Why is Abbadon perceived as a joke?

Why is Abbadon perceived as a joke?
How do make him scary?

>Give him arms.

>Make him competent.

>Replace him.

Choose two. No more, and no less, two is the number you must choose.

>Why is Abbadon perceived as a joke?

Memes, like clearly shows

From the perspective of someone who has very little idea about 40k and this guy's feats, he feels like a huge downgrade in terms of threat level compared to Horus, other Primarchs that fell to chaos etc.
No bully pls.

In lore is he actually more powerful than the traitor primarchs as he is not a daemon and bound to any one god.

It's just cancerous memes. The fact that this dankest of memes survived this lone is proof that the Imperial side of the fanbase are cancer incarnate

Idiotic memes based around a poorly balanced miniature and an implication that was never there.

Memes mainly. That and chaos fags being inherently cancerous that any attempt to take them down, no matter how asinine, is jumped upon.

Just mrmes.
All the other 40k Memes are dead by now, this one only survives because it makes chaosfags buttblasted, or at least imperiumfags like to think that it does.

Some got triggered by an earlier post, looks like. The push back at the meme happened recently. For the longest time Imperial cancer kept going at it because they can.

First the model often did loose its arms, at least the metal version, which led to armless.
It does not help the model is from 2nd and is a bit smaller then current plastic termis.

Furthermore while his previous 12 Black Crusades were somewhat successfull, some of the less reading-able people assumed he tried to storm to terra 12 times, falsely declaring all them complete failures.

Third compared to regular GW-SM fanwank he is a more realistic hero with ups and downs rather then I-succeed-at-everything-coz-I-am-SUPERMARINE loyalist jokes (Calgar, Grimnar etc) making him seem less then the GREATEST HEROS EVAH.

He has lead the forces of a faction of monsters from another dimension with UNLIMITED POWAH form millenia, but hasn't been able to destroy/conquer a crumbling Empire that is so rife with incompetence and non-Warp corruption, that it is more of threat to itself than anyone else. Horus was able to make the Break the Big E's legs with his little tantrum, before he was punted out existence.

How to fix:

1. Tone down the UNLIMITED POWAH part of Chaos:When you have that much power, than any failures will always be seen as incompetence on your part.

2. Let him be be tactically compentent and able to effictively lead his forces for at least a single battle without them trying to kill each other over stupid shit: When an army doesn't listen to their leader, it reflects badly on him and makes him look like a shitty leader.

3. Let him conquer things and just be like "kill and burn everything" and stay away from doing anything really edgy: Being overly Edgy is the number one way to not be taken seriously by anyone on this board. ie. the DEldar

Maybe if he takes the powers he's been given by the Chaos Gods, and managed to run off with them?

That could work. A sort of "Fuck you, I ain't nobody's bitch! I got my own hopes and Dreams! I'm a rebel with out a cause!" Outlook.

>He has lead the forces of a faction of monsters from another dimension with UNLIMITED POWAH form millenia

This real bad fluff knowledge. Abaddon doesn't have unlimited power, and the Chaos Gods attention is mostly on the Great Game of Chaos. Rarely do they pay attention to the galaxy. Abaddon started his quest with 3 marines, 1 Dark Eldar, and 1 daemon puppy. He had to build it all from this and deal with the madness of the daemon and gods. Picture related better explains it.

> Let him be be tactically compentent and able to effictively lead his forces

He did it 12 times. Each Crusade as successful and achieved its objective more or less.

Your problem is you are retarded. I am sorry. A basic understanding of Chaos lore is what you are lacking.

I think the bigger issue is people taking Imperium perspective as objective perspective. When a Black Crusade is successful in wiping out an entire sector and pulling it into the warp, the Imperium just purges any record of that sector and denies that it ever existed. In that way, Abaddon never appears to win from the Imperium's perspective.

The High Lords of Terra are said to live in fear from the Abaddon and day when he will replay the events of the HH, And he is the only enemy of Imperium who got a tarot card made of him.

Anyone can see that the higher ups of the Imperium know full well his threat.

>Why is Abbadon perceived as a joke?
Decades of lore that implied that the Black Crusades were a long string of failures, and a shitty portrayal in the Heresy books.
Now even though they changed it to them all having different, successful goals, the attitude of him being a failure is so ingrained in the memes that he'll never be seen differently.

>Picture related better explains it.
>quoting ADB

the goals of the crusades were big to deny. And at least some have been undeniably achieved.
-Destruction of that fleet base
-Capturing/destroying the blackstone fortresses
-Getting the daemon sword
for examples

>Decades of lore that implied that the Black Crusades were a long string of failures,

Actually, the oldest Abaddon lore I said was a WD article from 3th ED by I think Andy Chambers.

It's titled "ABADDON THE VICTORIOUS". He speaks about the Black Crusades and how they are preprocessors for the big plunge towards Terra. I think the failure here is from the fans, not the writers.

>How do make him scary?
Advance the plot

Worked with Archaon. Now he is killing gods and destroying universe.

>How do make him scary?
you can't "make" him scary

they tried to do that with archaon, and failed real fuckin' hard

>Implying

Whenever Archaon pops up in AoS, people are on their toes waiting to see his next ANIIIIIME moment.

>Erf, the 12 black crusades were actually successful
>Abbadon won by losing 12 times in a row
We'll talk about that once he reaches Terra, because right now the crusades are nothing more than the jokes people say about them.
Abbadon is not a threat because the 40k setting is almost frozen in time, you can't create an impending sense of doom if nothing progresses.

>>Abbadon won by losing 12 times in a row

What's your measure for losing? Each Crusade had an objective that he achieved which ultimately led him and his legion to gain more power, resources, and favour from the gods. All of them were meant as prep strikes before the 13th Black Crusade which is the only Crusade meant to topple Cadia and go straight to Terra.

He is the only one gaining from the crusades while the Imperium is losing resources and growing weaker.

Again, basic fluff missed for no reason.

In old Lore he was a total failure, warmaster of chaos that can't do shit. Arms of his miniature(from Forge World) very often fall of the min.
But everything has changed since 6ed. There you have information that all 12 black crusades were preparation for the last, 13 black crusade. Also all his failed 12 black crusades are now succesfull, he achivved his goals.
So this are old memes, no longer accurate(but still funny).

>In old Lore he was a total failure,

Not true. Show me where in the old fluff they are said to be failures?

Or new fluff is plain bullshittery to prop up a total failure.

>How do make him scary?
Destroy Cadia.

Or in reality old and new fluff is pretty much the same but anons cannot into reading.

Black Crusade series has begun with "Traitor's Hate". It might end with Cadia blowing up.

I mean they screwed over the Eldar in Death Masque. Screwing the Imperials isn't fat fetched.

>you can't make any conclusions unless explicitly told so
user, please.

>It might end with Cadia blowing up.
But it won't.

The old fluff, didn't say they were failures. Quite the opposite.

So you are clearly mistaken. Your behaviour is also of someone in the wrong.

And you know this how?

Him conquering Cadia, before suddenly turning around the plugging the Eye of Terror would be cool. Seeing as if Chaos consumes the galaxy, he won't have one to rule.

>ITT: triggered chaosfags

Failbaddon is incompetent and everyone knows it

>The old fluff, didn't say they were failures.
The old fluff made the mistake of describing him as a badass, while having all of his plans fail completely like some kind of goddamn cartoon villain. Also his disdain for Horus after his death just made him seem like a whiny douchbag, and not a ruthless leader.
This is where the memes started.

>The old fluff made the mistake of describing him as a badass, while having all of his plans fail completely like some kind of goddamn cartoon villain. Also his disdain for Horus after his death just made him seem like a whiny douchbag, and not a ruthless leader.

Again I say, where exactly? From what I read in the "old fluff", it says the opposite. It says Abaddon emerges stronger after each crusade. After each Crusade, the Chaos Gods offer him daemonhood for his service.

Let's compare actual historical crusades to black crusades:
>rival kings and high noblemen constantly jockeying against each other and failing to co-ordinate their forces
>the enemy was a decayed and disunited empire which gradually reinvigorated itself through the crusading era
>10 big official numbered crusades and numerous smaller un-numbered operations
>exactly one was a clear victory and actually took Jerusalem
>others vary from moderate successes that strengthened the Latin position in the Levant, through draws, to counterproductive debacles
>don't forget the 4th Crusade, which blundered around the Western Med fighting fellow Christians and running out of money and supplies until it sacked the greatest Christian city in the world

Honestly, Abby's record doesn't look so bad.

>Honestly, Abby's record doesn't look so bad.
He doesn't really have one clear, defining victory. Just a bunch of scrambling around before high-tailing it back to his country with the navy on his heels. Not too dissimilar to the real crusades, but those do have the sacking of jerusalem to their name.

It's taken the biggest retcon in the game's history to *maybe* create one clear victory for abbadon. People see him as a joke because he's literally just twenty years of hot air.

It's all in the looks.
Look at Archaeon, even in AoS he still looks intimidating as fuck. He is a champion of chaos, and it shows.
Abaddon on the other hand just looks retarded, his ludicrous topknot doesn't help either.

Again, where is the retcon? I have a folder with nearly all 40K rulebooks and I read the Chaos lore. Show me where.

Also Abaddon sacked a lot of planets and strongholds of the Imperium during his crusades. Each crusades ends with thousands of worlds burned and looted.

But Archaon has a topknot now!

>Proofstering this hard for your shitty husbando

Are you the top chaos Spehss marine in the entire Eye of Terror as well?

>He doesn't really have one clear, defining victory.
Literally every Black Crusade achieved its objectives, though.

I mean you made a claim and I have the books right in front me. All I want from you to point where it comes from.

If you cannot give proofs, then claims is null, comrade.

1st Crusade: Abbadon raids a bunch of Imperial Worlds with token defenses. A bunch of worlds that no one would remember existed if Abby hadn't hit them out of the countless Imperial worlds are destroyed, Abby gets a magic Sword, and the Imperiums decides "Hurr, maybe we should fortify Cadia to keep them from getting out."

2nd Crusade: Abby does some voodoo, Tzeenchian, curse magic that releases a plague on one planet, bombs bunch of ships while they're being repaired, and fucks back off into the Warp before the Imperium does anything. A couple random worlds are broken, and ships are blown up.

3rd Crusade: Abbadon sends a Demon Prince and his buds to Banzai charge the Cadian gate, distracting the Imperium so that he can Fulfill his Master plan of... Destroying some random saint's body because of an Imperial Prophecy/folklore that he would come back from the dead to fuck with Chaos later (like the story of King Arthur coming back from the grave, and probably just as likely to be true). If wasn't for "LOL DEMONS CAN'T BE PERMANENTLY KILLED! UNLIMITED POWAH!" Abbadon would be regarded as a failure for wasting troops So he could kill ONE out of COUNTLESS Imperial worlds around.

4th Crusade: Abby has his forces lead an attack against heavily fortified World. His armies get slaughter, including a bunch of his personal elite terminator body gaurds, but he wins anyway through because Magic Sword. One Stronghold world is ravaged, but but Abby's Armies are decimated from having charged into the meat grinder. although some of those casualties are negated because they were Demons so "Lol, technically immortal, UNLIMITED POWAH", there are still quite a few non-renewable forces dead for one world, especially considering that Abby doesn't have huge stores of Geneseeds lying around, and that cultists rarely live long enough or even consider having kids.

Cont. I've got 8 more of these Babies to do.

The 11th Crusade was kind of a fuck up.

>If I talk like a retard it makes my point stronger.

-butthurt and illitrate Imperialfag

Starting with the First Crusade, its main objective was to break the demoralisation of the Legions and ignite the Long War. The Chaos Legions were inspired by Abaddon's example and ceased their focus on their self destruction and misery. Abaddon reignited their hatred for the Imperium and this truly began the age of the CSM raids and wars against the Imperium.

So Abaddon is the very reason why the CSM are such a great threat to the Imperium they are today.

And i cannot bother going on all of them. This is all in the Black Legion supp.

>where is the retcon?
we're on the 14th crusade, dumbass

Ah..you're talking about the Eye of Terror campaign? I thought you are talking about the Black Legion supp.

5th Crusade: Abby decides to do an Encore of his performance, and attacks bunch of randomn imperial worlds because why not. Although, to his Credit, Abby does use his brain this time And manages to trick the WarHawks and Venerators Space Marines into being sandwiched between DoomBreed and his Bloodletters, and His Black Legion. Aside from this act of Tactical intelligence and Competence that resulted in the annihilation of 2 SM chapters, This run just ended to same as the first with a bunch of Imperial Worlds in a random sector being destroyed, and Abby just fucking off when he was done.

6th Crusade: Abby decides to mend his frosty relationship with Drecarth and his Sons of the Eye and invites them all to a day of Fun fucking up an Admech Forge World. At the end of the run, Abbadon Kills Drecarth ands tells his Sons of the Eye "You my Bitches now". This supposedly had the effect of making an example of Drecarth to prevent future betrayal, but all he did was pull out Drecarth's spine which is rather tame as far as Chaos goes. Also a random AdMech world got it's shit pushed in.

7th Crusade: Abby decides to stop fucking around with this Crusade and actually goes for weakening the Cadian gate as a whole. This Begins the "Ghost War" where Abby and friends Veitnam it up guerilla warwar, lightning raids, and just generally being a pain in the ass. Again, to Abby's Credit, this was a pretty good plan, but The gate was too well held. It's also worth mentioning that on Mackan, a Blood Angel named Jorus is stuck with his Bros cut off from supplies, and so decided to give Abby a taste of his own medicine. Jorus and his bros die, but not before He clocks Abby. Abby, in a rare display of Honor and Civility, has The Bodies of Jorus and his Bros placed on Thrones made from the terminator bodyguards they killed. Al the Other Blood Antels weren't so lucky. Eventually, Abby figures this isn't working and fucks of back to the Eye of Terror, with Cadian gate still standing.

You are actually reading this off the lexicanum/warhammer wiki? Fuck sake.

>Abaddon started his quest with 3 marines, 1 Dark Eldar, and 1 daemon puppy
And look at him now, one of the biggest DMs in galaxy.

Because until GW changed it he had 13 crusades that accomplished somewhere between dick and all. You can tell newfags because they'll claim that "Nuh uh! He totally accomplished something every time." That was a recent change, and you know it. He's been incompetent for so long, I don't think any amount of changes could fix that ingrained image. It's like seeing that guy who was a loser in high school pick up a muscle car and leather jacket. Yeah, thats cool and all, but you still ate chalk in 9th grade and no one is gonna forget that.

Also, his model is pretty bad, and the metal version was not made very well. I think I've seen him with his arms attached exactly once. Seeing a model without its arms to the point where you just immediately think "Abaddon the Armless" makes him seem kind of silly.

Also pretty sure Creed outsmarting him all the time with "tactical genius" didn't help either. Your claim to scariest chaos dude is kind of forfeit the moment a regular human outsmarts you, even if he is practically the reincarnation of solar macharius.

I don't think you could ever restore his scariness now. Any attempt to do so sounds like Abaddon desperately proclaiming to his followers "Nuh uh! I was only PRETENDING to be retarded!"

8th Crusade: Abby decides to go Full Riddler and Undertakes a bunch of random killings And Brutalities to form some sort of secret messages to Suck up to Tzeench. The amount of Confusion and "all according to Keikaku" that this creates tickles Tzeench Pink. He promises unknown benefits to Abbadons plans in the future which means...fuck all actually. But hey it was fun and he got to wreck some shit.

9th Crusade: Abby want's to raid another Sector without being annoy Imperium's navy there, so he goads the naval planet into a seventeen year long war that drains their resources by slaughtering the Capital Hive City of a neighboring world. The High Lords decide to call for some Marine chapters to help. The Lamenters and and Mortifactors get assigned to Corrillia, but the Mortifactora bug out because they don't want to catch the Lamenter's Bad luck Bug. The Lamenters decide to Martyr themselves and keep defending. The cavalry eventually arrives the UltraSmurfs and the Biker Mongolians, but not before they are slaughtered down to 200 Marines. The Whit Scars and Ultramarines break through the Chaos Warfleet, but Abby declares "mission accomplished" and heads home to the Eye of Terror.

10th Crusade: Abby wants to raid an area of space that happens to include the homeworld of the Iron Hands, Medusa, and invites Perturabl along because he doesn't get to go out very often because he doesn't have any friends. Perturabo agrees and brings along his Iron warriors. Together, they drive Iron Hands to the brink of destruction, but the Imperial reinforcements arrive before they can. So Crusade, again, ends with Abby fucking off back to the Warp, leaving behind a bunch of wrecked, but not irreparably so, worlds.

I agree with the model. His design is fucking stupid.

It seems each of his crusades had a purpose though; for example killing a previous enemy (drecarth). I'd imagine the crusades in which he was raiding random ass planets could be anything from getting slaves (like ramps children after HH), destroying planets that could contribute resources for more important military campaigns, suck the dick of chaos through raising totems etc.

However I do agree the whole "I got curb stomped, but I win because billions of people died and Nurglr is cumming in his pants." being more a bid to the attempted relevance of Abaddon rather than a true demonstration of his competence.

stupid fucking ponytail no one can take him seriously

>Because until GW changed it he had 13 crusades that accomplished somewhere between dick and all. You can tell newfags because they'll claim that "Nuh uh! He totally accomplished something every time." That was a recent change, and you know it. He's been incompetent for so long, I don't think any amount of changes could fix that ingrained image. It's like seeing that guy who was a loser in high school pick up a muscle car and leather jacket. Yeah, thats cool and all, but you still ate chalk in 9th grade and no one is gonna forget that.

Again, you guys are making stuff up. You seem to point at the change somehere but as a guy who is holding the books, I can say there wasn't any. The old fluff doesn't say his crusades were failure and claim they were successes, each one making him grow stronger.

I am starting to feel that I am talking to newfags that just love memes. And the proof is right here in this line :

>Also pretty sure Creed outsmarting him all the time with "tactical genius" didn't help either. Your claim to scariest chaos dude is kind of forfeit the moment a regular human outsmarts you, even if he is practically the reincarnation of solar macharius.

Creed only fought Abaddon ONCE in his life. ONCE. Creed wasn't even alive in the 12th Black Cruusade.

His backstory is that he got hastily promotion to leader of the Cadian forces after the Cadian were all killed by a rogue regiment.

In the retconned, Eye of Terror campaign, Creed lost. His one and only war with Abaddon's forces ended with him losing. What saved Cadia from falling totally to Chaos wasn't his tactical skills but the Imperial Navy chocking the supply lines of the traitor forces.

Creed DID nothing to warrant his meme status. He lost.

>Because until GW changed it he had 13 crusades that accomplished somewhere between dick and all.

Where was this? Because prior to the Black Legion supplement, there was literally nothing written on more than three-quarters of the crusades beyond, "They happened." The fact that nothing was written on them doesn't mean that they had no impact.

Which was YEARS after the first lore came out. And the first lore made the Black Crusades look like something FUCKING AWESOME. Said to come out once or twice a millennia and they caused fucking earthquakes of shit to spew out the High Lords of Terra.

And then you have actual descriptions of Abbadon's Black Crusades, and they just don't measure up...

Abbadon getting a magic sword doesn't keep the High Lords of Terra on the shitter, evacuating their bowels in fear. It's fucking pathetic. Doesn't matter how cool the sword is. He isn't cutting Terra in half with it.

And his later exploits, fail to do much better. Most actually point similar to the following (Taken from Chaos Codex 1996 printing; Page 20)

"Every city ruined, every planet burned brings the Imperium a little closer to dissolution. In a Imperium of a million worlds how much can a single world matter? Enough to have to defend each one against the infernal host, enough to bring the curse of Exterminatus upon those that bend the knee and bow down to daemon-kind."

Sounds kinda pathetic don't it?

Compare the hype to the actual damage done, and those Black Crusades, which seems like at 13 Abaddon has had the lion's share of them, and they just don't live up to it. Cadia still stands, a giant defiant middle finger right next door to chaos incarnateville.

There may have been no EXACT point where it said he failed on each one. But you compare something that happens once or twice a millennia and is supposed to cause so much fear with what the Imperium's reaction has been so far. A giant shrug and "Meh". You can easily infer that Abbadon is made of epic fucking fail.

>Abbadon getting a magic sword doesn't keep the High Lords of Terra on the shitter, evacuating their bowels in fear. It's fucking pathetic. Doesn't matter how cool the sword is. He isn't cutting Terra in half with it.

Taking the sword was among the prooceedings of the Black Crusade, not the focus.

>Compare the hype to the actual damage done, and those Black Crusades, which seems like at 13 Abaddon has had the lion's share of them, and they just don't live up to it. Cadia still stands, a giant defiant middle finger right next door to chaos incarnateville.

You used the lex instead of using proper sources and omitted a lot of information whether intentionally or not. Like how Makan was the first extinction event of the Blood Angels. They nearly all died that day. Such an event, if it leaked out, would bring the entire Imperium crushing down (See death of Imperial Fists, defeat of the Ultramarine second company).

Point 1, each crusade left entire sectors, thousands if worlds burning and dead. That's a lot of damage to sustain for an Imperium that can't afford it. So it's no wonder that the Imperials are ignoring the Tyranids, Necrons, and Orks to focus on the Black Crusade.

2, The Cadia Gate is the second most fortified and defended in the Imperium. Abaddon's forces are limited and/or unreliable, the Imperium is near-unlimited and reliable. So in a slugfest/attrition war (barring the 13th Black Crusade), Abaddon will always lose. So Abaddon never targetted Cadia for destruction. He circumvented to go for the other vital spots or went to areas to further his plans. Anyone can see this basic stuff.

The not-so-well-done-rulewise Black Legion supplement fixed him.

As I remember, 10 out of 12 Black Crusades were all about gathering stuff for the 13th one and only one was mostly a failure.

AoS please go.

I liked Archaon when he was a metal, bear-pelt wearing viking instead of a generic-looking fantasy evil overlord.

Nope. Utter fail. I told you where I got it. Chaos Codex 1996. Try again. But with less fail.

In that book, he only killed the Blood Angels Devastator Positions at Makan. Hardly an extinction event.

At El'Phanor, he lost 9 out of 10. Not worth.

And of course the sword on Uralan below the Tower of silence.

All in print, all written in his two page listing of the book. Page 98 and 99.

Your fail is complete.

He needs to become an agony uncle like his older brother Borak.

>Nope. Utter fail. I told you where I got it. Chaos Codex 1996. Try again. But with less fail.

Don't lie to me, user.

>In that book, he only killed the Blood Angels Devastator Positions at Makan. Hardly an extinction event.

And in the newer canon he nearly wiped them out.

>At El'Phanor, he lost 9 out of 10. Not worth.

The fluff says that his forces grows with each Black Crusade. So the glory and slaughter of that day only made him stronger making it worth it.

Try again.

Get a new haircut. I cant take it seriously.

>And in the newer canon he nearly wiped them out
Sorry, but wasn't your point "Nuh uh, he was cool in the old canon too," or am I only hallucinating the squeaking of shuffling goalposts?

Nice goalpost moving. We were asked to provide proof that originally he was made of fail. In official print.

I did.

Anything you state now is pure retcon to try to make him NOT a punk who takes it up the ass and calls it a victory.

So deal.

(Drops the mic, walks out)

Follow the post chain. This sub-discussion started when started quoting the Lex/warhammer wiki and spewing retardation. Most of what you said comes from the Black Legion supplement. When I chided you for omitting details from the supplement/new lore and used the Blood Angels nearly dying out as example, you drifted into the "old lore discussion".

Get ahold of yourself. I just checked the old fluff. I checked the CSm codexes. Nowhere do they state that his crusudes were a failure. In fact, they state that his power rose after each one.

The 1996 Chaos lore doesn't even say that the First Crusade was about the sword only. It just says that he got it. The rest is description of the Krom-whatever conquest. Which he won.

So far as I can see this the only codex that goes into some detail about Abaddon's crusade. The rest didn't at all. So user you were lying.

Cont'ed. Posting lore to counter lies.

...

In terms of being taken "seriously" Chaos in 40k has always been the retarded stepchild of Chaos in Fantasy. Of course now they've fucked Fantasy as well, so.

Shut up. Fantasy Chaos were a laughingstock after SoC and the headbutt incident. It took the end of the world to wash away the shame.

And I see nothing about him failing.

Moving on to 1999. Well, there is nothing in the codex bout the Black Crusades. This codex is starved of fluff. It's depressing.

The problem is, that people take xeno perspectives as objective ones. Xenos tend to underestimate the Imperium, thus all the SO INCOMPETENT LAWL memes.
Everyone failing against the Imperium must therefore be even more incompetent...

To CSM 2002.

This is all the lore in it about the crusades.

Add Abaddon's entry for good measure.

Finally reaching 2007. The only fluff about Abaddon's Black Crusades in the codex comes from one page and it's Abaddon's entry.

Unless somehow I missed something, I have gathered the sum of all Black Crusade old lore from the dexes. So guys can you point where it says that he failed?

Aesthetically it's almost impossible to make him scary. His miniature takes the already goofy look of Chaos Marines and runs with it. But lore-wise? Turn Cadia into an Armageddon situation, with the forces of chaos having a permanent hold on the planet. Have cadia recall their regiment from across the imperium to defend their home and the High Lords get rightfully pissed at them. Maybe have the Inquisition land and start purging both friend and foe from the Chaos-infested planet.

New model with helmet, no open face with stupid top knot

>Shut up. Fantasy Chaos were a laughingstock after SoC and the headbutt incident. It took the end of the world to wash away the shame.
I don't mean achievements but the actual fluff being written.

Explain.

If by wash away the shame, you mean make them look like the whiny kid who cried to his overinvolved mother to chew out the coach when he tripped during Soccer practice and hurt his elbow, then sure.

One of the unspoken commandments that have to be followed if you want to be taken seriously, is that if something doesn't go your way, you can't throw a bitchfit and demand it never happened, no matter how badly it went. If GW had just followed the rules, and let Chaos get beaten like they would have let the leader of any other faction, then SoC would just be remembered as "That time that Crazy Badass Orc reached the Pinnacle of Crazy Badassary" and It would only have been a Minor Blemish on Chaos's record as relevant Faction.

But GW couldn't have their little darling Chaos have any sort of meaningful or important loss, noooo. Instead, GW had to retcon it and just say "No! Fuck You! Chaos wins and you all die!" and now they look like a whiny, little bitch of a faction that only exists so that GW can pretend that they're unique, dark, deep writers, by having the demons win.

>biggest retcon
>not newcrons

>believing it has anything to do with Chaos loving

According to Gav, management and studio team didn't like the ending and the resulting storyline.

Considering that GW likes money and doesn't have favourites in factions, they either didn't have the ability to follow up that storyline or it would have been costly.

Writing new books for the new lore, removing and adding old and new models, etc is a lot of work when they can just keep the status quo for no cost. Back then WHFB wasn't dying. There was no pressure to create something new.

So even if Chaos had won SoC, I think they would retconned it too.

>That time that Crazy Badass Orc reached the Pinnacle of Crazy Badassary.
You mean the Green Kroosade?

...

fucking this
shut up, retard

Gee, I wonder who this could be.

ADB didn't write that, he quoted it on his blog.

>GW does an event where the Ending is determined by the results of the people who play
>Event is very clearly portrayed as Chaos stomping through Warhammer Fantasy World with no real obstacles
>Fans instead voted for the ending where an Ork stops Archaon's Power trip like a badass, and all factions get to survive to fight on, rather than the "Chaos stomps everyone, No factions left, Chaos wins" Ending that GW had planned
>GW retcon the entirety of that event and instead have a plot advancement that bears an uncanny resemblance to CoS
>Only this time, There is no player input and Chaos wins and destroys the world,
>this ending requires the Writers to hit the reboot button to not just end there
>when confronted, GW is all "Oh no, there's totally no favoritism here. It's just that we couldn't think of things for CoS, honest"

Nigga, are you a shill or are you actually this gullible?

Because he's the Skeletor of the 40k setting. There's nothing wrong with that. Every setting needs a Skeletor

Players had no input on the story at all, they only sent their game results to GW. The part of the ending that players criticised the most was Grimgor's stupid sucker punch that left the event without any sort of resolution.

About those game results, was Chaos winning or "barely and temporary bothered with a minor defeat". I just arrived to this thread and I'm aware of GW's Chaosboner.

>not bound to one god
Lorgar?
Perturabo?

Honestly, Newcrons weren't even that big of a retcon - mostly just an expansion of their faction besides a vaguely unexplained "AWAKENING EVIL" type of foe - which works for factions like the Rak'Gol who don't have much of an impact on the setting and are highly localized, but when you faction is galaxy-spanning and has its own Codex you really need actual meat on the bones of your factions personality.

Also, in old fluff it was set up so that Necrons basically could not lose, because everything is the work of the Deceiver or Nightbringer and therefore all JUSTASPLANNED (and those entities were entirely too powerful to begin with). Now, they actually have stakes and a possibility of defeat, and therefore makes their actions much more interesting and meaningful in the setting. The new C'tan are honestly the best way to go about it - the old stat-lines simply couldn't do justice to the concept of an actual god striding the battlefield. Extremely powerful but small-scale shards of the god, however, are much more easily justifiable.

>Also, in old fluff it was set up so that Necrons basically could not lose, because everything is the work of the Deceiver or Nightbringer and therefore all

Wrong, the oldcron lore says that the Deceiver most work fast to awaken the Necrons and his 3 brothers. He must unite his brothers again before the power of Chaos overwhelms the galaxy.

So Oldcrons, like the Newcrons, had a time limit and a possible defeat if they failed to meet the deadline. What does that make you? A liar user. Shame on you for lying.

>The new C'tan are honestly the best way to go about it - the old stat-lines simply couldn't do justice to the concept of an actual god striding the battlefield. Extremely powerful but small-scale shards of the god, however, are much more easily justifiable.

Or go at it in the same why Dawn of War did. But hey, what would you know about imagination. Especially the one outside your bias?

Disgusting.

>Honestly, Newcrons weren't even that big of a retcon

Actually, it is. But that depends on the fact you read their codex which clearly you didn't.

There is nothing "vaguely explained" in the oldcron codex. If anything it was very revealing and explained Oldcron ad C'tan history from the start to 40K. Just throw in another lie.