Pathfinder General /pfg/

I have thrown PoW npcs at my players for some time and I don't see the problem.

I made a thing, a bloodrager bloodline.

The Impossible Bloodline as a heavy improvised weapon theme.

/pfg/, I want your help with picking maneuvers for a Ordained Defender Zweihander Sentinel Warder.

The basic idea was to use Zenith Strikes, Scarlet Throne counters, and Elemental Flux stances, use Golden Lion stuff at low levels, as well as dipping Guardian and Crane for Intruder's End and Silver Knights Blade.

My question is what should I do for a martial tradition (Elemental Flux was from a trait). Would any discipline work well with the basic idea set out here? Or should I keep one of Primal Fury or Iron Tortoise instead of a tradition, and if so which? Both of those seem rather lack luster at low levels. Despite Primal Fury being a "problem discipline" I still see it as more chargepouncelance that the 1pp martials do, though with more damage.

How would you stat him, /pfg/? Full Access to DSP.

I'm thinking Monk 2/Stalker X, dual wielding Starknives with both Deadly Agility and Starry Finesse (Former for Dex to DMG in melee, latter for Dex to DMG at range). Is 18-20/x3 a decent crit range? Also not sure about what to do for the gun aspects of his weapons.

Aaaand forgot pic.

I was going to find a picture from Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust, but this was more relevant.

Are you taking the Ordained Defender archetype, or using a trait to swap a discipline?

Trait or martial tradition for silver crane. Would the Ordained Defender work better than straight warder for that?

OD is a straight upgrade from normal warder unless you're Arcane Gishing.

What happened last thread?

Ordained Defender is a straight upgrade from regular Warder because Wis>Int.

I want to be overPoWered. What are the most overpowered PoW archetypes, classes, and disciplines. I've heard defensive zealots are dumb strong.

I don't like Ordained Defender because you lose out on those delicious bonus feats.

Wisdom becomes your initiating modifier, so it may change the race you want to play as.
You lose the bonus feats at 3rd at 13th level, but you get an inquisition or a warpriest blessing.
You have to be good aligned to get Silver Crane.

I'd gladly trade those bonus feats for getting the conversion inquisition at 3rd, silver crane, and having wis be the main mental stat.

That gives you top tier will saves, incredible social skills, and good healing all for 2 feats or so.

fucking worth.

Ordained Defender + Zwelhander Sentinel = Much Stronger

Warders aren't a weak class this bumps them up by a wide margin.

But I don't want to zweihander I want to sword and board.

>You have to be good aligned to get Silver Crane.
No you don't. Unorthodox Method.

So as a OD/ZS I get Eternal Guardian, Scarlet Throne, Iron Tortoise, Black Seraph, Primal Fury

What others should I grab/trade out? I want the strongest ones.

But if you have good wis how can you be the oblivious tank? It's almost like you don't want to crater your perception so low the DM doesn't even bother rolling for you when the party checks for traps.

He was talking about getting Silver Crane from Ordained Defender, in which you do need to be good to get it.

What's the cost for making a custom firearm using the weapon crafting special rules?

>But I don't want to zweihander I want to sword and board.

You want to sword and board? Then grab Scarlet Throne Style.

Conglaturations, you can now wield your sword as effectively as you could a two-hander and *still* use the shield in your off-hand, unless you're saying you also want to bash people with the shield?

Yes, because I want to be good at my job.

Chose not to roll? Willingly fail the check? Why would you want to be the oblivious tank? Do you not want to look out for all trouble that might hurt your cute allies?

You're no defender like that. Can't even see the bad guys.

He'll have so many hit points that he can tank the traps.

That's explicitly not true.

Does anyone know?

Scarlet Throne STYLE is not the same as Scarlet Throne Maneuvers, and does not carry the same restrictions.

Oh, well I can't read. Whoops.

Huh, I could've sworn Scarlet Throne Style (the feat) works as long as you aren't using the item in your off-hand as a weapon.

Like, I remember asking that in this thread before and Forrest or someone said it was bueno.

>Scarlet Throne Style [Combat, Style]
>Your skill with a single blade allows you to strike with the same force as those much stronger than you.
>Prerequisites: 1 or more Scarlet Throne stances, Sense Motive 3 ranks
>Benefit: When wielding your weapon in one hand and not two weapon fighting, your weapon is treated as being wielded with two hands for feats and abilities which would benefit from this change. While in this style you cannot make attacks with your off hand or anything held in your off hand.

Yup, as long as you aren't bashing with your shield you can use Scarlet Throne Style and be just as effective as a two-hander.

It does kinda eliminate a lot of the Iron Tortoise maneuvers that do shield bash though.

Your job isn't to watch out for things though, it's to stand between the big things and the small people on your team. The warder does control like no other martial can.

>Trying to be the best and failing sometimes doesn't make for a more interesting character then Mr. perfect
>Cute allies
Unless the enemies are invisible having a -8 perception can't hurt you too badly in combat, and a huge penalty to sense motive just make the RP more interesting.

Why would anyone ever use a 2 handed weapon?

Probably the strength bonus to damage alongside only having to enchant one thing.

>The warder does control like no other martial can.
Incorrect the zealot outperforms him at this.

Very true, but that's just part of the drawback I suppose.

Oh! And if you take one level in Landsknecht than you'll be able to apply your 1.5x strength damage to one-handed attacks, meaning the ONLY thing a greatsword has over you is a 2d6 versus 1d8 or 1d10.

They do more damage and you don't have to spend a feat for Scarlet Throne Style.

>implying he'd not have a terrible CHA and likely a pretty bad INT as well.
Going WisWarder doesn't make you perfect, it just makes you good at things that tend to be better, but not without tradeoffs.

Also:
>the "imperfection is more interesting than perfection" arguement.
I bet you like 3DPD.

But I like having weird quirks! Like my druid that can't actually navigate, and is only a travelling adventurer because they're lost.

Someone doesn't want to be the team Dad or Mom.

It makes your inevitable failures that much more devastating.

>mfw Ordained Defender Warder with the Conversion Inquisition is the perfect Team Dad or Mom, leading through wisdom and corny jokes backed with their big ole warhammer

Anyone got a good resource for maps that can easily be uploaded into roll20?

>tfw you will inevitably see your children be hurt and there's nothing you can do to stop it.

Maybe if you were stronger.

My party is convinced that my druid might actually be autistic.

He avoids eye contact, forgets what he's trying to say when confronted and he doesn't understand social norms (or what a boat is).

Well... is he?

>3DPD
Ick, 2DQT all the way

All I'm saying is that in my limited experience a flawed character with glaring weaknesses is more fun to RP then someone who can do everything.

Dnd is based on overcoming imagined and created challenges. As players we enjoy victory and triumphing over issues. If challenges and conflict are what make a character fun to play and you find that sometimes GMs fail to create varied challenges and conflict it's only natural that you play a character that is flawed to create conflict and challenges for yourself to overcome.

>effort posting on a osirion hieroglyph trading pyramid

>mfw they would be hurt a lot more if you weren't there, and at least with Silver Crane you can heal their scrapes or bruises with the magic touch

Unless of course, the other Party Parent is a Cleric.

Ordained Defender Dad and Cleric Mom best pair, or vice versa.

I don't think he is, I think he just doesn't like interacting with people and prefers to be in the form of a wolf hunting with the pack of wolves that follow him.

Ok I'm just straight up asking for the most optimal warder stuff. I'm doing a high level PvP game and I know someone is bringing a wizard. The GM had disallowed simulacrum, blood money, and planar ally. So I stand a chance.

How do I wipe the floor with the rest of the players? They're are gonna be 8 of us in a deserted island covered in ruins.

Can you do a Trip attempt at the end of a charge? The way Trip is written, it says you can do it in place of a normal attack, which you can do at the end of a charge. In the case it *does* allow you to do a Trip, do you get the +2 charge bonus to the Trip attempt?

Are you the same religion or do mom and dad fight over which god is the right god like they did in my house?

>Dnd is based on overcoming imagined and created challenges. As players we enjoy victory and triumphing over issues. If challenges and conflict are what make a character fun to play and you find that sometimes GMs fail to create varied challenges and conflict it's only natural that you play a character that is flawed to create conflict and challenges for yourself to overcome.

Yeah see, I'm gonna have to agree with this lil rascal here; playing the indomitable badass that only gets stronger from Session 1 is boring, better to begin play as a man or woman in a bad place and build from there.

Heck, I guess this is part of why I'm quite a fan of letting the DM use my character or their backstory as a punching bag if the story calls for it.

>I can't demand that my party runs a specific composition for maximum memes.
I'm not talking duo-apps, I'm talking like quint-apps or similar.

>ywn run a game as OD/ZS team Dad with a loving 2DQT gf as Vitalist team Mom

Planar binding is still allowed then? You're hecked.

>Are you the same religion or do mom and dad fight over which god is the right god like they did in my house?

Depends on their backstory, senpai! The Ordained Defender could be the knightly protector of the Cleric, or they met on the road and decided each other made for pleasant company.

I don't think it is either. Even then it isn't so strong that I have to be that worries.

Iunno, binding efreeti for infinite wishes is a tad strong.

>thinking planar binding will stop you from killing the caster
What planet do you live on?

I agree for the most part, but I don't think you can easily make characters that are unstoppable baddasses. There's usually some kind of opportunity cost for character building. The OD/ZS Warder for example has typically garbage ACP, Reflex saves, stealth, Charisma, and likely ranged options as well. Just because it's efficient at what it does, doesn't mean that there aren't things it can't do/does poorly. And that's just mechanics; if we start taking in character backstory and personality, they might have other things that they are afraid of or weaknesses to other things.

>I'm not talking duo-apps, I'm talking like quint-apps or similar.

user, you're starting to leave the realm of duo-apps and enter the well-charted waters of Session Zero, where players come to the table with a concept and you corral those cats to forge a unified backstory where everyone's linked with everyone.

But I've gotta agree that building party interactions like that from the get-go is muy bueno, Especially the one you spoilered there, you handsome rascal you. If you ran a game I'd easily want to play one of those roles.

>tfw my players prefer it if i let them make their characters by themselves
>they then bitch that the party doesn't work

If I use the level 1 Mithral Current maneuver Tidal Blade and Reaching Blade Stance with a Reach Weapon, what's the distance I can hit each of the two enemies? Is it two within 10-15 feet or one at 10 ft and one within 10 -15?

>mfw you're making me awfully curious as to how a campaign would recruit and play where the DM assigns very basic themes and party roles on the players

See, I was going to pooh-pooh that idea until I remember how all my best writing (and I'm sure many of the other people reading this) came from working within a narrow scope of what the character should or can be.

Ideas are like muscles in that they need some resistance to grow well.

So we should control all thought

I let the players create an area their character hails from and come with their story and give a reason as to why they are currently in the town the campaign starts in.

But the characters aren't going to fit and when I tell them to try and make some changes, they claim I'm being an iron-fisted control freak, so I decided fuck it, they can realize it on their own.

See, you should take a page out of Paizo's book and implement something similar to mandatory Campaign Traits; sure, your character can be from this exotic land and have a tale of wonder and woe, but if you want to work in Korvosa you gotta explain to me why your wife is dead or your sister is missing.

Unless he just abuses infinite wishes then it's fine. Planar binding itself is fine. You can just say "No using spell like abilities with high material costs".

I should do that, yeah.

I wish my players weren't so averse to writing a page about their character.

Being an English professor that moonlights as a DM is an odd life.

>I wish my players weren't so averse to writing a page about their character.

That's because you're throwing a blank piece of paper at them and expecting a quality story, you gotta give them structure dude. A body without bones is just a quivering pile of flesh and fat.

>averse to writing a page about their character.
I would if it was a new group, since I'd be unsure if it would come up. But I know it won't come up for my group and it's demotivating to write a nice story to have it never show up. The worst part is my GM will still ask for a lengthy back story, when we know he won't use it.

>I would if it was a new group, since I'd be unsure if it would come up.

But user, that's the best time to write a lengthy backstory! Only then will you know if the DM loves killing off character families, or takes a plot hook and runs with it, or any myriad of other things a clever writer can do with a page of material.

>Planar Binding
>Fine

HAHAHAHAHAHAH

The only time Planar Binding is "fine" is if it's used solely for meme purposes. Like summoning a Lillend to play during a grand banquet.

And if the GM will ask for it but then ignore it? Or if he takes any family members and kills them for "plot"? What do you do then?

>I wish my players weren't so averse to writing a page about their character.
I keep adding onto my form for new characters.

I don't generally take back stories that aren't in this form either, because I don't want to deal with that (because people will either give no info or lots of info that I can't use).

>Tell me where your character was born, and to who.
>Tell me what kind of region/cultural situation your character grew up in, including financial, social status, etc, and how this effected them.
>Tell me, in 1-2 sentences each, two defining moments of your character's young life.
>Tell me, in 1-2 sentences, how your character became the class he is, where he received training (if any) or how he learned on his own.
>Tell me four people your character has a connection with, either friends, family, rivals, or enemies. Describe who they are and the relation in 1-2 sentences.
>Tell me a current or former employer of your character. If you have multiple or many either choose the most significant or explain why you had many.
>Tell me if your character has any past or current lovers, if there are many or they are not important to your character, please specify. If there are none, please specify why.
>Tell me a one or two pieces of unfinished business your character has. This can be with a person, with an object, with a group, etc.
>Tell me a keep sake of your character. An object that is important to them. This can be a weapon, article of clothing, photograph, etc.
>Tell me how these defining moments/people lead you to [blank]
The blank is filled in by campaign, for my last campaign it was "join the Ash Eaters Mercenary Company".

I've never had an issue with it unless they were using it to recreate spells with expensive material components.

Last time I have a PC who used it in a PvP game they had groups of elementals. I just teleported past them, killed the caster, and left.

>all that info
>knowing that it won't go anywhere

>What do you do then?

You take me for someone who doesn't get off to that kind of cheap, penny dreadful-tier schlock. If the DM tries to kill off a family member for some bullshit plot contrivance than I'll either roll with it (often in a way the DM didn't expect) or start the ole booty-bothered song and dance that either results in a retcon or someone being one player short. I much prefer the former, but hey the latter's fun too.

>And if the GM will ask for it but then ignore it?

Well then that's just a shitty deal and a sign you're going to have a bad time, I'd rather have a DM butcher my Original the Husbando (DO NOT STEAL) than just act like he doesn't exist.

I mean if your GM is shit, yeah.

I don't use all of it, but I use some of it.

So how /does/ Iomedae feel about the other two surviving Starstone gods, anyway?

>thinking we can escape shit GMs
IT ALL
RETURNS
TO NOTHING

So here is something I have brought up in games.

>Character has family
>BBEG fucking hates the PCs
>BBEG has the means to find out who the PC's families are
>BBEG kidnaps some of the PCs and uses their safety as a threat against the PCs
>The PCs did nothing to try and defend their families, have any means to ensure their safety, etc.
>Generally if the PCs have some kind of defense in the way I have the first attempt be a glancing blow (an example was a PC who hired several guards for the family, one of the guards ended up dying and the other escape with the family)

What I'm saying is if you're fighting a BBEG you know hates you, and you know has the means to find out who your family is, then you should try and defend them in some manner.

>kidnaps some of the PC's families

>Implying I try to escape the shitty DMs
>Implying I don't bask in the radiance of their awfulness and revel in every waifu mindbreak, brother murder or false accusation.

Nigga I love that shit, I LOVE it.

She's fine with Cayden because he's cool and not a complte toss pot, as for the other one.....well, smite evil

>and you know has the means to find out who your family is, then you should try and defend them in some manner.

This is why you make your fox-wife a level 18 sorceress, or heavily imply that woman you met out in the woods is a Hamadryad.

>She's fine with Cayden because he's cool and not a complte toss pot

Cayden Cailean *is* a complete toss-pot though, it's suggested his hot ex-prostitute Herald is the one that does most of his legwork.

I've had people do this. I generally tell folks family and relations shouldn't be TOO high level, depending on setting. I actually put the normal max at level 5, with a trait to make it 4 levels in a PC class and another trait to increase the max to 10.

Allow me to rephrase: He doesn't have a murder cult dedicated to his name

>I actually put the normal max at level 5, with a trait to make it 4 levels in a PC class and another trait to increase the max to 10.

>You will never play a high-level husband and wife power couple

I feel... Cold.

So he is.