EDH/Commander General

user, your logic is really lacking here. The Partner mechanic itself is only upside. What you mean to say is the design process for partner cards was hindering and they were made intentionally weak.
If they gave Partner to any other existing legends with no other changes, they'd become strictly better.

>Only upside
Disagree. It's "upside" only when they're your Commander. As a single card in your 99, or in a vacuum, it means the card is inherently weaker because it's designed to be half a card, and you don't have the other half.

>judging cards in a vacuum
This is not how you properly judge a card, much less an ability. In a vacuum, hexproof doesn't do anything, since there is nothing for hexproof to stop. hexproof only has value if an opponent is trying to target it, and partner only has value if you have another partner.

>the card is shit because you may not use what it has to offer
It is like saying that Oloro is bad because he wouldn't work well in 99.

Also, if you are going to actually judge it in a vacuum, it is only upside, because if you give it to any other exisitng creature, it only makes it better.

put malignus in saskia

Okay, let me be as crystal fucking clear as I can be.

Partner, as it currently exists, is a downside because all of the cards with Partner are intentionally undertuned to make up for the fact that you get 2. Quite literally, every Partner is half of a card, by design, and therefore inherently weaker than a "normal" Legendary. They are ONLY playable as Commanders, because without their other half, they're fucking awful.

Partner, as a designed mechanic, makes an individual card weaker, because it is intended to only be 'half' of a card.

>Give Yidris more combat related cards (i.e. doublestrike and unblockable) and remove the discard subtheme for more cascade-friendly spells.

>Give Breya more artifact token producers and more big artifacts to recur. Think Thopter Assembly

>Atraxa could use more protection to help the +1/+1 counters you're building up survive longer.

>Saskia loves damage doublers and myriad

>JD and Turk could use the offerings and hunted cards for more interesting politics

Is this card going to be fucking banned under the new administration?

Okay, let me be as crystal fucking clear as I can be.

Any ability, as it currently exists, is a downside because all of the cards with abilities are intentionally undertuned to make up for the fact that you get an ability stapled onto the card itself. Quite literally, every card with an ability is not a full card, by design, and therefore inherently weaker than a "normal" Legendary. They are ONLY playable in situations where they are benifical, because without those abilities, they're fucking awful.

Abilities, as designed mechanics, make individual cards weaker, because they are intended to rely on those abilities to be good.

>two more weeks
Soon.
And that's Thanksgiving weekend, so I'll be in town to pick mine up from my LGS instead of having to drive 20 minutes to another city.

What do you mean "new administration "?

Except those abilities -actually fucking do something- when they're on the card.

Hexproof does not require a second card to function. Double Strike does not require a second card to function. They might get BETTER with those cards, but they actually fucking do something on their own, alone, printed on the card.

More importantly, putting Double Strike or Hexproof onto a card in design does not make them slash the power level IN FUCKING HALF.

>partner is bad because they intentionally makes it bad
>I judge cards in a vacuum, but I arbitrarily take into consideration whatever I want
Tell me exactly what cards makes what Ludevic does, and still do 100% more on top of it.

I'm analyzing it as a single card, not as a partner of two pairs. I'm analyzing it as one of the 99, where Partner is 100% irrelevant. And in the 99, it's a bad Howling Mine.

I can't get myself to do anything with silas, he reminds me too much of martin shkreli and I'd feel bad playing him without a black lotus. help.

>Partner is a downside because it's factored in the cost of the cards

Do you realize how retarded you sound? By that definition EVERY ability is a downside because EVERY ability is factored in the card's cost.

Hexproof requires your opponent to want to target it to funcion, otherwise it is useless.
Double-Striker requires you to attack with the creature to function, otherwise it is useless.
Same with partner.

>it doesn't slash the power level in half
Because hexproof and double strike are not nearly as strong as partner. Take a look at indestructible creatures, their power is slashed in more than half, does it mean that indestructible is a downside?

Yo, instead of arguing over whether or not Partner is a downside or not, let's go with the theme of this thread and post some Voltron decks! Here's mine, used primarily for 1v1, non French. It's win rate in my playgroup is ridiculous.

tappedout.net/mtg-decks/mgs-kamigawa-crisis/

Come on, let's eek some dickpunchers!

Trump Administration.
This card is his worst nightmare
>Muslim immune to walls

>this ability is a downside because I analyze it when it is useless
Ok, this is bait.

BEHOLD THE JANK!
tappedout.net/mtg-decks/madness-at-the-core-of-alara/

You are so entrenched in your position that you're not allowing yourself to comprehend what we're saying to you.
You're talking about the design process for partner cards, not the actual mechanic as it exist in the rules. We are saying that the mechanic itself is an upside.

Also, I suppose to keep with the thread's theme, here's this:
tappedout.net/mtg-decks/01-11-16-jenara-voltron/

>inb4 "It's shit because no Swords of X and Y!"

Why did they give him that smug face? It looks as bad as the cards they designed after real people. Like potato-face solemn.

I mean he is a smug little shit so its in character

He knew how omnipresent he would be once Commander took off.

what's some devious group hug tech? i just saw gate to the aether recommended for sakashima.

Deck seems pretty good but why not just have Rafiq as your Commander? He'd do a better job than one of the 99.

You're probably right, but I dunno. I guess I just like Jenara at the helm more than I do Rafiq. Maybe it's the Daily Regimen effect she comes with.

>They are ONLY playable as Commanders, because without their other half, they're fucking awful.

Wow, you're amazingly wrong, my guy. Most of them are perfectly acceptable contenders in 99s rather than good commanders

Ikra is basically custom made for Dorian and isn't bad in other places. Same goes for Sidar,

Reyhan is bonkers in any given +1/+1 counters deck that can fit him. Honestly, if you don't see this I don't know what to tell you.

Ishai is pretty lousy as a commander, but is just fine in Kangee.

Silas basically says "Lose a creature or I get an artifact back. Half of esper says hello.

Vial Smasher is general enough to be considered in any deck she fits in, but probably not good enough to make the cut.

Ravos is an anthem with a good effect attached and is an evasive creature to boot.

Tymna gives you cards for life. I don't know what needs to be said.

Kraum is basically a dragon in a tribe with better support.

Ludevic... well, I'm not sure. I really hate the card so I haven't given it much thought.

Both Boros partners are dull as hell, and not even very well designed. Nothing new there, sadly.

Kydele gives you mana for drawing cards. In UG. Again, if I have to explain this one, there are bigger problems.

Finally, Thrasios. I don't know, 4 seems like a lot for that effect, but people seem to like him so I'll defer to the mob on this one.

Tana is the only one that really seems like she would be a better commander, and only because I kinda want to try building around her and Ravos to make a deck of nothing but tokens and anthems.

It depends on your playgroup, but I'm loving the offerings and hunted cards. Being able to bribe people with tokens is great and just keep some bounce or flicker effects ready if they turn on you.

>as bad as the cards they designed after real people

That's because it is.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jens_Thorén

>Perfectly acceptable contenders in 99s
The people who *fucking designed them* said that they're half a card and complaining about them being underpowered is like treating a Command spell as if it only had one mode.

The people who MADE THE CARDS said they're parts of a whole, not intended to be playable on their own.

Most satisfying Voltron Commander reporting in!

I tried running him once. Didn't like how restrictive Mono-White felt, but maybe I made the deck all wrong. At any rate, I can respect anybody who runs the CommanDoge. It's not an easy path.

>Relying on what the design team says rather than assessing the cards based on their merits.

>Some random fucker on the internet who thinks a flying 4 mana Taurean Mauler is a "good card" knows more about power levels than the people who make cards for a living
OK

To be fair, those people who make cards for a living fuck up pretty often. They're not the end-all-be-all on evaluating cards and balance.

It is not an easy path, but I run him in 1v1 which is easier. Wins about 75-80% of games against random opponents.

Let's take a look at the instant replay, shall we?

>Ishai is pretty lousy as a commander, but is just fine in Kangee.

Lemme see if I can spell that out for you. Lousy means bad. Kangee is a bird tribal commander. Everything else is a product of your autism addled mind.

Right, and I could have worded it better than that; it came across as Appeal to Authority, and that was a mistake.

My point is, while they aren't infallible, when it comes to the opinion of someone who does something for a living, vs some random asshole on the internet, who do I trust to know what they're doing?

>Is lousy, but
That means it's not good. Very few of the Partners are playble as one of the 99, because the vast majority of them do something you can already do better with existing cards that don't have "I am half a card: The Mechanic" bogging them down.

>The design team knows all

Welcome back

I love Silas' smug face, it fits the card so damn well.

>Oh no blocks? Guess I can cast this artifact again. ;)

>A random armchair quarterback on the internet knows all
Welcome back

So I guess Taurean Mauler is half a card? Oh yeah, and that card that's an anthem, a creature, enables recursion and also does three other things.

Shit Reyhan is so good, I can't even bring myself to be sarcastic about it. You're dumb as fuck, man.

No, Taurean Mauler isn't half a card because it's not a fucking 1/1 for 4 mana in 2 colors.

Ok. We get it. You don't like Ishai. A card that everyone agree's is pretty bad I'm only arguing works alright in a niche deck.

Would you like to comment on any of the other ones or did you just fill up on all that low-hanging fruit?

Reyhan is straight up good in Skellbriat or any other BGx deck that might have +1/+1 counters matter. Sidar gives all your tokens evasion. Vial Smasher gives the first spell you cast every single turn more value, even if it is random. I could keep going, but honestly I don't see why I'd have to. Is every partner good on its own? No, but the same could be asked of any card.

Sure.

Silas sucks. He's small, has no evasion, and can bring back one card per turn -if- he connects. There's better ways to set up recursion engines in black, and even more ways in U/B since it's artifacts, specifically. He's like an even narrower Karador.

Vial Smasher sucks. Burn is awful in EDH to start with, and making it so the burn can't be removal and is RANDOM means it's basically useless. Kaervek is a better Vial Smasher and he's still shitty.

Tana I actually don't hate. I feel like she could've been a 3/3, but whatever.

Sidar is weird because his ability clearly wants you to go wide with small dudes, but punishes you for playing anthem effects.

Bruse Tarl is a worse version of True Conviction.

Reyhan in Varolz can replace the enchantment that does the same thing for 6 or 7 mana. Being a 0/0 for scavange for Varolz kinda sucks but everything else about her is awesome.

>Replace
Not really. Reyhan only transfers over +1/+1 counters. Death's Presence gives you counters equal to the dead thing's total power. That's a marked difference.

>tfw my playgroup says infect should be set at 21
>try to explain that infect is balanced around reaching 10, not half your life total
>they dont listen and say it's more fair this way
>mfw I'm the only one who plays infect

>Silas
I don't know how a 2/2 with Deathtouch and an effect for 3 in relevant colors sucks. Are there better ways to recur artifacts? Sure, but that's not his function. He creates pressure. an opponent either looses a creature or takes damage and lets you get something back. Then, if he's killed, you use one of your recursion engines to get him back, made easier due to him being an artifact and a creature.

>Vial Smasher
Honestly, I'm inclined to agree. I might not be looking at it from the right angle, but I can't really see using it.

>Tana
Again, something we agree on. I think the point is to make her bigger, though, as she's reasonably priced.

>Sidar
Anthems aren't the only way to win by going wide. Just take out the anthems for more token generation. Wide is wide.

>Bruse
Again, we agree. Both Boros commanders are awful. They're not even saved by being allies because they don't have any relevant effects.

>playing infect
you're a faggot

Because a 2/2 with deathtouch for 3 is irrelevant in Commander. You wanna create pressure? There's better evasive Commanders for that. You want to recur things? There's better options for that.

Doing two things badly is not value. Would you sing the praises of a machine that can ALMOST make toast and MOSTLY wash dishes?

They're correct, though.

Try pointing out to them that there are, at most, 3 Infect creatures that actually approach the "playable" threshold in Commander, and one of them is a fucking Legendary.

It's one blighted agent in newzuri. It's one win condition. I guess i dont understand the appeal of a 2 hour game.

But you are right

>There's better evasive Commanders for that.
Only gonna say this one more time, my dude. I don't like most of them as commanders. I'm talking about the 99.

>Would you sing the praises of a machine that can ALMOST make toast and MOSTLY wash dishes?

Now who's the armchair quarterback? By this point in the conversation you've shown that you're only capable of judging cards in a vacuum, completely ignoring the psychological side of the game.

-4 mana for a stipulation you are already going to be actively trying to do though. Yeah it only triggers when things are going in your favor, but you should actively be trying to move in that direction when deckbuilding and playing.

>complaining about a single infect creature
I thought your deck was based around infect somehow. Sorry, cutie

Yey or Nay?

>He doesn't just play a singleton infect creature to snipe games, he plays the unblockable one

Turbofaggot status achieved.

>tfw playing tainted strike in Saskia and btfo'ing two players at once
God damn it feels good to be a gangster.

youre a bad man

Man, if only there was some way to deal with creatures. WotC should really start making cards like that. Maybe even in every color.

I guess until that day comes, decks that turn creatures sideways will continue to dominate both the format and the game in general.

He's playing a 1/1 with no protection, his opponents deserve it.

Everyone shits on Ludevic and they're right because he really isn't that great, but the way i like to think of him is as a worse Edric in different colors. they're both commanders who give everyone a benefit as long as they don't hit you.

Yeah then the playerbase have to start working on the arduous task of finding a way to recur creatures infinitely. Good thing wotc has estimated it would take another 15 years before the masses even grasp the smallest sliver of how its done.

...

>Zedruu and ghave get a reprint
>animar, kaalia and mimeoplasm do not

Why? Too expensive or..?

The true cop out is no Riku reprint. Or PLC dragons, Intet should be on the Yidris deck at least.

Well, Kaalia is getting a reprint in the Commander Anthology. I'd put money on the other two being in Eternal Masters 2: The Quest for More Money.

>eternal masters 2

Please no.

But I'm looking forward to kaalia being a bit less expensive, because I'd love to have one for collector purposes.

Zedruu and Ghave fit perfectly with their decks. The others would have been out of place, though welcome.

Makes a pretty fun infect commander. Blight mamba mvp of deck

But user how do you get them to 21 infect so quickly? Most of the pumps are so small that it must take a while!

I've got about $100 to get some of the pricier blue control staples, what should I get?

>3 creatures
>not 3 cards total

I know you're trolling me but with enough pumps its not impossible i can do 21 counters. Shit like Phyrexian Hydra becomes a lot more playable when it can't be blocked. Fortunately though my group aren't bitches and take their 10 poison like men.

tappedout.net/mtg-decks/vial-smasher-the-gay/
Feed back please.
Goal:
>play cheap/free spells to get damage out of Vial Smasher

Also yes I know I should run Force of Will but I can't afford that.

Yey, only if creatureless Voltron. Everyone and their mother's does snake tribal and it fucking SUCKS. Take a look at my deck and learn.

I got the Meren black/green deck but I don't think it's just quite there out of the box.

What are some good, cheap replacements I can make to make it more consistent with it's strategy?

Does anyone have any experience with Pyhrexian Rebirth in EDH? Does the horror just always get fucked over immediatly or have you got to beat the shit out of people with it reliably?

Atraxa stax friends? How much would people hate me? Basically Atraxa superfriends + smokestack, tangle wire and other shit.

By your logic, why should i listen to you, a random faggot on the internet?

I have it in my rhys deck and someone stormherded for like 90 horses off my prinal vigor so I got 2 93/93 s that didnt get removed immediately...but usually its just a wupe yhat gets swords'd immediately

it's usually never big enough to be worth it. go with something like divine reckoning instead

>I've got about $100 to get some of the pricier blue control staples, what should I get?

one played italian mana drain

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