/CofD/ &/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

Not him, but I still prefer Masquerade personally. Just find it altogether more interesting. Requiem isn't shit, I just don't find it as flavorful.

> it isn't against it
It explicitly is, look up the part in Goldstein's book that mentions the motivation of the Party, keyword is French Revolution.
> If you really read it (which I doubt, considering the nonsense you are spouting)
Wow, this is the first time in this argument I actually feel insulted.

Like i said it grew on me. Though i still like masquerade with its sabbat vs camarilla and clan vs clan.

The covenants some i like some i dont but i never get how they fit in the grand scheme of things and dont just stick to each other (except those that are very political like the invictus and carthians) maybe i should read the "how to make a city" i am sure i saw one for 1st.

That and for a game with tons of offensive powers the game doesnt offer much in the sense of a outlet to the violence you can inflict. I mean masquerade had shovel head/sabbat that youl could always punch but requiem dont seem to have much in the disposable bad guy goon department.

I love blood sorcery though even thought the teban sacrifice is badly explained.

The big thing for me is that you can't have the Sabbat-Camarilla conflict in one coterie, whereas the five Covenants are all free to squabble under a thin veneer of civility so you get more viewpoints and debate in play. Rather than strictly political blocs, the interesting things to note about the Covenants is that all of them represent answers to the question of "I'm a monster, what the fuck do I do now?" - they're big support groups, basically.

And yeah, it's not about going out and punching things, it's about the horror of slowly letting your humanity slip away from you. The cool powers are mostly there for ruining mortals and then feeling bad/awesome about it.

>The big thing for me is that you can't have the Sabbat-Camarilla conflict in one coterie, whereas the five Covenants are all free to squabble under a thin veneer of civility so you get more viewpoints and debate in play. Rather than strictly political blocs, the interesting things to note about the Covenants is that all of them represent answers to the question of "I'm a monster, what the fuck do I do now?" - they're big support groups, basically.

I totally get that, is one of the things that i like most about apocalypse, the viewpoint/phylosophical debate.

Maybe is because i am from south america so catholism is big on paper but people just doesnt give that much of a shit so i cant really see how the LS make sense and blood sorcery fiction make an archbishop seen his goons to get his monthly silver platter money from a vampire wich seemed incredible banal to me.

Maybe their covenant book makes then better?

>And yeah, it's not about going out and punching things, it's about the horror of slowly letting your humanity slip away from you. The cool powers are mostly there for ruining mortals and then feeling bad/awesome about it.

I didnt meant that all the game should be about that but that i miss the option that once in a while the player with celerity and potence could cut loose and punch shovel heads into a fine mist.

>It explicitly is, look up the part in Goldstein's book that mentions the motivation of the Party, keyword is French Revolution.
That's funny interpretation, especially considering the collectivism part. Oh wait, collectivism is capitalism too, right?
>Wow, this is the first time in this argument I actually feel insulted.
Good.

The LS isn't jut Catholic though I wish even the authors would remember that. You can get a holy roller baptist preacher there, and in the middle east they're politically ascendant because they also include vampire Islam.

I'm not sure if that actually answers your question because I'm having a hard time parsing your sentence after 'doesn't give that much of a shit'. It kind of goes off the rails grammatically, or I'm having a stroke or something.

>That spoiler
You are completely incorrect

The Lancea Sanctum is less a monolithic church and more a loose philosophy whose central creed is "we are chosen by God to be monsters that punish the wicked and keep the flock in line."

I'm pretty sure Muslim Kindred are an entirely different group, given that the Sanctified are explicitly drawn from a Roman doctrine based around the events of the crucifixion. The one book that touched on it had a wholly different covenant for them, for one, though it wasn't very good.

> That's funny interpretation, especially considering the collectivism part.
By this point you aren't even pretending at you have any idea what I'm talking about.
At least you do recognise that Orwell was a socialist, right?

I could be wrong, but I could fucking swear I remember seeing it said somewhere that a wing of the Lance included some Islamic vampires. Not all obviously, not like all vampires who actually believe in Christianity go full on in the Lance, but a religious wing of them.

If I remember later I'll page around 2e and various 1e books to see if I just dreamed that up or something.

> the Sanctified are explicitly drawn from a Roman doctrine based around the events of the crucifixion
"Tempters who work one the dark to keep Man on the godly path" thing makes even more sense in Islam, actually, so there's no reason for LS to not be an even bigger thing in the Middle East.

Sorry, i will clarify. What i meant by "doesnt give much of a shit" is that a big chunk of the country answer catholic on census but that because everyone takes the first comunion because you get money and you usually do it as a teenager but most dont practice it afterwards. Church here is pretty chill unless abortion comes up so it normally doesnt affect the day to day and religion is almost invisible. Political parties/figures get whole shrines in houses more than jesus.

I seen more houses with evita pictures that the virgin mary.

So the whole preacher in a tent thing seem alien to me or the fact that they all buy the covenant party line so ferviently. It seem More the US version of what they think catholiscism is than what it actually is.

> be a Fate/Entropy mage
> be a lucky bastard
> build a reputation around it (at least to the extent that a mage can in the sleeper world)
> educate people around you on the probability theory
> never have your magic be non-coincidental
Life's good.

> that gif
Welp, always forget not to post animated ones from the phone.

>By this point you aren't even pretending at you have any idea what I'm talking about.
If you think I'm wrong in my understanding of what are you talking about, try improving clarity of your statements.
>At least you do recognise that Orwell was a socialist, right?
Sure, I guess. Wikipedia says so, so it must be true :-/
I just read two of his books.

> Wikipedia says so, so it must be true :-/
Wow, you're pathetic.

Plus Islam includes Jesus as a prophet, no reason they'd not be amenable to the idea of Longinus as some kind of vampire prophet from Allah if presented right. It sounds like a pretty reasonable sect of the far reaching covenant to exist.

>Wow, you're pathetic.
Sorry, I forgot for a moment that you are a bit slower. I should have known that the smiley wouldn't be obvious enough for you.

> Islam includes Jesus as a prophet
The second most important, yeah. I just don't know how exactly does the Islamic version of Jesus work, so I avoided mentioning that.
But yeah, pretty much all Abrahamic religion work great with the concept of LS, just change a few names here and there and there you have it. There might even be a Vodoun version of LS.

I'm going to make a voodoo or muslim member of the Lance if I have to make a new character due to a bad case of death. They are going to spend a huge amount of time lamenting being the only one of their faith in the local covenant.

Pious Muslims are actually supposed to be pretty chilled around other people of the Book, aka every monotheist ever, since monotheism equals Islam regardless of specific trappings in their theology. Then again, it depends on the school. Wahhabi LS might as well be the explodypants sect.

>380 replies
what did i miss last thread? Was there something in the monday meeting?

No, we just had a great time shitposting.

>Butthurt athiest doesnt like how religion is literally perfect in WoD
>Numerous people refute him
>Nuh uh! but it is tho!
I am sorry but was this goof trying to find things to be offended at?

> thinking that it was about religion
Stupid!

Give me one good reason why a Vampire shouldn't think that all the Covenants suck and join the Freemasons instead.

>Secret handshakes
>Cool hats
>No political discussions
>Can eventually become a Shriner
>Possible crossover with upcoming Lizardman books

Freemasons have meetings during the day and try to help people, which deals aggravated damage to vampire ego

Apparently my group is doing a one-shot of Demon in a week or two. I've never even touched the book - what can I expect? My experiences are with V20, Mage the Ascension and Hunter the Vigil.

Which Demon?

Because all the cool splats already joined them so you dont wanna seem like a poser.

Should be The Fallen if I'm not mistaken - the group plays with the V20 ruleset so it's a logical leap.

Following that then, what's the differences between the two?

Fallen is utter trash, while Descent is the best line in CoD so far.
Long story short, Fallen is the usual oWoD gothic nonsense about crawling in my skin, while Descent is a magitech spionage game of gods and demons.

> crawling in my skin
To elaborate, your morality meter is literally the measure of how butthurt you are, and your goal in the game is to stop being butthurt (and maybe also not get eaten by a Cthulhu wannabe in the process). It's somewhat like Promethean in this regard, except that you don't even have any downsides to your condition and start the game stronger than most splats get after 50-100xp.

>gothic nonsense about crawling in my skin

>implying anyone plays WoD for anything else

To be fair, it's kind of hard to feel angst with demons. You're one of the race that literally created the world, and you have it all for yourself, with the only thing bothering you being where the fuck did Yahveh go, which, as far as existential crises go, is pretty tame. Really, old!demons were like prometheans in motivation, but like beasts in attitude.

...

A vampire who confronts his inner monstrosity by being a genuinely good person, who feeds responsibly, maintains regular contact with his touchstone, and kills horrible monsters that endanger humanity such as Werewolves.

>Fallen is the usual oWoD gothic nonsense about crawling in my skin
Its not that bad.

>Fallen is utter trash, while Descent is the best line in CoD so far.
its like bizzaro opinions.

I like both, though I think Fallen could use a new edition that steals some of the great stuff that wound up in Devil's Due later on.

>join the Freemasons instead

I, for one, have no desire to secretly serve mages...

>who feeds responsibly,
>committing lethal damage responsibly
>everyone you feed from might die and become a revanent
>maintains regular contact with his touchstone,
give them lots of willpower
>and kills horrible monsters that endanger humanity such as Werewolves.
werewolves do more to protect humanity than endanger it
even when hunting them

Don't worry, they're probably a mummy cult honestly. Much worse to work for

Werewolves are spirit world border patrol, they are the good guys. A vampire who wants to do good would be better off killing cults and captain planet villains

shrugs, depends on the wolf I guess. On the surface, how is one suppose to tell the difference or know that they are doing it for any betterment ?

>Werewolves are spirit world border patrol,

Werewolves, Making The Shadow Great Again!

Lizard man book?

The one horror that Chrodniggers cannot handle in their games.

Not child abuse.

Not rape.

Not total obliteration of existence.

A lack of verifiable statistical breakdowns for probability events assuming x number of die

OH THE HUMANITY

Well excuse me for wanting to know how useful character options are before committing to them

I don't get it. You mean pre-calculated tables included right in the rulebook? You can make them in thirty seconds with Excel.

What?
You're not even trying at this point, are you? I'm not even sure what you're trying to say.

What's with the picture, though? Is this one of those visual pun things? I forget what they're called. Rubrics?

>What?
>You're not even trying at this point, are you? I'm not even sure what you're trying to say.

I'm trying to point out the uncomfortable existence amongst your kind of this kind of person;
>Well excuse me for wanting to know how useful character options are before committing to them

hahaha, fuck storytelling, fuck collaborative experience. The true face of Chrod, ladies and gentlemen; more shylock than a rules lawyer, the Chrod-Darkie cannot abide a system that doesn't benefit him in hard stats. Why play a character that's interesting or even - gasp - fun? Not when you can autismo 500% and only take options that translate into backyard min-maxxing. Old World players are mocked for wanting a specific weapon for characterisation purposes, while aspie arguments amongst Chrodniggers over "best weapon" or "best Discipline" break out with every subsequent new edition. Behold your true face.

(yeah, no idea about the picture but I personally think someone went full Brucato on a street dealer... "I VOODOO CURSE THEE, TRAVIS "CHOCOLATE KRUNCH" O'HARA!!!")

>fuck storytelling, fuck collaborative experience

Storyteller isn't a great system for an actual narrative experience and the acknowledgement of such is the foundation of almost all modern games.

I'm sorry that you hitched your horse on an older version of an overall OK system just to yell at other people using a newer version of an overall OK system.

>Implying just because all modern games are now being narrative means that's the absolute way to do it
Relativism is for faggots

>overall OK system

Where? Is there a new version of Owod/Chrod?

>hahaha, fuck storytelling, fuck collaborative experience. The true face of Chrod, ladies and gentlemen; more shylock than a rules lawyer, the Chrod-Darkie cannot abide a system that doesn't benefit him in hard stats. Why play a character that's interesting or even - gasp - fun? Not when you can autismo 500% and only take options that translate into backyard min-maxxing. Old World players are mocked for wanting a specific weapon for characterisation purposes, while aspie arguments amongst Chrodniggers over "best weapon" or "best Discipline" break out with every subsequent new edition. Behold your true face.

What the fuck are you talking about?

>The big thing for me is that you can't have the Sabbat-Camarilla conflict in one coterie

Well, you can. It all depends on the individuals (and the city) in question, really.

That said, it's pretty rare (understatement of the century) for the Cammies and Sabbies to work together, unless there's a common foe that wants to see both sides dead.

Examples being; Large groups of Hunters, Werewolves (and other shapeshifters), Kuei-Jin and such.

I once ran a story in which the coterie was made up of two Camarilla, two Sabbat and one Anarch sympathizer, as they worked together to keep out a Kuei-Jin invasion force, centered around the chinatown district in London.

The biggest problem arises in keeping the group together *after* the fellow enemy is dead and buried OR after the group failed their job, but it *can* be done. Sometimes sloppily, sometimes elegantly.

It's all down to the individual Storyteller's skill (and that of the players, of course), provided none of the characters are of the "NO NEGOTIATION, KILL ALL THE WITHOUT DELAY!"-variety.

...The Sabbat has a lot of those, admittedly. Especially in the lower ranks.

If you don't like crossovers, any independent clan can function as a mutual enemy with sufficient resources to cause trouble. After all, Giovanni and Setites take organised crime with them as they go, nobody trusts a Ravnos and both they and the Assamites represent the thin tip of a very big wedge.

>keeping the group together *after* the fellow enemy is dead
Their common experience taught them all something their superiors might kill them over. Same way any vampires get to be friends.

So. In a Mage game I run, there is a character who agrees with the Exarchs, but not the Seers as an organisation.
Any advice on how to run that game?

Oh, and it's a Pentacle btw.

This is true, though many independent clans present problems serving as a "common enemy". That's not to say that those problems and obstacles can't be overcome, mind you.

For example, the Giovanni Clan and the Camarilla have a non-interference pact with one another, the "Promise of 1528". So, any official Camarilla agents must disguise their appearance or make sure the Giovanni aren't alive to report their involvement, otherwise the Camarilla's higher-ups are gonna call down the thunder on said member and present them to the Giovanni in a nice, gift-wrapped box.

The Assamites would work nicely, especially with the extremist Web of Knives faction who are all "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD, VAMPIRE SKULLS FOR THE THRONE OF HAQIM!". However, they'd probably be limited to areas in the Middle East and Africa for the most part, since that's where the major concentrations of Assamites are located.

Ravnos, much like the Sabbat, are for the most part not very high in numbers outside of Hindu/Indian-dominated areas. And if the story is set after the Week of Nightmares, the Ravnos are basically a non-threat, with only around a hundred members left (and no powerful elders, so 8th gen at most). Could be an invading force, though.

Followers of Set... probably the easiest one to incorporate, and a clan that everyone loves to hate. It's one of the few clans that the Camarilla and Sabbat alike could agree to exterminate, for various reasons. The Sabbat because the Followers of Set actively worship their Antedeluvian and seek to bring him back (which is anathema to the Sabbat), and the Camarilla because the Followers of Set keep trying to corrupt and take over the Camarilla's members and holdings. The Followers of Set are pretty widespread as well all across the globe despite their major holdings in Egypt, with even scandinavian branches like the "Hall of the Jormungandr" and the "Children of Loki" to use as possible enemies depending on the story's background city/country.

>Ravnos, much like the Sabbat

Whoops, meant to say "much like the Assamites".

Hunting down the Ravnos doesn't really make sense to be honest,considering they don't even keep in touch with others in the clan so there isn't even an enemy in the first place.

Also. Aren't they all extinct nowadays?

I was trying to ignore the Week of the Nightmares thing like most people do,but if your ST says it has already happened in your game,yeah they are.

Btw, how does V20 handle the Ravnos?
Also, is there any word on what nuWhiteWolf will do with them?

Their vices no longer have to be basic criminal acts,it can range from mass murders to helping kittens stuck in trees as there is no distinction on if their ''vices'' have to be a good moral act or not.
If you mean storywise,they were nearly exclusive to gypsies when they were first out.With every iteration it has become more of ''The clan mainly has indians,lots of gypsies but can be other races too''

So basically a guardian of the veil just replace magical jebus for exarch.

Not in the slightest. This character has gone along the lines of "But... most people ARE unworthy of Awakening! People need to be kept in check. The Exarchs are right!"

Is there a substitute to the Ravnos on VtR?Both chimersty and the vice stuff-vise.

Nothing direct, but a Daeva that picks up Nightmare might do the trick. Eventually Awe and Nightmare could be Devotioned into Chimestry-like effects.

>committing lethal damage responsibly
You can always have a ghoul working in a blood bank who can hook you up to tap of still warm sweet sweet 0+
>everyone you feed from might die and become a revanent
Only disgusting pleb who wants to catch something icky feeds directly from human, you are supposed to use single-use syringe, collect blood in wine glass and than savour it as civilized being, not like some animal.
>and kills horrible monsters that endanger humanity such as Werewolves.
True, werewolves are more entertaining game than foxes. Also fox hunting is now sadly much more regulated.

Does V:TR have example vampires in the GMing section? I'm in need of some simple vampire mooks

Chimerstry is closest replicated by Nightmare. Only everything has a horror-touch. You can't make the illusions not-scary with Nightmare.

In VtR 1E the Daeva were driven by their vices. This was changed in 2E, but they are still very passionate.
Over-all, I think the best would be to make a Mekhet bloodline.

>You can always have a ghoul working in a blood bank who can hook you up to tap of still warm sweet sweet 0+

Not in Requiem, you can't. Blood loses it's potency FAST. Only a lingering touch of the Vitae remains after the blood is no longer "living".

There were some in 1e if I'm not mistaken.

No statted vampires in 2e, just strix.

If it's just few minutes it's fine, more than few minutes and less than whole night it's cold blood (vampire needs to drink BP*2 pints of blood to get single vitae)

While you really shouldn't be encouraging active murderhoboing in CoD of all things, yeahhh, if the dude's already dismembering folk, I can't help but feel finishing the job is the NICE thing at that point...

Masquerade was great but it had a lot of problems, particularly as its run continued and it began to resemble undead superheroes fighting the apocalypse more than, well, a game about the trials, drama and personal horrors of a group of predators desperately clinging to what little humanity they have left.

Requiem has its ups and downs too, but it's definitely more 'grounded' on the whole and easier to play straight.

>Also. Aren't they all extinct nowadays?

Ehhh, not really.

While the Ravnos get assfucked during the Week of Nightmares and are reduced to only 100-ish members (and no elders, so no-one's higher than 8th gen), it's explicitly stated that the Antedeluvian's hold on the Ravnos disappears at the end of the Week of Nightmares, and the remaining Ravnos are free to do whatever they want.

So, the survivors (who are most likely trying to cope with vampiric PTSD and almost certainly having been forced to diablerize any fellow Ravnos that were nearby) are free to embrace and live their unlives as they see fit, and all that.

But in terms of the power and prestige they once held as one of the thirteen clans? Yeah, they're "extinct" in that regard. Now they're just a band of scattered refugees, rather than an actual clan.

>Btw, how does V20 handle the Ravnos?

Well, V20 is storyline agnostic, meaning Storytellers are free to ignore the Week of Nightmares (and any other major event in the WoD timeline) as they see fit. You wanna play the Ravnos pre-Week of Nightmares? Go ahead. You wanna play the Ravnos post-Week of Nightmares? Go ahead. You wanna play ANYTHING during WHENEVER? Go ahead.

>no elders, so no-one's higher than 8th gen

Ugh, sorry, I meant "LOWER than 8th gen".

I actually like the Generation system in VtM, but good god can it be confusing to talk about, heh.

>Free of the antedeluvian's and the elders grips
Holy fuck if Gehenna wasn't coming I could easily say they were the future of the vampires.
It's not even easy to hunt down the remaining ones because of their powers too

Can 2e kindred not tell when they're about to exsanguinate someone?

Besides, the feeding rules in VtR are dumb as hell. By the logic of the drained condition, just donating blood would do something like six points of lethal damage and a BP1 vampire would need to drink two blood packs to get even a single point of vitae.

The conditions automatically applied by the kiss are honestly more prohibitive to responsible feeding.

Also, not only would a vampire not know that Werewolves are good guy spirit detectives, most Werewolves are evil anyway. The Pure outnumber the Forsaken two to one I believe?

>resemble undead superheroes fighting the apocalypse

The best time in masquerade, i love masquerade as game of occult knowledge, dark magic, ancient powers and little politic sprinkled on top.

So, I'm running a cyberpunk OWoD (VtM specifically), and would like to know if anyone has any supernatural explanation ideas for pic related. I'm planning on making the story a bit about the world collapsing (Works for both cyberpunk and WoD, huh?), and wonder what I could use as a grand conspiracy to explain pic related in the setting.

VtR had a clan consisting of plague-bearers,although I can't remember their name with the exception of the first letter ''M''.I guess you could somehow put them in as a secret bloodline nobody knows about.

The Morbus. They're Mekhet and should be updated in the Dark Eras companion. I don't think they fit with the mysterious plague since they need living people to feed on. It's probably some Wraith related thing.

I wanna print a nice poster as a christmas gift for my girlfriend, anyone got a good WoD wallpaper that would look good?
She's a fan of Mage and Vampire, her favorite clan is Malkavian. I'd really appreciate it.

But that's not true of CofD, and everything that is true is true of almost all games.
>Old World players are mocked for wanting a specific weapon for characterisation purposes, while aspie arguments amongst Chrodniggers over "best weapon" or "best Discipline" break out with every subsequent new edition
Are you at all implying to me that oWoD players never did whatever they could to justify Celerity and Thaumaturgy? I don't even think anyone has ever brought up a "best weapon" outside of pointing out how ridiculous the M1 Garand was in 1e, but I never saw anyone use one.

Are you also implying that everyone who plays CofD is making their character based on the stats? Other than people wanting a certain power, I've rarely seen that, either, though I'll admit there are always people arguing that certain things are objectively better in every situation and that you should always go for Gnosis, or whatever. But, again, that's the same kind of thing that happens in oWoD as well.

And, frankly, every system.

You're not trolling very well.

Guardians wouldn't like the Exarchs. No one does. The Exarchs are literally oppression. They're the totalitarian state in a dystopia.
>"But... most people ARE unworthy of Awakening! People need to be kept in check. The Exarchs are right!"
Until that last line, that's literally the Guardian's philosophy. They see Magic as only being fit for the sturdiest of souls, and if you aren't one you don't deserve your toys.

That's not really even what the Exarchs do. They try to stop Awakenings simply because it's harder to control someone when they're no longer a sheep.