D&D 4e General /4eg/

Elemental Initiate theme, mostly.

Radiant damage in general

Even beyond the good old radiant mafia set up, I just love the concept of damage via searing light

Yeah, easy, take the Eternal Seeker Epic Destiny to grab Giant's Might at level 22

The great thing about epic powers is that literally any class can take any power via the Eternal Seeker ED

Wasn't polearm momentum errata'd to only work on weapon attacks?

Feat still just says "polearm attack" on the builder so I guess not

Hybriding fighter with just about everything.

Hybriding paladin with just about everything
Or any hybrids at all really, even vampire
I think I have a problem

Anything that uses strength hybrids well with fighter

Barbarian/fighter is pretty much flat superior to O-barbarian. Ranger/fighter is better than O-ranger if you want to use off-hand weapons. Even Seeker/Fighter makes a really annoying ranged-defender

Only marking on half your powers is a significant problem if you want to operate as a defender

It's actually pretty easy to find new ways to mark.

>Even Seeker/Fighter makes a really annoying ranged-defender
How would you punish though?

I guess some of those PPs with generic mark punishment damage (Warfiend, Avernian Knight) could work.
What I'd expect a Fighter|Seeker to do is grab Deft Hurler, and start Cleaving enemies in the face up close while using Seeker RBAs on someone else.

I'd argue mixing seeker with paladin or warden would result in a better ranged defender. Wouldn't have much trouble marking and can punish at range without needing specialized pps

>I'd argue mixing seeker with paladin or warden would result in a better ranged defender. Wouldn't have much trouble marking and can punish at range without needing specialized pps

However, they couldn't abuse Cleave with Deft Hurler getting you two attacks.

I was thinking of making a WIS/DEX watcher spirit shaman. Probably an elf.

What multiclass, feats, etc. options should I look into to make it more efficient and functional?

Also, is there a way to make a bow a primal implement? I thought Moonbow Dedicate allowed it, but apparently it's only for arcane and divine powers.

Multiclass Monk for implement proficiency with all weapons you're proficient with.

Wardens only punish up close, too, don't they? But the main issue, like said, is that they don't have as much synergy in using their abilities.

Shoot spears out of it.

...

You are probably best off getting ki focus from somewhere.

There's a bunch of ways to get marking on more things

Although for Ranger/Fighter hybrids, you aren't really a defender at all, you're a striker who can mark sometimes

Wardens have two punishments, one with melee weapon range and another that's close burst 5. The latter is a reaction and doesn't do damage, but drags the target closer and hopefully into one of the warden's zones

I did once make a pretty good ranger|warden defender. That hunting spear feat is pretty shit but opens up a PP that lets you mark anything set as your quarry. I imagine it could be easily adapted to ranger|fighter

Yes, but tempest technique is basically a striker class feature

It's not that you can't make a ranger/fighter defender, it's that ranger/fighter strikers are better

funin.space/compendium/feat/Opportunistic-Archer.html

How do I use this?

You could combine it with

funin.space/compendium/paragonpath/Sharpshooter.html

But I still can't find anything that'd let you actually use a bow for fighter powers.

Killing your marks is probably the best way to defend. If you could somehow turn a ranger attack into an MBA for combat challenge it would be glorious

You'd have to ignore them/swap them out for ranged powers from another class

Funny you say...

Opportunistic Archer () lets you use an RBA instead of an MBA on Combat Challenge, and Rangers actually DO have a "can be used as RBA" at-will in the form of funin.space/compendium/power/Fading-Strike.html

Goad of Blood, level 25 fighter stance power

Use at-wills or encounter powers instead of basic attacks.

Still, a defender wants to hit reasonably hard for the sake of punishment, but it's more important that you can survive what your foes can throw at you and keep them locked down. A ranger/fighter as a party's only defender is going to have a rough time compared to a pure fighter

If you went with fighter armor proficiency for hybrid talent and go weapon and shield, defense won't be that much of an issue. Alternatively, you can go tempest, get spiked shield proficiency and end up with like one point less AC. HP will be a bitch though.

The real problem is that all you get from being a hybrid ranger is more damage, which fighters don't reallly need

But rangers get a shit ton of flexibility from the fighter side, and tempest technique, and a bunch of powers that are basically striker powers

Disruptive strike is a good defender power rangers get. You can use it in place of combat challenge and slap on a larger penalty to the attack, or you can reserve it for when it attacks you to set up a nasty catch-22 for your mark.

Hmm, true, but the thing is, a fighter multiclassed into ranger with the novice power feat is better at using disruptive strike than a fighter/ranger hybrid is, because the fighter/ranger hybrid doesn't mark with it, whereas the fighter multiclassed into ranger can use it to punish something it hasn't marked, and put a mark on it before it can attack the fighter's ally

Either way it achieves the job of ranger contributing to the fighter's defending capacity.

There's also stuff like invigorating stride and ranger's parry that adds to a defender's survivability.

And there's also all the daze/stun effects rangers dish out with their dailies

And more still are the at-will slowing effects you can attach to hunter's quarry with the hobbling strike feat.

There's tons a ranger can contribute to a fighter's defendering. The biggest problem is just getting a sustained mark, and as the above posts said that can be gotten with a little extra effort from themes and paragon paths

>lose HP by hybriding ranger
>lose basic attack marking by hybriding ranger
>can only choose one of armor proficiency, combat superiority or a fighter talent because hybrid talent feat
Fuck that.

Can't have it all bruh. Just kill 'em dead faster and you won't have to worry about it.

Or just be a striker

Fighters have a lot of powers that hit really hard, and hunter's quarry is never really that important to rangers. You have ranger armor proficiency by default, and prime shot is rarely, if ever, used by melee rangers, and, well, with shock trooper just sitting there, even two-blade style is unnecessary.

Leave the defendering to someone else, maybe pitch in and do a bit of marking if the party wizard is threatened, but for the most part, you're far more useful if you stick to damage-dealing

I really don't see the usefulness of marking without access to a punishment. -2's never stopped monsters from wailing on the wizard in my games, but a couple smacks to the face for trying have. Just giving a ranger marking without combat challenge to go with it strikes me as pointless

But you have combat challenge, combat challenge is the inherent thing fighters bring to a hybrid, so you can mark punish

Or use the vigilante theme

Or any of the other options for marks.

>Or just be a striker
Is Veeky Forums extra-retarded today?

I thought you were arguing against hybriding ranger|fighter and saying to just go with one or the other

My point was that a ranger/fighter should be a striker build

That was my point from the very beginning, I didn't mean "just play a pure striker class", I meant "Play a ranger/fighter hybrid as a striker"

There are better strikers, hybrid or not. Ones that won't interfere with the actual defender's job because of marks.

Once per encounter battle awareness is good enough, especially since that doesn't need a mark.

I was saying you can be equally both. If you want to be even more strikery you might as well just drop the fighter half and be pure ranger

Isn't that one of the the points of hybrid builds? To be able to equally balance multiple party roles instead of clearly favoring one over the other like single classes?

>points of hybrid builds
The point is to cherry pick options, both during building and in combat.

What? No, where did you get that from?

Ranger/Fighter hybrids are great strikers. Fighters have a bunch of great two-weapon powers, tempest technique is the best thing for a ranger to have, and shock trooper is a brilliant striker paragon path inexplicably tied to a defender class. Which you can take and use your multiclass feat for something else, like grabbing an encounter long damage buff once per day, or getting an off-hand, 1d8, +3 proficiency weapon and ki focus proficiency

The problem is trying to play fighter/ranger hybrids as defenders, which they can sort of do, but if you're doing that, you quickly run into the problem of "why aren't I just playing a pure fighter".

Combat Challenge is a choice

>Every time you attack an enemy with your fighter powers or your fighter paragon path powers, whether the attack hits or misses, you can choose to mark that target.

Just because you can mark, doesn't mean you have to

You said "just be a striker", and if you want to just be a striker, why hybrid fighter at all? Ranger two weapon attacks are still better than any fighters get and shock trooper opens up with just a multiclass feat. There's no reason to really want to keep your MC open for anything else; fighter has access to all the feats a ranger could want that it doesn't already get. You really don't get much at all from ful on hybriding fighter if you want to be a better striker.

If you're not going to mark, then you can't use combat challenge. If you can't use combat challenge, then why are you a fighter?
Options that conflict with each other are not good options. When you hybrid, you want options that you can use when you normally can't do anything else. In this case, battle awareness is good enough.

The point of hybrids is to build crazy shit that can do weird things.

Like hybriding rogue/assassin, then multiclassing into warlock and taking hybrid talent:cunning sneak and the cursed shadow feat, which gives you the shadow walk class feature, thus giving you permastealth by level 4 (level 2 if you're human)

Well I did say "one of", because the other point is crazy shit like that. Pretty sure the developers meant for it to be a way to balance class roles, and crazy shit like hellish rebuking pallylocks and infinitely hidden cunning assassinlocks were a pleasant side effect.

You get a bunch of damn good stances, and god damn tempest technique

Tempest technique is amazing, it's +1 AC and reflex, +1 accuracy, and +2 damage from just one feat

Also you can multiclass into something other than fighter and still access fighter PPs and EDs

It also locks you into offhand weapons and denies you prime punisher in paragon. The defense bonus is just the two-weapon defense feat you can get anyway, and in exchange you get two-weapon fighting as a bonus feat for extra damage. I would think overall you break even.

two-blade rangers get toughness as a bonus feat, not two-weapon fighting, they still need to take two-weapon fighting

Also, even if it does break even, it's still at least as good as getting three feats for the price of one.

>It also locks you into offhand weapons

So? Shortswords are great anyways because they get light blade feat support.

Ranger|Fighter is a good striker with good toughness and an option to be a secondary defender. Blade Dancer is a pretty cool paragon path for it too, though Shock Trooper is good for even more offense.

Paladin|Warlock is rad as heck.

Virtuous Strike/Starfire Womb/Hero's Poise is a cool mini-combo.
And then you just get to stack catch 22's with all the warlock's "don't hit me" powers with the paladin's "don't hit my friends" powers.

funin.space/compendium/paragonpath/Tiefling-Warfiend.html

This'd actually be really cool on a Tiefling Paladin, using divine sanction to spread around a lot of marks on everyone and adding another source of damage punishment on top.

Does the level 16 feature count the attack from battle awareness?

Probably not. There's no indication it "counts as" combat challenge.

Could go fighter | paladin.

funin.space/compendium/item/Wraithblade.html

Can this let hybrid rogues activate sneak attack on, say, ranger class powers?

Even if it works, the item is kinda crap for hybrids. And I doubt it works.

That's a good question. I would say so since it's so specific about overriding normal use restrictions, but I feel like it was made with just MC rogues in mind and not hybrids

An avenger hybrid could be interesting with it.

Or possibly a crit-fisher sorcerer.

No, there are better, cheaper crit weapons. Bloodiron.

I think it works. But is probably the more important bit.

It kinda sucks regardless.

Warlocks are generally fucking rad.
Gotta love their dailies.

I look back on Vestige Pact Warlock fondly.

Especially after I dual pacted into Sorcerer-King Pact for that feat that adds a die of radiant damage to your Curse dice.

>adds a die of radiant damage
You mean psychic? Mindbite scorn adds psychic damage.

Psychic right, that was it.

Radiant would be quite a bit better tbf.

Finally got the character builder back up and running and remembered why I loved epic level Warlocks so much.

>Curse damage bumped up to d8 with a feat
>Twofold pact into Sorcerer-King pact
>Pick up Mindbite Scorn to add an extra d8 of curse dice and make your Curse deal some psychic damage
>Vile Resonance stance to add 2 extra d8s to curse dice in return for Vulnerable 5(All)
>Rod of Brutality to reroll any dice that come up 1 or 2
>Gloves of Admixture to make non-Mindbite Curse Dice deal Fire, Cold, or Acid damage
>Cursed Spells feat to add my INT modifier to Curse Dice

Any given fight a day I could be throwing out 6d8s(Brutality 2)+7 damage on my curse dice(dealing psychic and Fire/Ice/Acid damage) per hit, extra if I popped the Gloves of Admixture power to throw extra d6s into there, even before how much damage the attack that actually triggered it does.

>Use Command of Execution to have 2 allies make an attack, then spend Fell Might to add that Curse Dice to each otheir attacks.
>Just rolling ALL of the dice.

reading back through the items also reminded of one semi-cheesy Warlock combo I noticed.

>Destiny Inversion: When hit, instead of taking damage, take nothing and give yourself Ongoing damage equal to half the original damage.
>Feyweave Armor of Sudden Recovery: End any Ongoing damage and give yourself Regeneration equal to the Ongoing damage until End of Encounter.
Still have to take one tick of it, but still came in handy during a lengthy fight where I ate a pretty nasty critical hit and ended up with Regen ~45 for the rest of the fight.

Fuck I miss that campaign.

Looking to be a Slayer. Is there a way I can grab a Barbarian At-Will? Had my eye on Devastating Strike I think it's called. Whatever adds 1d8 to the damage

Also, why isn't Slayer an option for hybrids in the offline builder?

The only way for a slayer to grab an at-will from another class is to be a half-elf

Which is problematic, because half elves have neither strength nor dexterity as bonus stats

Well at least I know it's possible. >tfwI'm a Gnoll

Thanks anyways

Half elf slayers are actually good (post-level 11, you need versatile master to function as a half-elf slayer)

The usual way to do it is to take eldritch strike and go for charge optimization

Does a druid drop their shield when they shift into beast form, because it's something they're holding, or does it meld into them because it's equipment?
I want to incorporate beast form into a polearm momentum/hindering shield caster druid but if they're always going to be dropping the shield when they shift that won't really work.
Would the weretheme once they're level 10 fix the issue?

It melds into them, but they can't use it

The explicit wording on wildshape is
> Your equipment becomes part of your beast form, but you drop anything you are holding, except implements you can use. You continue to gain the benefits of the equipment you wear, except a shield.

So the shield melds into you, but you get no "benefit" from it, which means it can't be used with feats that require you to be using or holding a shield

Thanks. I didn't know if it counted more as equipment or as something I was holding, since later on it specifically mentions stuff about implements, the other thing they'd be holding.

Slowing isn't that important against the ranged enemies I'd be locking down with beast form moves, so I don't mind not having hindering shield on those attacks.

There's also paragon multiclassing, but the investment is rarely worth it

Warlocks are objectively the most fun class.

>not a leader

Sorry, but that's wrong.

>playing as the healslut
I hope you enjoy all those dicks.

>Not warlords
pussies

Well, you don't need Strength when you turn that at-will power into a WIS/CHA one.

He was explicitly asking about barbarian at-wills

Yes, and is saying you could turn it into a WIS/CHA based one anyway. Half-elves have a feat that changes the dilettante power to use one of those, regardless what it used originally.

>4e leaders
>Healsluts

More like, the rest of the party are my sticksluts. I am the leader, I make the calls.

dnd.rem.uz/4e D&D Books/

Probably want to add this to the links pastebin. Has pdf's of all the books.

The barbarian hits his foes with his axe. The warlord hits his foes with his barbarian

That link looks suspicious as fuck.
I'm not sure I want to risk disabling my scriptblock to view it.

What's a good target percentage of SMHP do deal on a Striker's MBA?
Assuming that you're the consistent DPR kind of striker rather than the rapid burst kind.