Imperial Guard VS Stormtrooper

>Because the AT-AT is close in height and armanment to a Warhound Titan
In armament?

The Warhound has pretty big guns, the AT-AT doesn't look like it has much more than a tank gun, at very most - it's mainly a transport isn't it?

Laser Cannons are starfighter level weaponry. Warhounds are more heavily armed, but the laser cannons can penetrate starship armour. So close.

>40kids
Please keep it civil.

...

Consider for a moment the size of the Imperium and that roughly 3-5% of the population is in guard regiments. Of course they are outclassed individually by pretty much everything within the WH40k setting itself, simply because humans are extremely weak when compared to pretty much everything else. Yet their greatest strength lies within in the grinder. You can destroy their planets, implode stars and whatever, but the guard never stops grinding. It will grind against the opposition until there is nothing left, like it has been doing for the past 10,000 years.
>Pretty much like how fire ants still manage to kill Americans every year.

That is a hard question user. It'd come down to numbers.

Giving it to the stormtroopers though because of superior firepower within the assumptions this is just a sole infantry deployment but the guard would steal the show with amassed leman russ and executioner cannons.

Just how I see it going is all. Both an Imperial Guard fanboy and Empire fanboy

>Do you really want Vader to bring his full force powers, lightsaber etc.
I absolutely love star wars as I grew up with it and was probably what started me on my sci-fi ways, BUT if you think that Darth Vader would even survive a single volley from a warhound vulcan mega bolter or Inferno cannon? No.

>No Warp or Force fuckery. Straight Human Armys with their Canon gear and tactics. Ground battle or boarding only.
Are we talking about nuCanon Stormtroopers or Legends Stormtroopers?

So?

First off, you've got all the settings in which humanity, or some sort of collective which humanity is a part of, has spread to galaxies other than the Milky Way, and thus probably have higher population counts than the IoM humanity.

You've got all the settings where the technology is so far in advance of what 40k has that it doesn't matter how many bodies the Imperium throws; if their ships are being reliably obliterated long before they get to the conflict zone, who cares?

You've got all the settings where humanity has ascended into some kind of godlike state and isn't even directly fightable.

You've got all the settings where the enemy can avoid the grinder, most likely by employing superior strategic mobility.

40k just isn't that powerful of a setting in the grand scheme of things, and that's part of what makes it work. You've got humanity on a slow death spiral, it undercuts your own point to talk about your mighty technology, and that body flinging isn't actually working, the IoM loses ground every century.

Also

>that roughly 3-5% of the population is in guard regiments

Curious, what's the basis for that? Not that I'm disbelieving it per se but I don't think I've ever seen something supporting that.

Vader deploys Starkiller

It isn't even a contest

Well it depends on if Vader is stupid enough to let it hit him. This is vader who can do force jumps. For a titan to hit a single guy is tricky. Also, I was more thinking what Vader would do to the soldiers, not verses the warhound.

Other user, but, dude, he would just stop the bullets with the force, or use it to get out of the line of fire before they were even shot. Force is pretty powerfull

Emprah deploys Sly Marbo

>Not canon anymore
>;_;
The thing is, I can imaging stopping small calibur bullets and such and even energy projectiles using the force due to the small amount of weight and momentum it carries, but stopping even a single bullet at that calibur, let alone thousands from a volley and not even counting the shrapnel from the ground detonation... No, sorry I simply don't see it happening from any stand point. Darth vader was never meant to be used that way.
Oh well to each his own. I enjoy the guard precisely because they are not invincible, can blow up moons with pistols etc etc. The entire "3-5%" is simply a speculation of mine, considering in that if a larger amount of that is in the guard, it will start to cause a strain in logistics. For every soldier, you need about 10 civilians keeping the war machine going.

Well, fair enough, he probably wouldn't stop them. Still, I can't see him being hit by them, what with force spider sense and speed

Stormtroopers are the elite force of the Empire. There's regular Imperial ground troops as well.

Guard would crush them due to having proper tanks, and logistics beyond 'we run the galaxy so you can't touch our supply ships'.

The imperium deploys these 4 to take out Vader, Starkiller, Palpatine, and various other empire high command. do they succeed?

The imperium are more used to fighting opponents eith similar or superior power to their own. The galactic empire does not. At least as far as OT. So I'd give it to imperium. Clone wars era republic might take it though

>Palpatine
>the guy who can literally force-lightning an entire planet if he wants

Sure, let them try.

>Callidus disguised herself as Juno, Kills starkiller when he hesitates/has a bitch fit.
>Eversor fights Vader, vader eventually dominating the eversor with a chokehold after much difficulty. Dies when the eversor explodes after going critical.
>Culexus cancels out every force power palpatine throws at him. Eventually drives him insane and makes his head turn inside out.
>Boba fett Vs Vindicare?

Mandos kill jedi, my friend...stormtroopers WIPED OUT the jedi...the Guard will have NO PROBLEM turning jedi into grease for their tank treads....
And I would LOVE to see a company of leman's take on an at-at force....

>Can fry a planet with force lightning
>Gets thrown down a hole
Ok.

Palpatine is an acomplished duelist. While that scene was annoying he did kill 3 acomplished duelists, who were veterans of a war.

Stormtroopers start off with plasma guns that don't get hot, I'd give them the advantage here.

He was, but a Culexus drives pretty much everything around it inside, especially if you are "gifted". I don't even think he would be able to look at the assassin, much less fight him.
>Auin'va was assassinated by a Culexus
Considering he was considered greatest of the ethereals of the Tau sept, with a massive body guard count, it says a lot about the martial skill and power of a culexus, especially considering Tau have only a tiny speck of warp presence.

Nice meme. Blasters don't pack the punch of a 40k plasma gun, they're more analogous to lasguns on a high-power LVS mode.

>Powerful automatic plasma carbines.
>Can't hit shit, gets plowed by a rusty ol smuggler with a blaster pistol and his pet shaggy dog.

[Spoiler] AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH [/spoiler]

Nothing Humbles a man like Gravity

Since you're being vague, I'm going to take that as "anything the IG could possibly throw into a ground war" against "anything the empire could throw into a ground war".

Assuming that definition, then the IG would win through sheer variety of shit they can throw in. What does the Empire have? Stormtroopers of a dozen flavors. What does the Guard have? Hundreds of different doctrines with hundreds of regiments within them.

Besides, the empire's troops got busted by guerilla ewoks. The Catachans would consider fighting them a vacation.

I'm arguing whether Vader would win versus a warhound my friend... not whether jedi in general would win versus ig in general...

Here's a better question

>If the two switched settings, could the IG crush the rebellion, Luke Skywalker included, and could the Stormtroopers effectively defend the Imperium?

>could the Stormtroopers effectively defend the Imperium?
I would pay money to see this.

>could the IG crush the rebellion
Easily

>could the storm troopers effectovely defend the imperium
In space they could do it even better than the imperium. In ground battles they'd get fucked

Death Star shooing laser versus the hive fleets? pew pew pew

>Empire btfo by guerilla teddy bears armed with sticks and rocks
Gee i fucking wonder.

>Stormtroopers vs. Orks are the most dangerous engagements. Not for the soldiers, for any civilians in the area who will probably get hit by a stray shot.

Creed certainly couldn't take an AT-AT's guns anymore than Darth could a Warhound's

but user, the force is literally plot armour.

>Not even Xeelee

For shame.

Vader and Palpatine BTFO by the culexus, they wouldn't be able to use the force around it. Any of these 4 assassins would be enough to take out any of the other empires important people

>>Culexus cancels out every force power palpatine throws at him.
How?

care to back up those claims?

I've never really understood the whole 'Plot-armour' thing. Somebody survived because of the plot? Yeah, no shit, so what?

The culexus doesn't register in the warp (or in this case, the force) at all, it cannot be targeted or affected by psychic powers at all. In addition to this, it cancels out any osychic arguments or curses around it, so palpatine shouldn't even be able to use the force to make himself faster or stronger. On top of all this, the culexus will make him feel pain and horror like he has never experienced before.

>getting this upset in a "my fictional setting beats your fictional setting" thread

/thread

Ok, so you're assuming that Force users and Psykers are the same thing. That is an assumption that I don't think is appropriate to make.

i would bet in ig nothing impressive about the empires land forces. storm troopers have nothing on your average ig conscript that can do melee with orks and nids given the order. the blasters and the ig flashlight seem to be about equally powerful but the ig can actually use cover which gives them unfair advantage.

Even if use of the force isn't hampered by pariahs the sheer null-ness of the culexus would probably still incapacitate him, as he has never encountered a pariah before

Yes, when was the last time a blaster rifle disintigrated half of someone's body, or punched a hole in a tank? Because 40k plasma rifles do that.

Most debates I've seen between SW and WH tend to make the two roughly equal for how counters against them work out.

Like you could pit Kharn the Betrayer against Vader and all the force powers in the world would do dick all thanks to Khorne's favor.

Pitting Khârn against anything is pretty unfair though

That's fair, even if the Culexus doesn't cancel out the Force, it's mere presence would be driving him insane through the terror, dread, and disgust that it produces.
See, (I'm assuming that you don't know much about nulls and such, but correct me if I'm wrong) a Culexus is a powerful null, and nulls don't have souls. Only not in the way a machine doesn't have a soul. See, a null is basically a walking vacuum of soul stuff, since it doesn't have one itself, it naturally sucks in stuff to fill the void, much like air rushes into the vacuum after a lightning strike.
However, the "vacuum" nulls produce can't be filled. Things that posess souls, read: just about any sapient organism, instinctively fear these creatures as they basically absorb their life force. Now, depending on the power of nulls, the insinctual feelings that people feel around nulls ranges from "Dude, you fugly" to "FUCKING KILL HIM WITH FIRE THE BASTARD". Culexus nulls are recruited from the nulls on the latter half of the spectrum. Then, they are augmented and trained to the nearest level to a space marine a person can get without actually being a space marine, then they are given a piece of Dark Age tech that increases their null power to "Looking a Dark God in the eye" while also allowing them to focus their nullness and even use it as a ranged weapon. They could quite literally kill you just by looking at you, and these motherfuckers are less human than Eversors to boot.

Yeah that motherfucker could probably kill swaths upon swaths of force users.

The Culexus has never encountered a Palpatine?

Culexuses are used to dealing with uglier dudes like Eversors so it should be fine

So since the thread has been taken over by people trying to beat the Empire using the Imperium, how about we look at the actual topic. Stormtroopers vs Imperial Guard. No Officio Assassinorum, no Force Users, no warp dickery. Simply which army is better in regards to its troops, logistics, and training. I stand by what I said earlier. One regiment vs One regiment, Stormtroopers win, since a Stormtrooper regiment is a full combined arms force. Once you get more variety of Imp G regiments in, the balance swings towards the people who can drown the others in bodies.

Regiment vs regiment would be pretty meaningless as the IG almost never deploys only a single regiment.

Even if it's regiment vs regiment, the balance would heavily depend on what regiment the Imperium fielded and the location of the battle.

Imperial brings Catachans to a jungle fight? The stormies are fucked.

>stormtroopers in the jungle
Talk about unfair disadvantage

An example I posted earlier was the 8th cadian vs the 501st. Two elite regiments. without proper tank support, the 8th loose, since the 501st deploy with AT-ATs, and a full tie Wing, something that most Stormtrooper regiments deploy with. I would back the Stormtroopers up to 5v5 regiments, (so an average Imp G deployment), since Stormtroopers are better soldiers than your average Imp G grunt.

how the fuck does one side get AT-ATs AND air support and the other side gets no tanks?

explain this bullshit

How much stormtroopers are even in a regiment? Some IG regiments go up to half a million men after all while some barely have 2k

IG regiments are specialized, Stormies are diverse.

Because Stormtrooper regiments deploy as combined arms forces. Imp G regiments are specialized for a specific role. The closest to combined arms the Imperium gets is Mechanized Infantry. If the argument is 1v1 thats why I say the Stormtroopers would destroy the Imp G at that level. Don't get annoyed becuase one side uses different structures than the other.

well that's a pretty damn retarded point of comparison then, isn't it?

OP clearly stated armies though. So combined arms would probably be a given

There are things in the Star Wars universe that cannot be affected by the force because they have no presence in it, like the yuuzhan Vong. It's safe to assume that a culexus also wouldn't register in the force for the sake of this crossover.

Since the Imp G would not have access to Titans, only Baneblades, , I guess it would depend on the fight between the At-Ats and the Tank regiments. While Stormtroopers are better soldiers, the Imp G would have more bodies to throw. It would also depend on the battle between the Lightning pilots and the Tie Wings. If the Tie Wings managed to take down the lightnings, then bombing runs would shatter the Imp G. If the lightnings won, it would be less important, since the Imp G have far less Vultures than the Stormtroopers have tie bombers.

>Imp G
Why?
Also nice assumptions about air wings. The Guard wouldn't actually get any though if the naavy isn#t involved. If the navy was involved, they too would have numbers on their side.
Also I'm pretty sure a Shadowsword would have no problem with taking down an AT-AT or ten

Differences in composition between factions. He's also ignoring that the 8th has integrated Leman Russ units and that Stormtrooper Legions can have over 10,000 troops compared to the Cadian 8th's 8000 men.

The 8th Cadian have a few Leviathan command Vehicles attached.

AT-AT's are utterly crushed.

1d4chan.org/wiki/Leviathan

>all those outdated memes in the first paragraph alone

It was the easiest way to show the multiple pictures, I'm sorry.

It's okay. In time, I will recover

How about instead of being obtuse about technicalities in force composition, we assume that everything in the IG codex and any supplemental materials is usable for this campaign. As for the empire, anything they use as ground forces in legends canon is usable for the battle.

I type imp G because it is quicker. Also, Im currently writng about the Whermacht for a paper so Stormtrooper is muscle memory, Imperial Guard less so. The air wings I went off the fact that an Imperium Carrier has about 60 Lightnings in it and about 20 vultures, whereas a Star Destroyer transports around 150 mixed classes of aircraft.

Reminder that Palp is like the second or third greatest lightsaber duelist in the galaxy. I think Palp could take on a Culexus. The man is literally the best at everything. Except having his shit wrecked by his co-worker's kid and his asshole friends.

Just type IG.
Why Imp G?

It's fighting prowess is the least of the problems when dealing with a Culexus

*Sly Marbo gets woken up by the conflict and deploys himself, while the emperor sits in the golden potty

My understanding of the fluff is that that is an effect of 40k humans' interaction the warp (the soul and such), so my thought is that Palpatine would have the exact same aura because he doesn't interact with the warp at any level. Continuing on that theory, the Culexus lack of any connection to the Force would pose an issue with Palpatine, leaving it to martial skill and powers that generate tangible changes to the physical world like Force lightning and blast of flame or whatever.

Auin'va was a cripple in a space wheelchair, I think I could take him in a fight. That being said Culexus are no joke and are still horrible anti-psyker boogeymen that will murder the shit out of many things saying that the orders greatest accomplishment is killing space-FDR is kinda underselling them. Hell he doesn't have any magic powers just two buff oiled up man servants, and saying that compares to Palpatine is kinda dumb. Palpatine is easily an Alpha Level psyker if we want to compare magic powers, also are we sure that a Null would effect the Force? I agree it's their best bet, but I'm not convinced that a Culexus would have an effect on good ol' Sheev would be hampered by the null field.

No, the reason its generally assumed that the force and psyker powers from the warp interact with each other in the same way is because thats the only way to make it interesting. By your theory, every single person in star wars is a blank because they don't use the warp. on the flip side, no one from 40k can be affected by the force because they're from a different galaxy.

Sure that's assuming that the Force = Warp which I would say it doesn't, see . Even if that's the case that's the case it's still a Culexus vs someone with the skill of Sigismund on a bad day with a migraine and nausea. My money is still on Palp.

>Imperium Carrier capacity
I'm curious where you got that stat. No sarcasm, genuinely curious.

Because if you are talking Imperial Navy which possesses the vast bulk of both voidfighters and atmospheric fighters, then you're throwing void-shielded Fury Interceptors into the mix which are basically Skipray Blastboats aka small-craft murderers.

As stated before, Culexus have strong effects on non-psykers as well. Pariahs have been shown to send IG veterans straight into a catatonic state aand I think it's save to say that a Culexus is even worse.

Not him but, I would say that the powers aren't transparent. The Warp =/= the Force, it doesn't mean that the Warp couldn't effect a person from SWs or that the Force couldn't effect a person from 40k, just that something that cancels out the Warp wouldn't cancel out the Force and vice versa. Both sides would still have magic powers they'd just be different.

Yes but this is not an IG veteran this is Palpatine. This is a character on a whole other level. Culexus are badass, I know that. Hell I think that they're the best choice to take down Palp outside of a shit ton of Grey Knights/ Custodes but it's just a manner of scale of power. Palpatine has the mental fortitude to control the entirety of the Imperial Fleet and the ground forces during the Battle of Endor while still shit-talking two of the most powerful Jedi to ever live, use Sith mind games in an attempt to corrupt one of them and keep the other under his control, and then proceeds to kick the shit out of Luke. He also survives an extended blast of Force Lighting to his face from himself that is powerful enough to throw the greatest duelist 50+ meters out a goddamned window for 15+ seconds. Then man is a beast.

>the IG almost never deploys only a single regiment.
This isn't meant to be a 'realistic' scenario, so your objection is pointless.