Things That Irk You in Settings and Systems

except in D&D Will is derived from Wisdom... they really didn't try to make sense when they made the system

this
IRL shield is vastly superior to dual-wielding because it both provides solid protection AND can crush enemies much more effectively than most people use off-hand weapon with. and is much harder to parry/dodge, since it's a big shield

It hurts to read this. Shields deserve better.

>massive multicultural cities with elves and dwarves and humans and half-elves and half-Orcs and halftime and tieflings and...
This irritates me. if your entire world is just one big homogenous cultural mass where there is nothing to distinguish the races from each other save a few inconsequential traits then why didn't you jus have everyone be a human ? (eg. "elves are basically humans except they pray to Melora twice a day while wearing a flower in their hair")
>[insert race/group here] is objectively better than everyone else in absolutely every way, physically, magically, technologically, culturally, and socially.
This is why I hated Star Trek. They tried so hard to make the Federation the most Mary sue motherfuckers in the galaxy that I just wanted them to lose, or at least for someone to call them on their self righteous bullshit without immediately being shut down with "no, we're just better than you because reasons" with no actual Reasons given and no further argument on the matter.
>settings with absolutely no moral ambiguity or settings with moral ambiguity on everything.
I can understand and appreciate if you're trying to harken back to Tolkien's good-evil dichotomy but moral absolutism on every issue annoys me. "Torture is always evil. Yes I know this man is a terrorist who has information vital to saving the world but torturing him to get that information is objectively evil". Similarly I don't want to be lectured on how giving money to a beggar merely makes her a target and thus it was actually an evil thing to do. If you're just going to throw every good deed back in the players' face then you can piss off.
>[insert relevant political issue into game with obvious right answer]
If you're going to put real world and relevant political issues into your setting then at least leave it a little bit ambiguous, or at the VERY least you can give people on the 'wrong' side some humanising traits, instead of having them be bastards.

>Psionics. Fuck Psionics. Keep that scifi shit in scifi settings. Or at least keep it in Pokemon.

A setting that has psionics isn't scifi.

>except in D&D Will is derived from Wisdom... they really didn't try to make sense when they made the system
And fort save is derived from con instead of strength. There's a difference between being able to resist a force and being able to project one.

In classic fantasy, when supernatural shit happens, it's MAGIC. Not psychic power. The whole psychic thing is a modern/scifi thing that doesn't fit in classical fantasy any more than space ships and cybernetic implants.

Psionics is just magic by another name.

Yeah, but this whole thread was for petty shit that annoys, and this is petty shit that annoys me. I don't like the flavor of "I can do stuff just by thinking about it hard enough" as much as I like magic and it's rituals and components and lore and such.

> Not psychic power. The whole psychic thing is a modern/scifi thing that doesn't fit in classical fantasy any more than space ships and cybernetic implants.
Except all of those things showed up in classic fantasy. Shit there wasn't a fucking meaninful distinction between fantasy and sci-fi until everyone decided they wanted to crib lord of the rings.

Seriously there is nothing inherently scientific about "some people can shoot fireballs by using an internal reservoir of power because they have strong minds through rigorous training" as opposed to "some people shoot fireballs by doing some quick ritual that opens up the plane of fire while screaming "oggity boogity boo" in his pajamas".

I get preferences, you but you just have shit taste.

>>Sneak Attack/Backstab being a rogue-only feature instead of something EVERYONE can do. Yes, I am too stupid to take advantage of being behind someone with no defenses up unless I'm a rogue apparently.
No, that benefit is attacking something flatfooted. Rogues take that a step further.

You ARE retarded. Holy shit.

well, it's just manipulating energy with a highly complex bioelectrical device, also known as brain, has more place in sci-fi than runic dead lizard on a string

> has more place in sci-fi than runic dead lizard on a string
Not really? People have had brains all throughout history. Do people knowing what germs are and how to treat illness without invoking the gods suddenly make shit sci-fi?

>Shapeshifting with no regards to conservation mass.
Magic

"It's what my character would do!"

>Shapeshifting with no regards to conservation mass. Yes, it makes perfect sense that a druid can turn into something either 20 times it's own weight or 1/20th of it's weight.
Why does this bother you and not literally any other kind of magic? They all violate conservation or mass and/or energy.

not all shapeshifting is straigh-up conjuring magic
in setting with Astral Plane or Warp or some other endless-energy-producing shit, sure
but in classical werewolf stories? really?

Yeah, that's a bit more silly. I suppose the idea is that it draws strength from the user, which is why they're always left very weakened when they return to their normal form, but the balance of that probably doesn't check out unless the food in the person's stomach is used as nuclear food. Which would actuallly be a cool twist on the "Russian werewolf project" theme.

I doubt the people who came up with werewolves in their various incarnations around the world knew about nor gave a shit about the conservation of mass.

If you use magic to force someone to feel an emotion, that's an enchantment spell.
Except when it's fear, then it's a necromancy spell.
Unless it's fear that kills, then it's an illusion spell.

>bird/harpy/bat skeletons that are capable of flying
If the magic making them move is capable of generating lift like that, why don't all skeletons fly?

>Except when it's fear, then it's a necromancy spell.
Terror of Death
>Unless it's fear that kills, then it's an illusion spell.
Scarred to death.

Do you get mad that some subjects/disciplines have overlap IRL too?

>Perception and Investigation both existing is hair splitting

Are you actually this stupid?

I don't understand the point of having knowledge as a skill, like you do in DND and its variants. Why should I have to roll to check if I know something? It should just be up to the DM to tell me what he feels my character should know.
It makes no sense to have a nobleman character involved in politic character not know the name of the current king because he rolled a 1.

>players, you have a rigid set of abilities and next to no options for characters
>gms, just make shit up and ignore rules

That's silly. Like all skills, you only make rolls when there's uncertainty of the outcome. You don't make acrobatics checks to walk across the room, so you shouldn't make knowledge checks to see if a man knows the name of his king either (unless there's good reason to think that he wouldn't know it for some reason).

skeletons

they make no sense, at all

>not even bound by dead tissue and stuff, just a pile of bones suspended in the humanoid shape
>wasting energy on animating bones you don't really need, because, well, it moves by magic
>yet it often gotta be in shape of a man, for some reason
>making objects move is normally some sort of telekinesis
>making bones move is necromancy though

seriously... I know they are spooky, but they just make so little sense...

any wizard who can spare enough power to animate bunch of bones and have move and not fall apart should be able to just make hovering swords that attack enemies by themselves
ah, your necromancy puts an evil spirit into the skeleton? put that spirit into the sword, jeez. still saves energy

Gary Gygax would spit in your face for such words

It's the spirit that inhabited the body. If I suddenly put your spirit into a sword, you wouldn't know how to be effective at it.

each race has one kingdom, one capital, one king/queen/royal pair. if another nation of this race exists in another place, it will be treated as a different race altogether, likely have spiky bits and have vastly different personality

sometimes one kingdom is presented by multiple kingdoms... still all in the same place and answering to some common council, or high king, or some shit

the problem here is your GM

you don't have to roll for obvious things CoC explain well the things with tiers like 25% 50% 75%, ...

Cross-Classing in DnD, any of it's versions.

I don't hate the IDEA of cross-classing, in fact I LIKE it as an idea.

I do, however, hate it's implementation mechanically. Instead of being a cool feature that allows you to make characters who represent a balanced blend of multiple classes, instead the only way to use cross-classing that doesn't leave you at a severe disadvantage is to use "dips". You dip one level into fighter so you can all armor and weapon proficiences for free. You dip like 2 levels in Warlock to get Eldricth Blast and it's amplifying perks so you have the strongest cantrip in the game, ect.

It feels super gamey and min-maxy to me, against the spirit of what cross-classing should probably be.

>animate man-shaped skeleton
>put the spirit into it
>give it a sword
>animate the sword too, because fuck if skeleton can realiably hold anything with them bone fingers
>remove the bones

there, a bound spirit holding a sword

You are supposed to roll only for thing your character might or might not know. It's a much preferrable alternative to having the GM write one hundred pages about their setting and characters having to read a portion of it varying on their Knowledge level.

>having the GM write one hundred pages about their setting and characters having to read a portion of it varying on their Knowledge level.

sounds like shit I would've done when I was obsessed with making my "perfect" roleplaying system, if not for the fact that I preferred to make tables for everything

This is fine. OP's example isn't.

Personally, though, I just have wizards conjure chemical reactions to begin with. Napalm and Liquid helium sprays all day long.

Are you me? I mean, I don't complain about these things in other settings, but I stay away from most of them in mine.

>D&D complaints department
>have you tried playing 4e?

They also happen in real life, idiot.

Microwaves, gammawaves, infrared radiation, netron emissions, ionized gasses, ultraviolet light...gravity waves are even proven to be a thing now, how the fuck do you counter that?

The only difference between types of energy is what we call it and how it interacts with matter and other energy. RPGs are no fucking different.

>user complains about something being too gamey
>You suggest 4e, the ost videogamey version to exist and literally worse than even 3.5/Pathfinder.

>Cross-Classing in DnD, any of it's versions.

So you've never played anything except 3.5 and 5e?

so? most of what you've said is electromagnetic radiation. that's not what I'm talking about.
try reading up definition of energy in physics, and how it differs. like the fact it is a property of matter, not something that can exist as PURE ENERGY

They are the same amount of videogame. 4e is just honest about it.

Alos, its cross classing works exactly like he wants it to, instead of dips.

>You dip one level into fighter so you can all armor and weapon proficiences for free. You dip like 2 levels in Warlock to get Eldricth Blast and it's amplifying perks so you have the strongest cantrip in the game, ect.
Except, non of those options are that strong.

Like at all.

As far as 90% of Veeky Forums seems to know, there was no DnD before 3.

Not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing. I can't really say the others have aged well.

>magic in the setting is just slapped on top of regular medieval stuff
>no thought given how its very existence, let alone the actual availability of magic-users, changes the society and everyday life

it's sorta-maybe-kinda thinly justified if magic is dangerous and is more of stuff learned people are doing in big castles away from common folk, but when

>people can gain power simply by studying a bit or worshipping something
>low level wizards/sorcerers/druids/shamans/clerics/whatever can appear in small peasant communities
>people still live their lives the regular medieval way doing stuff exactly the same way they would if no magic ever existed

>having the most amazing DPS cantrip in the game
>literally puts sorcerer on par with fighter in damage
>"not that strong"

Because the sympathetic theory of arcanology states that the platonic attributes in life are conserved in any state of existence. Human skeletons cannot fly because the people they came from lacked the ability of natural flight and the platonic attribute of flight. To get flying human skeletons requires having the parts of a creature that allowed it to fly be part of the raising spell.

Seriously, I think most of the morons in this thread are so lacking in knowledge of mysticism and folklore and mythology that they can only see the world from a strictly scientific view. If I didn't know any better Id say they were all literally autistic.

>Elves who are better than every other race in the setting and also live forever.
That's the only good way to do elves, Tolkien or bust.
>I'm actually OK with elves if they're balanced out in some way and their lifespans are super infinite, such as in Elder Scrolls
Fuck that, we don't need slanty-eyed humans with longer lifespans and weird customs, we already got asians.

most writers don't reach Tolkien's level of elven badassery though. they either half-ass it, or make them straight up mary sues. Noldor are better than thou, but it is absolutely perfectly executed. They are better than thou, and you love it.

>our elves will have names ending in -el or -ion
>our dwarfs will have nordic names
>our humans will have a wild mix of celtic, germanic, romanic and mutated jewish names, with no historical justification in-setting
>etymology? phonetics? culture and history? what manual do I find those monsters in?

I admit Tolkien spoiled me, but still... no one's talking about making up several elaborate conlangs with realistic phonetics, history and grammar, just to justify naming conventions, but for fuck's sake, put at least SOME effort in, jeez

Because with magic you are making fire solid and creating food from nothing.

You literally bend the meaning of energy.

Following the rules to a point.
Like I have never actually played with one of these autists but I've argued with them far enough to know these cunts would ruin games.

The kinda cunts that says slitting a throat does the knifes damage.

>>not even bound by dead tissue and stuff, just a pile of bones suspended in the humanoid shape
This is why my pet peeve is animating skeletons being the easiest and lowest power animate dead.
In my system, they cost the most, gain DR, but can theoretically last forever, unlike most undead.
They make perfect sentries.

>>wasting energy on animating bones you don't really need, because, well, it moves by magic
Intangible energies that power the skeleton need to be bound to a physical object to interact with objects.

>>yet it often gotta be in shape of a man, for some reason
Utility, mainly

>>making objects move is normally some sort of telekinesis
>>making bones move is necromancy though
Bone Golem? Necromancy usually involves spirits, the easiest power source for animating the dead

>any wizard who can spare enough power to animate bunch of bones and have move and not fall apart should be able to just make hovering swords that attack enemies by themselves
Think beyond combat
>Flying sword! Carry the child to safety!
>*SPLORCH*

are you kidding? what sort of lame-ass necromancer carries children to safety?

also
>not having various animated tools for various tasks

also
>sword-gliding like in Perfect World

What irks me is that they are supposedly tough and that le pericing weapons cant le hurt them *tip fedora*

Fuck off cunt, bones are brittle as fuck, they're dry twigs without any blood to keep them elastic. Dumb cunt.

>They are better than thou, and you love it.
And at the end, they're all dead anyway.

what? no. many Noldor survived, even one of the Sons of Feanor is still walking the earth.

and aside from Feanor himself, they all can reincarnate, no big deal. centuries, millenia - doesn't matter, all elves are immortal

except that bones made of bones are harder than same bones made of concrete

sure, concrete is no adamantium, but still not "dry twigs"

>they all can reincarnate, no big deal.
Yeah, at the end. Until then they're stuck in the halls of Manwe. The Silmarillion was pretty sad

>disliking skeletons
You came into the wrong neighbourhood, motherfucker

Its dry twigs. You bring something with at least some weight like a spear or even a sword its gonna crack that shit.

ITT: pseudointellectual college freshman

>the humanoid form has no utility
Spider, get off the internet

>what sort of lame-ass necromancer carries children to safety?
A PC or one who needs to save a sacrifice for later.

>>not having various animated tools for various tasks
Okay, that's just cool.

no, when they are ready. there examples in Silmarillion, and even in LotR. Glorfindel died in the First Age like a badass, got reincarnated, came back to Middle Earth, and became one of Elrond's most powerful servants, kicking nazgul ass, saving hobbits and the like

it's Feanor who comes out in the end and breaks the Silmarilli

also, it's Halls of Mandos, not Manwe, you haradrim

You still have to differentiate types of energy - kinetic, electromagnetic, thermal, gravitic, etc etc etc.

Pure energy would be a distillation of non-material based energy - Cherenkov radiation would probably be as close as possible to it.

it's still a property of matter, and the differentiation is more of an abstract construct helping us understand the processes.

any radiation can be quantified into quantums, and quantums are particles - i.e. matter. even light. matter completely annihilated becomes light... yet light is still made up of quantums.

>But I don't *want* to carry children to safety, I want to terrorize the kingdom!

Perfectly executed necromancer, in my opinion. Why even become a necromancer if you don't want to revel in evil and shit?

I wouldn't call 4e very video gamey. On the contrary, all the turn interrupts and shit probably makes it the worst edition to try to make into a video game.

Meanwhile,you have like 6 or 7 games that just straight up copy/paste 3.5.

People who misuse "it's" irk me more than any silly magical energy descriptor.

exactly. might as well call oneself "Post-Mortem Communications" otherwise

>roll to tie your shoe
>rolls a 1
>"sorry, looks like you forgot how to tie your shoes. Want to make a new attempt next round?"

what is like a video-game mechanically, and what feels like video game to the players are two different things. and only how it feels for the players matters.

Confirmed for never having handled human remains.

don't you ever have a dumb moment when your thoughts drift away suddenly, and the shoelaces are grasped a tad bit uncomfortably at that moment, and you end up fucking up the shoe-tieing?

About as often as I roll four Nat 1's in a row.

I have and a swift kick in the middle broke them.
Also what is it with people and killing themselves by rivers?

>Keep that scifi shit in scifi settings. Or at least keep it in Pokemon.
Suggesting that Pokemon isn't sci-fi...

it isn't... not anymore. people ARE running around catching Pokemons. now it's documentary.

>I'm a tangent about immunity to piercing damage, cited bludgeoning damage

>Also what is it with people and killing themselves by rivers?
I suggest you try it and find out

It was about breaking them and its not like human bones are far appart or the fucking spine isn't easy to just whack.

Skeletons are brittle things.

>Gary the Demon: It's not sci-fi, it's just sci...

Documentary about a post apocalyptic world full of creatures genetically engineered for utility or combat now running wild where you can buy a hand held device capable of teleporting a living creature to or from some unseen storage array at will for pocket money.

Sounds pretty scifi.

They might be closer to twigs than concrete, but bone is still hard enough to be used for tools.

(Seriously, just try it a little, you might like it.)

>Terror of Death
That's not the only thing that can frighten people, and in a fantasy setting not every species would necessarily be impaired by thinking of death.
Why is it impossible to get the same effect using enchantment?
>Scarred to death.
Again, why is it impossible to get the same effect using enchantment, or even necromancy like the weaker fear spell? Why does the AMOUNT of fear change the school?
Why does it have to be specifically an illusion that affects the senses and can be disbelieved, rather than attacking the mind on a deeper level?
>overlap
That's not overlap. Any given spell can only belong to one school, so you CANNOT use enchantment to make someone feel fear. If it were overlap, there would be spells that belong to two schools.
Go fuck yourself 3.5 apologist. Your system is long dead and Pathfinder has gone senile.

>and only how it feels for the players matters.

This.

Most players can't get past the way how things make them feel over how things actually are.

Despite 3rd and 4th editions being incredibly similar in most aspects, the latter feels gamey because of all the streamlining it did; when in fact it was just that, streamlining.

5e has mostly gotten rid of the notion of cross-classing outside powergamey reasons. You can usually build whatever flavor of character you want with archetypes. The rules to do it are still there, but they feel vestigial. You could probably borrow another archetype as a template and swap a few equally-powerful abilities around to fit whatever it needs to be.

5e's archetypes would have been pretty cool if it went with the Legends system of class tracks.

Oh well, here's hoping for 6e!

Not familiar with that. How do they work?

Archetypes seemed like a very elegant solution, to me. You can build whatever sort of hybrid you care to. There are a bunch of missing spots (like a decent fighter/rogue) but those will get filled in with future rule books. You might even be able to transplant an archetype wholesale from one class to another. Haven't tried that, though.

>massive multicultural cities with elves and dwarves and humans and half-elves and half-Orcs and halftime and tieflings and...
I especially hate it when players assume that the settting will be like that every time

>explicitly state that setting will be Human/Dwarf homelands
>drop hints ingame that the Humans and Dorfs are days away from war with Elves
>two players that rolled up elves are legitimately suprised they are blamed for the local town's problems (even when the really were to blame)

Classes are split up into 3 tracts. You can swap out a tract for another classes tract to multiclass.

For (probably not accurate) example, the Barbarian class has Destruction, Rage, and Ancient Spirits tracts. He could swap Rage out for the Monk's Martial Arts tract to replace his rage related features with martial arts.

It's essentially as if each class was built from 3 archetypes that you are free to swap around.

>>Shapeshifting with no regards to conservation mass. Yes, it makes perfect sense that a druid can turn into something either 20 times it's own weight or 1/20th of it's weight.
In the animorphs series they actually did address that.

Mass was sent and drawn from a dimension called Z-space. If you went really small, the rest of your body was put there, and if you transform the matter was drawn from that dimension.

It was also the dimension that spaceships traveled through, so it was totally possible for you to get trapped as a mouse or whatever if a passing spaceship thwacked your biomass.