D&D 4e General /4eg/

I just had the most amazing session last night.
>> Nature-themed game
>> GF is druid, I am shaman, sister is barbarian, and mutual friend is warden.
>> Finally found the Far-Realm, themed big bad.
>> All fail san rolls.
>> Elect to go out with a bang in our final sane hour.
>> Lob wizardly nuke at big bad and close the portal back to the world.
>> All die.

I'm playing an unseelie/winter-court pixie with a heart of gold, trying to change her essence and warm up to the idea of being good-aligned.

or MC sorcerer and use a dagger

>Using a dagger for weapon attacks as anything other than a rogue.

>san rolls

No such thing.

Or take the feat that allows Arcanes to mix and match implements from Arcane Power. That way you don't have to multiclass into something you don't want and you get access to pretty much every implement but Holy Symbols and Ki Foci.

I've actually considered making an INT bard with tome proficiency, playing up the bardic knowledge angle. And treating them as more of an orator than a musician.

You're a bard, you don't use weapon attacks for damage, you use them for their effects

Daggers have the distinct advantage of having superior implements, I'd say multiclassing sorcerer and taking accurate dagger proficiency is overall a better life choice for most bards than multiclassing swordmage and taking fullblade proficiency

Although the fullblade is funnier

>Although the fullblade is funnier
Well yeah. Nothing quite like your enemies freaking out over the furious lunatic wielding a massive sword, only to find out that's the BARD. So what must the BARBARIAN look like?

This is a difficult issue to solve because there are still reasons to play Strength/Constitution, Dexterity/Intelligence, and Wisdom/Charisma builds, such as:
• Dwarf wardens with Dwarven Weapon Training, Crippling Crush, Sudden Roots, and World Serpent's Grasp.
• Certain Dexterity/Intelligence-based Cunning Sneak rogues with permanent Stealth.
• Charisma/Wisdom paladins in general, given their sanctions, the Astral Thunder level 7 encounter power, the Honored Foe paragon feat, and the Hospitaler paragon path.

It would be difficult to improve the defenses of weaker class builds (e.g. Mantle of Clarity bards, Virtue of Prescience bards, Wand of Accuracy wizards, wizards [bladesinger] in general) without also supercharging the stronger builds mentioned above. You would have to go through builds in a case-by-case basis to avoid, say, hyper-durable and hard-hitting dwarf wardens, or Charisma/Wisdom paladins that obsolete all other types of paladins.

This is not as ill an issue as it appears to be, because the Bard's Songblade and Bard's Songbow items are at level 1/6/11/16/21/26, which means the cost exactly the same as as a regular Magic Weapon. All a bard has to do is pick up one such weapon, take Battle Song Expertise, outfit the weapon with a Siberys Shard of the Mage, and be on their merry way.

That said, the Virtue of Cunning bard is probably the best of the bard builds. It has the best AC and speed, Intelligence is a great help with skills and rituals, and its powers are no worse (or better) than those of the other Bardic Virtues. Such a bard can even skip weapon powers altogether.

The Virtue of Valor bard comes in second place, since Constitution is of minimal use to a skill monkey and a ritualist, and it is stuck in the meager AC and speed of chain. However, it probably ties with the Virtue of Cunning once the paragon tier opens up the incredible War Chanter paragon path, whose action point feature and powers are outstanding.

>This is not as ill an issue as it appears to be
Yeah, I know it's not a huge issue. It was more of an observation on perceived design decisions.

I probably shouldn't have said 'shafted.' Gave the wrong impression.

The Virtue of Prescience bard and the bard (skald) are tied for the title of "worst bard." The former has horrendous defenses (especially ironic considering its theme is defense and avoiding attacks), and the latter has neither Bardic Training for rituals nor a Bardic Virtue to help out in battle.

For a non-Virtue of Prescience bard, I would not bother with a thrown weapon for a bard, or even a Farbond Weapon. The only bard level in which a ranged weapon attack power beats out every other option is 3 due to Rhyme of the Blood-Seeking Blade, and even then, Impelling Force and Echoing Weapon are good runners-up due to repositioning and static-damage-doubling-up respectively.

I think it is much more important for a non-Virtue of Prescience bard to have a melee weapon + implement setup, and a Virtue of Cunning bard could very well play a pure implement build altogether.

For a pure implement Virtue of Cunning bard, one could gain staff implement proficiency by being a sun elf eladrin or by multiclassing. Staff Expertise is one of the best Expertise feats for its defensive benefits. An Accurate Staff of Ruin, a Siberys Shard of the Mage, Resplendent Gloves, and a Headband of Intellect can all help with accuracy and damage. A staff implement is one-handed, so such a bard could still use a light shield, possibly a Rhythm Blade Spiked Shield +1.

Such a bard could invest in a heroic-tier power progression like this:
At-will 1: Vicious Mockery, and Cutting Words OR Staggering Note
Encounter 1: Blunder
Daily 1: Stirring Shout
Utility 2: Moment of Escape
Encounter 3: Impelling Force, OR, with a party member with many static weapon damage bonuses, Echoing Weapon
Daily 5: Song of Discord OR Timeless Trek in Mithrendain, for action denial
Utility 6: Revitalizing Incantation, an absolute must-have for healing
Encounter 7: Prescient Warning, similarly a near-mandatory power for the off-turn attack
Daily 9: Counterpoint OR Wail of Anguish
Utility 10: Illusory Erasure OR Mantle of Unity

Avengers only come into their own by the paragon tier, when the Painful Oath feat and the Ardent Champion paragon path become available. That path is why Pursuit is the premier Censure at level 11+.

At the heroic tier, any avenger outside of a "low optimization" game should optimize for Power of Skill-based Overwhelming Strike charging. Take it to the hilt: Two-Handed Weapon Expertise, Vanguard Weapon, Horned Helm, Badge of the Berserker, Boots of Adept Charging, and so on.

At level 1, ask your DM how they interpret Raging Tempest; if they think it has a second damage roll, take it to double-tap static damage, and if they think otherwise, select Whirlwind Charge instead.

Fury's Advance and Relentless Stride should be taken in either order at levels 3 or 7.

Githzerai is the best avenger race for Githzerai Blade Master.

This is a mechanically unsupported option, unfortunately:
• Gaining tome proficiency will require a wizard multiclass, which will be somewhat wasted on redundant Arcana training.
• Magic tomes are almost exclusively tailored to wizards with wizard powers, and are of little benefit to other characters.
• Unlike wizards with Mage Hand cantrips and shamans with spirit companions, bards have too few conjurations and summons to benefit meaningfully from Tome Expertise's auxiliary benefit.

You would be better off simply highlighting the ritual book (or spellshard) you need for your Bardic Training rituals.

>This is a mechanically unsupported option
Fortunately, this isn't a turn off since I rarely wind up in a high op group. And I'm a borderline forever DM, since no one else I game with can run a campaign longer than three sessions.

Githzerai with their racial heavy blade proficiency + damage feat can afford to fullblade

Githzerai also make shabby bards given their lack of a racial +2 Charisma.

If you absolutely must have Githzerai Blade Master as a bard for whatever reason, look into a revenant githzerai Virtue of Valor bard.

Warlock's Ally sucks.
But it is a leveled warlock attack, meaning a regular, non-hexblade/non-binder warlock can take it at level 9
>If they do, do they automatically get the ally associated with their pact?
>What about fey and star pact, do they get to pick binder or hexblade?
>What about dark or SK pact, does it have no effect for them?

I can find no solid answer for this in the rulebooks.

>Effect: You summon a creature associated with your pact in an unoccupied space within range.

By RAW, you would indeed receive the creature linked with whatever pact you have. There is nothing that dictates whether you would receive the binder summon, the hexblade summon, or your choice of either, nor is there anything that would spell out what happens if you have the Twofold Pact paragon feat.

Unfortunately, the Dark, Sorcerer-King, and Vestige Pacts have no associated summoned creature, so the rules enter an invalid game state the moment you try to use Summon Warlock's Ally if you have only those pacts.

This is ultimately something that the DM must try to hash out themselves.

I would simply avoid Summon Warlock's Ally altogether, and retrain away from it as a hexblade or a binder. (Yes, this is perfectly RAW-legal and supported by the online character builder, for all that program is worth.) That said, if you are playing a binder, you have far worse problems than your level 9 daily attack power, such as your entire class being worthless by controller standards and nothing more than a stripped-down Player's Handbook 1 warlock.

At level 9, Vestige of the Onyx Queen is the absolute best power for any Constitution-based warlock, since it deals area damage and petrification (save ends) in a close blast 3; a good runner up is Feast of Souls for an automatic damage zone that includes static bonuses. A Charisma-based warlock can settle for Command Insanity for a no-damage hard control option (so can Constitution warlocks, actually), or Storm Countess's Kiss to disable a melee opponent.

>all these people talking about optimal builds for their fedora characters
shaking my head, rate my character sheet teegee.

Would a hybrid binder be restricted to the binder ally, or would they get to choose, because it's a chosen daily instead of a leveled class feature?

This appears to be part of a character sheet for a D&D 5e character, not a D&D 4e character.

I would not know at all. There is no RAW that covers this, and nothing about the

That said, you really should not be a hybrid warlock (binder) since its control powers pale in comparison to those of other hybrid controllers.

It's for an NPC my players will fight, so it doesn't need to be good; it's meant to die. I just liked the invisible hexblade ally because only one PC has blindsight, so it'll be like in alien where they direct their allies attacks.

I love this pic.

Also 4e is great and 4e Bards are phenomenal.

Just grab the ability. NPCs are not even remotely bound by PC creation rules.

Using PC statistics for NPCs is a deplorable idea, because PCs and NPCs are built under very different mathematical assumptions, especially with regards to damage output and hit points.

PCs are very much glass cannons compared to monsters, and thus a PC vs. PC battle will be a shameless "rocket tag."

It would be much more prudent and take less effort to simply reskin a preexisting monster for the "warlock" and bring in a second monster as a "summon" during the warlock's first turn.

I TOLD YOU HE WOULD BE BACK.
>my game is tonight
>still redoing some shit
>trying to make enemies engaging and unique to keep people
>I'm failing, I think :/\/\
>need automatons Eladrin would use to defend their city
>maybe a feywild dragon that could be convinced to keep an eye on it for reasons
>failing
>hate myself
>hate my players for having a month and STILL ASKING ME BASIC CHARGEN QUESTIONS THIS FUCKING MORNING
>AHHHHHHHH!

Oh hey 2hu, did you enjoy your ban?

>PCs are very much glass cannons compared to monsters, and thus a PC vs. PC battle will be a shameless "rocket tag."
Can confirm: I had my group's avenger fight a two-weapon ranger, because I wanted to give them a wuxia inspired sword duel. To first blood, so first one to half-health lost.

It was instead one round of the avenger winning initiative and CRUSHING the ranger.

Then they fought again, with the ranger winning initiative but missing half their attacks and getting smacked down again.

At least the encounter succeeded in giving the PC a follower that has come around to their philosophy, so in that aspect it succeeded. It was just a boring fight.

I'm rather partial to the ridiculous twin-blade avenger build for half-elves

13 str, 11(13) con, 16 dex, 10 int, 16(18) wis, 8 cha. Dilettante: Twin strike, with adept dilettante and versatile master, coupled with two-blade warrior and a couple of bastard swords

D&D 4e simply does not work that well for dueling. It thrives with battles that pit 4+ PCs against 4+ NPCs/monsters, with all of them constantly moving around and exploiting terrain. This is why battles against single-unit solo monsters are boring short of extraordinary circumstances, and why 4e resolves duels crudely.

Yeah, no fucking shit.

Twin Strike avengers may have been good back in 2009, but I am not convinced they hold up as well as generic charge-optimized avengers nowadays.

Aiming for Twin Strike as an avenger takes a very heavy race, feat, and item cost, which any other avenger could use to be a "conventionally" optimized githzerai avenger.

We had an epic (level 25ish?) game come to an Inquisitor and a Paladin dueling over their depleted and chained god in what was essentially a battle of the future of the religion.

Story wise is was a huge plot point with lots of weight behind it. After the first few rounds though it was a slog of at-will attacks only kept interesting due to the Paladin looking for a "side" way to win. Kinda deflated what would have otherwise been a really cool and dramatic event.

I'll disagree with big solo monsters being boring. At least, not like in other editions. The beefy dragons with several actions a round and lack of serious "save of lose" type stuff often kept them fun.

4e requires a bit more understanding of the tricks that make it work though I guess. You need to toss more than just a random tough guy at the party.

What is an "inquisitor" in this context?

Single-unit solo monsters are boring because:

1. They have much less incentive to move around than multiple-unit groups

2. They therefore give the PCs less reason to move around.

3. They can be neutered by finding trivial holes in their defensive traits and exploiting them. Almost all solo monsters, for example, can be neutered by "cannot attack," "cannot take standard actions," or "takes a penalty to attack rolls" powers, and the lattermost of these is relatively common.

4. They fail to vindicate players' investments in multitarget powers and other options; a sorcerer or a monk will hardly be pleased by fighting nothing but a single solo monster.

5. More so than any other type of encounter, they inevitably turn the battle towards spamming at-will attack powers.

>What is an "inquisitor" in this context?
Ugh, Avenger? It's been years since I've played sadly.

Eh, I enjoyed our big fights, but we were never so min-maxed to have the same issues with power problems. Some fights favor some, others favor others.

What are some unorthodox but viable strikers? I wanna play something different but most striker options are leaving me lukewarm.

Seeker, psion, etc.

Define "unorthodox." Is a level 13 battlemind spamming Brutal Barrage with vulnerabilities and Headsman's Chop "unorthodox" to you? What of a pixie assassin (executioner)|warlock charge-spamming with Eldritch Strike and Streak of Light, or a goliath cleric|ranger with Battle Cleric's Lore and Spiked Chaining serving as an incredibly well-rounded striker/leader with great defenses? How about an assassin (executioner)|blackguard trying to make the most of Virtuous Strike with both sources of striker damage, loading up on non-standard-action encounter and daily attack powers?

What is your starting level? What free feats are you entitled to?

1: Only a stupid monster would do this.

2: Scattering the enemy, chasing each one down, and killing them one by one works better.

3: Depends on the monster, and depends the party makeup.

4: Depends on the monster, and depends on the party makeup.

5: I can't believe I'm actually defending 4e.

1. Anything you could possibly do to encourage a single-unit solo monster and the PC party facing it to move around could be applied to a group vs. group battle, which would then become even more dynamic.

2. Isolating enemies from the battle to be picked off one-by-one is incredibly difficult to do in D&D 4e, even by the character build that the Player's Handbook 2 calls "isolating avenger." It takes repositioning enemies far away, restricting their movement, and hoping they have no ranged attacks. It is even more inconvenient against a 4e PC party given the existence of defenders.

3. Almost all solo monsters are highly vulnerable to "cannot attack," "cannot take standard actions," or "takes a penalty to attack rolls" powers, and the lattermost of these is relatively common.

4. "Single-unit" solo monsters imply the absence of other monsters, which means that, yes, multitarget powers have the "multitarget" part rendered moot.

>> spouts anti-4e memes.
Get off this general.

Level five, and no free feats, the dm is a bit of a hard ass about that stuff.c as far as what unorthodox is, I don't know. Just something different from rangers/rogues/etc. A melee based caster could be neat or something.

Pyromancer Wizard, Elemental Empowerment Wizard, Charging Fighter, Brutal Barrage Battlemind, Radiant Invoker, Thunderous Invoker, and I think there was an amusing striker-build for Swordmages but I can't remember what it was

You could consider a bozak draconian "rebreather" Dragon Magic sorcerer for a powerful melee implement-user. Take Infernal Prince as your theme and Unarmored Agility, Ancient Soul, and Nusemnee's Atonement as your feats, gearing up to select Hurl Breath at level 6. It is hardly overpowered at the heroic tier given no free feats, and it is very much a fragile "glass cannon" build. A level 5 "rebreather" will require prickly positioning up close to trigger Nusemnee's Atonement and Ancient Soul, but if conditions are ideal, the payoff will be multiple uses of Dragon Breath in a single turn. Positioning is easier at level 6 with Hurl Breath.

You could also consider a halfling Iron Soul monk. It is an amazingly well-rounded, hard-hitting (against multiple enemies too!), enemy-locking-down, durable striker/controller/defender. Take Unarmored Agility, Melee Training (Dexterity), and Versatile Expertise as your feats. Use the rare item selling trick to start with a Goblin Totem Dagger +2 (2,600 gp), a Siberys Shard of the Mage +1 (680 gp), a Ki Club +1 (680 gp), and an Amulet of Protection +1 (360 gp), leaving you with 160 gp. Tear into groups of enemies with Five Storms and Eternal Mountain, and knock single enemies prone with the suplex-like Dragon's Tail.

A pixie Desert Wind monk with similar feats and items could also work, though you will want to take Blistering Flourish instead of Dragon's Tail to supercharge the damage of your Desert Wind Flurry of Blows.

>Pyromancer Wizard
>Radiant Invoker
>Thunderous Invoker
All three of these are decent controllers, but hardly noteworthy as "strikers," especially at mid-heroic.

>Elemental Empowerment Wizard
A good choice. Although it gets overtaken by actual strikers and dedicated control wizards by paragon, it is certainly strong in the heroic tier.

>Charging Fighter
You mean a bugbear fighter (slayer) with a gouge, charging optimization, and Martial Cross-Training (Rain of Blows).

>Brutal Barrage Battlemind
Obviously, this applies only at level 13. A battlemind is painful to play as a defender from levels 5-6, given its weak melee basic attacks with post-errata Melee Training, its shabby mark punishment that requires enemies to hit, and its lack of Lightning Rush.

>I think there was an amusing striker-build for Swordmages
This is usually a swordmage|warlock, certainly a good hybrid combination by high heroic or early paragon depending on your access to curse-spreaders, but I am afraid it suffers from too great a minor action economy a crisis at low and mid-heroic for it to be a strong option.

I like strikers hybriding with Paladin or Fighter to get some extra off-turn attacks/damage going.

You can do this with just about anything. Also, the pseudo-defender Vigilante Justice style rogue discussed a few threads ago is pretty amusing for this reason.

You can build a weaponmaster fighter as a striker by focusing on their numerous charging powers combined with their excellent charging support

It's a bit like a slayer, but does less DPR and more nova damage, and can also be a semi-decent secondary defender

>2hu is back

Welp. Here go the generals. Have fun with your charop.

Say for the sake of argument you'd like to fix the Assassin class into something decent. What would it take to make it comparable to other strikers while retaining the feel of it?

I really like the gameplay of amassing shrouds to unleash them in one shot.

Maybe set him up with a stronger secondary theme that he can do before going in for the kill. Such as having strong controller riders against shrouded targets.

1. Give it a decent fucking amount of HP, Wizard HP is simply not sufficient for a melee class
2. Buff the damage of shrouds, up-front is better than a backlog for damage, so you need to make the backlog suitably powerful
3. Give it a feat or feature to help it bypass necrotic resistance, necrotic resistance is everywhere and assassins do a lot of necrotic damage
4. Fuckit, just play a rogue

Out of the hybrid defenders, the paladin (cavalier) is perhaps the strongest one for any character with high Charisma to take up. It comes with a full-powered Defender Aura and Righteous Radiance, it can have a 1/encounter leader heal from Spirit of Sacrifice, and plate and heavy shield proficiency are just a Hybrid Talent feat away. Valorous Smite at level 1 and Call of Challenge at level 2 make good power choices.

I am not quite as sold on the hybrid fighter, however. A hybrid ranger or hybrid rogue does not gain *that* much from the fighter side even considering the possibility of taking Hybrid Talent (Tempest Technique). It certainly does not stack up to a hybrid cleric|ranger with Battle Cleric's Lore, though that is a high bar to beat.

I am going to have to say "no" to this one. A fighter (weaponmaster) can be an excellent defender/secondary striker, especially at the paragon tier, when they can be a Son of Mercy with the Marked Scourge feat.

Tossing that aside in favor of charging optimization wastes the fighter's potential. It is not going to stack up to a charge-optimized avenger, fighter (slayer), or ranger (scout), and what nova potential it does have is outshone by a fighter (slayer) with the Martial Cross-Training (Rain of Blows) feat.

Never mind that the Hewing Charge feat locks you into a Strength/Constitution build with terrible defenses, whereas an avenger, a fighter (slayer), or a ranger (scout) would have equal if not better AC on top of good Reflex.

The original Dragon Magazine assassin is a lost cause, and the Essentials assassin (executioner) is slightly more salvageable but still quite mediocre the moment level 5 or so arrives. I would improve the shroud mechanic of the former and make it less frail, while the latter could use less situational at-will powers and a better Assassin's Strike power and poison progression.

Why do you hate fun? Charging fighters are fun, no one else gets as many charge powers, or interesting ones like boulder charge, and just going "well, they're really fun and interesting, but they're not quite as good as a boring fucking ranger so just ignore them" is basically saying that you hate the game.

You'll never match a ranger with a charging fighter, hell, you'll never match a single-target-focused stone fist monk, but you can be a sufficient striker because being "sufficient" as a striker in 4e is stupid easy

Why is battle cleric lore so much better than tempest technique fighter hybrid? I mean, the better armor and shield AC is nice, but wouldn't the tempest technique bonuses to attack/damage be more worthwhile for the ranger?

>Why do you hate fun?
Literal autism.

...

I just replace the PC's health with that of an Elite (Worth two normal monsters? Been a while).

There just is not that much mechanical incentive to play a Strength/Constitution-based Hewing Charge fighter (weaponmaster) over a similarly charge-optimized avenger, fighter (slayer), or ranger (scout). Perhaps even an assassin (executioner)|warlock, a warlock (hexblade), or a rogue (thief), all of which can be optimized for charging too.

4e has *many* charging builds available, and the Hewing Charge fighter is on the lower end of that totem pole.

Taking Hybrid Talent (Tempest Technique) puts you down a feat, and you still have to take Armor Proficiency (Chainmail). You are down two feats compared to a cleric|ranger, and you still have 2 less AC and lack that 1/encounter leader heal.

That said, I may have misjudged; at the heroic tier, a two-weapon fighter|ranger with a Spiked Chain Training is probably on par with a regular ranger, but by paragon, having no access to Called Shot and Prime Punisher might hurt. (Even a cleric|ranger suffers from this, of course.)

But literally none of those other options can use boulder charge

They either don't have dailies, or don't have strength

Boulder Charge comes only at level 15, and it is not even *especially* strong a daily power for its level.

That said, I will concede that the Essentials chargers grow relatively worse with each passing level (save for the level 11 renaissance of Deft Blade/Impaling Spear), due to the usual issues of poor level-scaling for most Essentials classes.

Of course, by level 15, a Hewing Charge fighter will be suffering from major frailty issues with low Reflex and low Will.

The problem with prime punisher melee rangers is that they need to engage enemies alone, which sets them back a fair bit due to being unable to focus-fire with the rest of the party

That has always been my main issue with them, but the payoff is undeniably huge: +1 attack from Prime Punisher and +5 damage from Called Shot. In the best case scenario, a ranger either finishes off an enemy entirely on their own with a multiattack nova, or softens up that enemy enough for the rest of the party to take down.

For a game starting at the paragon tier, a plain ranger perhaps has the most potential amongst two-weapon ranger builds. For a game starting at low heroic, you will certainly enjoy the perks of a cleric|ranger with Battle Cleric's Lore and Spiked Chain Training more.

MC or even Hybrid Executioners can be fun. You get access to assassin feats.

Warlock//Executioner
+Mindbite Scorn + Killing Curse = 5D8 bonud damage on a Basic Attack

I need a level 1 and 2 feat for a Half-elf Valorous Bard, stat. Ignore all Expertise feats and static +1/2/3 feats, they are automatic.
2hu, do NOT tell me to "take X at will from X class and take X feat to support it", I am not asking that yet.

The assassin (executioner)|warlock is a well-known build, and it can be improved as a pixie with Streak of Light and other components of rapier charge optimization: a Vanguard Weapon, a Badge of the Berserker, a Horned Helm, Boots of Adept Charging, Light Blade Expertise, Surprising Charge, and so on.

Alas, half of your encounter and daily attack powers will be of minimal use to you.

I would suggest Bard of All Trades to transform yourself into a solid skill monkey, and Mark of Healing to help your allies shrug off (save ends) effects.

I would recommend taking Dilettante only for a half-elf starting at high heroic or at the paragon tier outright. Before level 11, Knack for Success is a *much* stronger and more versatile racial encounter power, and it can even help with skill checks out of combat.

Remember to invest in a Bardic Songblade and, if your GM allows it, a Rhythm Blade Spiked Shield +1.

improved majestic word or mark of healing never ever hurt.

If dragonmarks are on the table, battlesong expertise combined with mark of storm is ridiculously awesome.

Ah, yes, if your GM does not give you free Melee Training, you should definitely take Melee Training (Charisma) before Mark of Healing. That way, you can charge and make opportunity attacks.

If you have a free Expertise feat, Battle Song Expertise is the best of the lot for you. It should help with both Staggering Note and Shout of Triumph.

Bear in mind that if you will be taking both Mark of Storm and Battle Song Expertise, you will also need a Lightning Weapon, which can be rather expensive. You will also have to take Arcane Implement Proficiency to use implement powers well, unless you forgo a light shield (and potentially a Rhythm Blade Spiked Shield +1).

Melee warlock that is not a hexblade. Is it viable, or should I give up on the concept?

It is viable, extremely so with hybrids.

Bards do have many thunder powers, most notably the at-will staggering note.

Is it viable to do so as a human? I know Half elf has a much easier time of it, but i'm looking to play a human this camapign. What are the best hybrid or class options for a melee lock?

Cavalier, Paladin, Fighter, Executioner (see:) would be my immediate picks.

Also, humans make viable-very good everything, just maybe not the best.

I guess i'll tinker around with Warlock|paladin or warlock|fighter then. Fighter seems a bit trickier since i'd need to dip into strength heavily, right?

Yes, but not enough to rely solely on native lightning and thunder keywords. Mark of Storm is more geared towards those who will be dealing lightning or thunder damage with *every* attack.

As far as pure-classed warlocks are concerned, a melee warlock probably will not be as good as a ranged warlock. Depriving yourself of the many rock-solid ranged attack options from the warlock list will be a shame, and Shadow Walk works best when you can keep your distance and move.

The classic swordmage|warlock is a solid hybrid combination... by high heroic or low paragon, when it can solve its minor action economy crisis with curse-spreaders.

Human swordmage|warlocks have the upside of being able to take Eldritch Strike alongside Sword Burst and either Hellish Rebuke or Eyebite, and the downside of being unable to have 18/18s in both attack scores. It is certainly viable, though as mentioned above, the swordmage|warlock struggles with a minor action economy crisis until high heroic or low paragon, depending on your build and your items.

Moving away from the swordmage|warlock, I really do not see anything in the fighter|warlock's favor. There is minimal synergy to it.

The assassin (executioner)|warlock is a classic build laid out in and .

The paladin (cavalier)|warlock is a top choice for the reasons mentioned in .

Thus, between all of these options, I would definitely recommend either an assassin (executioner)|warlock or a paladin (cavalier)|warlock.

What is your starting level, and what free feats are you entitled to?

7th level, but no free feats. I'd prefer to focus on a more offensive/striker hybrid melee lock but i'm not sure how effective such would be.

As a human assassin (executioner)|warlock, you will be a one-trick pony focused squarely on murdering opponents using Eldritch Strike, preferably while charging.

A human paladin (cavalier)|warlock will have more variety to their tactics, sometimes stopping to defend the party with Valorous Smite and Call of Challenge, but for the most part, your modus operandi will still be to kill opponents outright with Eldritch Strike and all your other warlock powers.

Remember to be a Sorcerer-King Pact warlock for the Mindbite Scorn feat, and to take the Killing Curse feat, giving you +2d8 curse damage.

Could a secondary defender work with adjusting the Bleak Disciple feature? I've thought about making them pump out THP like crazy through a few adjustments with feature and feats, and making Night Stalker the controller sub path.

Warlord HP work fine you think? I thought to have the shroud do d8 damage to start, with a d10 improvement feat option. Maybe I should mix Assassin's Strikes natural damage buff instead, and have the Shrouds increase the damage by an additional for each one applied, and something special for removing them based on class feature?

I'm trying to not make it a lost cause. I don't really care if I have to rewrite it from the ground up with major adjustments and mishmashing features of the two classes. Is the poison worth it?

>Could a secondary defender work with adjusting the Bleak Disciple feature?

That was my other idea, yeah. You still need something do draw fire with, but an at-will power that does slow+no shift should work for that (maybe tinker with executioner's noose?).

Another interesting thing would be to focus on staying hidden while using your secondary role, but that kinda moves into rogue territory. Then again, perma hidden rogue is usually an assassin hybrid.

>you really should not be a hybrid warlock (binder) since its control powers pale in comparison to those of other hybrid controllers
But...invisibility!

I had drafted up a sample level 7 human assassin (executioner)|warlock. This character's playstyle is simple: charge-spam with Eldritch Strike. You will want to expend Assassin's Strike at the first opportunity, and to activate Delban's Deadly Attention and Touch of Command whenever opportune. Occasionally, you will be buffing yourself encounter-long using your assassin poison and/or Emerald Shield. It is hardly a complicated build or playstyle.

If anyone has a better suggestion for a feat than Resourceful Leader, please recommend it.

Level: 7
Race: Human
Human Racial Power: Heroic Effort
Class: Assassin (executioner)|warlock
Defense Bonuses: +1 Fortitude and +1 Will
Guild Attacks (Hybrid): Red Scales
Eldritch Pact (Hybrid): Sorcerer-King Pact
Theme: Your choice, but I would recommend Elemental Initiate, Ghost of the Past, Guardian, Harper Agent, or Ironwrought
Background Benefit: Auspicious Birth or Born Under a Bad Sign

Ability Scores (Level 1, pre-racial): Strength 8, Constitution 12, Dexterity 16, Intelligence 10, Wisdom 12, Charisma 16
Ability Scores (Level 4, pre-racial): Strength 8, Constitution 12, Dexterity 17, Intelligence 10, Wisdom 12, Charisma 17
Place your human +2 in Dexterity for more AC and initiative, or Charisma for more attack and damage with warlock powers; you can use either Dexterity or Charisma for Eldritch Strike due to Attack Finesse anyway.

Feats: War Wizard's Expertise (human), Mindbite Scorn, Killing Curse, Arcane Implement Proficiency; the last feat does not matter too much here, but I would suggest Resourceful Leader for an extra trained skill and a way to help your allies

Trained Skills: Perception, then three (four with a multiclass) other skills; no need to take Athletics given Ghost of the Rooftops

At-Will Attack Powers: Eldritch Strike, Quick Lunge, Poisoned Dagger
Encounter Attack Powers: Assassin's Strike (Hybrid, assassin 1), Delban's Deadly Attention (warlock 3), Touch of Command (warlock 7)
Daily Attack Powers: Either Bloodroot Poison or Carrion Crawler Brain Juice (assassin poison 1), Emerald Shield (warlock 5)
Utility Powers: Either Ethereal Stride or Shadow Blend (warlock 2), Ghost of the Rooftops (assassin 6)

Items, assuming starting with an Ioun's Revelation +1 is not allowed: Vanguard Longsword or Rapier +2 (level 8), level 7 rare item sold for 2,600 gp, Horned Helm +1d6 (level 6), Summoned Leather +2 (1,800 gp), Rhythm Blade Dagger or Wrist Razors +1 (680 gp), Badge of the Berserker +1 (520 gp), Boots of Adept Charging (520 gp), Bracers of Mighty Striking +2 (520 gp), 360 gp remaining, free mundane adventuring gear as per page 143 of the Dungeon Master's Guide

Charging attack bonus:
3 half level
+4 ability modifier
+1 feat
+2 enhancement
+3 proficiency
+1 charging
Total: +14 vs. AC, average AC of level 7 monster is 7 + 14 = 21

Damage with charge and Warlock's Curse:
1d8 longsword or rapier
+4 ability modifier
+2 enhancement
+2 item from Bracers of Mighty Striking
+3d8 Warlock's Curse with Mindbite Scorn and Killing Curse
+1d8 Attack Finesse
+1d8 Vanguard Weapon
+1d6 Horned Helm
Total: 6d8+1d6+8 (average 38.5)

Do explain.

Feat ideas: Hybrid talent for prime shot? Cursed Shadow for shadow walk?

Is it worth spending money on Iron Armbands of Power as a Swordmage, since about half my attacks are non-melee implement?

Probably not worth it if you can buy other items.

Nice taste bruv

In that case I might get a Weapon of Summer. Scaling bonus to damage of both melee and implement along with a new keyword to have fun with sounds like it'd do me better, even if the damage bonus is less than IAoP until epic.