Warcraft Lore and RPG Discussion

They're the good kind of retread in that those two groups show up and say "we know what you're going through," and we the heroes can apply the lessons we learned those times to the new problem.

yeah, I really like where the Insurrection chain is going, but I'm gonna be pissed if the rumors that we don't kill Elisande in NH are true
bitch needs to be taken out

Quite good, overall. There are, however, some sore points that I can't get over, like the whole "Illidan is our saviour" bullshit, half of Val'sharah's storyline, and the neverending whining-jobbing-corruption combo coming from Demon Hunters.

We'll kill her in Nighthold, but several patches later, Blizz will bring her back as the disappointing end to an otherwise phenomenal 5 man.

I'm fine with the whole Illidan Is Our Savior thing personally. The wank that the stupid Prime Naaru hoisted on him in all those cutscenes was annoying and cringeworthy, I'll agree with that. But the retcons they put into Burning Crusade were nice. Nobody liked HE WENT CUH-RAZAY so changing it so all the stuff he was doing in that expansion was really a Machiavellian scheme to get what he needed to beat the Legion once and for all only for us to fuck him over because the shit he was doing was unforgivable was a much better setup and very in-line with his WC3 Character. Plus narratively it being a retcon actually works because if we'd known about it in the moment it wouldn't have made sense for us to kill him and if it had been revealed after the idea that by killing him we may have fucked ourselves forever would have been hanging over everything for years. I mean, theoretically, since they obviously didn't have the idea back then.

Anyway, the running story thread of us racing against the Legion to recover his super magical corpse was fun. The reveal that Illidan wasn't really as clever as he thought, Sarg knew all along about how his dirty deeds were a convoluted plan to destroy the legion, and everything Illidan did was actually part of HIS plan to create a perfect new vessel for his soul was a cool one. And his resurrection cutscene is pretty dope. Other than the CONCEPT being kind of stupid and fan-wanky, the story itself has been mostly well-executed. I'm at least interested to see what happens next and if they're going to botch it like they did with Kerrigan.

Plus, Illidan the dindu isn't new. In Cata, the last bit of the Felwood quest is literally you run into a Demon Hunter who had gone around killing druids, and then he explains to you, in great detail and horribly cringeworthy cutscenes, how Illidan is the true hero of everything and just wanted to save the world!!!!1111!!! but everyone was totally mean to him.

Also it had an inexplicably not terribly evil Arthas in there for really no good reason. Whole quest was dumb. Kinda fun, but dumb.

I care about literally nothing else in Warshit anymore EXCEPT for Wrathion
Please tell me he is in Leigon and it explains his reasoning for manipulating Kairoz to fuck up time and let Garrosh go back in time (and dimension for some reason) to Draenor

>muh RvB
I would throw my lot in with the Legion if I didn't know that it's really a bunch of loot-crazed assholes that do the heavy lifting in Warcraft these days

I get it with Illidan to a point, but I will never understand Blizzard's obsession with retconning Arthas to have been secretly good way deep down. In the very first mission of WC3 one of Arthas' quotes is about how much better he knows how to run things that Uther and his dad. He was ALWAYS a prick. Stratholm only happened because Uther saved him at Hearthglen and he was so butthurt about it he had to swing his dick around and prove HE could solve problems without anybody's help.

Like, showing that some part of Arthas was still HUMAN was fine. His secret locked chest of keepsakes that give some closure to Muradin and Jaina and his other victims was a great tidbit, it made me feel good that those characters could put everything behind them by seeing those things and knowing that Arthas hadn't totally ripped all feelings out of himself. But the whole "He was holding back the Scourge subconsciously to save the world," thing and the questline with that little ghost kid who represented Arthas' good side trying to help you kill him was all so lame. Just let him be fucking evil, knock off the ROAD TO HELL PAVED WITH GOOD INTENTIONS shit.

I believe Wrathion and Kairoz knew about the Burning Legion's imminent invasion and had hoped to manipulate Garrosh and his new Iron Horde to combat them. Obviously, they failed. Garrosh killed Kairoz and Wrathion fucked off to no where.

In Legion's alpha, Wrathion was a Tauren spiritwalker who guided the Highmountain clan, but secretly he was procuring uncorrupted black dragon eggs. But Blizzard replaced Wrathion and his storyline with a new black dragon, so as of now, Wrathion is no where to be found in Legion.

>Wrathion realizes that Azeroth's heroes cannot defeat the Burning Legion if the Alliance and Horde continue to squabble
>convinces Anduin and Baine to step up and take control of their factions, leading to a peace between the Alliance and the Horde
How would Veeky Forums feel about this?

>Wrathion is no where to be found in Legion.

He was a righteous paladin to the letter, always doing good, no matter how small(the book of the villager) how dangerous or how long it takes. He was willing make the hard decisions, take sacrifices and in the end ever a curse and possible martyrdom to save his kingdom. And the end he fell because he tried too hard to be a good paladin.

But yeah, everything about him in WotLk was pure shit, the fucking Lich King shouldnt show up in every zone to talk shit like Dr. Claw. Nerzhul getting retconned out was fucking BULLSHIT too. The only thing I liked was his death. He didnt get redeemed, or died with villanious laughter. He died as himself. Realized he fucked up big time and it was too late to fix things, its an eternity in hell because he tried too hard. Not even after grabbing Frostmourne was everything lost, he broke free in TFT but even after getting his soul back he consciously chose the path of light kingdom instead of a hard but possible redemption. It was so humane and touching in a way. Its rare to see supervillains this human and relatable in WoW instead of being larger than life cardboard cutouts.

>a Demon Hunter who had gone around killing druids,
m8 the entire point of that quest chain is that those Druids were all satyrs pretending to be Druids

Illidan on BC was just a cunt warlord that raised the middle finger to everyone else... If he wasnt self absorbed on his own paranoia and superiority complex he could just stopped all that shit...Its not like making peace with a Naaru would be difficult at all.... but he dosent even bother.

It was poor written, but not unrealistic... It was a classic trope where the character got to powerfull and in order to keep his power he thrown his morals to the window (not sure if Illidan had any btw) and become the BBEG for the next generation to fight... When Illdan conquered the BT he become a dictator... ok, almost make sense..

To have a naaru saying "ah btw, he was right, all his superiority complex is justified and btw you are wrong.." is just a kick on my balls....

Also is strange that Adal dindt even had a input on that... Khadgar was super buddy buddy with that super chandelier and dindt even had the thought to question him about what he would do with a Naaru artifact.

It is almost like they just want to forget Khadgar on BC, besides that arcana-elemental-tour joke on your Garisson...

not good enough desu. The only outcome I'll accept for her other than permanent death is warlocks taking her broken body back to the Dreadscar Rift to be their demons' plaything for eternity
karma's a bitch

It seems way too straitforward for Wrathion. "I will make peace by talking to the two most reasonable leaders," isn't his style because it leaves the decision in their hands. He's always been the type to try and make sure there's no real choice in any choice he offers.

I would like to see Wrathion getting involved with because he wants to steer the Alliance toward some end, and I could see him using Ebonhorn to do the same with Baine for the Horde. For instance, using a faux vision quest of some kind to trick Baine into assassinating Sylvanas because she's too dangerous and trying to stoke Anduins negative feelings toward Greymane in order to get him to put the old wolf to the sword before his guerilla actions kick off the 5th War.

Naturally both of these efforts blow up in his face because Wrathion is the best at fucking up.

The book says that the whole time he was having his soliloquy about feeling nothing about what he had done he was trying to ignore how it definitely was affecting him.

He was a tad obsessive, which is something Uther even commented on, there's a letter in WOW somewhere where he says to another Paladin that Arthas is shaping up pretty good, but he's too single minded and talks about how he went and tracked down a bunch of wolves and skinned them to make furs for a woman who lost her arm to them or something.

>The book says

The story in the games has to stand on its own. Homework is not acceptable to make a story make sense.

"At the hour of her third death, she ushers in our coming."

What did he mean by that?

>trick... into assassinating
Wrathion ought to know damn well that Azeroth's heroes will do literally anything for a shiny - if not from his own shenanigans in Pandaria, then from hanging around Khadgar's tower in AU Draenor. All he'd have to do is take the adventurers' habit of hunting the faction leaders for sport and make it canon.

>Warcraft books
pic related

Why is my liege Anduin's boipussy so highly prized?

Sylvanas. She has already died twice already -- the first time to Arthas and the second time to Lord Godfrey. The first time, Sylvanas was risen by Arthas to become a banshee. The second time, the val'kyr brought Sylvanas back to life. Now that Sylvanas no longer controls the val'kyr, she will certainly remain dead if she were to die a third time. However, to escape this fate, Sylvanas will make a deal with N'zoth -- ensure her immortality and she, and her Forsaken, will serve him.

He's soft and sweet. I would honestly single handedly take down the Legion if it meant I could beat up Anduin's guts with my dick.

Never underestimate the power of dick.

>ax a pyremaster because he would have sided with Garrosh
>now ax a shadow priest because he would have sided with Sylvanas

I doubt that Horde will get a double raid boss special. Regardless of the fact it makes no sense, it'll probably be Jaina. Blizzard's got a pretty good track record for hints just being half-assed shit and character development getting unwritten when needed.

Cool, the reason I usually don't partake in these threads has arrived. Don't you have a /pfg/ to shit up, too?

You forgot the time she did a swandive off ICC and went to Super-Hell, which led to her making a pact with the Val'kyr in the first place.

You act like posting on different threads is some big thing

More likely that her deaths are the ones following her first. I assume if it is her, then Sylvanas the banshee is considered a seperate existence from the ranger-general.

>Wrathion realizes that Azeroth's heroes cannot defeat the Burning Legion if the Alliance and Horde continue to squabble
>convinces Anduin and Baine to step up and take control of their factions, leading to a peace between the Alliance and the Horde
How would Veeky Forums feel about this?

I'm perfectly fine with it. I don't mind the Alliance and Horde being in conflict, or at outright war, but I do mind not having a good reason to do so. I think the best explanation comes from a GD post I saw about one year ago. Had to do some digging to find it, but it's a quite good representation of my own ideas: us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20042824107?page=2#post-30

We could have both Jaina and Sylvanas go crazy and it'd be cool if it was the Horde that had to take down Jaina and the Alliance that had to take down Sylvanas.

Also,

Man, the gay shit only makes up 3 posts in the entire thread. I even abstained myself from including it in my other posts, because I thought it might upset people. And I mean, come on, literally look at the previous threads -- there are people that literally talk about how much they want to fuck Sylvanas' "maggot infested pussy," but I don't see you or anyone else complaining about that.

Do you hate gays that much?

Hmm, that's true. That kind of fucks up the theory then. Maybe Il'gynoth is only counting her two deaths as Sylvanas, Banshee Queen, because that's who she considers to be her "real self?"

I mean, at some point, Wrathion has to look himself in the mirror and go, "Maaaaybe I shouldn't be an asshole for once. I mean, the world is literally about the end."

Character growth!

She doesn't even look dead. What's the point in returning from the dead if all that happens is that your skin/eyes change colour?

>directly state that the /pfg/-tier waifufagging and husbandofagging usually makes me ignore thes threads
>how come you hate gays reeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Fuck off with the victim complex, faggot.

>character growth
>after seeing what they did to Garrosh and basically any kaldorei
lel

Youre the one acting like hes been raped friend

POST >yfw EBON BLADE WORLD POLICE HAS BEEN CONFIRMED

>Wrathion realizes that Azeroth's heroes cannot defeat the Burning Legion if the Alliance and Horde continue to squabble
>convinces Anduin and Baine to step up and take control of their factions, leading to a peace between the Alliance and the Horde

I couldn't love this more. Wrathion is one of the only characters created after WC3 that I like, and I'm a tauren player so of course I want the tauren in charge, not to mention the fact that they are the least war-mongering and have good relations with multiple Ally races.

I think the faction war should be played up like once every 2-3 expansions. Some story reason why the Ally and Horde are close to all out war and give us some new battlegrounds. Then let the tensions die out (even if a character has to die) and give us 2-3 expansions where we focus on other shit.

>I think the faction war should be played up like once every 2-3 expansions. Some story reason why the Ally and Horde are close to all out war and give us some new battlegrounds. Then let the tensions die out (even if a character has to die) and give us 2-3 expansions where we focus on other shit.

They will need to do this soon. We will go to Argus this expansion and beyond demons we only have Azshara and Old Gods left to kill... Or do some Warcraft 4 to fresh out some new characters with a 5 years time skip maybe.

It would actually be good a new cataclysm revamp to fix these incredible ugly and outdated tree texture... I am tired to fly with ps2 graphics on my face...

I want this gnommer to do things to me bobby

They confirmed at Blizzcon that he's back in Azeroth and we'll see him later. Ebonhorn even mentioned he had some "family issues" to attend to.

whats your opinion on Panda Shadowpriests? I usually play mind as Call of Cthulhu investigators fighting fire with fire.

pandaren dont exist in my canon

I tried to think on asian humans on my headcanon but after seeing all those pandas running I cant picture anything less than a obese human... which is far worse than pandas, btw...

"Taran Zhu, the leader of a obese ninja squad."

why is thunderbluff in the nightmare?

I thought the emerald dream was supposed to be what azeroth would be without civilization?

Taurens don't count as civilized.

really? is that really why thudnerbluff exists?

I need pictures of gnome women for reasons

goblins girls too

Isn't the bluff itself natural? There aren't buildings in the nightmare, right.

Because bluffs are a part of natural geography. Why the fuck wouldn't they be there?

it is

for whatever reason, the city is there

the city user, not the natural formation of the land

T. Vault plunderer

>We'll kill her in Nighthold

Voice files for the raid say otherwise.

>tfw it's a specific Druid's nightmare exacerbated by her grief over her death being twisted into a hatred of the Horde and especially of Tauren

Plus, the Nightmare is a corruption of the Dream - what better way to corrupt nature than to introduce civilization?

Eh, then chalk it up to Blizzard being shitty at their job. Don't forget that in the Moonglade section, there's Nighthaven even more obvious than Thunder Bluff.

Fuck Gilneas. Fuck Worgen, it's just a haven for furry faggots.

Gilneas would be cool if it was just a human nation again. Humans are boring because everything is Stormwind Stormwind STORMWIND.

Blizzard won't allow humans to have more than one kingdom, it's pretty retarded.

>tfw DKs will never be a real class in Hearthstone
a fucking sick zoo lock card is fine too though

I just want their zone and city.

I still don't understand why The Last Guardian and TBC decided to age lift Khadgar that much. After all, he always were shown to be middle aged at best, which still could work with Medivh using Life Steal on him to age Khadgar up and make himself younger.
youtube.com/watch?v=ki3y2-XI0bY

>the titans discarded sentient bulldozing equipment
That's the best description of the Breakers I have seen so far.
Also, I am pretty sure that Botani are also Titan creation.
Truly, Titans had really dark period while ordering this world, akin to when God created Australia.
>you will never explore Farahlon in WoD, because Blizzard used excuse of "We don't think this zone would fit in the theme of this expansion"
Not mentioning other continent where another/main Ogre Empire was supposed to be located.

Not mentioning that it would be better if some of the Clans that were forced to join Iron Horde would be made into allies after defeat instead of basically decimating them.
>You won't have Fenris Wolfbrother and Thunderlord Clan as part of the Horde
>You won't have well versed in Shamanistic tradition, stargazing, and even Void knowledgeable Shadowmoon Clan aiding Alliance in Draenor
And the retardedly cut short plot of Cho'Gall and his new "Masters", which should be used to introduce concept of Void Lords, instead of having to learn about it from Chronicles first.

>>ywn be a human paladin who turns himself beck to his ancestors stone form in order to purge the enemies of humanity in a more efficient fashion.
Metal. Vrykul were made of metal.

Wait, the Shrooms were yet another Old God, too? Ffs, Blizz.

>there's a letter in WOW somewhere where he says to another Paladin that Arthas is shaping up pretty good, but he's too single minded and talks about how he went and tracked down a bunch of wolves and skinned them to make furs for a woman who lost her arm to them or something.
Arthas sounds like typical PC that got a quest of killing wolves as revenge for her losing an arm.

Refer to Looks like the Summoned Old God from Outland that Arakkoa tried to bring until Gul'dan blasted them so hard only spirits remained is canon.
>The Sethekk are a faction of the arakkoa who believe themselves to be the true and most loyal followers of the master of all arakkoa. The nature of this master is unknown to outsiders; the arakkoa do not speak of him except to say that his mysteries are for the feathered people alone.
wow.gamepedia.com/Summoned_Old_God
>While physically Anzu was meager compared to his counterpart, Rukhmar, he possessed a great intellect. As opposed to Rukhmar loving the sun and sky, Anzu preferred the cool of the shade and the peace of the twilight hours where he could be alone in quiet contemplation. He would converse with the "gods of the abyss", and he would find them dull, witless creatures.

iirc their origin never got explained at all. Just that they were slowly encroaching on all of the shorelines

wow.gamepedia.com/Amorphic_Cognitor
wow.gamepedia.com/Quest:Assault_on_Lost_Veil_Anzu
>This quest functions a bit differently than the others. While in the quest area, players are debuffed with "Amorphic Cogitator: Killing enemies may cause your strange companion to evolve." After killing and looting a creature, make sure to right-click it again to consume it. As evolution progresses, players will deal substantially more damage to creatures, and eventually the companion will evolve into a spore walker, granting the player a few abilities to nigh-instantly complete the quest.

I don't see how any of that points to the Zangar Encroachment being Old God related. If anything, everything showed it to be Primal related.

Where the fuck did the Pale come from, anyways? They were taught Void magic by Cho'gall, so they aren't void-warped orcs.

wow.gamepedia.com/Podling
>While fungi are not actually a type of plant (despite common misconception), the podlings of Shadowmoon Valley can be seen dancing around an image of a sporeling, projected by Leaf-Reader Kurri, hinting at some sort of connection. Kurri exclaims, Mushroom show future. Believe! hinting that podlings may have become sporelings, likely due to being infected by the Zangar encroachment (seemingly despite their apparent allergy to spores). This seems to be supported by Blizzard's statement that the sporelings were not always mushroom creatures.
>The Sporeggar were not always made of mushroom.
wow.gamepedia.com/Gloomshade_Spore
>"Rumor has it podlings are extremely allergic to these spores."
wow.gamepedia.com/Zangar_encroachment
>The Zangar encroachment[1] or Zangar fungal encroachment[2] is the name given to the various fungal swamps found across the shores of Draenor, caused by the Zangar Sea seeking to overtake the land by releasing thousands of spores and slowly growing inland over time.
>Similar to the plant-based Primals, the Zangar encroachment has the ability to infest land-dweling creatures with spores, turning them into mindless fungal slaves, as can be seen in the Crimson Fen. In southern Spires of Arak, the land is being overtaken by the mushrooms that grow underwater, and as a result, strange fungal creatures are sprouting up in the area.
>wow.gamepedia.com/Bulbapore Fungal Giant
Primals are plant related. Zangar is fungi.

Cho'gall taught them how to use Void magic, but they could already be corrupted by it.
As for their origins, from: wow.gamepedia.com/Pale_orc
>When young orc shaman from around the world come of age, they make a pilgrimage to the Throne of Elements to seek the blessings of the elemental spirits. The entire journey is filled with risk, but the ceremony itself is the most dangerous time of an orc's life. It's not clear what happens to those who are not strong enough and succumb to terrible visions and unearthly whispers during what should be the triumph of their young life. Those orcs who fall to the otherworldly voices flee their clan and become the Pale, withered remains of their former selves, hiding from the light and babbling incoherently in dark caves. Are they truly insane, or have they actually made contact with a malevolent force? The answers may lie in the twisting caverns beneath Nagrand, where some of the largest colonies of Pale linger and speak cryptic warnings.
wow.gamepedia.com/Beasts_of_the_Savage_Lands
>The pale orcs draw on the power of the naaru K'ure and Cho'gall says that they are the key to subjugating him. Cho'gall, referred to as "the master", has taught the Pale how to use the Void and through it enslave elementals. After siphoning K'ure's power, Cho'gall led the pale orcs to attack the ogre capital, Highmaul.
wow.gamepedia.com/Quest:The_Sleeper_Has_Awakened
>Cho'gall says: Do you feel the power they're drawing on? (It's the naaru in Nagrand!)

just make flesh mogu lol

>Truly, Titans had really dark period while ordering this world, akin to when God created Australia.
until proven otherwise, I'm going to assume that the titans do that to all non-worldsouled planets because they're pissed off about wasting their time

I support this notion.

>tfw no dk zombie zoo
Hero spell is drawing a card from the grave

>muh peas

Fuck off faggot.

I suppose we can assume that worlds K'aresh (Ethereal's original homeworld, before Dimensius arrived there), Argus (Eredar), and some of the worlds destroyed by Legion, including Centralis (where Gorelix used Maw of the Damned to wipe out all life on it) or homeworld of Aldrachi, were not ordered by Titans.

To ham in the whole "The Nightmare is trying to corrupt the Taurenpeople's heart/soul. Which is represented by Thunderbluff."

because Elerethe hates the fuck out of the tauren because she thinks Hamuul Runetotem had her murdered

>Thalyssra wants me to give her plans to the other elven leaders
>go to Tyrande and Vereesa
>my feet hurt
>fuck the Horde
>the Nightfallen are stupid
>I don't want to see you ever again
>I wish I has at home riding Malf's cock

>go to Liadrin
>good plan, my forces are ready as soon as you give the order
the Alliance was a mistake

most likely. Or they managed to progress beyond Breaker/Primal mode with superior magic, which orcs didn't really have

Being undead is apparently pretty unpleasant. Like constant unending pain kinds of unpleasant. It's why so many of the free willed undead go evil.

Vereesa is a huge bitch. Tyrande is an epic tier bitch, literally the worst character in the entire franchise. I hate players that choose belf but Lor'themar and Lady Liadrin are based.

Lor'themar is the Warchief the Horde needs, but not the one it deserves

I completely agree, though I would hate how smug the faggy belf players would be

I used to hate Belfs too until I actually played one. The player base may sucks but their lore and aesthetics are cool as hell.

>Tyrande is an epic tier bitch, literally the worst character in the entire franchise.

She's just pissed off at how she doesn't get to ride around on a giant tiger shooting fools with arrows and dropping stars on people any more.

Tyrande used to be cool.

She's the living embodiment of the Peter principle. She's a great warrior but a terrible politician.

Which Peter is that named after? The only ruler named Peter I can think of is Peter the Great and I thought the attempt as Westernisation was what he was famed for.

I have a female belf mage. I'm not a big fan of the aesthetics. The male belf posture is so feminine that I can't possibly fathom why someone would choose to play one. Female belfs have a decent ass though.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle

The way their ears bounce as they walk cracks me up. But I was referring more to their architecture and soundtrack

>en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle

Thanks user, was interesting.

Yeah I meant I'm not a big fan of the architecture or lore. The model for the female belf is good

>Be Tyrande
>Lowly initiate at local moon temple
>Have cute hippie boyfriend and his twin who's orbiting you so hard you can feel the beta radiate from him
>Suddenly the end of the world happens
>Demons fall from the sky and come crawling from the capitol and kill everyone
>Manage to avert apocalypse, basically all nobility has either been killed, vanished or seceded, leaving a power vacuum
>Become promoted to literal head of a theocratic military regime for the past 10'000 years
>Keep Sentinels alive and relatively well, establish good connections with other natives from northern Kalimdor
>Regularly fuck Satyrs up the ass
>Suddenly green chimps and pink shits come deforesting your territory
>Suddenly suddenly demons - Again!
>Wake up hippie husbando
>Become utterly useless in the process
>Spend the next decade or so being HUSHed and standing around on a huge tree in the middle of the ocean because why the fuck stay in your ancient homeland, right?

Somebody, somewhere, is responsible for this and I want to know who messed up my troll-elf amazon waifu.

That's the stupendous irony of it. They're somehow managing to portray her as a brainless Leeroy Jenkins AND a useless housewife at the same time.

Honestly, while Tyrande was a bit brash in WC3, most of her decisions had good outcomes. Plus, she was willing to sacrifice herself to save a bunch of blood elves she barely knew (even if she survived), why do we never see that kind of strength of character anymore?

Because thatpuffer of puredarkness forcefully holding your soul and body together eats good emotions like a freakin mindflayer brains.
Every undead goes cynical, cold and macabre because of this. Every undead lacks the warmth and joy of life to the most fundamental level.

Woe is those who have been risen by the dark. Because their resurrection begets only suffering.

Reminds me: in outland you can see the Arakkoa trying to summon an old god. Hinting at their presence, there. Along with titan artifacts in Ashran...