/5eg/ D&D 5th Edition General

When are are going to get high CR enemies?
More Tiamat and of her ilk.

"I refuse to sign because D&D should be what I want it to be or else it's not muh D&D and I'll go online and complain to everyone and threaten to go play Pathfinder."

>DM
no but that sounds neat if a bit hacky

>dnd.wizards.com/sites/default/files/media/upload/articles/UA Gothic Characters.pdf
>Monster Hunter
>Extra To-Hit & Damage
>Better Defenses
>Better Perception/Insight
>Detect Magic & Protection From Evil

It's interesting, but I'm not sure it gives you enough breadth.

>More of the same attack and damage stuff.
>Can now do interrogations/investigation missions better.
>Can see if something's magic but not do anything about it.
>Defensive buff & protection from possession

It helps a bit where social encounters are concerned, but does little for exploration, or combat encounter avoidance, or shaping combat encounters through more than hp damage, or infiltration, or party support.

Where's the Lords Alliance faction pack?

Those intros are pretty cool.

I want to be a big ol badass combat lad while still having some utility and out of combat stuff

That + firbolg would be enough I think. Kind of want to dip a level or so for some Rogue to get expertise on survival and perception

So pretty much any class that doesn't offer a full spellcasting progression

>"I refuse to sign because D&D should be what I want it to be or else it's not muh D&D and I'll go online and complain to everyone and threaten to go play Pathfinder."
"You refuse to acknowledge that you're actively avoiding all of the cool toys, and promise that you won't be a bitch to everyone else who took them? You can go right ahead and play pathfinder. We play that next week. It's the same way. What are you expecting from D&D: low magic fantasy? D&D hasn't supported that since the 70s, and none of us really dig that OSR stuff. If you wanted to play d20 Conan or HARNMaster/HARP, You should have voted for it when we were deciding what to play. They were options available to you, and the books are right there on my shelf. I even summed up what each system did before the vote."

Am I the only one who feels like it should be the wizards, clerics and druids that get knocked down to fighter/rogue level rather than having them dragged up to magic level? I think D&D is, for the most part, a pretty scrappy game, and these godlike spellcasters in the later parts of the game are the thing that stick out, not the humble sword-swingers who are just doing what D&D characters should do and can do from level 1.

Why couldn't Iron Heroes take off?

Question to DM's how often do you allow your players to use Homebrew classes? What makes you allow it?

No, you don't need to necessarily have everything on that list, but you certainly want more than 1 or 2 things you're capable of.

Ranger does pretty well, and so do Paladin and Bard.

I mean, if you want to build a character who really only does one thing, that's fine, just don't bitch about it later.

>Why couldn't Iron Heroes take off?
People want to play fantasy superheroes. In fairness, 5e really makes you wait a pretty long time for the game to become that.

Bard has a full spellcasting progression. The Paladin's spell list is almost entirely about doing what the Paladin already does with its class features. Ranger's spell list is also pretty much just a booster to the Ranger's innate abilities. Eldritch Knight's spell list is extremely small and focused for that matter.

Really, you're just talking about 9th level spellcasters here. Half-caster spell lists are very tailored.

So how viable is Grapplebarian? I really want to do a grapple build. Probably bearbarian because im gonna be secondary party tank. We have a moon druid

Stats are: 14 14 11 10 10 5

Possibly going Orc or Bugbear

Stop playing grapplers. They're stupid.

I review the homebrew class they want and gauge if it fits the setting they're playing in (with that, I'd shoot down Mercer's gunslinger if they're playing in, say, FR) and read up on word-of-mouth regarding its balance. I factor all of that and decide if it's good enough. I'm usually okay with that ultimately.

However, if they link me to dandwiki, that's a big fat "NO"

>5
>nothing above 14

That's some poor rolling nigga.

Rarely. The only situation where I'd allow it is if there's absolutely no other way to build the character concept they have, and even then I'd probably prefer to just homebrew to alter an existing class myself with input from the player.

But whyyyyy

>I think D&D is, for the most part, a pretty scrappy game, and these godlike spellcasters in the later parts of the game are the thing that stick out, not the humble sword-swingers who are just doing what D&D characters should do and can do from level 1.
I strongly disagree. Most of the classes are Tier 4 or better, Fighter and Rogue (maybe Barbarian) are the outliers.
I don't have a problem with low magic games. I just don't think that's D&D. The mundanes don't have enough interesting shit they can do to make it interesting, and they're arbitrarily capped in many areas at "real world limits" well after the point where you can best an ogremage 1 on 1.

I'm not sure why I never really got into Iron Heroes. I suspect it's because I already had d20 Conan and thought it did pulpy low-power fantasy much better.

Skills are pretty important throughout the game. I think you're underselling Rogues

>a thing not fitting into FR
don't rock gnomes make firearms?

have any of you successfully quietly magical realmed in a game?
included a low level fetish or waifu?

Because a not so insignificant amount of the D&D fanbase is of the Wizards rule, Fighters drool persuasion. They want to play an all powerful spellcasters with access to all the classic spells. They don't want that shit nerfed and "dumbed down".

But they also want a world populated by simple Fighters and other non-spellcasters. You can't buff them too much because it'd be unrealistic and you'd have weeaboo fightan magic where Fighters are just wizards with their inspirational healing, MMO maneuvers with cooldowns, defiance of the laws of physics, narrative powers, etc.

But magic is the exception because it's magic. Ain't gotta explain shit.

Yes it's a shitty line of argument, but it's the one they make, and a large part of why things are the way they are.

I usually allow it, but modify it so it can't be ridiculously overpowered. I tell the player that, yes, the concept is fine, but you can't summon a CR 2 creature under your command when you're level 1, that's retarded. Yes that's an actual feature from a class one of my players wanted to play.
The problem is, they'll see a class and not look at the balance, but once they build the character they'll brag about how they for some reason get 24 strength, and not expect me to pull them aside later and tell them they can't have that anymore.

Yes.

>don't rock gnomes make firearms?

Yes they do. In fact, Forgotten Realms is one of the few D&D settings where firearms are canon.

I'm more annoyed when they show up in Eberron, as part of its whole shtick is magic in place of technology (like Flinstones but magic instead of dinosaurs/rocks). You wouldn't have an actual gun in the setting. You'd invent a reusable blasting wand that you carried around in a wand holster- which Eberron already does.

Eberron is not steampunk/gaslight fantasy even if it shares some of the pulpy and noire aspects.

Forgotten Realms question, because I've never DMed a game in this setting or read about it at all. I modified an encounter and, well, the party's formed an alliance with a small orc tribe a bit southeast of Neverwinter. I'm talking like 7 orcs small. My question is, what could these orcs possibly ask of the party? They're so small that I can't come up with problems for them to have, but the half-orc in the party has pledged to do "anything they ask of him"

Yeah I'm planing on making my own homebrew. I'm going to make it underpowered to balance out that I am playing a class I made. Good to know thanks anons.

>Bard has full progression
So it does. I've yet to use them in 5e.

>Paladin
>1. Murderness
Check.
>2. Exploration
>Tree Stride, Dimension Door, Misty Step, Avenging Angel, Dispel Magic
Check.
>3. Investigation
>Detect Good & Evil, Detect poison & Disease, Purify Food and Drink, Zone of Truth, Locate Object, Protection From Poison, Commune with Nature, Scrying
Check.
>4. Infiltration
Nope
>5. Interrogation
>Zone of Truth, Intimidation, Persuasion
Check.
>6. Social Skills
>CHA, Persuasion
Check.
>7. Combat Avoidance
Nope.
>8. In-Combat Utility
>Compelled Duel, Dispel Magic, Banishment, Turn the __, Nature's Wrath, Hold Monster, Abjure Enemy, Relentless Avenger, Avenging Angel
Check.
>9. Party Support
Magic Weapon, Elemental Weapon, Raise Dead, Lay on Hands, Auras, Cleansing Touch, Protection From Energy, Hunter's Mark*
Check.

So there's 7/9 on the Paladin.

I call bullshit on the "only full casters can do most of the things on that list with any degree of success".

was hoping for more than that

Read .

Fighterfags are the ones keeping the fighting man down. They don't want nice things, and throw a fit if you don't offer character options without them.

Rogues are definitely more capable than fighter. Those skills help them quite a bit. The question is whether they're in the same league as Paladins.

Check the Paladin's rate of gaining spells and how many of those spells are tied to specific oaths. Paladins are not really utility characters.

>out of panic, accidentally sent my players back in time
>takes place in the city they've been adventuring in in the past few real-life months
>timeline overlaps the time their past selves were taking on a big criminal organization conspiracy
>a day later their past selves would have them leave the city and pursue an adventure in a neighboring kingdom before returning after 2 days
>panic.jpg
>players decide they should respect the rules of time travel
>they're excited as fuck
>I'm panicking
>they respect the timeline and dont' do any random shit
>they do, however, some random shit that explain some random shit that happened in their previous adventures
>"Hey, so that's why there was a random bar brawl in the nearby inn! WE STARTED IT!"
>they use this time to save an NPC who was reported dead but he wasn't dead all this time cause their future selves saved NPC
>all shit leads them back to the point their past selves travel back in time
>they take over and complete the loop
>"DAMN user THAT WAS GOOD! HOW DID YOU DO THAT?! SO GREAT! YOU MUST'VE PLANNED THAT SHIT OUT!"
>mfw the whole entire thing

I'm not doing that again. I had no notes, I was winging everything and I just scrapped any piece of opportunity my PCs did to give them the sense that they were truly in a time traveling adventure with time loops and shit.

But damn, my PCs were so good to me keeping that shit in check.

D&D is the game that supports high-powered magic fantasy gaming. When I want to play low-powered gritty fantasy, I've got like 8 other games do it much better.

You silly billy. When time travellers start to fuck up the last, you're supposed to arrange events and outcomes so that their messing with shit is what causes the original events to happen in the first place. The only reason things happened "first go around" and put them in a position to go back in time is because they had already gone back in time and did all that shit.

Yeah I didn't word it right but there were many moments that the PCs did just that that had them go "OH SHIT"

The worst is when people talk about gritty, low-magic fantasy "like Conan" and completely forget that Conan was an armor-and-shield Barbarian/Rogue with almost no magic-users running around and he routinely threw people straight through walls and performed feats of martial strength and badassery that the average DM would say "that's physically impossible and not supported in the rules" to.

Paladins gain spells slowly, and if they don't burn slots on smite, their damage is lower than a Fighter or a Rogue. Like, you're presenting this idea that Paladins are going to use most of their spells for utility purposes. That's cool if they do, they have that possibility, but it comes at a cost. Spell slots are at a fucking premium for partial casters.

Some of those are tied to specific oaths. True.
And yes, they gain them much slower than full casters. But most of hte lists in each category start at low level effects and work their way up, which is to say, the things he can do, he can do pretty early.

Sure, he's got limited spell access at any given time, and not a ton of slots. I'm not debating that. He can't do the utility things all day.

But he DOES have them.

Sure. Conan's not gritty. It's Pulpy low magic fantasy. I have a list of better games for that too. It's not the same list.

>> I'm arguing as one those people who have ridiculous ideas about muh D&D is/isn't.
>
> And one of those ideas is making sure non-spellcasters PC classes are in the game, but making sure they have to suck in terms of options/flexibility (and sometimes outright power) compared to caster classes.
>
> "Because muh gritty realism and vermisilitude!"
>
> You can't placate such people by leaving out non-caster classes or by making non-casters capable of awesome shit. It's a catch 22.

He has them, but they're so limited that most of their value is trumped by having any other full spellcaster in the party. Full spellcasters have slots to burn fulfilling utility duties. That's what more than half of your slots are going to be towards as a full spellcaster, because the best use of your spells is enabling your other party members.

His damage doesn't have to be optimal, if the utility is worthwhile. His damage can merely be "quite adequate".

That's why I've always wanted to multi-class paladin with sorcerer or bard or warlock

more slots for smites and their awesome spells.

What would work best? I kinda lean warlock.

3 warlock would give you cantrips, invocations, the first ability from your patron (like temp health on kill or telepathy) and two second level spell slots per short rest, and also some warlock spells, and for your pact boon you could get a fucking awesome familiar that adds so much to your disposal or get three cantrips and some rituals from any class

>These rules are strictly fantasy. Those wargamers who lack imagination, those who don't care for Burroughs' Martial adventures where John Carter is groping through black pits, who feel no thrill upon reading Howard's Conan saga, who do not enjoy the de Camp * Pratt fantasies or Fritz Leiber's Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser pitting their swords against evil sorcereries will not be likely to find DUNGEONS and DRAGONS to their taste. But those whose imaginations know no bounds will find that these rules are the answer to their prayers. With this last bit of advice we invite you to read on and enjoy a "world" where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!
Can you imagine Barsoom stories if everything worked the way the average D&D table operates?

>John Carter leapt at Thurid, but the ledge was more than six feet high, so the DM required an Athletics check, DC 15. Unfortunately, John was only second level, and so had a roughly 50% chance of face-planting into the hard stone, falling prone, and wasting his turn.
>A random Wizard flew out of nowhere under his own power and incinerated six tharks.

His damage will be higher than a monk's, I suppose, but Smite is a cornerstone of the Paladin's combat presence. It's what keeps them in the game with other damage dealing classes. All fighters are going to be bigger threats by default. Monster Hunters and Eldritch Knights can also have good utility without sacrificing their combat superiority. Smite is absolutely necessary to stand on equal terms. If you're not going to use Smite, then you're basically just a crappy heavy armor cleric.

How do I make BestPaladinBro?

what, image, ants etc

As a player the best sign I'll have a good time is getting a bit of a buzz, the bestest sign is when the DM has a solid idea and fellow players give a damn.

As a DM when I did D20 Modern games I had The Chainsaw Vigilante show up once. The party was in a highrise office stealing important files and rescuing a friend turned unwilling lab rat by evil megacorp. The party first heard screaming coming from an elevator then as the doors opened they saw him doing his thing on a bunch of villanous mooks. I left a beat to let the players to soak in the moment. Then one PC blew out his leg with a shotgun crit followed by a grenade tossed in as the elevator doors shut before any other player had a chance to react. The rest of the party was a bit annoyed they had to take the stairs since the elevator was exploded. As for 5e I've really just done AL stuff since I've got the itch to run games but not really time to plan.

All those auras.

I do agree though, Smite eating your spell slots kindof sucks.

...

Warlock so your slots refresh on a short rest rather than a long one.

Paladin Auras are superfucking nice, and the only reason you might get away with not spending slots on Smite.

Yeah since I do spot DMing when the normal DM is in prep phrase, I usually incorporate shit that amuses me. Out of my last 3 one shots, One had the players dealing with the Scooby Gang, and another had them plot the assassination of JFK. The JFK assassination plot was just a set up so I could make a shitty grassy Gnoll joke with the second gunman conspiracy theory.

Thanks brah.

Is this nigga kidding? Monster Hunter actually gives Fighters a lot of the non-combat options they desperately need while keeping them at the top of the combat game. And I say combat, not just damage. The improved defenses help immensely, and the bonuses to key skills can make them your go-to guy for those skills.

Pretty much the only thing the package could ask for is Dispel Magic. Still need to find a good way to tack that on somehow, but otherwise you're looking at a solid class that can contribute in many more situations than usual.

What are all the class standardized this edition?
Same proficiencies and shit across the board.

Why* are all the classes* standardized this edition?

>What are all the class standardized this edition?

Warlock is intriguing because you can pick up shillelagh and have both your ranged and melee attacks use charisma.

My experience has been that short rests are often not incorporated well into the game, which encourages going nova in every combat. In that scenario, a full caster like Bard gives you more spell slots to burn in a single go.

Yes, they remain at the top of the >Murder Stuff game because of their damage and defenses.

Yes, they're good for spotting hidden creatures, and yes they're good at detecting lies. (you'll note the skill bonuses don't apply in other situations).

But of the 9 categories of shit I listed that a class like paladin can do 7, monster hunter's still only doing like 3.

Are we just pretending that Paladins can cast smite with other classes spell slots, or am I missing something here?

From the phb: "you can expend one paladin spell slot to deal radiant damage to the target, in addition to the weapon's damage."

...

>Same proficiencies and shit across the board.
What did he mean by this?

Let's do some math here eh? full disclosure I barely made it past high school algebra

Say you're level 5.

Pure paladin. Most paladins probably use sword and board, as you don't have action surge or the ASIs/feats or the single attribute stuff like fighters have to make greatswords worth it.

two attacks, 1d8+4 1d8+4, min damage 10 max damage 24 from both attacks. If you took dueling, which you may have, up that to 14 - 28.

four 1st two 2nd level slots. if all those are used for smites, against non fiend/undead, that's 14d8 damage over all the slots being used purely for smiting.

Now we need to do a paladin warlock. I'm going to say we went 2 pally 3 lock.

You only have one attack, and no ASI, so assuming sword and board 1d8+3. Let's say you took tome and grabbed GFB. That's 1d8+3 + 1d8 reliably, also getting a 1d8+cha on an enemy within 5ft of your target but I'm not going to count that in your damage. Min Damage 5, max damage 19. Dueling would bump that up to 7 and 21.

You have two 1st level paladin spell slots, and two Warlock 2nd level slots. Blowing all of those is 10d8 worth of damage, BUT your 2nd level lock spells come back fully on a short rest. For every short rest you get 6d8 damage of smite. One short rest and that's more smite damage than the level 5 paladin.

also you could arguably use an invocation'ed eldritch blast to supplement your damage when not smiting. 1d10+3 and 1d10+3 isn't anything to laugh at.

this post maybe have been pointless but it was fun. someone pls respond

You are like a year + behind my friend, errata 1.0

sageadvice.eu/2014/12/11/paladin-use-warlock-spell/

Of the 9 categories you listed a Paladin can maybe do those once if (insert Bard, Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer, Wizard) decides he's too good for that this encounter.

Shit, that's a glaringly big error to miss before publishing the phb, but thanks for the correction.

SO I 'm guessing most have already given the Kobold, orc and goblin adventurers a swing from volos guide, but how well to Yuan-Ti or the rest play?

Like half the shit on this list is just for Ancients Paladin

>Paladin Warlock Multiclass

I am quite interested in this. Care to spell out a full build?

I'm also very interested in seeing what kind of utility you can pack into the build for different types of adventuring situations a la .

A bunch of them are for Ancients Paladin, yes. If you're not going ancients, IIRC you still fill out the 7 categories, just less well. Some categories you may only have a single trick for.

Wasn't saying a full caster didn't have better utility. Obviously they do. I was saying that Paladin is a more reasonable bit for the low end of utility than your typical fighter.

#
Just gonna ask, how would one run a game based on the pic? There was the Lankhmar book for 2e, but would that kind of game be too Low Fantasy for 5e?

Why are PCs built following one rule while NPCs and monsters are designed to different rules?

Look dude, I'm all for pumping up the Paladin, it's my favorite class. They're not a problem solver class, though. They just don't have the resources. Hell, look at your list, most of those are spells or special features from one oath or another. Very limited stuff. I won't say any fighter class has more utility, but I will say from experience that certain types of fighters are within the same ballpark. Especially because most skill DCs are rather low this edition, so just having a non-negative bonus and proficiency is enough to pass reliably.

You can use the 2e setting book just fine. The stats aren't directly usable, but the setting is.

Lankhmar is kindof low-powered in comparison to 5e, at the upper levels, but you could always just say you're running the whole campaign in a lower level range. Then you should be good to go.

Maybe draw out level advancement to slow the pacing of levelups.

Because most monsters/npcs are designed to be taken on by an entire group.

well personally I think full builds are pointless.

99% of games end before level 10. Sad truth, but a truth.

So, you want something that will be fun and effective at the "main" range of play, which is imo 1-8ish.

You def want to start paladin, you are doing nothing but losing proficiencies starting warlock. I would say you want your first (2nd) level in paladin for a fighting style, smites, and spells.

Another level in paladin is big too, channel divinity plus free spells known is a pretty big deal.

from here on I'm not sure what to do. The big point of Paladin-Warlock is getting more SMITES, more utility, more things to do.

Multiclassing in 5e kinda fucking sucks due to stuff like extra attack being essential. However IMO palalock has a saving grace in Agonizing Blast Eldritch Blast. Cantrips scale with character level, not class level. So instead of getting somewhat neutered with one attack at level 5 you get two 1d10+CHA attacks that deal a very rarely resisted damage type.

Unfortunately, you can't smite with Eblast. So IMO, optimally you'd use a shield and Eblast most of the time, then pull out your weapon for smites when you want to melee.

Don't really know how to do the rest of this "build". I think I would pick Tomelock for GFB and some other cantrips plus rituals. Alternatively a familiar would be a huge boon for scouting and utility stuff.

Some munchkin pls help

They're meant to be damage soakers?

When the Barbarian asks "can I do X", you say "Yes". That's pretty much it.

You can do some fun stuff if you focus CHA and neglect your strength, leaving enough to use heavy armours. Pick up Shelliegh through the tome, use it with a club and shield. Doesn't fix the multi attack problem but it does make you less MAD, though the levels leading up to that are probably going to be rough.

Partly. It's also why the monster/npc variant of certain abilities are usually more effective/powerful

Because it's much easier on the DM (and the system as a whole) that way. The DM has total freedom with NPC design, while the PCs are given a system with boundaries to maintain balance between each other and those NPCs based on CR.

>99% of games end before level 10. Sad truth, but a truth.
Not my experience, but okay.
>"main" range of play, which is imo 1-8ish.
Aand there's why. Do you really always start at 1? We almost never start below 6, sometimes starting at 7 or 8. I haven't had a campaign that started below 6 (as a player or DM) in like, 3 years. (That one did start at 1).

>5e Multiclassing woes. Extra Attacks
Yeah, I'm not super happy with that. They should stack, for sure. I expect next campaign I GM will be more multiclass-friendly. We shall see what I come up with when the time comes.

>Eldritch Blast scales by character level, not class level.
Oh, good point.
So, what if you don't give a fuck about extra attacks and smite, and use Eldritch Blast as your primary attack?

Do you mean levels vs assigned numbers?

Or do you mean high HP for monsters and low for PCs, and high damage for PCs and low for monsters?

>So, what if you don't give a fuck about extra attacks and smite, and use Eldritch Blast as your primary attack?

Then you may as well just be a warlock?

point of multi-classing warlock is to be a paladin with more utility/versatility and Smites. Can't smite with EBLast.

But even if you take Tome and grab GFB Eblast is better for avg damage. Like I said, you'd be eblasting most the time then pulling out a weapon when it comes time for melee and dumping your smites.

I wouldn't go over a 3 level dip in warlock personally. Not much reason to. Maybe 1 level to snap an ASI but warlock kinda sucks desu

how does anyone feel about letting martial classes extra attack(s) use total martial level instead of class level?
say, paladin 3/ fighter 2 get's extra attack right there and going paladin 6/fighter 5 gets you extra attack (2), or something like that?

it kinds of feel silly that cantrips scale with total level yet extra attack doesn't.

and on that subject how to make multiple spellcasting classes multiclass less shitty, i know you get full spell slot progression but outright losing maximum spell levels is awful. i don't expect a cleric 10/wizard 10 to be as good a either a cleric 20 or a wizard 20 but having only lv6 spells for a total level 20 character is silly, given he is technically a full spellcaster (with 9th level spell slots).

It is a bit silly but extra attacks are better than damage scaling cantrips by a large margin, with agonizing blast eblast being the exception.

Scaled firebolt is one attack, 2d10. Extra attack gives you two attacks, if using a greatsword that'd 2d6+STR + 2d6+STR. Big difference. More chance to hit/crit, much much higher avg damage, higher max.

Even extra attack with sword and board is more damage than a scaled cantrip save for EBlast

I would be good with that. Absolutely. Wouldn't stack martial levels though, because, for instance, Rogue doesn't get it.

But for any class that gets them? Absolutely.

Not sure what to do about the casters.