Pathfinder General /pfg/

Pathfinder General /pfg/

>THIS IS IMPORTANT!
If you want build advice make sure to say what 3pp you can use, if any.
>THIS IS IMPORTANT!

Journey Edition: What's been your experience with long-distance travel and exploration in Pathfinder?

Unified /pfg/ link repository: pastebin.com/JTj1yEmU

Kineticists of Porphyra IV: End of an Era playtest: docs.google.com/document/d/1XTgiUdDSrTCvATEDeDJ4MnbDgS6KEBLu2e9mjj5fwaw/edit
Broken Shackles Playtest: app.roll20.net/lfg/listing/59701/broken-shackles-test-play
Creation Handbook Playtest: docs.google.com/document/d/1kitAB8sHgmuD3fvOMuI_KyV_dxpO2wrxQmbnCoRgglA/edit#
Avowed Playtest: drive.google.com/open?id=0B5HkyGRtGZy3SWVhdWFBWERWWjg

Old thread:

Other urls found in this thread:

d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/special-materials#TOC-Angelskin
d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/e-g/figurines-of-wondrous-power/obsidian-steed-figurine-of-wondrous-power
d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/e-g/figurines-of-wondrous-power/bronze-griffon
docs.google.com/document/d/17YzQl2fB7cWAze1RqiuJDvuZtP_cio5XWpJjK35innY/edit?usp=sharing
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

I fly or teleport if I can afford the latter.

Again, the KOP 4 playtest is over, I'll let you know when the next playtest I run starts.

There is any way to protect a Evil outsider to be:

- Unaffected by holy water
- Unaffected by Channel Positive Energy
- Have his alignment disguised against high level magic (barring True Seeing)?

What I'm trying to do is a BBE that is disguised and act as a spy in the PCs holy church, but I need to check if I can do this bulletproof (or almost) by the rules.

Pic kinda related.

>Unaffected by Channel Positive Energy
Channel Positive Energy only negatively affects undead.

Even with Alignment Channel, it heals evil Outsiders.

>- Have his alignment disguised against high level magic
d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/special-materials#TOC-Angelskin

One of the inquisitor archetypes has you able to spoof your detect.

I actually have a deity in my setting based on journeys. Can you guys rate him?

Name: Burel Hall
Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
Title: The Absent Brother, The Joyful Brother
Areas of Concern: Deserts, Lost Causes, Unrequited Love, Wanderers
Domains: Travel, Love (Subdomain of Charm), Luck, Whimsy (Subdomain of Chaos)
Position: Saint (he isn't a full deity, but a saint in service to a deity).
Origin Story: Burel was one of four brothers. After the passing of their father the brothers made a pact, that each would travel a different direction in search of their fortune. Burel, the elder middle brother, long thought to be complacent in his position as second to be sired chose west, so that he may look towards the light during long evenings. His travels took him to a desert. Beneath the burning sun his skin reddened, and the long journey had rubbed blisters upon his feet. To no one he complained loudly, proclaiming his misfortune, hearing his own voice so as to help his lonely heart. Then in the distance he saw an enormous rock, looming over a river cut through the dunes, and beyond it the sea. Burel basked in the shade of the rock, and his skin was soothed. He dipped his feet into the water, and they too were soothed. Looking up he spied a figure upon the rock's edge, a woman more beautiful than he had ever seen before, framed by the western sun. And so his heart was soothed. Realizing he had found his fortune, he set about winning the woman's heart.

pls rate diety

>- Have his alignment disguised against high level magic (barring True Seeing)?
A set of feats called Damnation Feats does this

So I know this is a /pfg/ thread, but I have a question concerning 3.5 and that's does anyone have a link to the Players Guide to Arcanis?

How much would you expect a player to pay for the following item?

A trinket, that when activated, summons a griffon. The item, when it is made, only works for one person. If the Griffon dies, the user takes damage (some amount that won't kill them, but will cause serious problems), and the Griffon cannot be brought out again until tomorrow. The Griffon obeys any commands given to it by the owner. The griffon can exist for 16 hours at a time, before it disappears and needs to be re-summoned after an 8 hour period of down-time.

How much would you expect players to pay if the item worked only 3 days a week?

Sounds like a proper old timey Western folklore type, I like it.

8/10 would be fine with it being in a list of pantheon options.

>d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/e-g/figurines-of-wondrous-power/obsidian-steed-figurine-of-wondrous-power

This costs 28.5k. It can do what you're thinking, plus planeshift and ethereal jaunt.

It does not have the user take damage when it does and can be used for 24 hours but has to rest for a week.

Plane Shifting and Ethereal Jaunt are big for this. Take those away and the item becomes a lot cheaper. Making it so it hurts the user when it does would effectively counter the increased use in my mind.

I'd put it at roughly 22k gp if I made it.

this is an animal in an item

Find the cost of a griffin and add the cost of a summoning spell equivalent to its CR

Maybe knock off some becuase of the restrictions

He and his four brothers are are saints who give domains. Each has a different alignment (CN, NE, NG, and LN).

The woman he saw is also a possible deity, but not part of the religion and worshiping her is considered heretical by main stream folks.

There is the main deity, Capre On High, and his saints (I planned on having 20, too lazy to write them all). Other gods are less common but considered kind of connected to Capre in some manner (one of his hands was crushed and the bones left over became a multi-part schizophrenic deity of madness, mathematics, and record keeping). Saints aren't full deities so they get 4 domains, gods separate from Capre get 5, and Capre himself gets 6.

So you are saying 22k for the item? I would guess that the cost of Plane Shift and ethereal Jaunt would be more than 6.5k.

How much would it cost if it turned into a different CR 4 creature that was unable of flight?

So a griffon would be worth around 9k, but that's mostly due to the flying and intelligence it looks like.


Note, the reason for the confusion is that the item in question actually spawns a giant lobster(Homebrew, CR 4) but the owner is aquatic as well.

Other than that, it looks like the "lobster dies" penalty is going to be around a third of the user's HP.

>So you are saying 22k for the item? I would guess that the cost of Plane Shift and ethereal Jaunt would be more than 6.5k.
There is also the power difference between a griffon and a heavy horse.

We tend to be a "take 10 seconds for an 10 mile journey" kind of group, if only because we are also a "take one hour for a one minute battle". Unless something is a serious obstacle (mountain climbing, lake/ocean crossing, etc.) we don't really care for the shitty 1d3+1 wolves attack shit encounters. Only time we ever actually cared about travel is when I had my group guarding a massive trade caravan to a major city, but that was the focus of the campaign across many sessions.

It's not actually a Griffon, but a cr~4 lobster homebrew.

So 22k for an item that summons a CR 4 pet monster that takes 1/3 to 1/2 of your health when you die?

How can any kind of economy make sense when a mr skeleton only costs 50gp?

Isn't this item a better match?

d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/e-g/figurines-of-wondrous-power/bronze-griffon

>d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/e-g/figurines-of-wondrous-power/bronze-griffon
Oh yeah just bump that shit up to like 12k for the extra day of use and you're golden. Or keep it the same because of the hurting you restriction.

Mostly because keeping undead around are highly dangerous because they pathologically attempt to destroy and consume all life when not controlled.

>mfw trying to juggle balance concerns and spread out abilities to a reasonable degree with "BUT GUNSLINGERS" being an actual argument
>mfw ended session on a headache when it should have been fun to start a new arc
>I possibly, ooc, ruined my chances of getting close to to the QT human draconic sorceress

Homebrew is a hell of a drug. How did everyone else's weekend sessions go? Anything fun and exciting? I coukd use some feel good stories.

How to make Flight a class skill for classes that don't have it natively? 3pp/3.5 allowed.

All my weekend campaigns are dead or delayed, there's no stopping my spiral into sadness now.

How did you ruin your chances? Say something the player opposed, or did you reveal a character thing?

How much would said item cost if it worked 7 days a week, injured you when it died, the animal still needs to eat/drink, and the item only worked for one person?

The item also requires a live specimen of the animal in question to summon.

15k?

What kind of fighter archetype would you use to make a sword and board character?

Viking.

>THF gets extra damage
>Shields give AC and hit bonuses
>TWF gives extra attacks at no penalty

What can I give single weapon in one hand users?

It'll probably cool off in time. There was poor communication regarding homebrew which was magnified by various things. See

bump

I want to play a Soft and Chubby adventurer that looks like she has no business adventuring but is extremely competent.

>pic related
>competent
You and I both know Meg is one of the worst units in the game

The thing is, she wouldn't be chubby for long considering the the work an adventurer does. Then again it's all fantasy so why not?

Play a bloat mage.

its hard to find good images of overweight women in armor and/or look like spellcasters

That's because your average adventurer subsists on bland tasteless trail rations! Sometimes a girl needs something with more substance. sometimes she needs a lot of that substance!

No, bloat mage is nothing like i'd want to play.

>No, bloat mage is nothing like i'd want to play.
I thought you wanted to be fat and competent.

I dont like the mechanics behind bloat mages. And thematically it sounds like they're best played as the minions of vampires. Or the vampires themselves.

Bloatmages just make me think of grossly obese neckbeards.

The kind that can go into a nerdrage and give themselves a heart attack.

Why are players such big babies the second they think they might die.

Whenever I use a villain who doesn't crumble the second things don't go his way players start freaking out. I had a villain straight up tell them "I'm willing to bet everything on this gamble, can you say the same?", and the players decided to chicken out and leave rather than face him. The second players face someone with conviction they realize they value their character's life way more than anything else. It pisses me off especially when that doesn't fit their character at all.

Plus, the guy wants chubby but competent, not obese. As someone with a roommate that was well over three hundred pounds until a couple years ago, there is a serious difference.

I normally have them as hyper opulent nobility.

Because people have invested a lot of time in to making characters and want to see it pay off nicely?

Most players care more about their characters not dying then what the characters would actually do in the situation. They don't want to risk losing a character they are attached to, even if its less interesting overall, since if the character dies they lose all the investment they put in.

Its kind of annoying, just penalize them in other ways (let the villains evil plan happen).

Then they should act like heroes rather than run away the second someone actually threatening ties to fight them.

Actually I did this last time. The villain managed his overthrow of the local government and kick started his revolution, bringing in oppressed abhumans and various other factions into a roil of war to go after the heart of the empire.

You gotta be really careful when dealing with higher weight characters. You cant have them too big, or else people will say that its stupid and doesn't make sense. or complain that you're injecting your fetishes.

As for women, You can get away with more if they have an hourglass figure, riding the appeal of Thicc. but put any focus on the midsection and you might have issues.

Have them shamed by everybody for being major cowards, too

Player characters aren't always necessarily heroic enough to risk sacrificing themselves. Many adventurers are just in it for the money.

Good, good, make sure they feel the consequences of their actions.

Does anyone know if the Kikimora has ever been made a PC race first or third party? I just want to tidy things up for the party from time to time...

Play an arcane caster, probably a Charisma focused one. Be a hedonist, spend tons on food, and use that to justify how a character who spends all their time wandering the countryside and hunting monsters can keep from getting thin.

How would you go about making this dude?
Barbarian/Fighter with TWF?

They actually were. They ran back to the baron with their tails between their legs to find out the vanguard of the enemy was right behind them. The Baron told them to get out of his castle and city, and that if he saw them in his lands again they would be hanged rather than bring shame into his household a second time.

This is after the Baron entrusted them with this mission and they assured him they would accomplish it. The Baron then did his stand against the army and went into a siege. A messenger he sent out named the party as craven.

>Good, good, make sure they feel the consequences of their actions.
Trust me they are. They're now barely ahead of the war front that's basically a spear head towards the imperial capital, shamed and far away from anyone who will give them aid, and national celebrities having had their role in the entire mess blown out of proportion. This coming after the enemy commander named them and sent out the decree that anyone who brought them to him would receive a massive reward.

So the nobility don't want to help them, the citizens don't like them, and bounty hunters/military outriders come after them.

monstrous races (orcs/ogres/etc.) get a slight pass with fat females, I find.

Short session due to missing a player. Did a large ritual sacrifice to repair an axe belonging to our barbarian, and said axe contains a rage-demon. After that was just some campsite RP. Our Alchemist/ninja and Arcanist had fun flustering the Hell out of our ranger.

I have always been tired of Spell Point and Vancian casting in D&D (and by extension Pathfinder) so I have been working on a variant casting method/class to use it.

Essentially: Casting spells causes your body strain which eventually builds up and slowly penalizes/incapacitates you. You can cast more dangerous spells, but they are riskier to cast.

I am still trying to think of rules for learning spells in this system that are fair and interesting enough for magic (not just copying off someones spellbook).

Heres what I have so far: docs.google.com/document/d/17YzQl2fB7cWAze1RqiuJDvuZtP_cio5XWpJjK35innY/edit?usp=sharing

What are the most weeb PoW disciplines? Mithral Current and Veiled Moon seem to be on top.

>GMing a fight
>have enemy that is extremely fast
>say "You lose track of him for a moment as he blurs, the distance closing from 50 feet to none before you can blink"
>"So he teleported."
>"To your knowledge no, he didn't cast a spell or seem to concentrate on one."
>"Yeah, but that's the only way he could get there."
>"No he just went really fast."
>"You can't lose sight like that with perception rules, he would have had to stealth. Therefore he teleported."

Why do I even bother describing things? Is it so wrong that an enemy could move faster than your eyes can follow?

Tell that character an irked cosmic force subtracts 12 nonlethal HP from him for being a cunt.

Also stop playing SANIC

Oh god I've had a player like that.

Tell him if he wants to dictate how the laws of your game work, he can GM instead.

>My GM lets me have PoW
>I become STR SAD
>I have 32 STR

Now hold on here.
Exactly WHAT did the enemy use?

The players do have reason to be asking, because there are various abilities which can deal with this, or that could have been stopped. Honestly, from only your description that we can read, the enemy either
>Teleported
>Timestopped
>Used a riven hourglass high level interrupt (6th or 7th I believe are what's needed here depending on the distance)
>GM handwaved the approach to "because muh plot sez he has to have gotten there despite their reach, overwatch or reach weapons even though they'd stop him cold and dead if he tried to rush in like this so uh he's too fast".

WHAT exactly did the character use - because the rules are for everyone - to make it there?

It's not that there aren't any ways, but it sounds like either the player had a method to deal with teleports that he thought you were "uh, nuh uh it didn't work", OR suspected cheating bullshit.

Your point about teleportation counters are valid, but by no means is the GM held to rules the same way.
If they want to make a character that can avoid AoOs, they do it. That's not cheating, that's GMing.

And there's nothing wrong with that unless maybe one character specifically built for reach or AoOs and their fighting style got invalidated.

How are you even STR sad when it can't be your initiation modifier, unless you just took martial training?

Okay mostly STR SAD
It's sufficient enough that my init mod is just a sideshow

>implying initiator modifier matters fuck all

That's BAD GMing.

>I invalidate your characters and things go the way I say
means you've given up on having them interact with the world properly and just want to tell your story now.

The players have no reason to bother with the rules either if the world itself won't follow them, and may as well declare what happens just like you do. After all, that's just roleplaying.

Don't negate the system's structure. Work within it. Work within it or you're no longer playing the game with them.

Making a single enemy that can avoid attacks of opportunity isn't bad GMing. Its bad GMing when you do it specifically to counter a players build.

The problem with monster creation is there aren't really any rules. There is nothing in the rules, as a DM, that stops you from giving a monster a supernatural ability that lets it move incredibly quickly in short bursts to avoid Attacks of Opportunity.

Just because you disagree with it doesn't make it bad, it depends entirely on how and why it was used.

I just said that it's fine UNLESS it negates a character build.
If nobody's especially invested in AoOs then what does it even matter? Everyone's hit the same, and it's an obstacle to deal with.

The system structure is an exception-based ruleset. There are hundreds of specific things that work in exception to the general rule, and saying that an enemy has a homebrew ability that avoids AoOs isn't even a dent in the already shaky system integrity.

(And that's assuming it even had that ability and the whole thing wasn't just an -interesting fluff description- of how they walked up to the characters)

>200 hp critter
>takes 6 damage in an AOO
>DM is completely justified in saying "he just casually walks up to you and whips his dick out"

Jokes on you I'm in an ERP game that is totally reasonable

>He moves so fast you don't have time to react
>Bitch, I'm fast enough to standard a fucker in the face while time is fucking STOPPED
>Uh well he moves really fast, so fast you can't react in time
>When I can full-action to interrupt anything at any speed
>But he's fast

There's already so many ways to do what the GM wanted to do that actually work within the rules, going "nuh uh nothing you do works he gets there" is nothing but using cutscenes to fuck the party up like old fucking FF games. At the very least it's lazy, and at worst it shows the GM was too afraid the players might be able to react that he decided fuck the rules.

>player_entitlement.png

Well, you mentioned that you play with PoW abilities.
How do you justify not being able to AoO the non-teleportation maneuvers that let the user move without provoking?

Why can't this enemy's ability be justified in the same way?

This is the problem with PF. Everything and it's mother has a ruleset for it, the GM can't just say things happen without spending 20 minutes finding the rules for everything his antagonist does. Bogs down sessions and makes GMing a holocaust.

That's not a problem with PF, the problem is players who stubbornly insist that the GM is held to that.

Nothing actually requires a GM to do this, and if your players are shitty enough to require/insist it... no gaming is better than bad gaming, especially when GMing for shitty, ungrateful players.

All I asked is that the GM explain what he'd used. Maneuvers have their rules, their interruptions, their conditions for use and their limitations. That's getting what he wanted within the system. It's using the rules, just as you expect the players not to cheat. If you don't have something to prevent such movement (there's some over in fools errand for example) that's just your character's problem (it's not the GM's fault I can't fly if I didn't bother grabbing Fly it's mine).

Take something other than AoOs for example.
Would you say something like:
>There is immunity to nonmagical weapons, and there's antimagic fields. So what's wrong with saying the enemy negates all magic and is immune to the no-longer-magical attacks?

Would you? Because there are abilities that allow one to deal with those negators/invulnerabilities, whereas just going "lolnope hahaha" doesn't. It seems similar in effect, but it's vastly different both ethically and in how it can be dealt with too.

I think what we've got here is one side saying "the framework between the players and gm can't hold if one side is not beholden to the rules" and another side saying "it adds time and complexity that detracts from the story if the gm can't just decide what happens"

>There is immunity to nonmagical weapons, and there's antimagic fields. So what's wrong with saying the enemy negates all magic and is immune to the no-longer-magical attacks?

Obviously what's wrong is that it means the players can't do anything. You're consistently missing my point that this is okay to do only when it doesn't fuck players over.

Yes, there is no functional difference between a GM giving enemies an ability that can be overcome in a specific way but specifically picked so that none of the players can have reasonable access to it, and just giving enemies an ability that can't be negated. And if the ability is something as minor as avoiding AoOs, sometimes that's fine.

>Give every enemy 100 SR
>Give all enemies a special ability that negates SR: none from spells
>Laughing as wizard players drown themselves in tears

>"it adds time and complexity that detracts from the story if the gm can't just decide what happens"

I'm actually not saying that. I'm saying the GM has the right to not be beholden to the rules, not just for the sake of ease of use, but for the sake of just putting interesting and unique things into the game.
This can be abused to do terrible and badly thought out things in a bad GM's hands, but when done well it's used to great good.

The GM is ALWAYS within their rights to change the rules of the system. Simply by agreeing to play in their game, the players put a degree of trust in the fact that judgements like that are done for a better experience. If they find the GM isn't meeting their expectations, they can leave or complain they don't like it, but the GM hasn't broken any game rules. They ARE the game rules of that campaign: the system is a tool for them to use, not the other way round.

Congratulations, Blasters eat shit and the most Cancerous Wizard play styles are STILL unaffected.

Are whips useful at any point? They seem pretty meh, even from a lvl1 standpoint.

They're decent if you take like the entire whip feat chain.

Everything but buffers would be affected

>buffers
>not cancer
Also summons.

>Wall of stone
>Create pit

They'd ignore it via superSR

"No, this wall does not impede me sorry."

What's your character?

>conjure dire fuckbeast with augment summoning
>it attacks
>Fuck

>"Sorry conjured fuckbeast, you don't hurt me."

At that point it's literally breaking the rules. Not just abusing them, breaking them.

>DM
>Breaking the rules

There's a difference between
"I'm gonna give the enemy a thematic ability that bends the rules"

and

"I'm just going to NOPE NOPE" everything you do.

There is a good way and bad way of handling shit like this, autistic fatalists will never understand this.

>user literally can't comprehend the idea that bending the rules in a minor way is different from ignoring the rules to fuck players over even after it's spelled out three times to them

Jesus christ.

...

>Let me just slide down this slippery slope to argument fallacy land

...

I think that might be what some anons up there are thinking's going on with the original argument.
"Why is he just going nope nope, this sounds suspicious"

We've all changed up monsters, but at the end of the day they're still functioning within the system, and if you give that skeleton a readied Gutstrike and up its CR to compensate, it's different,it'll surprise them, but it's still within the... physics? Of the universe that they play in.