Warhammer 40k General

The repeated rumors that it's borrowing design elements from AoS is what worries me. WS and BS need to be more important and varied, not removed entirely in favor of static To Hit rolls. The core rulebooks list of Special Rules need to be made more important/have the chaff removed, not be removed entirely in favor of every unit entry having its own unique rules. I weep to think that the magic phase is going to get AoS-style Downs syndrome.

Things i like about AoS
>Random turns
>Free core book and model rules
>Formations cost points
If it can use them without bringing the shitty magic and leadership phases I'm all for it

8th is gonna be a massive disappointment because we all expect it to remove every single flaw of the game while still expecting everything we love to stay in

Different to hit rolls would actually be a nice way of differentiating weapons. If
Missile launchers hit on 2's while grav cannons hit on 4s, you might see more missile launchers.

Ok so I think i've made my kill team based on what I've got. Any advice for someone whos never played before?
Also how do you assign specialists in battlescribe?

Free rules would be fantastic, especially if it came alongside a proliferation of variant lists and rules available through their websites. It was really cool when they put out Apocalypse Formations through their website.

I'd rather see them get rid of the "I-go-you-go" turn structure entirely. Do some sort of unit-by-unit alternative activation, with a degree of randomization. Might be unwieldy at the company+ level engagements that 40k handle nowadays, but that's just too large of a scale for 28mm infantry. A Battle Company being an apocalypse formation instead of a standard 1500 point list would be a welcome regression.

I'd prefer to see formations become a bit more open-ended. More like the detachments we were getting in early seventh like the Nemesis Strike Force. Let them be means of field variant army compositions without being pigeon-holed as heavily.

>AoS things that would maybe help 40k
>You don't hit Flying things on 6's, they just move faster
>You can target characters instead of the unit
>Melee is in phases, I go You go
Personally, I don't like random turns. I play Clan Skyre and went 5/0 at a tournament because of random turns. I'd prefer activations, with a bonus to first activation based on how high ranking your HQ is.

the advantages of static to hit/to wound/rend instead of ap are seriously worth considering though
a model will always be as effective
unlike now where your ap4 anti infantry weapons collectively shit the bed as soon as they meet a space marine
meaning it's really hard to balance them point wise
that said it would mean a substantial loss of depth

Dropzone does it
>Activations until every battle group is done
>Before the game, you pay for a HQ, and a commander level, showing how good the driver is
>It's 1-5 that adds to the D6 roll off at the start of a turn

Grav Cannons need reworked from the ground up. Missile Launcher just need to be a little cheaper and/or come with Flakk for free.

Giving each weapon variant To Hit rolls adds a ton of complexity for very little gain. I could see giving some weapons To Hit modifiers.

Why is GW retarded?
Deathwatch in Damnos campain has acces to anti Necron bolts, but in Their codex Their only have a "standard" special bolts.
GW also do not know how to update Their codeces properly. New wersion of the codex (Chaos Daemons, Space Wolves, Blood Angels) instead of adding some pages updating rules etc. They just copy and paste pages from campain book.

>>You can target characters instead of the unit

this is terrible and most AoS players who I know don't like it (can you guess which ones do? the empire and dwarf players with cannons out the ass)

also it encourages people to take the character monsters

Shit user, I dunno why they don't ask the community what they'd want in new rules, they sure play test it enough.

Reaper's Warlord has every unit in your army give you a card, then you shuffle up your and your opponent's cards and deal them out one at a time, activating a unit for each card that comes up. Then you've got a handful of models that either add an extra card or let you bury a card.

I'd love to see AP go to modifiers rather than static numbers, but you'd have to drastically reduce the effective AP of a lot of weapons. Which really needs to happen anyways.

saying you hate the system because you got lucky and rolled highest a lot is a moot point since that's literally the advantage you get in 40k for a whole match

I noticed that new codices don't have dates in the timeline. That's make me sad :(.

Sorry for linking
belloflostsouls.net/2016/11/40k-rumors-8th-edition-changes-direction.html
Thoughts?

The Tactical Marine and Sternguard unit entries should be combined into a new unit called Tactical Marines. Agreed Y/N?

>You don't hit Flying things on 6's, they just move faster
Eh, having flying shit be harder to hit makes sense, but GW handled flier implementation very, very poorly.

>target characters independent of units
Holy fuck no. Are you retarded? Every infantry character on the table would die on the first enemy shooting phase of every turn. Tau players would be knocking their Stormtides and Ripsurges over with the throbbing erections such stupidity would give them.

>Look for an emphasis on ease of play, especially for new players.

Great they are dumbing down the game.

that really isn't a bad thing at this point

7th is so bloated though

In the olden days we just called them veterans, they were an elite choice and you equipment however you wanted.

Not him, but I'd agree with you if I had any faith that GW will preserve what little depth the game has. I'd rather keep the current game than get AoS: Space Marine Edition. Not that I think that's what's coming; it'll be somewhere in the middle. It's just that I see very little in AoS that I really like.

I think most codexes need a severe reevaluation of their legacy units and how they fit into the post-FOC world of formations and detachments.

>in the old days veterans actually got skills to differentiate them
>now they just cover themselves in glue and roll across the armory floor

Finally decided on the points for my game v Tau next next Saturday. 2000pts. First time using their dedicated transports and first time using a flier so this should go well.
Not expecting Tides or Surges but probably an OSC and whatever that fire warrior formation thing is. Hunter Cadre? idk.

_______________________
Lions Blade Detachment:

Core: Demi- Company = 725

Chaplain - 105
* Jump Pack

5 Assault Marines - 85
* Jump Packs

5 Devastator Marines - 130
* 4 Missile Launchers

3x5 Tactical Marines - 145 per
* Razorback with Twin Linked Assault Cannon

Auxillery: Ravenwing Attack Squadron = 130

Ravenwing Attack Bike - 55
* Multi Melta

Ravenwing Landspeeder - 75
* 2 Multi Meltas

_______________________
Ravenwing Strike Force #1 = 675 (Starts on Field)

Librarian - 110
* Level 2, Space Marine Bike

Ravenwing Command Squad - 250
* 5 Black Knights, Apothecary, Ravenwing Banner

Ravenwing Bike Squad - 115
* 3 Bikers, 2 Grav Guns + Combi Grav

5 Ravenwing Black Knights - 200

_______________________
Ravenwing Strike Force #2 = 320 (Starts in reserve because Flier)

Librarian - 110
* Level 2, Space Marine Bike

4 Ravenwing Black Knights - 160

Ravenwing Dark Talon - 160

1990/2000

I could switch the Grav Bikers to the Attack Squadron and swap the landspeeders dual Multimeltas for a Typhoon Missile Launcher + Heavy Bolter.
I guess I will give my Libs auspex or something to burn the ten points.

Nothing seems to indicate it'll get any less so. Less restrictions, more formations.

just putting together my space wolf list
thinking about giving them shields should i go all the way and put in an energy weapon too or better yet a frost weapon ? or are there any other good equipment choices ?

Who are them in this scenario....

40k is currently one of the worst designed rulesets I've ever encountered. It's hilariously complex but ensures that none of the complexity translates into depth of gameplay. It spends two or three times as much space it truly needs explaining basic concepts a small child gets, while glossing over the game equivalent of string theory. I haven't even gotten to the army lists, which completely ignore everything established in the core rules. In the worst cases you only need to read about 5 pages of that clusterfuck because your army ignores everything else. The opponent's army ignores a different set of rules and you will spend most of the afternoon prying apart how your two lists just interact.

I'm pretty confident the designers over the course of 7th have never played a single game of their ruleset, even in their free time.

good dammit! forgot the most important part. thunderwolf cavalry have 3 here plan getting another 3 maybe make one HQ or just canis wolfborn

Andy Chambers wanted to introduce some radical changes with his version of 4th edition.
He left GW when that didn't happen.
Every since then 40k is basically a patched up version of 3rd editions work in progress.

What they should do:
>Remove random power generation-each discipline has a handful of free powers and a couple point-costing ones
>Remove random Warlord Traits- each table has a couple free ones and a handful that cost a % of the total game point value
>Largely cull special rules of duplicates and do nothing rules. For example, Tyranid Regeneration, It Will Not Die, Necron Resurrection Protocols, and Feel no Pain all do roughly the same thing in the same way for roughly the same reasons. Just use one rule in place of all four.
>Simplify To Hit and To Wound charts so that there is no table necessary (keep the table for newbs and morons)- to wound is almost there, it just needs to consistent at what point a lower S can no longer hurt a higher T. To hit simplification would go along with finally adding 2+ to hit for WS.
>Completely rethink formations and detachments. Go more towards Nemesis Strike Force style alternate FOC instead of super specific combinations of units with tons of rules.
>Reintroduce some level of abstraction to terrain.
>Lower model count per game.

What do you mean by "some level of abstraction to terrain?"

Yes it is, 40k is already dumbed down AND THEN buried under thick layers of poorly integrated additions.

The gane needs a crisp, clean and solid core, not "roll 4+ to win combat" dumbing down.

All right, I want to play a giant-ass Black Templars list and this is what I've come up with;

+++ Emperor's Wrath Assault Force +++

Combined Arms Detachment
>Chaplain w/ Teleport Homer
>The Emperor's Champion
>2 Sternguard Squad with 4 Combi-Guns, Drop Pod
>4 Maxed Crusader Squads

Armored Task Force
>Techmarine with 2 Servitors
>3 Units of Vindicators

Skyhammer Annihilation Force
>2 Devestator Squads with a Drop Pod, Armorium Cherubim, 4 Multi-Meltas
>2 Assault Squads with Jump Packs, 2 Flamers, Eviscerator

Shadowstrike Kill-Team
>2 Vanguard Veteran Squads with Jump Packs, 8 Lightning Claws, 2 Storm Shields
>2 Scout Squads

3,000 points on the dot. I think it fits the Assault and kill theme pretty well, though I think I'm gonna make them Mechanicus Aligned (maybe use Skitarii in place of Neophytes?). Steel Confessors maybe?

Anyway, is the list good? Too weak or powerful in some spots? Anything is appreciated

I'd assume he means a return of area terrain.

most likely area terrain

I am relatively new, only played in 7th. What's area terrain?

>To Hit and To Wound charts
I started playing last year, and i never understood why these aren't the exact same

Yeah the ideal TWC star is a five TWC and a TWlord.

Give all the TWC storm shields and a mix of wolf claw and Power fist and give the Lord Black Death or whatever the relic is and they will be crazy smashy and survivable.

Some people recommend Thunder Hammers but I don't think the conclusive is worth the five extra points and I also don't think the Lord really needs a shield, especially at lower points, because he has the Belt of Russ

It's 3000pts so those games get really silly, you will do fine unless someone is playing a WAACier list or bringing multiple LoWs.

Steel Confessors are Iron Hands, user.

I'm thankful that awful helmet in the HF guy is going the way of the dodo thanks to the new plastic Mk IV is a thing now.

>Add To Hit modifiers from Fantasy (distance/cover/etc.)
>Give different ranged weapons modifiers to Hit (single shot heavy weapons may get +1 to Hit, while high ROF weapons may get -1)
>Orks get a special rule that they always hit on at least a 5+ (yes this counts for Snapfiring)

All of a terrain piece granting the same protection and Line of sight one determines if a model can be hit or not.

So inside a ruin you'd have 4+ no matter how visible you were.

I get that, I'm using Chapter Tactics Black Templars.

But crusaders of the Machine God is a pretty neat idea. and the models look cool (not to mention cheap), plus the Confessors worship the Omnissiah, so that works out pretty well.

Does the fluff and rules seem compatible to anyone else? No Psykers, worship a god, relentless crusaders, it fits nicely I think

>Add To Hit modifiers from Fantasy (distance/cover/etc.)
Target size too.

>Give different ranged weapons modifiers to Hit (single shot heavy weapons may get +1 to Hit, while high ROF weapons may get -1)

>Orks get a special rule that they always hit on at least a 5+ (yes this counts for Snapfiring)

Pass

>Remove random power generation
Eh, I'm fine with them. There'll always be some powers that are slightly better than others. Random powers ensures that you can't min-max, and it makes a degree of sense since the warp is fickle. The only way I'd be okay with this is if there was some god-tier balancing done by GW.

>Remove random Warlord Traits
Same as above. People would just figure out the optimal warlord traits and pick them. A lot of balancing would be needed.

>Largely cull special rules of duplicates and do nothing rules.
There are definitely differences between each rule. For example, It Will Not Die is all about recovering wounds, not preventing them. Resurrection Protocols is basically Feel No Pain though, just better against instant death.

>Simplify To Hit and To Wound charts so that there is no table necessary
I'm not sure how they could do that without pretty much the entire game. Might be a good result though.

>Completely rethink formations and detachments.
The power creep in formations is ridiculous. It at least needs an AoS-style points cost, or incredibly tepid special rules. No Skyhammer shit.

>Reintroduce some level of abstraction to terrain.
I'd like a "D3 pieces of terrain per 2'x2' piece of the board. Terrain should be chosen randomly between forests, ruins and hills. Pieces be able to fit 20 25mm bases comfortably"

>Lower model count per game.
Just play 1000pts.

Ehh kinda wish Tacticals were more expensive than Assault / Devastators and came with Chainswords by default with the option of two Special Weapons, two Heavy Weapons, or mix/match.

Why is every codex a hardcover book??

Like isn't that more money on their end?

>god-tier balancing
>GW

Unless 8th makes knights/superheavies/flyers apocalypse only, removes formations completely and undoes stupidity like the Tau having giant robots what is the point?

And these things are too far gone or make too much money for GW because of stupid pricks that its too late to fix.

But, why? As IH successors they use IH chapter tactics.

Why would the SC not have Psykers? Just because they worship the Omnissiah and the Emperor doesn't mean they're going to be on holy crusade 24/7 like the BT. Just use IH tactics for them, mate. Makes far more sense than BT tactics. Bonus to vehicles and tough characters showing mechanical knowledge and closeness to the AdMech makes far more sense.

Kthxbai

would't a frost sword and strom shield be cheaper?
or is this its one of this just pump them up as much as you can and just put a fist AND claw on each model ? ?

>incredibly tepid special rules.
They bonus is you get to ignore the CAD, done.

I really don't care about the army. I just want Space Crusaders, and wherever that's at, I'm at. Steel Confessors looked like a unique way to that, but if not then I'll just make my own.

It's not impossible for chapter to act similarly to BT, right?

Plus I'm not a huge fan of Psykers so that helps too

I'm building a grey knights army, am I better off deep striking my terminators or using a land raider?

Trying to decide whether I want to spend my points on Stormravens or land raiders and if I take a land raider, which variant is best?

Then just don't use them, or just play Black Templars?

Like, seriously man, just play Black Templars if you want to use their CT.

Lore-wise, the AdMech are banned from having another chapter loyal to them like the SC, to the point where the SC were forced to swear oaths of loyalty to the Imperium.

At this point I'm just being an autist about it, but why not just use IH tactics?

God, how are people STILL butthurt about flyers?

The need storm shields to live.

So you would have two WC/SS and then three PF/SS.

Don't cheap out on TWC they are your stand out unit.

I don't have a codex or Battlescribe near me, what is the stat line of a Frost Sword?

I am sure you can look around and find more in depth analysis, you certainly aren'tthe first SW player to ask the question.

So Eternal Crusade (I know, I know) is getting Grav in the next day or so. Has it ever been represented in visual media before this?

Because some armies STILL don't have a good counter to them.

Hell, the IG are better off with an Aegis line instead of the Hydra, which is supposed to be their anti-air weapon.

Frost swords are +1 strength, AP3

Maybe I'm explaining it wrong.

I don't care if they're worshippers of the Emperor, the Omnissiah, or Matt Ward, I just want to play giant armies of murderous Space Knights, and I want that with the BT rules.

However I don't just want to do normal BT (Templars are cool but a little boring imo). I saw the Steel Confessors and their Chapter Symbol reminded me of Crusaders, and combined with all the Skitario lore about 'relentless crusaders' made it look to all fit well together. But if not, I'll just make my own.

Yes.
Painting and print are visual media.

No, Grav is too new to have any representation. I wonder how that would work, would it do more damage to Marines and less to Orks?

More likely it will be like everything else in that shit-heap of a game, badly implemented.

Is there a good epub reader as the one i downloaded completely destroyed the formatting of Angels Blade book.

Pc - Readium
Android - Kobo
iOS - kill yourself

Because they are still a stupid thing to put in a game of this scale.

Okay new question where do i get rope to make a noose? Also thank you ill try readium.

> t. Some faggot

Cool, and it costs 20pts right? So it cost and does what a single wolf claw does but doesn't get Shred.

It's one five points less than a fist which has better ap and x2 s

15 i belive

For some reason I think it's twenty but I am in no position to prove it. Even so shred is pretty nice.

To be sure I would go look at other lists and reviews that include TWC

claw 20 (pair of 30) points fist 25 frost axe and sword 20
but claw and fist are specialist weapons so no bonus attack unles you have 2

TWC are using Storm Shields anyway and therefore can never claim two assault weeps.

Also all their attacks are rending, making shred all the more valuable

How should I be kitting out my Crisis Suits, generally speaking? I'm probably going to have them all magnet-ed anyway, but it seems like the best way to run them is with 2 plasma rifles and a fusion blaster, or 2 missile pods and a blaster. My friend circle has everything from Eldar to Orkz, so this is a pretty "in a vacuum" kind of question.

It does more armor/shield damage and less health. Apparently a Grav pistol full charge strips all a Tacs shield/armor and half its health. I assume it's less for Boyz. Hilariously it also says it'll clip Swooping Hawks from the air.

Holy shit I never heard about this.

>tfw we could have been living in a timeline where Lord Chambers was in charge of core rules since 4e

Fuck me.

If you haven't realized by now that we are living in the evil alternate reality I have bad news for you.

So, where can I go to get made-to-order stuff? I can't find a tab anywhere on GWs site.

That would've been amazing. What happened??

He left y know like said

Rate my first mini.

10/10

Duncan?

What's with all these fags spamming Duncan's first mini.

Why do they care so much?

I wrote a list for lulz. Lemme know your thoughts:
"Revenge of Sliscus"
++Corsair CAD++
Prince with Shadowfield, Voidsabre, Haywire Grenades and Seeker of Forbidden Pleasure.

2x 3 Cloud Dancers with Scatter Lasers, and Felarch

2 solo Hornets with 2 Pulse Lasers.

++Realspace Raiders++
2 Llhameans and a Venom w/ 2x Cannons

4x 5 Warriors with Blaster, Haywire Sybarite, and Venom w/ 2 Cannons

5 x 6 Reaver Jetbikes, each w/ 2 models w/ Blaster & Caktrops

Total: 1850.

The Prince joins the Llhameans. That's 5 Venoms, 2 Hornets, 5 Reaver Jetbike units, and 2 Cloud dancer units.