them anyway (were coming in a 2 for 1 price).

The core book has the fundamentals, but you could easily pick up the faction deck if you wanted to have a look at everything.

In fluff the best assassins are likely one of these people
Garryth
Narn
Eiryss
Caine

My money is on Narn. Garryth is too bloodthirsty and relies on his arcane arts. I think a piece of fluff said Eiryss hasn't caught up to Narn. Caine just doesn't seem to have the kind of crazy covert ops training the Mage Hunters endure. Narn meanwhile has lived a very long time without getting killed or maimed in a very dangerous field.

The salt is real.

Can I send a Skarlock?

Sloane has a better killing method than all of them, and can do stealth extremely well.

>"Hey guys here's the best assassins in the fluff"
And you completely missed the guy whose title is Lord Assassin.

It's hard to call Morg a real assassin, given that in fluff he was mostly a spy/torturer.

Like, when has he ever actually assassinated someone?