Horus Heresy General /hhg/

>playing with 36" deployment zones

Nth for lorgar did nothing wrong

I thought zooming flyers came from the edge of your side of the table and moved up to 18"? But it turns out they move up to 24". Also, supersonic makes no difference in the movement phase, only allows the flyer to flat out more, or whatever the flyers' flat out move is called.

fuck off

WTB Halp for Ultrasmurfs.

Seems nobody wants to horus heresy them due to mary sue 40k.

People are so conflicted when it comes what to do and been years since I played so not too sure what actually works anymore.

Msu, blobs, types of vehicles, transports, army composition? I have no idea on any of these things..

Shut the fuck up, stop trying to understand the shorthand, download the books, and start reading.
Learn to crawl before you walk. If you haven't read the books, you shouldn't even be posting in this thread.

1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Space_Marine_Legion_List_(30k)#XIII_Legion:_Ultramarines
>Get a list
>post it here
>???

So you have mediocre characters barring Bobby G himself, the flat best legion unique units, possiby tied with Sallies and the Gal Vorbak why are ashen circle so shit. However, your Rites are fucking pathetic. So it depends on how you want to run your army-mechanised, footslogging, terminators everywhere, primarch deathstar, etc. Read the tactica linked by the other guy, read the legion army list, see what you can think of. Watch batreps on youtube or go in to your local gamestore to figure out how much the game has changed recently

They do MSU best, but that's expensive in 30k. Their army is infantry based, but vehicles can designate targets for the infantry to use their LA rule and reroll, so squads in rhinos are better than the other legions' equivalents. And you can reach already engaged squads easier.
Suzerains are OP, Fulmentarii are what you pay for, which is a lot, and I don't know shit about Locutarii. I'm phoneposting

I have, it's just the interpretation of the force compo for the UM are quite open hence the variety of lists made for them.

You toxic little cunt.

Zooming flyers must move a minimum of 18" and a have a maximum move of 36". I can't find anything that says you can't come out at Cruising Speed out of reserves or that this affects dropping of bombs. On a regular 6x4 table, the flyer, if moving in a straight line, can move from the table edge up to the edge of the edge of the enemy's deployment zone.

Whoops you're right. Srry, I hope breakfast helps me wake up. Interesting tactic, would melt steel beams with.

I've seen some people advocating for it. Probably depends on the meta. If there's bound to be AA and you really want to bring that flyer, at least you'll get a chance to drop a deuce on the enemy before getting Intercepted from the skies. It is a pair of S5 AP2 Blasts with all the Phosphex goodies attached, after all.

How many bombs can you drop in a single run, 4?

>running gal vorbak with counter attack and preferred enemy (everything)
>dark martyr even has a power dagger

I can just imagine 10 serrated suns leaping up during a prayer circle and yelling "it was a trick!" before jumping out a window while Argel Tal just stares in disbelief

>I'm not aware Gal Vorbak don't have LA rules, so they lack Mutable Tactics.

>Brother, is that some sort of power athame you're wielding?
>Wha- ooh right. Sure, that's what it is.
>Can I see it?
>No :^)
>:C

Rewards of Treason doesn't say "replace Legion Astartes", it just flat out gives it to them.

Legion Specific Unit iirc

>Where this is revelant
I thought this mean LA(Salamanders) became LA(AL), not that Daemons were gifted the LA rule.

It is listed as a legion specific unit for word bearers

I absolutely agree that is probably the RAI but not necessarily the RAW. If an opponent didn't find it reasonable I would not force the issue and would concede the ruling.

Shieeeet.

>not necessarily the RAW
Kind of looks like forcing the RAW too.

One. Though do note that a bomb cluster or a pylon still counts as a single bomb in terms of rules, even if it drops several blasts. Also, as far as I can read, the target doesn't have to be an enemy model. It just says "nominate one model that it passed over" which sounds like you can target your own models as well for, say, a Danger Close situation. Like if there's some model with a rule that makes you unable to target them, but you have a friendly model right next to them, you can target that friendly model and catch the enemy with the blast regardless.

Where relevant is an awful term born from vague insurance documentation. If it had say "instead" it would be crystal clear

Agreed. Heh, you made me think of Infiltrating the Iron Circle. Can you imagine?

I disagree, where relevant implies that the rule needs to be present to be changed. If Gal Vorbak lack LA in the first place, the rule is not relevant to their unit entry, and will not be given to them.

"This unit has the equipment and special rules that they would normally, howerever they have the Legiones Astartes (Alpha Legion) special rule where this is relevant, no the Legiones Astartes special rule of their parent Legion."

It doesn't give anything, they keep what they have and swap LA.

The key is 'where this is relevant'-so wherever the unique unit stolen has Legion Astartes, it instead gains LA:alpha legion. So you can take those Gal Vorbak, or even a Mhara Ghal, they just don't get mutable tactics or power daggers

Somewhat disappointing although it's not like gal vorbak need any help being effective

True, although the idea of random Gal Vorbak prancing around going 'trollololollolol we trol u' to lorgar/argel tal like some 2009 /b/ goer makes me giggle

Terminator armor now allows its wearer to reroll failed saves. All terminator units are recosted appropriately

Y/n

20 man Marauder Blobs
10 Shotguns, 10 Pistol/CCW, Pariah Armour.

Fluffy for my particular Blackshields, but a terrible tabletop idea?

Artificer armor is now a 3+ save that rerolls save rolls of 1 and is immune to AP3

Y/n

Why

Is the lack of shotguns to save points? They already have a bolter, bolt pistol, and chain axe.

Fill 'em with shotties.

I'm not sure if you understand probability but for all that effort it just makes it equivalent to a 2+ save. Literally the same probability.

Flavor

I wanted there to be a mechanical difference between terminator armor and artificer

It gives it that feeling of improved power armor

There already are differences. Terminator armour gives you an invuln along Relentless on top of the artificer's 2+ save.

>It gives it that feeling of improved power armor
>2+>3+

Over complicating a single-d6 system adds bloat to the game.

Relentless on characters doesn't do very much, currently there's not that big of a difference between a praetor with Aaa and iron halo and one in Cataphractii

Rerolling 1's is over complicated?

>3+
>immune to ap3
Yeah nah you're an idiot trying to fix what isnt broken. Does there need to be a difference between how Carapace plate and the various other 4+ armours work as well?

>Rerolling 1's is over complicated?

It is when it could just as easily be a 2+. It's called streamlining. A 3+, immune to AP3, that rerolls one is anooying. Just be a 2+.

Mastercrafted carapace :^)

Rerolls just add time and are not necessary

What would be a competitive 1k pt Luna Wolves list? I'm thinking of getting BoP and making a pre-heresy list out of it.

Not that user, but I don't quite agree with power swords ignoring power armour but being utterly useless against artificer. I mean invulnerable saves used to be armour saves that could never become less than a set number, back when power weapon was a rule and ignored every kind of save. Idk, like a homebrew system I once read that took armour, cover and AP into account, meaning a refractor field in the open was weaker than a terminator in cover. But well, for that to happen 40k would need to move beyond a D6 system. Not gonna happen.

It would be a start. Have you read the Zones Mortalis rules already?

I have the istvaan trilogy and it skims around it. Why?

I also agree, but the problem is the 1d6 system. It's difficult to have large amounts of variety in it.

In infinity, which uses 1d20, you REALLY feel the difference between an elite in power armor vs a grunt.

40k could bump up to 1d10 or 12 so marines could feel a bit better than humans+.

I also think invul saves should be ward saves. Taken in addition to armor saves. I mean the field doesn't just say "Oh, it just AP5, I'll let the armor take it." but hey, what can ya do.

Would be far more relevant in 40k than 30k, and still wouldn't settle the problem of AP2.
Give terminators a 1+ save

whoops wrong reply, meant to reply to

>terminators without chain fists just rock em sockem robots each other for eternity

I think I'm not getting what you're trying to tell me. There are rules for it in HH1 and HH3. It's like a minigame, with stratagems, alternate FOCs, Warlord Traits and such, but most of that can be ignored and the game played as 30k in a maze, with some terrain limitations.
I mean, SoH BS5 Plasma squads rapid firing without the risk of a Medusa placing a pieplate on them? With teleportation, or maybe Vet troops along with some Fearless bubbles? Don't sound too bad to me.
Agreed

It's about what bitz I get from the space marine scout box. I'm using the fatigue-clad scout arms on power armoured marines to represent stripped down Pariah Armour (the proportions are fine, I've checked). 5 shotguns and 5 pistol/ccw sets to a box.

Also, Marauders pay for their bolter, basic wargear is Pistol/CCW or ChainAxe.

I don't want to kick the hive but I'm considering doing (loyalist) World Eaters as part of a Shattered Legion of Isstvan III survivors once my Imperial Fists are done. Did we reach consensus on if they receive free chainaxes or not? Does it change if they're in a Shattered Legion?

Depends if you modeled them.

All I ever wanted was the truth

They cost two points on your tacticals, unless you swap your bolters out for them. Just like chainswords. Doesn't change for Shattered Legion, I think.

Oh, you want your anti-teq to be simple and ubiquitous?

So your artificer armor cancels armor penetration. Then a superweapon will come out that cancels artificer armor canceling armor penetration. Then a character will come out with super-artificer armor that cancels superweapons canceling artificer armor canceling armor penetration. And it will never end.

Shitty image. No "( book/audiobook title) link?"
Also no phoenix spear and chainaxe meme with Mickey and Goofy.
BTW.
Children of Sicarius anyone?

No we did not reach consensus. Many (most?) of us think they are free, with a more-specific-than-usual requirement that they be modeled. Some of us think you still have to buy the chainsword first. Shattered legions doesn't affect it.

All it takes is AP2

just like a 2+ :^)

How durable do Thallax stats make them? Obviously I need two units for Ordo Reductor and I get two in the Legio Cybernetica bundle, but are they much more durable than termies and such?
3 wounds, yes, but only a 4+ makes them not much tougher than a 10-man infantry squad.

>tfw you Venerate the Wrath and all your melta guns are master-crafted
I think they withstand plasma better and regular guns just the sae, let me find the math.

Don't forget T5 FnP5+, iirc.

FnP6, it's Ursarax the ones who get fnp5.

Honestly I wouldn't care if your tacticals get free chainaxes or not. It's not like WE have a whole lot going for them and it's still only a melee upgrade, which means it doesn't do anything because you're never reaching my gunline anyway. Or maybe 2 or 3 marines if you're lucky

>you'll never reach my gunline
What makes you so sure about that? Are you a Tau or something, huh?

No fuck off.

The answer, as with everything else, is quad mortars :^)

Terminators lose their invulernable saves in exchange for a save of 3+ on 2d6.

AP2 subtracts 2 from the roll, AP1 subtracts 4 and STR D subtracts 6. (Essentially requiring a natural roll of 5, 7 and 9 to pass, respectively)

Cataphractii and characters with invulnerable saves reduce the AP penalty by X amount

Mmmm Thudd

>Rules Bloat: The Post

>I'm too young to have played 2nd ed

There's a reason we don't play 2e anymore.

>people still refusing to accept the fact that even in real life a shot either penetrates armour or it does not.

How many of them, user? Phos + Krak?

I'd actually like to roll saves on a D10, with higher AP being better to a maximum of 6 for D strength.

SO rather than arbitrary numbers subtracted for low ap, A melta becomes AP5 and subtracts 5 from the roll or counts armour as being 5 points weaker when rolling to penetrate.

Mostly CC rules and fucking Eldar t b h

Ah ok. It's not bad. Not shotgun for days good, but not bad. Anvil industries make a lot of good shotguns.

To be honest, I miss the Warhammer Fantasy system of a weapon's strength giving a flat modifier to armour save. Also cover inflicting a negative modifier to hit.

Those were better days.

Or hear me out... take this game mechanics stuff to the 40k General and not the thread about an expansion.

I would like to put up a petition to remove the Preferred Enemy and Hatred rules from the game as rerolls are inherently bloat and bad for any system

It's time for you to leave, new friend.

>implying GW will ever make the hobby more complicated to get into

Using a D10 for certain rolls would only make it harder for newbies to get a grip around the rules

and why you tripfagging son

I would like to put up a petition to remove rolling from the game as rolls are inherently bloat and bad for any system