Hektor Heresy

>Where go the Ruinous Powers go corruption and sickness
>Where go the Angels of Lucifel go dreadful portents of fire and woe
I'm almost certain one (two) of those "go" should be "goes". Like, "Where goes the angel of lucifel go". Honestly though, my english isn't good enough to be certain, something just seems wonky about the tense there.

You also have a lot of weird capitalizations, like His in the second and third line. Unless you're equating the emperor to god, and thus the biblical theme of capitalizing His pronouns, in which case you should capitalize all uses of the word Emperor.

Also, I'm pretty sure "want not purity or virtue" should be "want not for purity or virtue".

On that note, next OP someone should put in the irc address.

its at
irc.thisisnotatrueending.com
channel: #hektorheresy

There. Now I have a happy little name for you to hyperfocus on, thief. Happy?

Nice House Angels of Lucifel you fucking idiot. Come up with your own ideas.

Okay, now you have a name, that's great, but I'm with this guy . I'd rather not argue in-thread. Let's take it to IRC rather than filling the thread with drama.

Hmm. Would you be prepared to hop on to IRC to talk things over? Cal's on at the moment so you'll definitely have someone to get your back.

(And if you don't feel that you have anything more to say to Josman at the moment, would you at least pop on to talk things over with me?)

Not buying it, we've had too many impersonators trying to stir up shit (The guy who keeps pretending to be Arbites comes to mind). This guy doesn't even speak like Ronin.

My thoughts exactly. Hence my assumption that it wasn't him. My keeping his ideas was actually an attempt to make peace with ronin, and given what little I know about his personality, I doubt he'd react so vehemently. Say what you will about him, but ronin doesn't seem the unreasonable prone-to-anger type.

Look, on the off chance that you actually are Ronin, my using your ideas was an attempt to make peace, not start more trouble. If you take a look at my userpage you'll see that I've been restructuring the Codex to make them better fit your view of things, with the Knights as heroes and warriors instead of dry, pragmatic soldiers. Even the prose of the codex was shifted, making them more of a "last light in the darkness" paladin types rather than my older approach.

I'm trying to be accommodating, because it was recently pointed out to me that I was too intense and overzealous on IRC the other day, and I see some truth in that statement.

I said that I wanted to include your ideas many times, and I still intend to.

If that bothers you, I can certainly back off and take my own approach to things. I leave the choice to you.

You want me in the IRC to prove its me? Fine. Lets rumble, bitch

Hey Ronin? Lumey said something that put things into perspective for me. To quote,

>"Because, I mean, I have a mostly finished write-up for the 8th Legion just in case things go awry for Cal, but I'm not going to throw it down and say, "Hey, Cal, I filled in that blank Legion for you! Aren't you happy?!"

Hadn't thought about it like that. So for what it's worth, I'm sorry.

Never has the adjective prosaic seemed so appropriate.

Hey now, let's keep things civil. No need to start calling names.

bump

So today I begin work on the Azure Serpents. Tomorrow, I do one of these with (IG).

>Demigryph riders (IG)
>Traitor dog riders (Chaos regiment)
>Traitor Phantom Roughriders (Chaos warband)
>Deep sea divers (IG)
>Literally Metal Gear (IG)
>Literally VOTOMS (IG)

In the canon, there is a farseer who found where the Culexus Temple was but didn't destroy it because he saw it would somehow lead to his craftworld's destruction. What if there was a farseer who found the temple, but didn't see the same fate and so decided to destroy it anyway? I think I may use that for my corsair fleet's defeat.

So he blows up the Culexus temple and gets dicked by the Officio in response?

Pretty much. Imagine you're an Englishman who blows up an Irish church because their soullessness scares the shit out of you No offense to whoever here is Irish. Suddenly all the soulless gingers are out for your head.

I don't feel like writing a character for the Eldar, so just have this.

docs.google.com/document/d/1lt9qq3JqgAiyAMYdzJskPTRrQ81uhrbfbbjwb7J_9IQ/edit

If that's not enough, have some Batmetal.

docs.google.com/document/d/1QMnQsX5kP0747hIKsiAmAAuDKCGCcWv-Y9h-699UsJw/edit
Already started work on the Basker Manhunters.

How does this sound, it's just something I tried writing up, should I continue off this, maybe do a story?
pastebin.com/XRJMzt4m

Trench Takers seems like a silly name. At least put their homeworld behind it.

>Today's topic: Discuss stuff in the Hektor Heresy that isn't space marines

Very well. The Motsky'ar of Khaine accidentally the Harakien Empire, and tosses Ku'Motsk into the warp, and then Isha's body, Cegorach, and Khaine bust into the Warp to break Isha's astral form out of Nurgle's Garden and rescue Eldrad and Ku'Motsk, right?

But I feel like we need another "Ancient" hero. Eldrad exemplifies the Magical elements of the Eldar and Ku'Motsk is the king of Fightan, but I feel we need a "Sneaky" Ancient Eldar, since there are a LOT of sneaky archetypes amongst the Eldar.

Some kind of legendary ranger?

If Eldrad embodies the Magical elements of the Eldar then they are screwed beyond belief.

But anyway; wouldn't a legendary ranger just be Illic?

Sigma.
Had a thought of names for the Zealots.

Chapters [1000 strong] Are refered to as Orders, with a Meister at its helm.

Companies are 100 Strong.

Thinking of some fluff for the 3rd Order.
"The Order of Immortals"
This is ripped from the Immortals of persian fame, however the Order itself unofficially names itself "The Terminal."
Think Black Rage in this regard.

Essentially, the Primarch managed to assist with a majority of the problems with the gene-seed in regards to the legions cancer, but nothing is ever a total fix.

The 3rd Order was originally wiped out, originally a dump for ailing marines.
During an initial campaign, Aubrey had ended-up amongst the ranks of the third, men who had nothing to live for and begged the Primarch to allow their inclusion in the Legion.

The entire company died on the battleground, all one thousand, but in their sacrifice the campaign was won.

Aubrey immortalised these men, every piece of gear and armour salvaged, their faces immortalized upon engraved helms.

To be inducted into the third was a merciful death sentence.
Your name would be stripped away, already pronounced KIA, given the name of the brother who had originally worn the boots they were stepping into.

But with those distractions swept away, allowed a more focused warrior, what small fears an astartes possessed of death striped from his very core, attaining a Berzerker zen.

If that even makes sense.

This method of recruitment is secret even amongst the legion.

Needless to say, the third is as famous the first and second.

Yeah, bur he's not super ancient like Eldrad or Ku'Motsk, right?

The idea of having different names for stuff sounds good, will add flavour to the legion.

On the 3rd Order being cancerous dead guys I'm a little more torn. It is possible that even after Aubrey's tinkering and meddling that some guys would not be the same, though I doubt it would be to the extent that they had to beg to get it.

The heroic sacrifice and immortalisation of them does seem like something that could be done and gives them something to do while crusadin', which is great.

I would imagine that after they fall to chaos, the 3rd order pretty much becomes a chapter of Lucius's, the same person's soul inhabiting the armour even after death.

But yeah, this is stuff is all going into the fluff.

NO SPACE MARINE TALK

K

>threads more quiet than usual when about xenos
>there aren't any xenos yet... but come in and write them user!
>everyone leaves and post count drops to 10% of the last

This is fun, I see why you've been doing this for so long.

I've been busy the past couple weeks, have I missed much?

Can't force people to write, user. If they don't want to write xenos, then no xenos will be written.

Also it's Sunday evening, most people are getting ready for work, not writing xenos.

That wasn't my complaint. It was that no-one is particularly interested in xenos here.

I don't see why you would complain about other people sharing your views.

Which God feeds on Fear?

No, think before you answer.

Is it Khorne, who feeds upon the rage of man, and the eternal war that lights the void? Is it Tzeentch that preys upon the distant hopes and twisting schemes of humanity? Is it Slaanesh that thirsts for the lust and love of others? Is it Nurgle that gluts upon the despair and hopelessness of man, the grand stagnation of the universe fattening him?

The Four cause plenty of fear, but which of the Ruinous Powers actually sates their crooked desires on such a potent emotion?

Would you listen to shadows that cradled you in the corner if desperation, to the chittering of the carrion crows that fed upon dried and cracked flesh, you would know the answer.

The Lord of Fear, Thamoraz. Thamoraz, also known as Phokolus, is a wicked creature, skulking in the depths of the Warp like a shriveled abyssal shark. He is the God of necessity and desperation, savage, base actions driven by nothing more than the most potent motivator of all; fear. He stalks his realm in the form of a giant emaciated wolf-like rat, with a mane of slick tendrils and shrouded by smoke, disguising his pitiful form, save his terrible eyes. His haunting eyes are one of the few lights in his realm of shadow and ruin, a shifting, mirrored plane of a hundred worlds wracked by fear all plunged in the most pure darkness and flooded with the fears of humanity, where his daemons hunt and cower from eachother, instilling and feeling terror.

I don't really have a problem with making a minor god, but I feel like fear is something that a major god would be in charge of.

I'm fairly certain that Fear falls under Nurgle

The Greater Deamons of Thamoraz are Whisperers in the Night, huge spindly abominations that can slowly transform into musclebound beasts if fed enough fear.

His lesser Daemons are Nightstalkers, six legged Hounds that can use shadows to traverse the material plane, and Blackhaunts, creatures that represent the common fears of man. Also amongst their number are boggarts, swarming monstrosities that plague the minds of the weakwilled and Feldrayks, winged steeds that fill the black sky of Thamoraz's realm

Such is the number of these Daemons that the God's own power is starved, forcing Thamoraz to hunt his legions of daemons for sustenance, taking back in his own essence momentarily before shedding it again everytime a human overcomes their own fear.

It's not.

Fear of death and disease.

OK. Something less controversial.

I was thinking about Craft Worlds and Aspects, and there's what looks like a missing niche in the GW material. It's sort of what FASA came up with for Clan Blood Spirit in Battletech (which may or may not help): an aspect of Khaine that embodies esprit de corps. Now, I think that could be modeled with an Aspect Warrior Elite Choice that is a group of characters to attach to squads (probably Guardian Squads, but more rules-minded people might be able to make it work more broadly).

Now, for a Craft World to play home to the original shrine of this aspect, I thought that it could be a kind of mirror to the Black Library. The BL is the home of the Black Council and the way that the Farseers coordinate their rulership of the Eldar Race. This Craftworld could be more about the Exarchs coordinating their duties as the Warriors of the Eldar. (I don't know if they need a "Red Council", but that was the shorthand in my notes!) It might even be where Asurmen teaches the Asurya, or perhaps its the origin point of the Autarchs.

Does the idea have legs?

Looks like it could have legs, maybe for the members of the Aspect, rules wise anyway, they are an upgrade for Warlocks with more emphasis on Buffs and Debuffs?

>maybe for the members of the Aspect, rules wise anyway, they are an upgrade for Warlocks with more emphasis on Buffs and Debuffs?
In that neighbourhood, but I think that Guardians with an option of these guys instead of Warlocks would be the Craftworld (I'm leaning towards Craftworld Melos) specific choice. Other Craftworlds would just buy them a bit like Apothecaries. Or maybe flip that and their home Craftworld can buy Exarchs from the Shrine as Elite heroes.

Josman will probably have some good suggestions on this stuff.

>Which God feeds on Fear?
Nurgle. The answer to that is straight up Nurgle, It's straight up outright said, he feeds off the fear of death. Says that on his 40k wiki page, his 1d4chan page, his WHFB wiki page, and lexicanum .

The answer is Nurgle.

>missing niche in the GW material
I'm assuming you mean from a lore standpoint, in which case you may be correct. From a gameplay standpoint, I would largely disagree.

The idea certainly is an interesting one, but it's inclusion in a codex would be largely redundant, as warlocks are already the uncontested masters of efficient squad-level buffing, and the only squads general enough to warrant needing more versatility through attached characters would be Dire Avengers and the Seer Council and the like, both of whom have options to do that within their squad already.

Otherwise, they would just be further buff characters for their squads, which the eldar do not need.

OK. Well, it seems that the notion of Aspect Warriors who take on the role of Khaine as the elan and camaraderie of the Eldar army is fluff-workable. Perhaps you have some ideas about another way to model that in the crunch?

I think this is pretty cool and even if it's a bit difficult to get it around the complaining it seems worth the price of admission.

So, one option to deflect complaints that Thamoraz/Phokolus can't be fear because Nurgle or that he should be a Major God by using an unreliable (or uncertain) narrator. I did something like that with Krenz and went full-throttle with Maria Vespa, adding a section to her page on various theories about her true nature. In the case of Thamoraz, you could have Inquisitors speculating that he's merely an aspect of Nurgle, some weird cultist babbling that he's actually the supreme Chaos power, a rival Inquisitorial theory that Thamoraz is a minor god, the predictable speculation that he's actually one of the C'tan and people are just getting Really Confused, a view that he's actually a powerful Daemon with some freedom of action (how that's not a minor god is a matter of perspective) and an ultra-prosaic theory that he doesn't actually exist because the only hard evidence is the scribbling of crazy Chaos cultists.

TL;DR The Eldar codex has it's bases covered. Adding more without removing something else risks either redundancy or power creep.

Long version:

My point was not to say that they would not fit well, I suspect they would though I'd have to read their rules or write something up to be sure. My point was that it would be redundant. Eldar, with their warlocks and seers, have some of the best buffing platforms in the game, rivaled only perhaps by Chaos Daemons or specific formations. Considering how effective their current models for such a role are, any new models you added would either have to be overpowered for their points cost, or they'd fade into the background in lieu of more efficient models.

A good example of this would be Space Marine Centurions. Imagine you're trying to add a new heavy infantry to Space Marines. They have their bases covered, from "light" heavy infantry in the form of scouts, all the way up to Terminators. You decide to add a heavier infantry unit. This new unit is powerful, certainly, but is expensive and has numerous drawbacks, to the point where only in certain highly specific situations are they more cost efficient than other options (grav centurions in a drop-pod for example).

I wasn't asking for more explanation. I was asking for a constructive suggestion.

My opinion is that it's largely pointless to make such a unit given the current Eldar Codex, and even were I want to, I can hardly provide a ruleset when I have little to no lore to work off of.

What they'd play like on the tabletop would largely depend on how they're arranged within their squads when working alone. Is it a unit of specialists, or an elite unit of generalists, or an elite unit of generalists who have upgrade options that allow them to specialize? Note that the third option would be outside the spirit of the Eldar codices and lore.

Does the age matter a lot? I mean Eldar don't really get that much stronger with age, Eldrad's not much better than your average Farseer.

If age is the problem just make Illic older, a prodigy or say that instead of Illic its Arkael Tanne'neth and he's a really old Ranger who's good at shooting. Honestly with Eldar special characters it doesn't matter much.

>My opinion is that it's largely pointless to make such a unit given the current Eldar Codex
Rather, I should say that it's best not to approach the creation of such a unit from the crunch side of things. As they have their bases covered in the codex, it would be best to let the fluff dictate the crunch in this situation.

Josman, given that we've just had some issues with the way you were trying to collaborate with Ronin, I'm going to take this opportunity to elaborate on process. In my mind, it's more important to help you see where the miscommunication lies than to solve this Eldar issue, so let's just shelve my idea for now.

I know you like numbers, so let me try explaining it in a math-like way. Think of our creative target as an unknown and unmeasurable number. We know it's out there and want to get as close to the actual solution as we can. I'm putting out a Fluff limit. Think of that as a lower boundary for the result. I've started conservative (vague), because if I open too high I might overshoot the target. I'm asking you to help by adding a Mechanical limit, which in this analogy is the upper boundary. In the same way that I started conservative (vague), you don't need a finished solution to be helpful.

Does that help you to understand what I'm asking for?

I understand what you're asking, but as I said, I'm missing variables here. I need to understand the composition of the squad as mentioned here >Is it a unit of specialists, or an elite unit of generalists, or an elite unit of generalists who have upgrade options that allow them to specialize?

The answer to that question will dicate the answer to your question, as each will have its own context for creation. Rather than give you all three and tell you to pick one, I figured I'd reverse that and tell you to pick one and then I'd give you one of the three.

OK. Don't worry about it, I'll do some research and work something up.

It's not. And Lexicanium says Fear of Death and Dying. That's very specific.

>1d4chan
A reliable source, to be sure.
>40kwiki
Another great source
>WHFB Wiki
This isn't fantasy
>Lexicanium
Aaaaand that's not what it says. Good job twisting facts, however. You'd make a great politician.

That's fine, sure. My backup plan for him if people went full retard with their interpretation of Nurgle's aspects is to have him be a parasite of sorts, leaching off that particular domain.

Fair enough. So Illic accidentally makes a right turn instead of a left in the Webway and falls into the warp?

While I am cool with adding yet another chaos god (bringing the total up to 8) this would create a bit of bind when it comes to Chaos Space Marines as we'd need a Thamoraz legion if he was to be a "born" chaos god on par with the extant four if we're going to be consistent. If he's "unborn", not that that stops the god from existing of course, then it'd make sense to bypass that though it'd be very easy to just make Merrill fall to Thamoraz with out changing much of anything.

He's a minor god, a major warp entity, but not as powerful as the Four.

And I would still say seven, since having a Tyranid god is possibly the dumbest thing ever written

I do not want a tyranid god and anyone who wants the Ashen Mother as the nids is boring.

Yeah, the Ashen Mother is obviously Krenz.

I should clearly make up some xenos to compete.

Well, I have Komra to your Vetrovnak. I think the only difference is that you haven't detailed your subfactions?

I meant for the Ashen Mother is obviously X bit since I do have a small pile of alien ideas floating about in my head.

Thank you! Finally a sane person.

So does Thamoraz pass?

Does in my book. Obviously I'll need to tweak the Praise to Chaos bit to add Thamoraz in.

You could make it an enraged reply by an acolyte of Thamoraz.

HA! Here's an idea!

So GW is incompetent and awful, especially when it comes to lore (if they didn't suck we wouldn't be doing this), but one of their biggest fuck ups is dropping the nuance of the Chaos Gods. Tzeentch is still pretty nuanced, what with the hope thing and all, but Khorne is the worst offender. He USED to be a god that encouraged honorable combat, and honor amongst warriors. Now he's the god turbo retard team killing murderhobos, which sucks because that's encroaching more on Khaine's sphere of influence as a god of straight up murder and underhanded bloodshed.

But what if there's metaphysical mechanics behind that? Like the Big Four are becomimg more and more streamlined that by (this is a hypothetical) 50k they would simply be Gods of a single raw, emotion, with minor gods of war, magic, sex, plague, etc picking up the slack or forming from the shed aspects of the Four.

Like for example we have a Chaos God of Honour, which Khornate warriors leave offerings to so their battle buddies don't stab them in the fucking back, and the whole team makes it through the battle. Or a Chaos God of Art, a minor Slaanesh-like god.

We could possibly expand upon this further and have minor Pantheons under each God, like Thamoraz would fall under a Nurglite pantheon. We could even go the extra mile during End Times and do it like the Eldar, where a galaxy-wide psychic awakening creates new minor gods

Or a Daemon or Chaos Space Marine chucks him in the Warp. Or he is forced to flee into the Warp cause he's on some Planet Orks and Humans are attacking and the Eldar all get killed and he's got no way else out so he takes a crazy risk.

Any of those work, makes it a bit more 'action-packed' but we get what we want at the end of the day, he's a good Eldar Ranger.

I have always held the view that the gods of chaos should not be viewed as individuals but as corporations with dozens of subsidiaries branching off. Which is pretty much what you're aiming for there.

Sounds good!

I'm just wondering, since all original Primarchs and such were made, and the Void King being original, shouldn't we not use Eldrad and Illic (or any existing 40k character) and just make original ones?

Or what exactly is the policy concerning original characters to modifying existing characters?

There's some debate about it. Some people don't want to change anything about the setting pre-Birth of Slaanesh in M31 because they don't want the setting to be too different from 40k. But we've already done that a little, and some people do just want to make their own characters.

Okay but that makes it a bit difficult. So you're saying that there isn't really a consensus?

Cause it changes a lot whether I think of this in terms of 'how could things have gone differently' to 'what can I create with a spiritual inheritance to the setting but unqiue'

All new Primarchs would make me think, personally, that we'd do new Phoenix Lords, Eldar and Orks and such but...on the other hand if everyone's still okay with keeping the non-Astartes the same then I guess it does make the work easier since we can just keep Ghazghkull, Nazdreg, Eldrad and Illic and such.

Look at me taking all that space to say I'm unsure how to proceed then.

I believe the current stance on Orks is that it's all new. Eldar is probably almost all new, though we would probably just add new Phoenix lord rather than replacing them because of how essential they are to the aspect warriors.

So, I would say that you can do pretty much whatever you want with Eldar characters. My vote is for people exist until someone says they don't.

Oh, I thought since all new legions got made the Aspects were also going to get retooled.

You know I think I'll just look at Orks or Astartes since it seems there's a consensus on what's going on there, Eldar seem a bit half-and-half to me and I'm not sure what to do with that.

Thanks for clarifying though.

My next Chaos warband on the ninth will be Khornates that fit the bill of warrior honor. Don't kill them if they surrender, respect your peers, accept a challenge, etc.

They will also have a Hektor Heresy-grade waifu.

This could be interesting, but I think there should be a cause for this "shedding" of aspects. Like something the Emperor did or something

>Komra
>KomrarmoK

I think there will be some aspect tweaking to give people space to play around

Ideas I have.

>>Eldar
>Some new Aspects.
I say we just add some and keep the ones we really like.
>New Pheonix lords
This goes without saying if we're going to have new/different aspects
>Eldrad and Illic
If they're older than the birth of Slaanesh? They stay as is. Younger? Anything goes.

>>Chaos
>Minor Gods
Awww yiss. Especially if they have needlessly esoteric aspects.
>How they came to be
I'd blame the Emperor. He hits the chaos and parts of them shake loose. Bam, instant gods.

Pretty sure both Eldrad and Illic are younger than the Birth of Slaanesh.

Personally I'm very 'meh' about the Emperor actually affecting a change on the Chaos Gods, seems like making him way OP to say he can alter the fundamental nature of the Chaos Gods themselves. I mean Khaine, Slaanesh and Khorne had a brawl and there was no creation of additional aspects so saying the Emperor can do it to all four Chaos Gods just seems too much.

Since the Phoenix Lords are defs being kept, it seems you can keep Illic and Eldrad, don't know why though since both are pretty pathetic lore-wise, so new chars might be better

So would it make sense for some of the traitors to employ Ork Mercenaries to bolster their own numbers?

It would be a nice way to reflect on of the differences between the Loyalists and Traitors that doesn't get focused on normally. The Traitors don't need to stick to the same 'kill all xenos' dogma of the Empire and so using Alien mercernaries would be an advantage they could use.

Would this make sense? For some of the Traitors?

Also would they, turning to Chaos as they are, maybe get help from alien races already serving Chaos? Like make the Sslyth a full faction who were allies of the Traitors?

I don't see why not.

>Like make the Sslyth a full faction who were allies of the Traitors?
I know fuck-all about those guys. Aren't they a Dark Eldar unit or something?

They're mercernaries who are often employed by the Dark Eldar, supposedly they're a Slaanesh worshipping Race, I just used them cause they were an easy canon example.

With the Crimson Eagles I was going to have the splinter forces make extensive use of xenos auxiliaries, and I plan to do the same with the Dreameaters as Zan was always a little apprehensive when it came to the whole Genocide thing.

Wait are they really? That's fucking awesome.

Yeah, and with base S/T 5 W 2 and A 3 they'd actually be pretty cool as an army I think.

In fact now that I've said it I'm definitly going to try to turn them into an Chaos-Allied Alien Faction then.

That sounds really cool, do you have an idea which races they'll make use of yet?