What does Veeky Forums think of Dune?

Dune was really good, Messiah and Children were disappointing. Not sure if I'm going to read any further.

I actually do mentally recite the Litany Against Fear when my anxiety is acting up.

>ITT Illiterate niggers who never read the book comment on it

good read, poor setting for a game. Unless that game is the Dune II RTS game made by Westwood Studios.

good book

The ideas in it were cooler than the story itself, though.

It wasn't the best book I've ever read, but the worldbuilding was honestly so detailed and beautiful without being too tedious that I respect it immensely. never bothered with the sequels

S'up.

I found God Emperor terribly dry and stopped halfway through Heretics and never continued it.

Duncan Idaho is hilarious as a character.

It becomes a lot more readable if you try to read it within the context of the big idea sci-fi generation from the early 50s into the late 60s. Authors then had an idea that sci-fi isn't really a genre for stories, it's mainly a way to explore vast concepts and ideas. The Weapon Shops of Isher is a lot like this and the D'Incal and Saga of the Meta-Baron comics by Jodorowsky were like this, the latter being directly inspired by his attempt to adapt Dune.

In fact, I'd say it's a lot like a sci-fi version of Lord of the Rings. Where the story itself really isn't that interesting and the characters are functionally walking tropes and sources of "plot advancement" It's just that the world and ideas are engrossing enough that you can step over that.

Good points user.

Board game is cool. Reskin by FFG, not so cool. Brian Herbert fucked up by withholding the licence.

I sincerely hope that when he dies the property gets a better licence manager and that he fucking well doesn't burn the disks and papers his dad left but that they are released to the public so we can see how Dune 7 actually goes.

My Fremen. I do the same.

first post best post

Paul being OP as fuck is a major part of his character. Ultimately his powers are a burden that he sacrifices everything he has to try to escape. It's a deconstruction of a common hero archetype in sci-fi stories.

This. There's a good reason Dune is considered the Lord of the Rings of Sci-Fi, and it's entirely because of the world building.

>Where the story itself really isn't that interesting and the characters are functionally walking tropes and sources of "plot advancement" It's just that the world and ideas are engrossing enough that you can step over that.
The stories aren't exactly innovative, but Dune is a wonderfully executed Bildungsroman, and Messiah is an epic Tragedy.

Fantastic. Best book I've ever read. The second book is pretty decent in its own right, but doesn't live up to the first and therefore somewhat tarnishes its majesty. The third book is schlock. I never got any further than that.

>Authors then had an idea that sci-fi isn't really a genre for stories, it's mainly a way to explore vast concepts and ideas
Which would explain why modern SF is shit.

>best book I've ever read

What are some of your other favorite books?

I'm deciding on how harshly I should judge you.

A half dozen off the top of my head: Dark is the Sun, A Fire Upon the Deep, A Wizard of Earthsea, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, At the Mountains of Madness, The Book of Wonder

Only the first 3 are worth reading.

The series deserves more adaptations than just the shitty movie and some straight to tv crapfests.
Though the music that came from those was pretty good.
youtube.com/watch?v=7whegFR6Lz0

>wasting that much of the Tribe'a water

Shit art.

Huge fan of the first four books, best depiction of super intelligent beings without them being mary sues I've seen. Last two books are kinda pointless IMO. There are only six dune books.

Have this instead then.

The best Dune music; accept no substitute -- youtube.com/watch?v=q06EgcJ6FiI

>not this
youtube.com/watch?v=7whegFR6Lz0

It's brilliant, and forms along with Starship Troopers, Neuromancer and I Robot some of the best best science fiction books ever written and and corner stone of numerous cultural tropes that we now take for granted.

It's a great book user, and an important one but I would stop short of saying it's the best. Possibly best in genre but not overall best... but overall best is totally subjective anyway.

Well, it doesn't live up to The Bible or Atlas Shrugged, but it's not fair to judge everything vs. perfection.

user has good taste confirmed.
That fucking riff tho.

Stillsuit is overdesigned, otherwise these are pretty good.

It's also my favorite. I think of it and god emperor as parts of a shared book

children of dune is a downright awful book

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I assume everyone hates heretics and chapterhouse. riiiight?

Dune is the best book ever written.

Couldn't finish the first book.

I've read the entirety of the Wheel of Time, but I couldn't get through the first book of the Dune series.

Probably because I really don't like the MC, or really any of the characters.

You can tell me what "big ideas" it was supposed to convey, but it just isn't an engaging story.

>mfw people say they actually like messiah

god what a bore of a book, the extra lore was nice and seeing Dunca back was cool but it just dragged on

The second half of the book felt like it was written by a different person and about a different person.

The first half was incredible though.

Eh, it was written with that in mind. I actually like the aspects that youve mentioned.

Especially in the face of the clearly superior God-Emperor.

>reading anything past Messiah

I will not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
I will pass through my fear, and come through the other side.

This book inspired me to learn sign language so that my family can communicate without people over-hearing us.

Really enjoy the board game, haven't played it in a while.
my nigga

As for the books, well...I read the first part of the first book in like sixth grade and I haven't retried to read it since.
I really should, though

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(OP)
(You)

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This.

Children of Dune really ruins the ending of Messiah by having Muad'Dib turn up again as a crazy blind preacher instead of dying in the desert.

I'd share my water rings with you two.

The problem is that you have to read Children to get to God Emperor, which I'd say is the hard stopping point.

Honestly, the best place to stop is Dune itself, but if you're going to invest the time into the mediocrity of Messiah and the utter shittiness of Children, you need to read God Emperor if only to justify the time you've wasted.

I personally feel that God Emperor completely justifies getting through Children and Messiah. I enjoyed it more than Dune. Haven't been able to get into Heretics and I doubt I will.

But wasn't he of a pedigree bloodline that was literally bred for thousands of generations to produce specimens that are basically superhuman?

Him being anything other than ultimate perfection of the homo sapien would have been completely out of sync with the rest of the novel/series.

I read upto chapterhouse myself, I just had trouble getting into chapterhouse.

I was done at God Emperor. It's great, on par with Dune at least, and the ending is exactly what it should be, with the "WE ARE MASTERS OF THE MULTIVERSE" implications, and I refuse to read Heretics, Chapter House, or anything beyond that point. After suffering though Children and Messiah, God Emperor is the hard cutoff for me,

>Probably because I really don't like the MC, or really any of the characters.
user pls, even if you think Paul is boring, the whole rest of the Atreides crew is bro tier and The Baron and Feyd-Rautha are great villains.

Duncan is the broist of bros.

I think that chapterhouse dune was the tightest shit and everyone that thinks ootherwise can suck slig shit

>But wasn't he of a pedigree bloodline that was literally bred for thousands of generations to produce specimens that are basically superhuman?
Sort of. The Bene Gesserit were specifically trying to create someone to be an ideal ruler, who could then guide the human race on the path they desired.

That's why Paul was ultimately created from the union of Atreides and Harkonnen blood. He had his father's martial skill and ability to inspire loyalty (and even devotion) from his subjects and The Baron's ability to scheme and manipulate others in order to build and maintain power.

Other candidates for becoming Kwisatz Haderach (like the brooding Count Fenring) might have been great warriors but they lacked the ability to lead like Paul could.

Paul's individuality and stubborn will was not something the Bene Gesserit wanted though. They wanted a weak, easily manipulated person who they could lead by the nose, but would still inspire the loyalty of the masses. They were playing a dangerous game, and it ultimately went badly for them. It produced Leto II.

Wasn't he one generation too early, too?

Yes, but he wasn't really the Kwisatz Haderach. His son, the titular God Emperor of Dune, was.

Legendary, a masterpiece on par with Tolkien's best, an underappreciated literary jewel.

No, he was. He could look into the areas of the genetic memory that the bene gesserit couldn't.

And couldn't commit himself to the Golden Path.

Too much politics, not enough sandworms

>A Fire Upon the Deep
>The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
>At the Mountains of Madness
Unexpectedly good taste in books for Veeky Forums.

Pretty fun setting. Interesting factions.
I particularly like the dynamic of the Sardaukar/Fremen, and the idea of the Navigators and the Bene Gesserit. My headcanon of 40k is as a 'roided up Dune, so I guess I see Dune as a slimmed down, more sensible version of the stuff I like from 40k.
From a writing stand point, I think Herbert is a bit dry. More of a writer who is interesting because of his ideas than because his prose really grips you. I also found some of his characters (DUNCAN IDAHO) boring and a little Mary Sue-ish, but that's not uncommon in SF.

I feel the same way about Dune as I do about Gor. I liked the first book a lot. Then, pretty much immediately, the sequels abandoned the stuff I liked and became entirely focused around stuff I had no interest in. So I eventually gave up on the franchise altogether.

As a tabletop setting, I think it has a lot of cool ideas, but would be very hard to run a game in. Like a lot of settings not made for gaming, it has a lot of hard rules and internal establishments that make it difficult for players to move around freely, because of all the restrictions. And, like a lot of settings, the narrative is based around exceptional, once-in-a-lifetime individuals who defy all those conventions. This creates a situation where the players are constantly being frustrated by the fact that things they see as fundamental to the game are not actually possible for them without drastically violating the narrative integrity of the setting. Dresden Files has the same problem. So do a number of settings.

>And, like a lot of settings, the narrative is based around exceptional, once-in-a-lifetime individuals who defy all those conventions.
Just set the game in the huge expanse of time before Paul is born, but after the Butlerian Jihad. You don't even have to set it on Arrakis.

Yeah but, then it isn't really Dune, is it? I mean that's the problem.

It's not Dune, the novel Dune, but it will still be plenty Dune-like. You get to play with:
>Imperial politics
>Bene Gesserit/Tleilaxu powers
>Navigator politics
>Melee/Projectile/Las combat triangle
>Mentats
>Basically any kind of culture you can think of because the empire is so diverse
You just have to be creative with the setting and goals of your characters instead involving them in the conflicts portrayed in the books. What's their house/faction known for? Who are their enemies? That sort of stuff.

io9.gizmodo.com/5728547/check-out-a-never-published-dune-rpg
This always seemed like a neat idea. Basically, to do a Dune RPG you play as all the off screen characters who have still done cool, important things.
You're the first Atreides soldiers who set foot on Arrakis. You're the guys who skirmished with the Sardaukar, and hid out with Gurney Halleck and the Smugglers, and set the nukes in the Shield Wall.
Heck, a cool alternate that I could see happening within the Dune universe without entirely breaking canon would be playing out a sort of "47 Ronin on Dune" scenario, where the players are a group of Atreides soldiers who survived/were away when the Harkonnen exterminated house Atreides, and must now seek revenge for their dead masters.
Do you throw your lives away in a gallant, futile attempt to kill the Baron? Do you plot and scheme to ruin the Harkonnens by offering your service to other powerful factions? Perhaps you could become outlaws and smugglers, keeping the Atreides legacy alive as a defiant band of bandits constantly staying one step ahead of the Harkonnens? Or maybe you try to side with the Fremen, and follow the strange rumors of the powerful being called Muad'dib who might grant your revenge?

didn't like it until he became muad'dib
muad'dib and everything after was fucking great

Just finished the first one a couple of weeks ago. Fucking great, den/den, cannot recommend highly enough.

I hadn't thought about it that way, that's really interesting

Thanks for the recommendation, I stopped after children because I thought it was only going to go downhill

Yeah, but the official Dune RPG is shit, unfortunately.

I actually like Chapterhouse and Heretics once I managed to get over the hump of "wow this if fucking different." Plus Miles Teg is pretty boss.

This.

That's really my opinion too. They're very different, and ultimately kinda pointless compared to the first four (up to god-emperor: Space jesus saving the universe. After: Space nuns saving themselves). However, I still really liked the political shit and all, and some things like Miles Teg's powers and Idaho's genetic memory were really interesting concepts, I just feel like not enough was done with them. Heretics ends on such a cliffhanger and chapterhouse is just people sitting on chapterhouse talking politics while the galaxy burns.
Didn't touch the sequels and after someone told me of le ebbin plot twist I have no intention of doing so.

It's worth noting how much Herbert introduces or retcons in the second book. People started various religions based on SF authors' works, including Robert Heinlein and L Ron Hubbard, and when the first book came out people started to do the same thing. Personally, I'm convinced he was horrified by that and felt that some of the memetic techniques he used in the first book were too dangerous, and so devoted the rest of his works in the series to killing that line of thinking.

Also, his wife was slowly dying of cancer and he needed the money.

>prequels/sequels

Brian Herbert should be ashamed of cashing in on his father's legacy like that. And Kevin J. Anderson should never be allowed to publish again after writing Darksaber.

Ignoring anything Brian and Kevin added to the Dune universe is the only sane option.

>Atlas shrugged

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I think the poster is obliquely suggesting that Dune is a dry read. Which, in fairness, it kind of is, but it isn't your typical character driven story.

Well it is a book about a desert planet.

It's a shame, because the syncretic blend of Buddhism and Islam that seemed to be the dominant spiritual movement in the original book would be a pretty based religion.

Movie's baaaaaaaaaaaaaadddd

I doubt you'll find a soul here to dispute that
>inb4 jodorowskywank. he didn't get it. it would have been a shitshow, too

Taken on it's own, it's okay. Considering the book it was based on? It's fucking godawful.

Haha i swim through dune no trouble.
Forst WOT book had me sleeping in minutes.
I go back and give it a try now and then, but i have yet to manage it

For the love of christ, don't read any further than the first three.

I still don't understand the mental process that combined the Wierding Way, a Bene Gesserit martial art and Voice, using your commanding presence to command people against their will into Wierding, a voice powered sonic pistol.

Also, the people that are saying you should stop at three aren't my niggas, God Emperor is my favorite book in the series and Heretics and Chapterhouse were pretty solid.

Also, if you're a degenerate that hates yourself and you force yourself to read Brian and Kevin's glorified fanfiction the Butlararian Jihad trilogy is actually not THAT bad. It tries to arbitrarily shove everything that has been around for thousands of years in Dune's present into a small period of time with meh results but Erasmus (the only thinking machine that was unique from the hivemind and studies humans) was a pretty cool character.

heretics is my fave

5>4>3>1>2>6

not that 6 is bad...it just relies so heavily on a non-existent 7 to justify itself

Only read the first book, so I don't know about about sharing water rings.

... But I hella know about water sharing. And if that's your drift, we will one day be water brothers.