Horus Heresy General /hhg/

Isstvan was an inside job Edition

Previous thread: >HHG
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Official HH 7th Edition Errata (Updated January 2016)
forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Horus_Heresy/Horus_Heresy_7th_Edition.pdf
>30k TACTICA & TIPS
What to include in a HH list, how to format it, what makes each legion special (crunch), tactics, Tutorials for Heresy-era minis and more
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>HH Books, Novels and Rulebooks galore
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sys.Veeky Forums.org/derefer?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.docdroid.net%2FZTK72gs%2Flegiones-astartes-age-of-darkness-army-list.pdf.html
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>/HHG/'s Legion demographics
strawpoll.me/10558764

>/HHG/'s allegiances
www.strawpoll.me/10663447

>Oct 16 White Dwarf
mediafire.com/file/zm71nli980zr97h/WhiteDwarf_Oct16.pdf

>Primarch Popularity Poll
strawpoll.me/11458318

>Other new links
sys.Veeky Forums.org/derefer?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww98.zippyshare.com%2Fv%2Fe6VFn2St%2Ffile.html
sys.Veeky Forums.org/derefer?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww116.zippyshare.com%2Fv%2Fd2D2z8mF%2Ffile.html
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mega.nz/#F!Wl5DAbCb!TYxZG4CgX_x-NJu7JBwbZQ!LoBA0bqS
www98.zippyshare.com/v/e6VFn2St/file.html

Other urls found in this thread:

z13.invisionfree.com/The_First_Expedition/index.php?showtopic=1979
twitter.com/AnonBabble

What are some "atypical" Imperial Fists lists?
I'm suffering from "list writer's block".

Same guy who posted this. I confuse the names, Shadowsword, Shadowblade, Shadowhedheog, whatever, you're planning to use the tank with the Hellhammer 36" S10 AP1 Ignores cover, right? But that's a 10" Blast, I don't think BS makes much difference.
That tank, the Stormsword can't take +1 sponsons either, just extra AV14 on its sides.

Bunch of fast attack and assault dudes.

Not sure why you'd build a list like that, but it's doable.

Just finished Know No Fear. The pair of mechanicum adepts gave me the feels. Fukkin' Abnett, man.

I guess Fists either teleport or do shieldwalls, both of which are actually nice for ZM. If you want an atypical Fist list, don't listen to .
I mean, aren't Fists meant to deffend stuff? Pic related defends better than the usual Imperial Fist, so you could try some fortifications.

>that rational explanation of mechanicum theology
>that server checking out his robo waifus robo bootie

Care to post an excerpt?

So someone linked a pdf of Master of Mankind in the earlier thread. PDFs are all fine and dandy, but does anyone have a .mobi or .epub? Dont have much to trade, unless you are still missing books from the Beast series.

Yeah, that one. Hello again. Whoever thought baneblades should be named via a random generator thrown the words Storm, Bane, Hammer, Sword, Blade and Shadow should be shot for annoying the clerks.

Giant ignore cover Ordnance gets much better with Inteceptor and AP0. Fuck your rhino wall.
Not sure about the SAV14 or the sponsons, both seem nice.

Know No Fear was pretty good. One of my favourite parts was the description of the very initial Word Bearers attack, of that ship ramming through everything in barely a few seconds.

>Whoever thought baneblades should be named via a random generator thrown the words Storm, Bane, Hammer, Sword, Blade and Shadow should be shot for annoying the clerks.

Have you never played a Games Workshop game before?

No, in universe. Would make a nice bit of side fluff.
But yeah, the Guard have that problem a lot.

>It starts to rain main battle tanks

Oh man. I forgot that part. Kek. I need to re-read that book someday.

Get fucked AL, thank you based Kyr Vhalen.

Well, yeah, but is there a build that uses their specialties and/or uniques, rather than just them taking a generic build that works for every "workhorse" legion?

Spartan deathrush is all I feel comfortable using without wondering "is there something different I could be doing to make the most of the IF legion?".

I agree, even Dorn's cover-buffing rule is underpowered compared to Vhalen's (though the primarch is underpowered as a whole I think).

A Rite of War that benefited tac and support squads on foot would be a lot better for them IMO.

Personally I prefer to attack rather than defend, and the mixed terminator squads are nice for that, but I don't see much else to work with there other than Spartans.

Assuming options are as limited as they appear to my non-tactical genius eyes, what advice should I heed to be better at Deep-Striking?

I really like the part when the Word Bearer and the Ultramarine bros have a dinner party and the Word Bearer hints at betrayal and shoots him in the face.

Anyone got Children of Sicarus?

Anyone else feel Ra's character was originally supposed to be Amon Tauromachian's?

Feels kind of odd that we haven't heard of this absolute badass Custodes second-in-command till the book came out

Canonically, Templar lists.

Second for Children of Sicarius and first for The Thirteenth Wolf.

Here you got Master of Mankind in pdf.

>according to Laurie Goldberg on TFE the part where Emps stays his hand out of love at the final showdown is going to be retconned

Absolutely fucking fantastic

the fuck

So what are the chances of us getting 30k Watchers in the Dark for dangles?

Well now we are to believe that the God-Emperor of Mankind was legitimately defeated by Horus. and that Horus by default was the most powerful being alive.

It was exactly all of those little side-stories that made that book so good. The build-up to the actual betrayal was great.

but then how did the emperor still win
inb4 ollanius fucking pius turns out to be a perpetual space lizzard illuminate psyker that fucks up horus in true BL fashion of fucking up good fluff

Well he was as close to the Emperor as genetically possible, designed as a weapon of war with centuries of experience as such, and had the power of the four primeval beings of a parallel dimension channeled through him.

>"is there something different I could be doing to make the most of the IF legion?".
Post your current list m8
>though the primarch is underpowered as a whole I think
I think Dorn is fine, but his support rules are a bit dumb and obsolete. Sure he and his squad gain Crusader and Furious charge...but you're putting him in a PF/SS Cataphractii unit. They do not Sweep, do not run, and S8 wounds the same as S9. And he allows you to reroll Pinning tests you're now immune to. But three rerollable cover of ones is still useful, and militia can use those rules as well.

No, AD-B wouldn't just take one of Dan's characters, I imagine Tauromachian is reserved for the Siege.
With Valdor being up in the palace, the story needed another officer, that's all. And with Ra and the other two Tribunes it did give us some neat info about the structure of the Ten Thousand.

Indeed.

Fuck this shit, I still don't remember why I hate Laurie Goulding, but now I have yet another reason to.
I know right! I wonder what will be of Ollanius now. Maybe he warp-steps behind Sixteenth and stabs him in the back
>Pffft nuthin personel, Warmaster.

Authors in this series constantly take characters from each other, and it would fit for the great fate Magnus sees In him

Unless the Lion punches his head off as well or something.

This girl is ruining it.

>i have two personalities.jpg

Yeah but ADB wouldn't just take one of Dan Abnett's, he idolises him and is nowhere near that cheeky about that sort of stuff.

Also Amon Tauromachian's storyline - in any conventional plot - seems to be set up to not endthe way Ra's did.

Of course as pointed out, some times the authors just throw obviously planned story developments out the window because fcuk you that's why

>When memes become canon

>emperor no longer got his power from shamans, instead he bargained with the chaos gods
>ollanius pius is some shit eternally reincarnating dude instead of a literal who guardsman
>emperor now has no love for his sons, and thinks of them as test subjects to the end
>now he's legit gonna be asskicked by horus instead of emps still being stronger than him, but having too much love for his children so he won't go all out
man...

>That guy Ahriman's Aide on TFE just copied my Master of Mankind spoilers and changed the swearing to nicer words

Hey, dude. FUCK YOU. But as a fellow TS player I guess I forgive you

>but then how did the emperor still win
Chaos will remove their favour from Horus, since they intended to lose all along.
I'd post a spoiler'd ":^)" face, if it weren't for the fact I'm depressed about that legitimately being what's going to happen.
It's actually easier than magnetizing an octoblade, since you can only take 5 variants.

...

> Amon Tauromachian's storyline - in any conventional plot - seems to be set up to not endthe way Ra's did.
>Some times the authors just throw obviously planned story developments out the window because fcuk you that's why
I just wish they did the same to John French's bullshit. Don't you agree, Alpharius?
You know, Thiel realized they could be killed in melee just fine. So Nemiel was right, no need for witchery bullshit, just your trusty blade. And the Lion is THE blademaster, besides maybe Fulgrim, Khan, Angron and the Angel.

>horus losing was all planned
oh fuck no
i would legitimately be happier to get a fucking warhammer fantasy ending-esque chaos wins everyone you liked is dead in 40 than that fucking retcon

...

>on TFE
Where?

Oh yeah. I guess the Reductor list only would use 3 of those. Shadowsword, Stormsword and Stormlord, so I could always just build it with those 3.

I don't keep up with non-WS HH books because they're trash, but I think this particular retcon happened a while ago.

to be fair, im pretty sure I read up on how horus losing was the legit plan of chaos. Because horus would put the 'galaxy in flames' and end up waging a galaxy wide war that would end up with every human dead, which would sap almost all of the chaos gods powers.

this was also stuff that I read like 5+ years ago, so its not very recent.

So /hhg/, I'm making a Salamanders list, and I wanted to make it an assault army with artillery support. However, I already have one basilisk, vulkan, and a sicaran venator, and as such would like to include them in the list. I would also like to do this with a relatively small amount of points. If you have any advice, I'd like to hear it please.

>Chaos will remove their favour from Horus, since they intended to lose all along.
So the Cabal's bullshit was true? If Horus won then he'd eventually come to regret it and the human race would go extinct?

Spoiler area, if you read my spoilers you'll recognise my exact text, loads and loads of it.

I'm not actually salty, I was pleased I was able to share something new with /hhg/ I like you guys, I just think it's gash that he just pasta'd the stuff as if it was his phrasing, like fuck off dude, write your own shit.

Should be used to it with the other wiki just nicking loads of the shit I wrote for lex, but let's not go there.

yeah i'm not 100% up on the fluff
but i don't think it was ever 100% confirmed , maybe hinted at but the chaos gods lie all the fucking time anyway
it would defeat the whole fucking point of the setting since chaos fucking wins and has done so for the last 30 years eat shit everyone else
makes the whole cabal thing pointless to

>relatively small amount of points
>Vulkan
Eh, I was going to argue Primarchs' support rules are wasted when you have little more than his deathball to recieve those buffs, but it's Vulkan whom we're talking about. +1Ld and Adamantium Will aren't that noticeable right now. After Inferno, however...
Did I use "whom" correctly?

>Alpharius Fast Ball
To get /hhg/ off the depressing subject BL writing, what would this look like as a RoW?

Yeah, I realize it might sound a bit silly, but I don't have too much money to spend on it and I did mean relatively in the sense that it would be relative to fielding a primarch.

roll a dice for each enemy unit
on a 2+ it's actually alpha legion

>Spoiler area, if you read my spoilers you'll recognise my exact text, loads and loads of it.
I'm sure of it, but I don't have them on hand in order to google it and find the stolen excerps. Also, I'm reading MoM (lol mom), you captured the feeling.
I was asking what TFE meant, but I now remembered it's The First Expedition.
Is there something we could or you want us to do? If you're angry I can be angry with you too :)

>Did I use "whom" correctly?
Yes, "whom" replaces him or her (or [Helicopter noises] when talking about someone who identifies as an attack helicopter), "who" replaces he or she (or [Helicopter noises])
In the sentence "but it's Vulkan whom we're talking about" it wouldn't make sense to say "but it's Vulkan, we're talking about he" but it for "but it's Vulkan, we're talking about him" so whom is used.

No, don't do anything, I'm very mildly rustled, not actually angry, will probably just post
>Hi Ahriman's Aide, you cheeky bleeder
in like the next two generals or something. Thanks tho user!

500 point Terminator/ transport mini deathstar- AoD lists only, as a SW player and have no special units right now.
Was thinking of
5x Terminators-
4x twin LC
SGT with Plasma blaster, and Thunder hammer.

Land Raider Phobos dedicated transport.

Fuck, forgot armor style.
Cataphractii.

Opinions of this Cybernetica list? It's what I'm planning to be my first goal.

I know Meltastellaxes aren't very good compared to the other loadouts, but it's what you get in the Cybernetica Battlegroup. That everything has ETAs is also mostly to fill out the points to 2000, so I can avoid buying more models right off the bat That comes later

No, I'm just saying. I mean, a 2+/3++ EW Praetor with a Thunder Hammer mastercrafted for +5pts can be nasty as well. Like what I told FunkyRat, just be aware you're not using your Primarch THAAAAT much. Then again, Dawnbringer is the most hammer hammer to ever warhammer. Is it true it was going to be a gift to Horus, because fuck the Emp's Worldbreaker?
If you want Vulkan, bringing the Firedrakes seems fitting. So is a pimped Spartan. Those are lots of points in relatively few models, maybe that could serve you?
Oh, great
>or [Helicopter noises] when talking about someone who identifies as an attack helicopter
I like (You).
As you wish. Apparently he's also in 1d4chan.
Hey Ahriman's Aide, are you reading this? Learn how to quote, and give credit where its due.
I hope anons don't mind us writing some of the advice you guys say and adding it to the tactica? HHG would make a good think tank

What's a good armament for some Abhuman Helot and Gene-Crafted Ogryns? Was thinking of power mauls. 4 base attacks at S8 per model. Or would S7 power axes be better for the AP2? How many should one invest in?

Thanks for the advice, its just that I already have vulkan and it would be a waste not to use him.

Source?

Look up the TFE MoM thread, he says he's wanted to retcon it for a long time

z13.invisionfree.com/The_First_Expedition/index.php?showtopic=1979
Read the whole context. It'll give your anger even more power, that is :^)

>TFE
The First Expedition. It's where Laurie hangs out and smugs.

Since that'd be classic alpha legion rather than meme legion, something with hidden deployment, and bonuses to shooting on the turn they get revealed. Extra victory points for every unit/vehicle/character destroyed by your fastball unit.

The RoW disadvantage would be something about keeping that unit alive or giving up a victory point.

>Pick a number and keep it hidden
>On that turn all your weapons become Twin Linked in the shooting phase.
>The Mutable tactics must be Infiltrate
>The Primarch must be present and revealed by the turn number you picked.

>he says he's wanted to retcon it for a long time
>It'll give your anger even more power
>Don't for one minute think that William King's HH text will not be completely retconned at the first opportunity.
>It's where Laurie hangs out and smugs
>mfw
Oh that smug britbong needs a kidney stone the size of a land raider. But I will admit that
>Number XVI bestrides the broken body of Number IX. The Emperor looks blankly at them, sighs, goes SSGSS and blasts XVI with a Psychic Kamehameha so powerful the Chaos Gods themselves go ‘Damn’
made me kek.
>By removing the Emperor seeing any of the Primarchs as children or even caring about them beyond mere tools, it also removes his reasoning for not instantly obliterating Horus the moment he sees him on the Vengeful Sprit. It’s been mentioned that the Emperor was nearly killed because he held back, because he did not instantly just terminate Horus with extreme prejudice. But here, ADB has utterly removed that. There is literally no reason at all why the Emperor would not simply unleash his full power and snuff Horus out like a Tsunami on a bonfire. Which suggests one of two things. Either the Emperor was lying and he does care about the Primarchs, or that thanks to Horus’ power up even at his full power the Emperor was not stronger than Horus and couldn’t simply obliterate him and had to slug it out, getting ripped up as a result.

But far more than that, it also utterly robs said scene of the emotional intensity that has been attributed to it from the very start. Several times the emotional weight of Father confronting son and the final clash has been made both in and out of universe, and here it’s all swept away. Its creator confronts tool. That has nowhere near the same level of intensity or emotional resonance. How can you empathize with that?
This. All of this.

Yes I know copying Battlescribe is not the best, but I was in a hurry. Thoughts?

++ (Age of Darkness) (1800pts) Ordo Reductor ++

+ HQ (310pts) +

Magos Reductor (310pts) [Abeyant, Archmagos Reductor, Cyber-familiar, 4x Cyber-occularis, Djinn-skein, Machinator Array]

+ Troops (530pts) +

Adsecularis Covenant (100pts) [Carapace Armour, 20x Tech-thrall, The Rite of Pure Thought]

Adsecularis Covenant (100pts) [Carapace Armour, 20x Tech-thrall, The Rite of Pure Thought]

Thallax Cohort (165pts) [Destructor, Melta bombs, 3x Thallax]

Thallax Cohort (165pts) [Destructor, Melta bombs, 3x Thallax]

+ Elites (65pts) +

Tech-Priest Auxillia (65pts) [4x Servo-automata]
····Adept [Enginseer]

+ Fast Attack (210pts) +

Crusade Fleet Primaris-Lightning Strike Fighter (210pts) [Battle Servitor Control, Ground-tracking Auguries, 2x Two Kraken penetrator heavy missiles]

+ Heavy Support (685pts) +

Myrmidon Destructors (375pts) [2x Graviton Imploder, 2x Myrmidon Destructor, Triaros Armoured Conveyor]
····Myrmidon Lord [Graviton Imploder]

Ordo Reductor Artillery Tank Battery (310pts) [Medusa cannons]
····Ordo Reductor Artillery [Machine Spirit, Siege Plating]
····Ordo Reductor Artillery [Machine Spirit, Siege Plating]

+ Lord of War +

Stormsword with lascannon sponsons (470 pts)

++ (Allied Detachment) (730pts) Legio Cybernetica ++

+ HQ (315pts) +

Anacharis Scoria (315pts) [Xanathite Abeyant]

+ Troops (230pts) +

Castellax Class Battle-Automata Maniple (230pts)
····Castellax class Battle-automata [Two Power Blades]
····Castellax class Battle-automata [Two Power Blades]

+ Fast Attack (185pts) +

The Homonculex (185pts) [Arc Scourge]

Ok, to the people helping with the Baneblade variant choice earlier, I made a list. Does this seem OK? Warlord is the Reductor Archmagos, he goes with the enginseer and buffs/fixes the Stormsword.

Is Battlescribe playing up again, or can I have two archmagi in different detatchments? Can't reach my books ATM.

>>It'll give your anger even more power
Told ya
>But I will admit that "Number XVI bestrides the broken body of Number IX. The Emperor looks blankly at them, sighs, goes SSGSS and blasts XVI with a Psychic Kamehameha so powerful the Chaos Gods themselves go ‘Damn’" made me kek.
Same. But considering I feel nothing but contempt for both Horus and Lorgar, I'll be calling them Sixteenth/Warmaster and Seventeenth.

>Either the Emperor was lying and he does care about the Primarchs, or that thanks to Horus’ power up even at his full power the Emperor was not stronger than Horus and couldn’t simply obliterate him and had to slug it out, getting ripped up as a result.

Or the Emperor wasnt fighting against Horus but the Chaos gods while Horus ripped the Emperor a new one in the physical realm and after realizing he couldnt win against the gods he simply blasts Horus to non-existence breaking the link the gods had to reality.

You're welcome Black Library, I expect a warlord titan by christmas.

For the first two turns, you control your opponnent's units and your opponnent controls your units
You and your opponent do not roll for reserves.
You and your opponent may not fire weapons in the shooting phase, assault in the assault phase or cast non blessing powers in the psychic phase.

Wow, I didn't know a support Archmagos could still be that expensive. I remember something about only a single Archmagos being allowed in the army, but I checked and I couldn't find it, so I may be wrong. Then again, Cybernetica does explicitly say that if you're bringing an Archmagos Dominus then you can bring no other Archmagos of any kind, neither Taghmata nor Reductor. Something must be made if you want to keep that Djinn Skein, which Archmagos Dominus Scoria lacks.
>Is Battlescribe playing up again, or can I have two archmagi in different detatchments? Can't reach my books ATM.
You don't have them in your phone. Tell me it's not an Apple Scyllax phone.

>The opponent is still allowed, however, to spin around a lot and very fast, as well as making funny faces at you.
>This Rite of War makes the consumption of alcoholic beverages mandatory.

Losing the Djin-skein sucks, but that means I can lose a couple Cyber-Occularis as well as they were just acting as spotters, and that is about 100 pts freed up for other stuff. I'll manage.
Books aren't on phone because my phone throws a fit at the MEGA, and I haven't transferred them from my computer yet.
Support Magi are expensive as hell, but he is essentially several consuls in one, giving units of his choice Interceptor and cover reduction for 15 pts and buffing an Ordnance weapon with +1BS, Tank Hunting and +1 to damage table. That's a lot of force multipliers.

>Don't for one minute think that William King's HH text will not be completely retconned at the first opportunity.
is this because they know they can't actually write something as good?

The horus heresy was never really high literature to begin with, but they've kind of gone off the rails with the tone of the whole thing, even within their own works. Retconning king's story when they deliberately reprinted it at the start of the series as a way of showing where the story would end up is kind of against the point, you'd think.

>Told ya
And you were right, user.
>But considering I feel nothing but contempt for both Horus and Lorgar, I'll be calling them Sixteenth/Warmaster and Seventeenth.
I'd call them "Misguided Tyrannical Edgelord" and "Whinny Choirboy".
>You're welcome Black Library, I expect a warlord titan by christmas.
>Oh user, that's not good enough for me. You get nothing!
Says Goulding.

The way they're going I bet these faggots won't even end the series with
>I was there, the day that Horus killed the Emperor

Watch out. Cyber-Occularii give Interceptor to nearby models, not units (so bubble wrap them, they have Stealth), but the cover recutor (aaay) happens when it is close to the enemy, rather than near an ally. Maybe you are aware of that, I'm just being clear.
I know whe whole gist of your list is to use Scoria, so I won't mention Satarael being an Archmagos Dominus that also has a Djinn skein. Then again, what is +1BS to Large Blast weapons?

Just finished Master of Mankind, a few thoughts:

The state of the Custodes at the end of the book doesn't really lend itself to how many were described in TBA series.

Not all that pleased with Emps viewing the primarchs by their number designation as things he created, purely as tools. Surprise surprise Emps is a collassal douchecanoe under ADB.

Oh and Chaos' inevitable victory 10,000 years later is assured. Of course. Once again ADB's view of how it all ends is reinforced. No, there's no hope, there's no Star child, there's no reincarnation of the Emperor if the golden Throne fails. Just Chaos will devour all.

>but they've kind of gone off the rails with the tone of the whole thing, even within their own works
I think Matt Damon, the Cabal, Perpetuals, and Deathfire are the highlights of their insanity. But we shouldn't blame Deathfire on all of them, just Kyme and Laurie since the latter is the editor. Also Kyme dones't look like the way I imagined him. For the longest time I'd pictured him to be a Rasputin/Manson looking psychopath that needs to be restrained at all times.

He looks just the way he writes, clean, dull and uninspiring.

If only his books were as short as he is.

>Surprise surprise Emps is a collassal douchecanoe under ADB.
Not sure why he does it though.
>Oh and Chaos' inevitable victory 10,000 years later is assured. Of course. Once again ADB's view of how it all ends is reinforced. No, there's no hope, there's no Star child, there's no reincarnation of the Emperor if the golden Throne fails. Just Chaos will devour all.
I wouldn't worry about it too much. Pic related and the current Chaos dex will explain it all.
Haven't thought about it like that.
How short is he?

user, Primarchs may be men, but certainly aren't children, even if they do act like that. The Emperor created them not out of paternal feelings, but because he needed generals, and He was going to raise them as such. Things got out of hand when chaos kidnapped them, and He has indeed served as a mentor to them, but he's simply reminding himself they have a duty to mankind before everything else.

Also, He's immortal. When you reach a certain age you stop giving a fuck, and that's in the span of a single mortal life. To the Emperor, who has known countless people for several lifetimes, the entire concept of a person boils down entirely to circumstance, nothing more.

The Emperor wasn't a god, so please stop assuming he's perfect, omniscient, omnipotent and all-loving. He's not giving you free-will either, so be compliant of fucking perish, thank you very much ;^)

In this case, the Emperor very much exists, and isn't your parents. Or anyone's father, no matter how much Dorn or Guilliman want to believe so.

He's 5 foot 3 inches
source: I've stood next to him and I'm a 5 foot 7 manlet

Yeah, that is the difficult part of using those. Maybe I will have them follow my Thallax around, hand out Interceptor, be in good spotting position and allow them to ignore 4+ cover within 12".

My Scoria conversion I have planned would also work as Satarael, so maybe I'll use him from time to time. He is essentially a support Scoria, plus no Slay the Warlord 2/3 of the time.

And you have stood beside him where?

Nice try, fed.

did you pee in the urinal beside him

>but he's simply reminding himself they have a duty to mankind before everything else.
ADB please, we know he had paternal feelings towards Horus, and at the very least feelings of camaraderie towards most other primarchs. Regardless of how many retcons get piled on after the fact.

I doubt he saw me pee, most likely met him in whw during an open day.

Exactly. The whole: oh, ima refer to them by their number because they are tools to be discarded when need be. thing kinda falls apart when their was that whole retirement/vacation home built under the palace for all the Primarchs to use when the Crusade ended.

You clearly don't put your tools away neatly when you've finished with them for the day.

I'm not a mental case who builds a dollhouse and holiday retreat for my needle files, no.