Pathfinder General /pfg/

two internet-tough-guys who go on and on about how they're even better at killing people bare-handed than any martial could ever hope to be, one who immediately starts begging (not asking, begging) how nonbinary any new character might be - do we fucking care its a fucking dire bear - two of us who take their turns seriously and a charisma-whore whose only charisma is a number on the character sheet.

No. ToB did it and it was just fine.

>Throw in some barbarian hordes, and let me for once dive into a hell that isn't slowass words.

>mfw every time we get an epic confrontation the resident Diplomancer Social Combats his way through the horde
>mfw we never get to spend a session fighting a fuckhuge force, like the lone party protecting a town against an Orc raiding party or getting thrust into a Musou-esque battlefield where we fight up to enemy Officers
>mfw one side is always raw mindless evil or we're forced into the impartial third side
>mfw I just want to be a national hero fighting for the glory of our kingdom

IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK? SOMETIMES I WANT TO PLAY A TRUE BELIEVER THAT DOESN'T GET TANGLED UP IN "THE FOG OF WAR" WHY IS THAT SO DIFFICULT?

Well first, style feats stop when you're not in battle don't they?

Stances though, it REALLY depends on the stance itself and/or how its fluffed. For example, stances might be more or less on the level of xianxia breathing techniques or the way you cycle the energy inside you or the like; shit that you have to learn to do in your sleep lest you'll never be able to even use it in battle. With those it can even be implied that you *KNOW* the level 8 stance, theoretically, but in practice you're nowhere near even remotely close to being able to make time flow like that in laboratory conditions, let alone when you're knee deep in undead. You'll just have to get stronger first and you'll get there eventually.

But some of those things put you on fucking fire. Some of them haste you - that can't be fucking healthy - and some of them just, say, make you, what, ignore darkness penalties when you aim your bow?

So it's partially case-by-case (some are movement or a sense, after all) but edging towards "probably okay for most of them", though nothing says it won't ever look silly....

Most of the early-level ones are fine; Running Hunter's Stance can be fluffed as your character acquiring a loping, bow-legged gait that hints at explosive speed when you need it, or Scarlet Einhander is... Well, you're just damn suave.

>Playing a neutral Warder
>There's also a CG Bard
>And a Paladin
>The Bard is your average "roguish charmer" character
>My Warder is a man of actions, not words
>And the Paladin is a Paladin
>Party is tasked with retrieving an exiled court mage's spellbook from the duke's archives (he was supposedly framed, noble intrigue blah blah blah)
>The door to the archives is watched by a single sleepy guard
>Bard could easily sneak past by climbing through the window
>I could just Night Falls the guard's ass and leave him tied up in a corner
>The Paladin refuses, walks up to the guard and loudly demands passage in the name of his god
>Guard tells him to fuck off or he'll call for backup
>Paladin insists we be let inside
>Guard yells for help
>I'm about to toss this motherfucker out the window
>Paladin stops me, saying he will negotiate entry and that the guard does not deserve to be hurt for doing his job
>Boy I'm about to shove my fucking foot so far up your ass you'll get to be face to face w--
>12 guards flood into the room
>Bard and I enter stance and roll initiative
>Paladin refuses to participate
>Paladin uses a counter on Bard's first attack
>We end up getting scooped up and thrown in jail for trespassing
>This was basically the whole Sunday session
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

But then you get some really obnoxious ones that you *should* release:
>The wind whips around you as you move
through the alchemist's shelves of fragile vials

>Aura of Misfortune or Oathbreaker Aura
You're a damned jinx in a decent radius. What an asshole.

>Sand-Bearer's Swiftness
You're like older editions of maxed out Wired Reflexes; in fact you're SUCH a twitchy fuck that *everything* has a 20% miss-chance against you, that's how frameskip-fuckery you are

>Obsidian reflection stance
You asshole

>Infinity Mirror Stance
MIRROR IMAGES. YOU AND MIRROR IMAGES. ALL DAY. MIRROR IMAGES. YOU GO OVER THERE AND FUCK THEM, WE'LL STAY HERE AND MIRROR IMAGES.

>Well first, style feats stop when you're not in battle don't they?
Not that guy but
Shit god dammit
Fuck
I forgot about this

I was going to go Fool's Errand Sensei for flexible Advanced Study shenanigans
Aargh damn what do I do now?

The paladin is a hostile. Consider him as such from now on, he was an enemy all along.

... full-attack accordingly.

You should have bailed out the moment that baboon opened his mouth.

>This is the shit that gets people to hate Paladins
>Yet for some reason JJ thinks this is just how the class should ALWAYS BE and that the stick up so many players asses is an /integral class feature/
>Paladin of Freedom never. A real Paladin of NG never.
>I will never play a CG Chosen One who starts out getting guilted by his mentor familiar until he realizes that he genuinely likes doing good, slowly shifting to NG as the game progresses

Fuck this game

just to specify; him being an idiot was just something paladins need to learn not to do from their partymembers; getting that stick out their ass is everybody's job. that much is fine.

It got dangerously iffy when he refused to participate despite having directly brought combat down upon you.

But when he turned on the party in battle, despite having been quite clearly in the wrong and the source of the violence? That, then and there, crossed the line. Whether or not he's got his paladin powers, he's fallen as a partymember.

Be very, very careful depending on your class: it might be a highly lawful act to execute him, so make sure you're not in danger of losing abilities if you were to change up from that!

>Scarlet Majesty Stance
>The fearsome glory of a master disciple of the Scarlet Throne discipline causes him to appear as nothing less than a god of war incarnated in flesh and steel.

This is probably the coolest late-game stance you could be in for non-combat; you're just so cool and collected that you radiate this tangible aura of absolute martial perfection. On one hand, this means nobody would ever imagine to hit you. On the other hand, people might be a bit concerned being in your Kill Zone.

In fact, as I read through them again I'm noticing *all* of the Scarlet Throne stances are pretty functional in your day-to-day humdrum non-combat life, at worst they just make you look a bit on the posh side.

Well, there is a Grey Paladin.

I said a REAL Paladin, user.

And Asgard paladins, and Vree paladins, and The Silence paladins, and Maian paladins, and Sectoid paladins...

What's your point?

>tfw level 15 coming up in January and I'll have to pick between Scarlet Majesty Stance, Iron Hide Stance or Lesson VI
It is both the greatest blessing and the greatest curse

Just worship kurgess. Only real paladins

Kurgess, Apsu, Shizuru and Shelyn are the only ones deserving of proper Paladins.

Okay fine, maybe Iomedae and Abadar, but the rest can make do with martial-focused Clerics.

What about Erastil?

If this is for HV, you're good. I'll post something to the rules later, but feel free to take a Combat Trait "Intuitive Style", "Cunning Style," or "Confident Style" to change initiation modifier and initiator class features to Wis, Int, or Cha respectively. There will also be Intuitive Magic, Cunning Magic, and Confident Magic that will do the same for Spheres magic.

Might get rid of the intuitive because Muh Powergamers, but I trust people not to minmax excessively (and, frankly, will be choosing a group of mostly peers, so off you're an outlier in the optimization scale, you're less likely to be chosen).

Erastil frankly doesn't make a lick of sense for having Paladins; Clerics are one thing, Warpriests are another, but anointed knights sent forth to annihilate evil wherever it may be? That just doesn't feel like Erastil's thing - he's defensive and inward-focused, hardly proactive.

Same reason you shouldn't see Paladins of Cayden Cailean or Desna, those types just don't feel like they'd get Lawful Good exemplars of their faith.

Playing a Warder for the first time soon.
Should I look into getting DR or would that be overkill? I don't yet fully grasp just how good Warder is at defending itself. I'm gonna have damn good health, but not so great AC. Counters for days, though.
I'm hoping to be a slightly less ridiculous version of Guts at higher levels, taking damage that would destroy a building, but still chugging along. I want to be able to single-handedly hold a bridge or other chokepoint against 30+ creatures before the level 20 capstone. That kinda stuff.
I think Warder might be able to do those things as it is, but I'm really not sure.

Somebody please, I am dying for (you)s and somebody who knows their feat taxes

>but feel free to take a Combat Trait "Intuitive Style", "Cunning Style," or "Confident Style"

>mfw I can make Wisdom as my modifier without taking an archetype that doesn't make a lick of sense for the character concept

Oh my god, thank you! Now I just need to figure if ole Gregor's more of the wise type, or the sheer force of presence type... And after crunching a quick pair of numbers, I found out if I took a 16 Charisma than this character accounting for his current attribute lineup at least) would have 16.5 Appearance. Huh, I wasn't expecting this guy to be that attractive, though it *probably* means he's less "yo I wanna bang that" and more "Jesus Christ look at that guy."

>but not so great AC.

>The class that gets Shield AC, Aegis AC, heavy armor AC and encouragement to take stances that increase AC by as much as +5 a pop
>Not so great AC

Nigga what?

Anyway, to answer your question; DR isn't technically necessary, but it will just further go to make your character completely invulnerable to anyone and anything which is what it sounds like you want! You're tougher than you look, just remember that, and Defensive Focus is going to be so frickin' useful you'll want to use it even when you don't need to replenish Strikes.

>Paladins must always be LG no matter what
>Paladins of Freedom never existed in 3.5e

This shit is why I mercilessly berate JJ. Paladins are about being good, why theshit are they automatically always and forever lawful too? Literally all this does is hold mechanics hostage when the other end of the spectrum gets to prance about on either end of the Law/Chaos axis. I just want my charismatic holy warriors to have some variety, god damn.

>>Not so great AC
I'm not going for defensive stances, as I'm going to focus on Eternal Guardian. In fact, the stance I'll be in the longest actively makes me take more damage per turn!
I'm also not going to bother with heavy armor until much later because I like being able to move and climb stairs.
This leaves me with something like... 5 or 6 AC under the "20+level" goal marker for most of the game.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't benefit from your own Aegis, do you? Is there errata or something?

Anyway, thanks for your thoughts! I'll see about getting DR. There's a nice feat in the Medic document that caught my eye, although it wants me to use specific stances...

HV? I dont follow.

Oh, my bad. There's a dude applying to the /pfg/ Hells Vengeance game with a fairly similar character to what you posted, from what I understand.

So I've crunched the numbers on Svana, and here's her DPR
Regular Attack (Sneak Attack): Average 25 damage (If Power Attack it becomes 30)
Nova Attack (Rage, Elemental Strike, Power Attack, Ki point spent, Sneak Attack): Average 64.5
Rage Attack: Average 29 (If Power Attack it becomes 34)
Is it just me or are these really low?

What level are these numbers for?

At what level?

3 I assume.

The most common enemy we will fight in the first two books has 7-12 HP.

RotJR, level 3 gestalt
The GM won't change this, despite us starting at a higher level and being gestalt? If so, why is everyone else optimizing so hard?

>why is everyone else optimizing so hard?
Better optimize hard than be left in the dust.

You barely have to optimize in 1pp level 1 non gestalt to hit that kind of damage.

At level 3, I only think you could get remotely close to that with AM BARBARIAN Orcish Alchemist stuff.

Because people like that Omza guy have small dicks IRL

>The GM won't change this, despite us starting at a higher level and being gestalt? If so, why is everyone else optimizing so hard?
Because people are making an assload of assumptions about the game.

Which characters do you think seem to realize the campaign is not going to be hard, and built around narrative power over offensive?

Which seem the most reasonable to you, is what I guess I'm saying.

Nigga what? Dealing 7-12 damage is pretty easy at level 1.

16 str
power attack
greatsword
full bab
+3 2d6+7 19-20/x2
That's an average of 14 on hit. Are you retarted?

I meant 64 damage, like the character posted.
That guy only hits for around 20ish damage a pop to a max of like 60ish if he uses all of his spell points. I don't know why everyone is still freaking over that.

I guess so, I just hope I don't drag the party down
I didn't realize until she was already done, but she isn't all that good at combat. Her skills are good though and she's fun .
Fair enough
That's true, the GM doesn't really say much more than needed does he?
She has +8 to hit with her fauchard and +2 with her gore, while raging these become +10 and +4,so at least I've got that.Also 18-20 crits on the fauchard and reach. And jumping skill
That 64 is if I use my Elemental Strike (3/day), spend a ki point (3 total), qualify for Sneak Attack, all my attacks hit and I'm raging AND I'm power attacking.

I'm reading a guide on Warders and it says that my INT and CON should be higher than my STR.
This seems... incorrect.
Am I dumb or..?

>Because people are making an assload of assumptions about the game.
Yeah, like it ever happening for example.

The guide is dumb, the ideal Warder is 18 STR, 12-14 CON and 16 INT.

Str>int (wis if OD) > con > dex > wis (int if OD) > cha

Right now I'm looking at 18 STR, 18 CON and 16 INT and it feels pretty good. Should I swap INT and CON? I kind of want to have the capacity to eat shit from 4 CR-appropriate creatures on my own and keep going.

...

What's your Dex?

>18 con
Did you roll for stats? you don't need more than a 14 in con.

18 str, 12 dex, 14 con, 16 int 12 wis, 7 cha should be your minimum post racial stats on a PB, maybe 10 wis and 8 cha if you care about that.

I have 80 horse archers and a party of 6 other PCs under my character's command. We are a raiding party that are going to cut a path of rapine and pillage across those foolish enough to participate in agriculture. If I am successful I will be given more men by the Khan to expand my raiding.

I need to get enough slaves and loot to increase my standing in the tribe and finally end this nonsense of "trading" the current Khan has regarding a city-state on our nomadic loop. We should instead start hitting every single trading caravan that tries to enter of leave the city and lure out their army onto the steppes where we can run circles around them with our horse archers. I also have some undead rats that are to be coated in anthrax endospores and sent into the city's grain supplies. The Great Serpent Set will receive many sacrifices when I have finished with this city.

Which 6th level spell casting classes can function as a tanky frontliner?
My friend wants to recruit me to a level 8 group because they are apparently in need of a meat shield after their martial class bailed.

10.

>Did you roll for stats?
No, it's 25 PB. I'm playing a lizardfolk and dumped CHA. The +1 at 4th level brings me up to the double 18s.
I don't really feel super comfortable dropping my CON to 14 since I want to be meatshield man, but I suppose I have a lot to gain from spreading my stats around, huh?

Last Sunday my players finish the first part of Carrion Crown AP. I say it was a great success for everyone, they got really into the story and I manage to change and adapted what I didn't like or need adjustments pretty easy. Feel like I will keep running APs.

Should a Psyarm warsoul gifted blade look into psycrystal affinity/containment and power reserve? I'm not sure what I'd do with my focus besides maybe ghost step/cleave space.

Skald for sure
I'd go druid tho

Damn skald is a good suggestion.
They did lose their barbarian, but I don't really like the idea of forcing your new player to play something similar. Now I can just turn all of them into barbarians.

To expand on the spoiler in
If you still want to be a 6th caster, Hunter is a bretty gud choice. The animal companion it gets is pretty ballin', and a tiger or something would absolutely wreck if you're smart about it.

Yeah, you'd want to drop con by 2 and go with a stat line like this:

18 str, 12 dex, 16 con, 16 int, 12 wis, 7 cha
with the level 4 bonus going to str.

You have heavy armor, a d12, good fort, and counters, aegis and defensive focus. You don't need a that high con. If it we're meI'd maybe drop con even farther to a post racial 14 to get str to a 19 post racial, netting a 20 at level 4.

>If so, why is everyone else optimizing so hard?
>implying there's anything even *close* to hard optimization here.

>Going over the Ninja class to see when Svana gets Improved Uncanny Dodge
>See this
>Light Steps (Ex):At 6th level, a ninja learns to move while barely touching the surface underneath her. As a full-round action, she can move up to twice her speed, ignoring difficult terrain. While moving in this way, any surface will support her, no matter how much she weighs. This allows her to move across water, lava, or even the thinnest tree branches. She must end her move on a surface that can support her normally. She cannot move across air in this way, nor can she walk up walls or other vertical surfaces. When moving in this way, she does not take damage from surfaces or hazards that react to being touched, such as lava or caltrops, nor does she need to make Acrobatics checks to avoid falling on slippery or rough surfaces. Finally, when using light steps, the ninja ignores any mechanical traps that use a location-based trigger.
>twice her speed across any surface
Svana gets a speed of 80 at level 8, and can increase that to 100 for a ki point.
Pretty sure I saw a bunch of builds dealing like twice her damage

Those builds are boobs, Svana is fine and any optimization she has goes towards an element of her character that's more thematic than gamebreaking (Sanic fast speeds just mean she can run to a "family" member's aid that much sooner, or can navigate Sandpoint in no time flat.)

I like the flavor of the Sworn Protector archetype for Warder, and getting a bonus to-hit and damage seems nice on paper, but... Is it really worth it?
How often is Shared Counter or Defensive Intercept really going to be useful? Is it worth it to trade a bonus feat for the situational to-hit and damage bonus? I've got some damn good feats lined up that could fill that bonus feat slot right up.
What do you guys think? Anyone have direct experience with the archetype?

Which ones? Because even the sphere blaster people complained about is only capable of like 60ish-70ish damage if going nova.

Does armor check penalty apply to skill checks made as part of PoW maneuvers?
If so, how do I go about wearing heavy armor but minimizing my penalty for Climb?

Erastilean Paladins are hunters, who go out into the wilds to thin out the wicked and dangerous to protect the villages and frontiers.

They protect the homebodies by going out and hunting evil that threatens their homes and families. Like magical holy Game/Predator managers/extermunators

They are essentially a cross between Monster Hunter and the Texas Rangers

>not including Based Dammerich

Anybody interested in the possibility of psionic or initiating beguilers? Apparently ertw is considering it and is looking for suggestions and ideas. Make your voice heard /pfg/:

paizo.com/threads/rzs2qmqe&page=14?Beguiler-conversion-for-Pathfinder#685

>initiating beguilers
OOOOOOOOOOH FUCK YES PLEASE

Mithral piecemeal Scale arms/legs with an agile plate torso. Take that trait to reduce ACP by one.

Boom, no ACP 9 armor, max dex of 7, 15% spell failure, all for 7420gp and a trait.

>NG
>LN
>Paladins

Svanas build is boobs too Don't forget her MAD JUMPS (29 feet straight up on a 10)
Really? I guess I'm dumb, I still feel like her regular damage is low though, even if her nova damage is good.
I don't know what a beguiler is but that picture is awesome

JJ pls go

Don't think I'll get to use piecemeal armor

Can you initiate a martial strike against a 5 foot cube of air?
This is important.

Warder, fighter and a level 1 piercing thunder stance would lower acp as well.

>Tfw your gm keeps throwing enemies/npcs that are suicidally overconfident
>No matter how the odds are stacked against them it's "we've dealt with worse" or just still mindlessly attacking after everyone but them and their held dead buddy is left
>retreat or surrender is never an option for them
>Can't ever seen to be able to reason with them,even with a fucking +25 or +30 with one of the party members
>Usually it's over quick and we're left with nothing but corpses that our necromancer raises because it would be a waste not to at this point
>The undead out number the party 2:1

I mean it's not supposed to be that set of a campaign but when all your enemies are Skyrim bandits level of tactically retarded, it gets old sometimes.

My current character hasn't participated in any wars, but a previous character of mine was a lowborn human Archer (Ranger) who performed exemplary service on the battlefield, and was Knighted for his prowess and service to his liegelord, keeping down enough suppressive fire to help cover the withdrawal, and managing to get out of it alive.

Ranger/Paladin gestalt (favored enemies being magical beasts and evil outsiders), with a warhorse as my animal companion/mount. He was my first Archery-focused character.

I should bring him back in another campaign.

Are you illiterate? It isn't JJ's opinion, it's literally in the core rulebook.

What are some relatively low cost ways to get a +1 or +2 to hit with a weapon to overcome the -2 you get from Blackened at level 10?

>the core rulebook must never be overwritten by a splat!
t. paizodrone

Then why do Shelyn, Abadar, and Kurgess have Paladin Oaths?

So they're perfect is you're a samurai :^)

If you think that's bad, you should try having suicidally overconfident players. We're trying to deal with a hundun (CR 21) and a hobgoblin possessed as a quasi-avatar thing of Pazuzu (CR ???) at level 14 with a CR adjust of -2 because we're playing as monstrous races.

Masterwork?

>there's literally nothing that says the god a Paladin worships must be LG

They must be LG, not their god.

>suicidally overconfident
Not that guy but all my friends are such pussies that this is literally the defining characteristic of my new character