In a world truly fallen to lawful evil, can there still be true justice?

This is true

He is right.
But that doesn't mean he's correct.

Justice of order will be upheld, no matter how evil they are if they are truly lawful.

...

No, they are destined to fail because people want to show off how cool and unique their setting is by making it "Grimderp Mc-LifeSucks". What they don't realize is that a purely Grim and Purely dark world is shit and un-investing. Noble Dark true master setting theme.

A broken clock is right twice a day. I'm sure of all the people to get fucked over some of them will deserve it.

Justice is everyone getting what they deserve.
Justice is every good deed being rewarded.
Justice is every punishment fitting its crime.
Justice is every victim being taken care of.
Justice is every wrong being righted.
Justice is might chained to right
Justice is light guiding right
Justice is beauty.
Justice is fair.
Justice Is.

so if evil is won, there can be NO justice.

THERE IS NO JUSTICE FOR THE DEAD!! THERE CAN BE ONLY VENGEANCE!!

And once it's right it fucks up 43-thousand times in a row

>THERE IS NO JUSTICE

If the world is still dominated by Mortals (or other beings who are capable of changing their Alignment), you can still find Justice in such a place.

It will lack refinement. It will be personal, and likely brutal, but there will always be those who will seek restitution even if it means stepping outside the system. No matter how absolute an authority, there will always be some who are pressed into a corner and see no recourse but to fight, heedless of consequence because the cost of staying silent is no better.

Even if there are no Heroes, the pursuit of Justice has inspired many to do unspeakable things.

Of course, if you’re an Outsider in a Plane designed to exemplify Tyranny, you’re probably fucked. The very fabric of reality (and, indeed, your own body) are working against you. Still, it’s not as though the Devils are exactly suffering under oppression, it’s just part of what they are.

No the entire point was that they were illogical but existent and important.

Traitors, Failures, FOES

>Using DnD shitty morality system
Really, nigga?

>In a world truly fallen to lawful evil,
You mean reality?
> real life is too boring to have truly fallen to evil
>too boring
Lawful evil was, is and always will be boring.
Corrupt lawyers, bureaucrats and politicians rule this world, not Saturday morning cartoon villains.

If justice is everyone getting what they deserve, wouldn't Death be unjust? Forget abortion - how many babies are stillborn? How many robbed of their chance to ever leave the womb by a miscarriage?

And what of those who face less suffering than they deserve, even if they're merely apathetic - or those who face far more than they ought to? Is Fate unjust?

And what of the storm, the quake, the volcano? How many of their victims deserved it? Is Nature, then, unjust?

Is Justice at odds with the law of reality, rather than in harmony with it? Because by that definition, it seems like it is.

Well you two are just rays of sunshine aren't you?

No, I love a grimdark world.

Dude, it's a perfect excuse to have fun. You can cut loose. You can loot, kill, plunder, rape - And it's all perfectly justified, because the world is such fucking shit, you can't be worse than anyone within it.

Don't play a contrarian, just embrace it! Play a desperate, greed-crazed looter like in OSR. It's incredible fun.

...

Not sure if Egoist or Anarcho-primitivist.

Either way fuck you.

It's a game. You don't have to limit yourself for thinking 'bad thoughts', the same way you don't play as the same guy every time. Everyone needs to try something different now and then.

I find it really liberating.

Mostly I'm just curious. Notice I only referred to Justice being possibly at odds with things that are beyond the control of any being with moral agency.

If Justice is natural, but Nature does not act justly, what does Justice mean?

I just want some answers. I didn't expect to ask the wrong question.

Well sure it's great for being a CE dick-ass thief, but really that's ALL you can be in the land of Grimderpia. And if what I wanted wasn't a narrative experience but a physcotic wonderland with a bunch of random numbers, I'd just be play Borderlands or GTA.

True evil can only exist when good men do nothing. Strive to be the best and just man you can be and lead by example.

tell me, is there true justice in the modern world? no? think about it a little and get back to me.

But is it possible for Good men to do nothing? After all, were they Good, would they not act. had they the power?

>bad "guy"

wat

Being morally right and being factually correct are two different things.

I'm frazzled

>some retard on the internet lectures a person about what an anime thought him about justice.

Pffft. These images never stop being funny.

Only if good people step up and take the power back

>If Justice is natural
It isn't. Despite how badly humanity wants for the concept of Justice to be natural, it isn't.

Vengeance, however, is natural. People often confuse these two concepts which are somewhat similar in execution, yet drastically different in underlying principles.

Justice, yes. But justice without goodness tends to turn into cruelty.

Your point is dependent on the perception of death as a Bad thing. But is it? Death isn't good or bad, it just is.

Cute is Justice.

Justice requires the authority to mete it out, so if the world is entirely fallen to evil, not really, no.

You'll know what is just but you'll have no power to actually apply it to the world.

No. justice is if Evil has won.
Justice sees punishment before forgivness
Jusice fosters revenge over healing
Justice is every time someone dies when doing so will help no one live.
Justice is as arbitrary as the law
Justice commands us to demand recompence from the bankrupt, until the world is a worse place.
Justice makes the enemy who could be my friend stay my enemy.

the world where we uphold justice over all else is an empty world. Let the one who has not sinned throw the first stone is a timeless, even beyond its own religion, phrase. It invites us to remember that we are all dirty, and that the only way to be clean is not through violence.

>Justice isn't natural

No fucking shit. But in case you haven't noticed, we've been flying in the face of the natural order for a while now.

We have cars and planes and robotic limbs. Medication for illnesses and all kinds of advanced medicinal care. We've raised the average life expectancy of the human body. We've killed natural selection as a process applied to human. We have created both good and evil outside the sphere of nature as it takes its course.

If there is no natural good or justice in this world, then fine. What is stopping us from creating it? Just because something has always been, does not mean it must always be.

I'm kind of rambling here, but I think my point here is evident. Humans are the source of morality, so asking if nature is just is kind of silly, considering we can only apply justice and morality to fellow humans. Nature itself just kind of happens.

Nothing is stopping us from creating it. Nothing is stopping us from worshiping it, and nothing is stopping us from deciding it is natural anyway and worst of all, there is nothing stopping us from deciding our arbitrary standards for it are to be applied across the whole of the universe.

People are right to remind the fervant the shakyness of their foundation. The hope is not that they will not build a house, but that they wont build it too high.

A more horrifying thought, and the biggest argument against intelligent design being compatible with christian ethics, is the notion that nature is enforcing justice.

That the hornets kill bee hives out of nature's sense of justice.
That the cancer kills your mom because nature felt she deserved it.
That every pain and ache you acquire as you age is the result of a sin nature deemed you to have committed.

...and that's why druids aren't allowed inside court houses.